…because he’s in his hometown of Edison, NJ. Get it? EDISON IS THE HOME OF A LOT OF INDIAN IMMIGRANTS! And they have overrun the township, what with their red dots, and zany, octopus-like deities and of course, their cows! Indians worship cows! And Edison is full of Indians! So there are cows in Edison, and the cows take dumps, and this unfunny columnist named Joel Stein really stepped in it, because the nasty brown shit (and by nasty brown shit, I mean “Indian”) is everywhere! The brown shit is unavoidable! ISN’T THAT HILARIOUS? WHY AREN’T YOU LAUGHING? Don’t you get it? That paragraph is humorous! I have bludgeoned you about the head with my clever humor! And if you don’t “get” it, you are excessively thin-skinned, like…like…an eggshell plaintiff!
What’s that you say, Desis? You weren’t impressed with Stein’s comedic stylings? Why…if you’re outraged, then that’s GREAT because it means Stein’s humor is EDGY. That’s what great comics do! They challenge you! They inspire your eyebrows to raise up like they’re furry, arched extras in a Petey Pablo video!
You didn’t think it was funny, at all? Well, chin up, dear Mutineers. Neither did I.
And that’s because, it wasn’t.
When I first ventured online today, I had a dozen tweets, emails and FB messages waiting for me. They all contained the same link to TIME magazine, a publication I adored as a child. My interest? Piqued. I started to read.
Let me tell you what I liked about the essay which all of you wanted me to read, first: the title. I loved the B-52s in high school and I love lifting blog titles from song titles. Clearly, Stein was referencing “Private Idaho“, which was a bit before my time (released: 1980) and to my INDIAN ears, a bit annoying. I preferred a single from a full decade later– “Deadbeat Club“. I used to put it on a lot of my mix tapes. Sigh.
Now that we got THAT out of the way, let me tell you what I disliked about Stein’s “meditation” on immigration. See what I did there? Huh? Huh? INDIAN STUFF, AGAIN!
Every. Thing. Else.
Let’s get started, shall we? But first, to really do Mr. Stein justice, I’m going to light some incense, play a “Jai Ho” remix, and nosh on some curry– but daintily! I don’t want to stain my exotic silk costume, which I bought in…of all places…Edison. What are the odds, right? Oh, wait…according to TIME magazine, the odds are very good that my Indian garb is from Edison. The whole place is infested with Patels. Did I mention there’s a dot on my forehead? I’m a dothead! Wheee! Oh, but I am getting ahead of myself (I am waggling my head as I type that. If you’re reading this, switch to an “Apu” voice, would you? Thanks, you’re a doll. I mean, you’re an Aishwarya!)
I am very much in favor of immigration everywhere in the U.S. except Edison, N.J. The mostly white suburban town I left when I graduated from high school in 1989 — the town that was called Menlo Park when Thomas Alva Edison set up shop there and was later renamed in his honor — has become home to one of the biggest Indian communities in the U.S., as familiar to people in India as how to instruct stupid Americans to reboot their Internet routers.
HAHAHA! Stein just called Americans “stupid”. Doing this protects him from any accusations of racism or bias, because he made fun of himself! And he said he was pro-immigration, so he’s nice, too. See how that works? What are you saying? It DIDN’T work? Oh.
Hmmm.
Maybe that’s because it was made by an American! Ooooh, BURN! Like a VINDALOO! And you can’t get mad at me, because I’m an American, too! Huzzah for humor insurance!> My town is totally unfamiliar to me. The Pizza Hut where my busboy friends stole pies for our drunken parties is now an Indian sweets shop with a completely inappropriate roof. The A&P I shoplifted from is now an Indian grocery. The multiplex where we snuck into R-rated movies now shows only Bollywood films and serves samosas. The Italian restaurant that my friends stole cash from as waiters is now Moghul, one of the most famous Indian restaurants in the country. There is an entire generation of white children in Edison who have nowhere to learn crime.
Aww, more self-deprecation! It almost makes you miss the utterly bizarre reference to the mithai place’s “inappropriate roof”. How, may I ask, is a roof ever inappropriate? Did it forget to wear its knickers? Does it have the F-bomb painted on it? Better yet, is the roof fornicating with something? Perhaps a chimney? Oh, yeah…you’re a nasty roof, aren’t you? You’re bad. You need to be punished.
Or wait– did Stein mean inappropriate like that inebriated White parent who showed up to my conservative private school and slurred about what he’d like to do to all of us young girls in our pleated skirts? If so, that’s a TERRIBLE roof. A dangerous one, even. Also, you can’t get mad at me for sharing that anecdote which makes Whites look bad, because I was in it. Or it was funny. Or something. What? “Humor” is Stein’s excuse. He’s American, possibly Jewish, and he finds himself far too clever– just like me! STOP BEING THIN-SKINNED, EGGSHELL PLAINTIFF.
I called James W. Hughes, policy-school dean at Rutgers University, who explained that Lyndon Johnson’s 1965 immigration law raised immigration caps for non-European countries. LBJ apparently had some weird relationship with Asians in which he liked both inviting them over and going over to Asia to kill them.
I’ll be damned. This hack was actually funny for a change. I’m going to agree with my colleague Amardeep and declare that this bit works. If only the ENTIRE ARTICLE worked as well. Also? EDISON IS FULL OF DOT-HEADED NERDS WHO WORSHIP PENISES. What? I was worried you’d forget. You suffered through that Stein piece, you’re probably used to being bludgeoned with such sentiments every 30 seconds. I’m just trying to be considerate, y’all. Why do you have to be so Indian about everything? Why can’t you be dishonest and White, and not change everything, and not take over the businesses where I learned to be a petty thief and…and…stuff? NOTHING SHOULD EVER CHANGE, DAMNIT. IT’S JOEL STEIN’S WORLD AND WE’RE ALL JUST LIVING IN IT.
After the law passed, when I was a kid, a few engineers and doctors from Gujarat moved to Edison because of its proximity to AT&T, good schools and reasonably priced, if slightly deteriorating, post-WW II housing. For a while, we assumed all Indians were geniuses. Then, in the 1980s, the doctors and engineers brought over their merchant cousins, and we were no longer so sure about the genius thing. In the 1990s, the not-as-brilliant merchants brought their even-less-bright cousins, and we started to understand why India is so damn poor.
Sorry, Mutineers– I’m going to have to ask you to stop reading this blog and look away for a moment. I love you too much to let you watch what happens next. Tearing someone a new arsehole is a brutal, violent act and you shouldn’t have to see that. Now go. Study some maths while I take care of this, nah? Acha, beta.
Removes hoop earrings
Which are 22K
Smears vaseline on face
Gets to stompin’ in stiletto heels
“YEAH, you accidentally racist, hypocritical JERK! You pee sitting DOWN in MY HOUSE! And it IS my house! I’m Indian! THAT’S WHAT WE DO, MF! WE BUY HOUSES! WITH RESPONSIBLE MORTGAGES! WHICH WE PAY OFF EARLY! BIATCH!”
Oh, sorry, little ones. Didn’t know you were already back from mastering “Nonlinear Dynamics and Chaos”. Drink some Bornevita, kozhandai. What’s that? You want Horlicks, instead? Why are you laughing? Because it sounds like “whore-licks”? Really? Well, at least that’s funnier than the pap Stein wrote. Now nom this Parle-G and get out ma face. Mama’s got WORK to do! That and the next part is ugly. I know. AGAIN.
Eventually, there were enough Indians in Edison to change the culture. At which point my townsfolk started calling the new Edisonians “dot heads.” One kid I knew in high school drove down an Indian-dense street yelling for its residents to “go home to India.” In retrospect, I question just how good our schools were if “dot heads” was the best racist insult we could come up with for a group of people whose gods have multiple arms and an elephant nose.
Joel,
though I’ve pretended to give you an episiotomy in this post, I want to say that I actually don’t care enough to mind that you exist. I could have overlooked this entire fustercluck if you hadn’t composed the paragraph above.
Why? Why did you write that?
Do you think it’s funny when someone talks about negotiating a great deal and they exclaim, “I jewed them down to almost nothing!” If you do think that’s funny, you’re pathetic because you know what? I find “Jewed” offensive. And I constantly call it out, just like in high school, when I’d wish people “Happy Holidays” whenever I was out shopping with my Jewish best friend, who wilted a little inwardly at the absent-minded “Merry Christmas”‘ wished at two young girls who, truthfully, looked more like a Hindu and a Muslim than an Indian Christian and a Persian Jew.
I don’t like the term “Jewed” because it’s ugly. It trades in the worst stereotypes and assumptions about an entire group of people who don’t deserve to be disrespected and diminished by what is, at best, lazy phrasing and at worst, anti-Semitic poison, casually slipped in conversations like a roofie in our collective drink. Joel, I believe in the dignity of all people. I understand that words are powerful and that stereotypes are the preferred weapon of the uninformed and uncreative as well as the malicious and bigoted.
You “question” the quality of Edison’s schools because you think “Dot Head” was a mediocre epithet? Would “dotbusters” have been more suitable? Yeah, I know, wrong place. They slaughtered a “Dot Head” for the crime of being Indian over in Jersey City, not your precious, quondam white Edison.
I don’t give a shit.
The biggest problem I have with your inane, imbecilic piece is that it isn’t funny. Not even close to it.
I don’t think you are a racist. I truly don’t. But I do think that you don’t get it. That you fancy yourself to be far more “edgy” and “hilarious” than you actually are, because this…this TIME article is not funny. And this paragraph is exactly why I maintain such a position. You failed.
Isn’t all comedy offensive? Sure, a lot of it is. See: Chappelle show. I laughed four separate times during that consummately offensive video. Do you know what the difference between your “race com” and Dave’s is? Dave is funny. He is deft, artful, smart but most of all– he is Funny.
Your neighborhood racists’ inability to devise a better slur “for a group of people whose gods have multiple arms and an elephant nose” is neither funny, nor edgy. It’s disrespectful, ignorant and not even entirely accurate. What about a person with two arms and a prominent nose who lights a menorah? Because India has those, too. What thrilling invective should be hurled their way?
Unlike some of my friends in the 1980s, I liked a lot of things about the way my town changed: far better restaurants, friends dorky enough to play Dungeons & Dragons with me, restaurant owners who didn’t card us because all white people look old. But sometime after I left, the town became a maze of charmless Indian strip malls and housing developments. Whenever I go back, I feel what people in Arizona talk about: a sense of loss and anomie and disbelief that anyone can eat food that spicy.
This paragraph started off with so much promise; relatively speaking, that means you hadn’t stepped in shit up to your ankle. Then, you had to go there. Arizona, there. And no one even noticed your bizarre suggestion that “all white people look old”, because you had invoked the one state where your humor would play well.
So, the immigrants came and ruined everything, did they? With their “charmless” businesses which helped prop up Edison’s economy, even as they denied the township’s children opportunities to be junior thieves. I forgot to ask– what tribe are you a part of? You couldn’t possibly be the descendant of immigrants if you hold such exclusionary, retrograde views, so I’m assuming you are one of the only real Americans, because if you’re not an indigenous person, that would make you a giant, flaming hypocrite. And if you were an indigenous person and you held these views, well, I’d understand you a bit more but I’d still think you were a dick.
But enough about you, let’s talk about– you. Your piece, and specifically, those housing developments. Ugh. Who wants those. Better to have urban prairie, like Detroit or something. Also, you forgot to mention “curry”. Because all Indian houses smell like it, so surely these residential developments which you regret all exist under a puff of garam masala, yes? No? Head waggle, so? The whole reason the food is spicy is because of that curry cloud of powdered spice, wafting overhead, a reversal of the filth which orbits little Pig Pen’s feet.
You feel a “sense of loss” that your neighborhood isn’t a shrine to your memories of it? Join the damned club, accidental racist. The rest of us just accept that such evolution is a part of reality; we understand it, we don’t blame immigrants for it. And finally, what were you thinking, writing a column on Immigration and invoking “Arizona” within it, with your sympathies? Oh, right. Edgy.
Unlike previous waves of immigrants, who couldn’t fly home or Skype with relatives, Edison’s first Indian generation didn’t quickly assimilate (and give their kids Western names). But if you look at the current Facebook photos of students at my old high school, J.P. Stevens, which would be very creepy of you, you’ll see that, while the population seems at least half Indian, a lot of them look like the Italian Guidos I grew up with in the 1980s: gold chains, gelled hair, unbuttoned shirts. In fact, they are called Guindians. Their assimilation is so wonderfully American that if the Statue of Liberty could shed a tear, she would. Because of the amount of cologne they wear.
Okay, at this point, it’s 1am and I’m exhausted.
What the blood clot? Skype has been around for all of seven years. My parents arrived over thirty years before that. They didn’t have Skype but they did give their kids “Western” names because the “West” doesn’t have a monopoly on Christian nomenclature, you fucking fuck. And plenty of those immigrants who came in the late 60s DID assimilate, probably because they were 35 years ahead of Skype, but that’s irrelevant. You have TWO ethnic groups to insult now. The sad thing is, the whole “Guindian” phenomenon merits discussion and could spawn a whole other post, one which explores identity and emulation and NOT bad, racist attempts at wit.
And speaking of the “R”-bomb:
-despite your (apparently) being a member of a “minority” group
-just because you are not usually, actively racist
-even if it wasn’t your intention to sound so racist
-though you may have an Indian friend or three, who kissed your ass and boot-licked their way through some compliment of your…work…
IT WAS RACIST.
It was also ignorant, small-minded, cringe-inducing, embarrassing (for you) and classist. So please, in the future, just…desist.
I’ll let some of my beloved friends and readers school you as to how and why you stepped in it.
Erstwhile guest blogger (2006!) Maitri let Stein HAVE IT, in a missive to me. See?
Even if this were a simple observation on Joel Stein’s part of how his town has changed economically through the decades, he could have done it a bit differently. Case in point: “In retrospect, I question just how good our schools were if ‘dot heads’ was the best racist insult we could come up with for a group of people whose gods have multiple arms and an elephant nose.” Like these attributes of Hindu gods are insult-worthy. With this, Stein gave up the protection of self-deprecation and crossed that line. Why is it still so easy to do so?
Time Magazine ought to know better.
Said Brian, who was the FIRST of 26 of you to contact me about this:
To write an article in a publication such as TIME, that highlighted epithets (which the author himself thought weren’t creative or offensive enough) used to degrade children growing up in a country already feeling different is in bad taste.
Mimosa wrote:
Stein…starts to delineate how his town has fallen from a supposed “good old days” nostalgia, a place that was allegedly superior to the present. The associations made with Indians – their food, culture, and other ethnic practices – are framed as inferior to the ways of the gloried past. Racism is the belief that “race” itself determines human traits and capabilities, and that this quality is what pre-dates what is superior vs. inferior. By focusing on the way these “invaders” have deteriorated in the interim (strip malls filled with Indian grocery stores, movie theaters featuring only Bollywood films, gods and goddesses with their multiple arms and elephant noses), he takes a position of dominance, a position that there is only one narrative to be spun out of this hometown. Such a position is allied with the “raghead” comments stemming from the South Carolina GOP gubernatorial race, whereby GOP primary candidate Nikki Haley and President Obama were attacked for their supposed religious affiliations (nevermind that the rhetoric was completely flawed and ignorant).
But really, what bothers me about this piece, why it didn’t strike me as satire, is that it seems to assume that there really is a dominant narrative out there, i.e. that “white” culture is where it’s at. Assimilation is not an option, it’s a requirement for these rude new aliens – but of course, that assimilation is on the dominant narratives terms.
So…if any of your friends missed this hullabaloo in the Sepia orchard, just send them Mimosa’s thoughts. That way we deprive this fucker of page views. Our outrage has made this…uh…”story”…both the “Most Read” and “Most Emailed” links on TIME.com. Ugh. We are rewarding his stupidity.
Mihir buzzed this:
…so basically he is saying Indians are ok if they fit into his neat little white upper middle class template, and maybe stay under, say 20% of the population. In other words he’s ok with Oak Brook or perhaps Naperville but hates Devon Avenue. It’s unfortunate that he believed that Edison would forever be like 1989…the race/class-infused nostalgia just seems immature to me for a supposedly educated writer.
Of course he’s saying that. There are even Desis who say that. They just have the good manners and education to know that they are elitist douchebags and they keep that shit on lock. They don’t clutter up a once venerable magazine with their snobbery. Also? EDISON IS LIKE, FULL OF INDIANS! And you thought I’d forget…
Said Aditi, whose family, like mine, has subscribed to TIME for years:
Reading it made me feel defensive and frustrated at how mocking Indians has become such an easy target–the SNL skit a few months ago, Text ‘n’ Talk for PCS, Sanjeev the web designer in some insurance– without requiring anything to be actually funny. Just mock the accent, our immigrant ambitions and our gods….the Arizona reference was straight up Ridiculous.
And lest you think this is a bunch of minorities whining about getting their feelings hurt, read this, from Rachel Kipp, an editor in Philadelphia.
“If it’s satire, but nobody laughs, then it’s not satire.”
Maybe since Rachel isn’t Indian, Joel will value her words more! I know one thing– don’t ever change, Rachel. No, seriously, don’t. Because if you do, Joel Stein will write a bad column about it, for TIME.
My friend RR did an excellent job of conveying how many of us felt after reading this, via my FB profile:
I have to wonder, if a similar article was written about Latinos or African Americans if TIME would have the balls to publish it? If they did, wouldn’t all hell break lose? Wouldn’t this be something that NPR and everyone else would be talking about? Is it because Indians are too small a minority and too “passive ” to actually fight back? Some how I feel like the nerdy Indian kid in high school all over again.
Meanwhile, over on Twitter, AngryBrownGirl drew my attention to the next phase of this drama:
Did you guys check out Joel’s FB post? Apparently not expecting such a reaction? Give me a break!
It’s true; his Facebook page was updated with a status message which…wasn’t helpful. See for yourself:
Didn’t meant to insult Indians with my column this week. Also stupidly assumed their emails would follow that Gandhi non-violence thing.
Someone in the bunker thought that was so amusing, they felt sorry for Stein. I just gloated over the “stupid”, since his entire column was. Also? Edison. Indians. Lots of. Oy, I’m tired.
I’ll let Maitri fire off some parting shots for me, because she’s a hot geologist with a way with words and her ire isn’t just aimed at Stein– she’s gunning for some of you. Watch out now:
Yet, still, hitherto, even at this point, I can dismiss the whole article as noise. What really cooks me here is not Stein’s provincialism or even how easy it still is to use Indians as the butt of jokes. It’s the Indian-Americans, the ones who keep their heads down, “adjust” and don’t make waves, who will tell us not to be so sensitive and to shrug it off. “Let them say what they want. We should not internalize these things and let them bother us. Grow a sense of humor.” Because of their being doormats, it is easy for the Steins of the world to give ink to the Wholly Unnecessary. They make it so easy to do so. No more. I’m an American. The residents of Edison have been Americans for longer than Stein’s had a column. They don’t need this. Fuck you if you CAN take a “joke.”
Word. This born-American citizen is over and out. Let the wild rumpus begin.
Why is India poor and what is its poverty? Stein’s sentiment seems to be its because that’s all the bulk of its population is capable of
I don’t think Joel Stein’s column is racist, but I do think it just isn’t funny enough for people to give him the benefit of doubt. That’s the risk you take when you try to write humor about serious issues. He won’t be the first humorist to fail in that regard (I should know).
It was funny until that last bit — which made it unfunny. How about ” … and we started to understand why there was a line outside the astrologist’s shop.”
Anna: submit this to TIME.
How smart of Mr Stein to defend against reaction induced from his stereotype laden article, with another stereotype !!! So all Indians are supposed to be Gandhians and supposed to be supporting non-violence ??
I actually loved this little article. When you peel away the mediocre writing and teenage sarcasm, what you are left with is the desparation of someone unwilling to accept that he has lost control. Joel Stein looks at Edison and sees unwelcome change. Despite writing for Time, graduating from Stanford, and being a California Liberal Jew, he’s no different than any Xenophobe. It’s the same reason the Birthers hate Obama or “No Irish Need Apply” signs were all over Boston in the 19th century. It’s an age-old narrative.
Joel Stein is not regaling us with his rapier wit; he’s writing with his heart on his sleeve. He’s scared. He’s always been scared, except now at 40 y/o he’s got the balls and the venue to express himself. It’s not our fault you lost control, Joel.
Hello Mutineers,
When I first read Mr. Stein’s article, I was amused. His article was hilarious, and to me at least, very UNOFFENSIVE. It was witty, cute, and accurate. We all know exactly what he was talking about.
Here’s a question that I’d like to pose onto you. 1. Mr. Stein comments on how the Indian-owned businesses are not so attractive looking. I’ve been to Devon Street in Chicago, and I’ve been to Edison/Iselin. I think that I can relate to what he’s saying. The other communities, such as Chinese, Italians, Ashkenazi Jews, etc. – all have enhanced the landscape and architectural landscape of whatever city they live in. Indians don’t enhance the beauty of a town, from what I’ve seen. We do, however, decrease the crime, convert by gentrification very dangerous places to very safe ones (i.e. Queens and Jackson Heights), and yes, we make so much money, but we don’t enhance the land. We come here as RENTERS and not fully integrated property-owners.
So how would YOU politely address the fact that Indian-owned businesses are, at best, devoid of character and charm?
What kind of witty, sarcastic article would YOU write about?
I agree with Abhi.
I think Stein is as much talking about class issues within the Indian immigrant community as he is making a comment about the strangeness of a neighborhood’s transformation into a mini-India. He’s not lamenting the disappearance of white people from Iselin, he’s saying “wow, this is strange, but what was here before isn’t really worth mourning…”
Take a look at this passage again:
There are plenty of people within the Indian community (either established immigrants, or second gens/ABDs) who talk exactly like this about more recent immigrants. Let’s take a look in the mirror, shall we?
The offensive part is of course at the end — “and we started to understand why India is so damn poor.” No, India is poor for other reasons. It’s fair (to me, anyway) to make a joke about wanna be stylish desi men wearing silk shirts and too much hair-product/cologne. But this last part steps over the line. There is too much human suffering behind those four words (“India is so damn poor”) to think of joking about it.
The only thing funny related to Stein is that he has taught a class in humor writing at Princeton. The dude has been consistently unfunny and this article is a good example of his alleged humor. I bring all this up only to point that I don’t have much love for the man’s work. There are some problematic areas in this article, but the overall response here is a bit over-the-top. I don’t get the racist vibe, just weak writing and superficial observations. It’s not all that different from that desi woman Amardeep wrote about a while ago, who equated pole dancing classes and buying expensive grocery to being a modern Amrican woman.
A letter to Mr. Stein:
I always enjoy a good conversation about my town, ethnicity, and heritage. Consequently, your article in Time, “My Own Private Indiaâ€, was a must read. I am compelled to say, however, you give Edison’s Indian-American population much more credit than they deserve. A prime example – The Indian-Americans who teach people how to reboot their Internet routers are part of a totally separate phenomenon. It is commonly referred to as “Silicon Valleyâ€.
We will, however, plead guilty where appropriate. The young Edisonians indeed have nowhere to learn crime. We thought it would be wise to instead support the efforts of several top-rated educational institutions, i.e., John P. Stevens High School and The Wardlaw Hartridge School. Strange set of priorities, you say? Well, it must be the effects of worshipping gods with multiple arms and an elephant nose, right?
The over-consumption of spicy food has also led to some bizarre results. We quickly realized the need for superb medical care and strategically placed physicians in some of the metro area’s most prestigious hospitals. It doesn’t end there though. To ensure that the purchase of gold chains doesn’t take away from our ability to contribute to town initiatives, we maintain a household income that is almost 20% above New Jersey’s median.
Some other things that might help calm your fears — Edison was ranked one of the best places to grow up in the entire nation by U.S. News & World Report. According to Money Magazine, it is also one of the best places to live in America. Maybe you should write to them and set them straight?
While you’re at it, share your research on “why India is so damn poor†with the Central Intelligence Agency. They have this crazy notion that India is the fifth largest economy in the world in terms of purchasing power.
In all seriousness, immigrants gave birth to America. I’m not sure what you had in mind for the future of “your townâ€. If you can’t stomach the changes in Edison, I’d strongly advise you not to travel around the nation — You might find that America “is totally unfamiliar to youâ€.
I sincerely can not understand why intelligent South Asians such as the ones who take the time to read and craft considerate responses on this blog would think that it is “OK” to condone a piece such as this in a nationally-run, mainstream publication. Joel Stein did not write this piece as sophisticated commentary on the evolution of a model minority. It is his job create sardonic humor for TIME magazine. He took the easy way out and picked a group that would give him a pass when he stepped over the line. Joel Stein isn’t stupid. He knows he stepped over the line and did it for two reasons… 1) South Asians wouldn’t complain, really 2) He really hates the way his home town has changed.
If you think this is “UNOFFENSIVE”, I promise you that there will be many “UNOFFENSIVE” pieces such as this in the future in TIME and other mainstream media outlets
No disrespect to the folks on here but South Asians don’t speak out because they are to worried about being looked at as trouble makers. I don’t think people should let him get away with it give him an ear full. Haters going to hate anyway.
59 · Krishna Shah on June 29, 2010 1:14 PM “…we maintain a household income that is almost 20% above New Jersey’s median.”
This is remarkable, given that NJ is the richest state in the USA on a per capita basis!
While you’re at it, share your research on “why India is so damn poor†with the Central Intelligence Agency. They have this crazy notion that India is the fifth largest economy in the world in terms of purchasing power.
India is the 4th largest economy in the world based on PPP, brother Krishna.
Guys, I personally thought that the SNL skit about “Ravish” was quite offensive. The main culprit of that skit was the person who played Ravish. She was an Iranian Jw. I think that I’m noticing something that I told myself that I wasn’t going to notice. Ravish was played by an Iranian Jw, and Joel Stein is an Ashkenazi J*w. Am I looking too much into this?
Yes you are looking too much into it. And Jew is not a cussword that you have to bleep it.
” The offensive part is of course at the end — “and we started to understand why India is so damn poor.” No, India is poor for other reasons. It’s fair (to me, anyway) to make a joke about wanna be stylish desi men wearing silk shirts and too much hair-product/cologne. But this last part steps over the line. There is too much human suffering behind those four words (“India is so damn poor”) to think of joking about “
Exactly my sentiments. That line was the part of the article that bothered me the most; as if it was possible to attribute the poverty of a whole nation to the ” even-less-bright cousins” of merchants, engineers etc. Stein’s line of reasoning reminds me of the earlier theories on economic development that claim poverty in the 3rd world can be explained by the characteristics of ‘3rd world’ people themselves( i.e their non Western culture), not external or historical conditions.
Also, I think someone else mentioned how easily it is for ‘good’ stereotypes to become negative ones; it seems that the discovery that Indians (like other people) can occupy an entire range and class professions, and encompass both smart and less-smart people was shocking enough to write a whole article about. Further proof that all stereotyping is just lame.
” The offensive part is of course at the end — “and we started to understand why India is so damn poor.” No, India is poor for other reasons. It’s fair (to me, anyway) to make a joke about wanna be stylish desi men wearing silk shirts and too much hair-product/cologne. But this last part steps over the line. There is too much human suffering behind those four words (“India is so damn poor”) to think of joking about “
Exactly my sentiments. That line was the part of the article that bothered me the most; as if it was possible to attribute the poverty of a whole nation to the ” even-less-bright cousins” of merchants, engineers etc.
That to me also was the most disgusting part of the article. I would assume that Mr. Stein ancestors come from Europe, where a large percentage of Jewish populations lived in abject poverty or serfdom, such as in Russia. Really were those Jewish populations that poor b/c they weren’t bright? Did all their cousins who came and lived in tenements and faced xenophobia and poverty in lower eastside Jewish quarters in nyc suddenly grow a brain. What a stupid, stupid thing to say, especially considering the abject poverty of many Jewish populations in Europe.
Quick clarification on the infamous “Dotbusters” of Jersey City……while what they did was vile and inexcusable, they did not kill Navroze Mody.
Mody did live in Jersey City, up in the Heights, but he was beaten into a coma a few miles away in Hoboken by a group of Hispanic teens.
Over the years, given how the awful event of his fatal beating happened so close to the time the Dotbusters August 5, 1987 letter was published in the Jersey Journal, the group and the man have become inextricably connected.
As a side note:
It’s interesting to me that Joel Stein talking about India’s poverty generates much commentary and is offensive to many people, while an actual story talking about India’s poverty (Ravi’s post on NREGA, preceding this one) generates virtually no comments and no discussion.
Maybe Joel Stein is mad that his job is about to be outsourced.
Joel Stein talking about India’s poverty generates much commentary and is offensive to many people
I don’t think this is surprising that is draws such offense. Stein isn’t talking (analyzing, thinking) about India’s poverty, he’s basically saying poverty = stupidity…; I guess he thinks his ancestors were pretty dumb too. That’s pretty scary. Also scary is the idea that somehow a plumber or merchant (blue collar work) is dumber than doctors…more educated, more affluent, but stupid? America and most other places of the world are built from blue-collar work and there’s nothing wrong with it. He is essentializing the poor – let him say that about Africa or African-Americans or the blue collar workers, white and black in his town, and he’ll find out how out of sync his comments are.
on another side note – Doug, I don’t know if I’d say that Indians are not active. For such a tiny population and such recent immigrants we’ve got a pretty vocal left, who are all up in arms about denying the model minority myth and supporting affirmative action and going political whether right or left. African Americans and Latinos have very large numbers that affect the pockets of those with items to sell…so yeah, I’m not really convinced at all that Indians are complacent.
I agree with Abhi. This article was clearly sarcastic:
“To figure out why it bothered me so much, I talked to a friend of mine from high school, Jun Choi, who just finished a term as mayor of Edison. Choi said that part of what I don’t like about the new Edison is the reduction of wealth, which probably would have been worse without the arrival of so many Indians, many of whom, fittingly for a town called Edison, are inventors and engineers. And no place is immune to change. In the 11 years I lived in Manhattan’s Chelsea district, that area transformed from a place with gangs and hookers to a place with gays and transvestite hookers to a place with artists and no hookers to a place with rich families and, I’m guessing, mistresses who live a lot like hookers. As Choi pointed out, I was a participant in at least one of those changes. We left it at that.”
Every place changes, and the Indian influx actually helped prevent Edison from getting poorer.
The article wasn’t perfect, but it’s clearly satire. Getting offended like this would be more meaningful if it wasn’t coming from a people that is pretty racist against every other race. Or people coming from a nation that doesn’t sell so much Fair & Lovely whitening cream. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-9tcXpW1DE
Or people coming from a nation that doesn’t sell so much Fair & Lovely whitening cream.
Eyeroll…really that’s supposed to make it okay b/c Indians like other Asians and yes, Africans, Middle Easterners, South Americans use bleaching? B/c someone in someone’s particular population uses bleaching, than an idiot like Stein can make offensive remarks about me. And for me, I don’t think that if an Indian necessarily prefers light skin that makes it racist. I see light and dark skin as part of the Indian phenotype and you can have preferences within a population’s traits.
And Indians are racist? Sure some are, some aren’t. Last I heard, war is ravaging many of the world (oh outside of India and South Asia) based on tribal, religious, hair texture lines. So please spare me with the b/c some Indians are racist that that means anybody can say anything offensive about Indians. Guess what lots of Jewish people, whites, Africans, Middle Eastersn and other Asians are racist too. Why don’t we just get rid of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, b/c I’m sure there’s someone in those minority populations that come from racist, casteist, tribalistic, cultural values.
I am sick of people using sarcasm and humor as shields for their obnoxiousness or bigotry. It’s not okay. And they’re not funny. They deserve to be called out. And people who were bothered by this don’t deserve to be invalidated.
Amardeep that’s tenuous as marker, although it seems to have some currency….what do you think number of comments on a story suggests about peoples reaction to the story? It could be people feel the comment section is an appropriate place to opine about one topic, but not another. For one, Nrega may much less familiar and some may hesitate to think commenting on a policy of the government of India’s policy on a blog is going to amount to much substanial. Doubt we will hash out anything close to a beginning of a solution to the problems in a comment section. For what its worth, glad its being written about
Another reason to never give this sort of thing a pass is because it’s about space and territory and who dominates it, even when couched in seemingly benign forms of discourse. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been on the train or bus and heard white folks passing through Central Jersey lament about how there are no more “Americans” in Edison (or other towns like it), or how “no one even speaks English over there.” It’s high bullshit and white folks (or anybody) who talks or jokes like this is suspect of some ignorant tribalistic xenophobic white backlash shit that’s as old as this whole society. It’s not appropriate. It tries to keep a lock on who defines “Americanness” when we should be free to define our own existence within this supposedly “open” society.
Oh please!!! How many Indians turn their noses down at other Indians brought up in Edison???
Is there a link to the TIME article in question? scanned a couple of times but couldn’t find it in the post.
I understand that SM is not a single entity, and doesn’t speak with a single voice. However, after reading the Time piece, I wasn’t very offended. I was less offended than some of the pieces that SM has carried on FOB’s, or some commentary on this site which mimics the speech patterns of supposed FOB’s in a condescending manner. I assume that this offended some as it speaks more about the Indian American population rather than the Indian population. SM is a venue for Indian American bloggers and it’s totally their call to be offended or not. I was not offended as it confirmed (in an exaggerated manner) some of the larger stereotypes (like the Gujarati Motel/Gas Station owner lark) that I had experienced when I first arrived in the states. I would suggest SM lighten up, or at the very least imagine the reaction if some of us went back to a hometown in India and found it dominated by Indonesians, its great fodder for comedy and should be treated as such.
Anna, if something is satire and written in the voice of the “dumb, white American,” you can’t say that the article went too far! It’s satire – he’s going to sound stupid because that’s the point!!!
Bumping this up from Amardeep’s comment:
“There is too much human suffering behind those four words (“India is so damn poor”) to think of joking about it.”
Stein should apologize for those four words.
Some of the other things are irritating, but not all that different from things you ignore everyday, because they need way too much effort to change and are really not worth all the trouble.
Amardeep that’s tenuous as marker, although it seems to have some currency….what do you think number of comments on a story suggests about peoples reaction to the story? It could be people feel the comment section is an appropriate place to opine about one topic, but not another. For one, Nrega may much less familiar and some may hesitate to think commenting on a policy of the government of India’s policy on a blog is going to amount to much substanial.
I think what you’re saying is more or less right, but that very fact just underlines how trivial a lot of internet chatter is. The things that people get riled up about often don’t matter much. Policies that might affect the livelihoods of 50 million or more fellow “brown” people? hm… yawn… Boring Indian politics stuff…
Not saying I’m immune to it or above it. Just a little frustrated with the #trend today.
I actually thought the Stein piece was an attempt at Borat-style humor, where he seems to be making fun of Indians but is really turning the tables on whites who hold the bigotry which is satirized in the article. I think the execution wasn’t 100% though so it still comes off as kind of insulting.
My issue is with Time, a supposedly newsworthy magazine that published this. I can see this being in someone’s comedic monologue or on someone’s blog and it being able to be dismissed easily, but the fact that a prominent news magazine published this I find quite disturbing. A message needs to be sent by the Indian community to Time magazine that this is not acceptable in 2010. We’re already on the cusp of that horrible NBC show outsourced. Have you seen the ads for that? I cringe and seethe every time I see one of the commercials for that. I’m sure there will be discussion on it when it is released. The Indian community needs to send out the message that we’re nobody’s fool.
Ragavacharyar- Joel Stein is in EVERY issue of Time – he’s a columnist!!!! He’s there all the time. He’s not a reporter…He’s not supposed to NOt have bias! Helllloooo…its an editorial!
What strikes me about Stein’s style of writing is the cynicism that is soaked in every sentence. Granted, I am a somewhat cynical person myself, and have little patience for “Tomorrow will be a better day” slogans. But as others have pointed out, Stein overlooks the fact that Edison has a higher than average per capita income, plus highly rated schools and hospitals – it could have deteriorated given that is what usually happens with white flight. As far as the ugliness of the storefronts and strip malls – that is a complaint that is registered by all critics of suburban life – hardly unique to Edison.
Now, if he was just some blogger, that would be one thing. But being a paid columnist in Time carries a different degree of seriousness – a seriousness which Stein appears to throw out like yesterday’s fashions.
BTW, I seriously doubt that Time would allow the following to be printed:
“For a while, we assumed all Jews were geniuses. Then, in the 1980s, the doctors and engineers decided to help out their merchant cousins, and we were no longer so sure about the genius thing. In the 1990s, the not-as-brilliant merchants gave rise to their even-less-bright cousins to work in high finance, and we started to understand why Wall Street goes through boom and bust cycles with disturbing frequency.”
I think its just the nature of it, there’s probably what could be considered good and bad reasons for it. One may be we generally may feel unable to affect in a substantial way the things that affect our lives
I am an Indian-American who was born and raised in Edison. I completely agree that the column is inappropriate and offensive.
But I’ll also admit that I was sad when the Dairy Queen was replaced with Indian takeout. I miss that there used to be a regular grocery store in the neighborhood where I grew up… and then one day it was gone. I was devastated when the best pizza shop in Edison was replaced with yet another Indian restaurant. Don’t get me wrong – I’m thrilled that our people have populated the place. I’m thrilled that Indian culture has become such an important part of American culture – of Jersey culture! But I’m sad that some of the staples in the town I grew up in have been replaced. I’m sure it was simply a supply and demand issue. And perhaps that’s the way things go. It’s just really unfortunate that there wasn’t enough room for both pizza and dosas. Because the Edison I grew up in had both, and so much more.
KXB – ITS SATIRE!!!! Not cynicsm
No, it is cynicism masquerading as satire. Aside from having Dungeons & Dragons partners, Stein seems to be at a loss to point out the benefits of Indian immigration into Edison. Now, I’m sure if I went to parts of Southern California, there are plenty of people who grew up in the 50’s and 60’s who miss the days when a modest income could get you a modest home in a nice neighborhood, but once East Coast transplants came in, they changed they laid back character of the neighborhood. I doubt Stein has that sort of self-reflection.
If the arguement is this is innocous bc its satire, one appreciates successful satire all the more, and ones love of A Modest Proposal grows by bounds
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1999416,00.html
How can the article not be racist? The very first sentence tells us how Joel Stein feels.
The dude plainly does not want immigration in Edison and he laments why. There are enough immigrants already and Indians at that. So even if he wouldn’t mind a small concession at a later date he definitely doesn’t want the Indian type. Why not? The rest of the article whines that they just aint culturally and professionally acceptable enough to him. The Guindians are OK but they smell. Even with western scent.
Still don’t think the article has racist connotations? Wait for it. Stein even uses the word racist. Except that he laments that the situation wasn’t racist enough. Darn. Should have used real hate speech, as if dot heads isn’t bad enough, Doh!
I have no idea if this piece is racist since I stopped reading by the 2nd sentence, finding the 5 words preceding “in 1989” too unbelievable to continue.
“BTW, I seriously doubt that Time would allow the following to be printed:
‘For a while, we assumed all Jews were geniuses. Then, in the 1980s, the doctors and engineers decided to help out their merchant cousins, and we were no longer so sure about the genius thing. In the 1990s, the not-as-brilliant merchants gave rise to their even-less-bright cousins to work in high finance, and we started to understand why Wall Street goes through boom and bust cycles with disturbing frequency.'”
While we’re at it, substitute the “why Wall Street goes through boom and bust cycles…” with “why the Holocaust happened.” See, it’s still a hilarious joke! If you don’t think it’s funny, then you’re just not smart enough to get my sense of humor!
I think the article is stupid, not racist. The only part I take any objection to is the “that’s why India is so damn poor” bit because equating poverty with stupidity is something that many, many wealthy people do quite frequently in real life, especially with regard to the Third World. There’s no lack of people (probably many in Stein’s audience) who believe on some subconscious level that all those brown people in faraway places are suffering and starving and dying in such great numbers because they are inferior in some way. It’s certainly not an idea without precedent in history.
It just kind of chafes, knowing that Stein is talking about a really incredible amount of human suffering in dismissive terms, probably without ever having seen it or felt any personal connection to it. Stupid jokes about suffering and poverty in Africa and India are not uncommon in the media and they always bother me because by making these jokes, Americans are just creating another level of otherness for these fellow humans and removing themselves even further from their suffering.
The rest of the article is just silly and I didn’t mind it at all. Big, big difference between making fun of Guido Indians and saying that people in the Third World suffer because they’re stupid.
Oh my word people!!! Satire – look it up.
Imagine Stephen Colbert wrote this article…..That first sentence is referencing how white america doesn’t mind xyz, as long as its not in their backyard……
@ edisongirl:
My comment will seem unfair since fast-food joints are my natural enemy, but I don’t miss the ex-Dairy Queen spot on Oak Tree Rd (in front of Liquor Locker) at all. Even though what they sell there now is sweets and other junk food anyway, at least it is controlled by local people and not some big outside franchise corporation. The demise of local Pizza Huts and such is to be applauded if you ask me, especially when small local businesses take over. If junk food is to be sold, might as well be owned and made by the people it will be sold to. Brown folks sit up there comfortably out in the little lot now every day. I dig it. Local economics. It works and it’s better – control the resources in your community, and keep money circulating within, as Malcolm X and Garvey always instructed.
I’m still waiting for the demise and razing of that damned Burger King on the corner of Wood and Oak Tree. Might as well throw the Liquor Locker itself in that category. And the giant Shop-rite/ Pathmark is still missing a tenant (and it’s not Indian folks’ fault it has been abandoned). Just a big ol’ box sitting empty in front of an empty giant parking lot. Then there’s the ex-United Skates around the corner on Wood Ave, been closed for like three years along with almost every other store on that strip. It’s blighted, right between Little India, Metropark and the Parkway. How could serious tenants, especially local businesses, not want a piece of that? I guess it’s a sign of the times. It ain’t all good in the hood.
As a vegan, the cheapest produce you can get in this area outside of the proper farmer’s markets of the growing season in Metuchen, South Edison, New Brunswick, Highland Park etc? Patel’s Cash & Carry in Oak Tree Rd in Iselin. I pick okra all day over there. Plum tomatoes were $0.50/ lb the other day – lowest prices I’ve ever seen! Subzi Mandi down and across the street is also not a bad bet – they take care of their produce well over there. You can’t get the selection (too “ethnic”) or the prices at any conventional supermarket. To hell with Pathmark! They should build and put the most gigantic Indian/ Asian supermarket in that spot. (I will admit that Apna Bazaar is a lil scuzzy).
Plus when I can pick between taking my pleasure walks through what, Metuchen Main St? The Menlo Mall? or Oak Tree Rd? Oak Tree Rd gets the most points for me. Although being a bibliophile and a lover of Roosevelt Park, I often pass through that way to roll through Barnes n Noble.
So I am pro-Edison. To Joel Klein – love it or leave it (that’s what they always say to critics like us)!
Oh look, Indians have been made fun off. How is that possible? Let’s get all outraged and demand Stein’s ouster from TIME.
Get a life people. You have just been made fun off, not a big deal. Move on.
Joel Stein’s writings are supposed to be sort of tongue-in-cheek (although I don’t claim to know his exact intentions here). I did not find his article funny and left it at that. At the same I find the the above post reactive in sort of “I’ll show him” vein. Now, reacting to a “raghead” comment from a politician I can get, but taking the words of a satirist literally is a little immature no? Especially when you start eviscerating it point by point, debate its veracity and hypocritically call into the picture his being a Jew, a white and what not. IMO we can all be labeled racists as far as our biases go, but actual “racism” is more sinister than that.
Joel Stein may have been trying to ridicule racist attitudes by using deadpan sarcasm, but everything ended up sounding genuinely racist. Maybe he assumed that his anecdotes were so ridiculous that everyone could tell he was joking, but none of them seemed ridiculous. I grew up around people who said and did very similar things regarding Hispanic people (who are apparently all “Mexicans”). Sometimes people’s honestly-held beliefs are so ridiculous they’re funny, but a satirist has to show somehow that he/she doesn’t actually agree with them. Indians aside, Stein’s sterotyping of the state of New Jersey and the American educational system, i.e. kids being petty criminals who are too uneducated to come up with good ethnic slurs, comes off as lazy at best and pathetically cynical at worst (“Hey, New Jersey sucks and American kids are dumb thugs, right? Aren’t I bitingly humorous for pointing that out?”). Yes, there are genuine “Jersey Shore guidos” out there, but trying to counter one stereotype with another rarely works on the page or in real life. Writing good satire is HARD. Sarcastic and jaded does not equate to clever and relevant. I’ve had deadpan sarcasm and faux-cynical “social commentary” blow up in my face, as I’m sure many other writers have (Mr. Stein now being one of them). I do see some of the humor I think he was trying to convey, but it did not come across in the delivery.
OK – was anyone arguing that Stein was auditioning for the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan? Is it possible to be racist and pleasant, charming, and witty? There is nothing hypocritical in pointing out that while a Jewish guy is getting paid (quite well mind you) to write this nonsense, an aspiring Hindu or Muslim writer joking about Jewish real estate on the shores of the Mediterranean, the rumored frigidity of their women, their inedible food, and their knack of getting kicked out of one country to the next would quite rightly rejected in the submissions dept.
Oh c’mon, aside from the abrasive (albeit satiric) tone of the article, none of you felt at all sympathetic to Stein’s POV? He acknowledges that neighborhoods and cities change with the changing times, which naturally makes people feel nostalgic for how things used to be. Edison is not just a town that has a sizeable number of Indians. It is a town that has been taken over by Indians. It may not be PC to say this, but it is true, and a part of my sympathizes with Stein and his mixed feelings towards this. Heck, I remember a Bangalore where people actually spoke Kannada on the streets instead of English or Hindi, and I completely miss that Bangalore. Doesn’t mean I dislike North Indians, but yeah, I feel a sense of longing for a time when my traditions and cultures were part of the city I called home.
Anna,
Normally I’m a big fan of your pieces, but I think you went too far this time. Maybe you should calm down before you write things. Your commentary on Stein’s piece was longer than the piece itself. If you read his column on a regular basis, you’ll get the humor and realize he’s not racist. Don’t be offended just because he excluded Indians who are Christian. I gotta agree with Abhi here. Take a chill pill.