In Pakistan, Shahzad does have some relatives in Karachi, but his father’s family lives near Peshawar, in a suburb called Hayatabad. This story in the International News, a Pakistani newspaper, states that his father is a retired Air Vice Marshal in the Pakistan Air Force.
Air Vice Marshal (R) Baharul Haq, father of Faisal Shahzad, the accused in New York’s failed bomb plot, hurriedly vacated the family home in Hayatabad town here late Tuesday apparently to avoid attention.
Eyewitnesses said he packed some belongings in a vehicle and left the house located in Phase IV of the posh Hayatabad town along with male and female members of the family. Their destination wasn’t known.
Earlier, members of the media, in particularly TV crews had converged on the house in a bid to talk to family members and learn more about Faisal Shahzad, who was arrested Tuesday in the US on charges of plotting the vehicle bomb attack and now accused of an attempted act of terrorism. However, nobody in Air Vice Marshal (R) Baharul Haq’s household or the neighbours were ready to talk to reporters. A Geo TV reporter was shown outside the house trying to engage in conversation with neighbours. Some people in the neighbourhood expressed ignorance about Faisal Shahzad’s arrest in the US. (link)
What is there to learn from this? First, I think it reaffirms that potential terrorists could come from virtually any economic and educational background; a surprising number of major terror suspects in recent years have had advanced degrees (Shahzad has an MBA). Second, there’s hardly a long history of identification with extremist ideology here. With a big smile and a bluetooth headset in his ear, he looks like he should be selling me cell phone accessories at the AT&T store, not wiring amateur bombs. Finally, this guy is the son of a senior officer in the military, a powerful institution in Pakistan, with several other male family members apparently also in the military. They are undoubtedly deeply embarrassed by all this.
In the days and weeks to come, I’m sure we’ll learn more about Faisal Shahzad. Judging from the many mistakes he made in assembling a bomb (with the wrong kind of fertilizer! propane tanks that weren’t opened! completely useless wiring and timers!), my guess is that he had little, if any, “training.” It seems more like a version of the American dream gone horribly awry: something snapped.
OK. Still means he violated his naturalization oath when he attacked the United States.
He said it was because while he was training all those long months in those Pakistani jihadi terrorist camps – you know the terrorists training ground in Pakistan’s tribal areas he went to RIGHT AFTER he became and American citizen – he saw many of his jihadi leaders killed by the drones: ” The Connecticut man charged yesterday with the botched Times Square car bombing confessed to trying to slaughter innocent people in retaliation for US drone attacks that wiped out the leadership of his beloved Taliban, The Post has learned.
Admitted terrorist Faisal Shahzad — who copped to training in explosives in the past year with Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, the leading extremist Islamic group in his native Pakistan — said he was driven to evil by the slew of deaths among leaders of the terror group, law-enforcement sources revealed yesterday. “
He sounds like a sleeper. Considering the close relationship between the Pakistani military, ISI and the Taliban and other terrorists groups that Pakistan uses as a proxy military force, I think his family is probably only embarrassed he got caught. He probably wanted to be an American citizen so he would be treated as an American and all the legal protections that come with it. Looks to me he started selling his goods and stopped paying his mortgage because he no longer needed to pose as a regular guy now that he got to be an American citizen last April. He lied when he took the oath. The traitor in the military also started selling his worldly goods prior to his murdering his fellow soldiers and former patients.
Manju, good thing you decided to plead nolo contendre on the adulation of Timothy McVeigh by Sean Hannity and the cop-killer wingnut militia Hutaree. And we definitely aren’t going to look at modern secession advocates like the governor of Texas, are we? As for teabaggers and their fellow loons praying for the president’s demise? “No we don’t mean it!” We have a serious problem when 50% of Southern GOP supporters report “Not sure” about Obama’s citizenship!
As for doing the false flag routine of the Austin GOP bomber, he seems to have inspired Mitch McConnell, who pocketed a few millions from Wall St crooks while he railed against the financial reform bill – claiming it will create a permanent bailout for Wall St. Never mind McConnell will not do anything to curb derivatives or the 100 other things we need to do to put Wall St in shape. As for the tea-baggers they are massively AWOL – being the fakes and ossified reactionaries they are – not surprising!
Sean Hannity praising McVeigh That’s how low the GOP is now. Can it sink lower? Given what passes for GOP intelligentsia these days, anything is possible.
Shilpa #97,
Ask Chris Hitchens about Japanese Buddhist/Shinto inspired rationalization of WW2 atrocities. Also let’s not forget all those Buddhist clergy organized riots in Sri Lanka in the 80s.
Here is a little more detail, but check the NY Post for the whole article in the link above: “It was payback. The Connecticut man charged yesterday with the botched Times Square car bombing confessed to trying to slaughter innocent people in retaliation for US drone attacks that wiped out the leadership of his beloved Taliban, The Post has learned. Admitted terrorist Faisal Shahzad — who copped to training in explosives in the past year with Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, the leading extremist Islamic group in his native Pakistan — said he was driven to evil by the slew of deaths among leaders of the terror group, law-enforcement sources revealed yesterday. His training came in a tribal area where American drone aircraft have pummeled members of the Pakistan Taliban and al Qaeda in the past year. Sources said he was an eyewitness to the onslaught throughout the eight months he spent in Pakistan beginning last summer. The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for the Times Square bombing attempt immediately after it occurred, saying it was in response to the drone killing of one of its leaders in August — but that claim had been roundly discounted by US authorities at the time. But by yesterday, Pakistani Foreign Minister Makhdoom Qureshi said, “This is a blowback. This is a reaction. This is retaliation. And you could expect that,” according to CBS News.”
So much activity within a year. American citizenship in what April. Obviously lying when he took the oath. Terrorist training by summer for the next 8 months. Selling off goods in America. Stop paying mortgage, not because he couldn’t afford it but because he knew he wasn’t going to hang around much longer. Relocate wife and kids to Pakistan so they are not subject to investigation after he attempts his premeditated mass murder of ordinary people in Times Square.
I also think this fool was a sleeper. He is complaining that the drones were too successful in killing off Taliban Leadership.
About the terrorist organization this sleeper punk loves so much “In late December 2008 and early January 2009 Mullah Omar sent a delegation, led by former Guantanamo Bay detainee Mullah Abdullah Zakir, to persuade leading members of the TTP to put aside differences and aid the Afghan Taliban in combating the American presence in Afghanistan.[3] Baitullah Mehsud, Hafiz Gul Bahadur and Maulavi Nazir agreed in February and formed the Shura Ittehadul Mujahideen (SIM), also transliterated as Shura Ittehad-ul-Mujahideen and translated into English as the Council of United Mujahedeen.[3][5][6] In a written statement circulated in a one-page Urdu-language pamphlet, the three affirmed that they would put aside differences to fight American-led forces. The statement included a declaration of allegiance to both Mullah Omar and Osama bin Laden.[3][5]” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehrik-i-Taliban_Pakistan
Wow, when is the US going to wake up and stop considering Pakistan as an “ally.” It really makes me mad as an Indian. Wake up, America! They are funding this sleeper’s father’s forces. How dumb. What is the politics of this–just Cold War hangover? This sleeper is the son of a high-level Pakistani general. Makes you realize where the line between “us” and “them” is really drawn. Pakistan military is a “them.” I hope FBI and MI-5 are rolling up more sleeper cells as we speak. India could really use more hi-tech help from the US for coastal protection, and infiltration along its land borders. Please, Uncle?
US should demand arrest and extradition of Pakistani general father–for “materially aiding terrorism” by paying for his sleeper activities (education, house, etc.). But, no, US turns out to be wimpy towards its “ally,” just like India is after Mumbai massacre.
What’s up with these comments? Since when is it a crime or even suspicious to criticize the US? I criticize the US all the time, and I love this country–AND I’m not about to blow anybody up, ever!
That’s one of the things that makes this country great–that you can pretty much say whatever the eff you want. I’m one of those Americans who calls himself American and criticizes some aspects of America even though I know that “America” is a whole hemisphere, not just the Center of the Universe.
I haven’t read this whole thread but I prolly will, later. I just wanted to get this in before comments are closed.
Most of our greatest patriots have had something negative to say about the government at some time or another. Got it? It has nothing to do with blowing people up–nothing. Zero. Stop insinuating that. Now.
High five, Manju. Well played. : D
when judged against the repulsive levels of poverty in many of these nations
Razib has a complex about India. Razib, compared to thirty years ago, India is immensely better off. Compared to the famines of yore, we now have steady malnutrition. Give us a generation. We will crush your narrative of inferiority based on iq/race/status, which runs through everything you write. You are not living in the promised land any more my friend; your country – by all sober accounts – is in decline. In the age of Obama, is blonde hair and white skin the signifier of supremacy it once was? No, my friend, it is not. Now go quietly into the night.
India checks the country of origin (including the parents) when giving visa to US citizens. If the person or his parents are of Pakistani origin then the processing has to be done in Delhi & takes a long time.
What I find myself wondering about his motives:
a) did he fight with his wife and fall to pieces afterward? Lose job and house, then drift into jihad as a way of restoring his self-esteem? b) did he lose his job and then his house and decide that his dream of coming to the US and getting rich had been a cruel delusion? c) did he suddenly get the jihadi bug and jettison wife, house, job, citizenship, everything for which he had worked?
Three very different stories.
Monday night’s arrest of Faisal Shahzad, a 30-year-old Pakistani-American accused of planting a car bomb in Times Square on Saturday, will undoubtedly stoke the usual debate about how best to keep America safe in the age of Islamic terrorism. But this should not deflect us from another, equally pressing, question. Why do Pakistan and the Pakistani diaspora churn out such a high proportion of the world’s terrorists?
Indonesia has more Muslims than Pakistan. Turkey is geographically closer to the troubles of the Middle East. The governments of Iran and Syria are immeasurably more hostile to America and the West. Yet it is Pakistan, or its diaspora, that produced the CIA shooter Mir Aimal Kasi; the 1993 World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef (born in Kuwait to Pakistani parents); 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed; Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl’s kidnapper, Omar Saeed Sheikh; and three of the four men behind the July 2005 train and bus bombings in London.
The list of jihadists not from Pakistan themselves—but whose passage to jihadism passes through that country—is even longer. Among them are Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, Mohamed Atta, shoe bomber Richard Reid, and John Walker Lindh, the so-called American Taliban. Over the past decade, Pakistani fingerprints have shown up on terrorist plots in, among other places, Germany, Denmark, Spain and the Netherlands. And this partial catalogue doesn’t include India, which tends to bear the brunt of its western neighbor’s love affair with violence.
In attempting to explain why so many attacks—abortive and successful—can be traced back to a single country, analysts tend to dwell on the 1980s, when Pakistan acted as a staging ground for the successful American and Saudi-funded jihad against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. But while the anti-Soviet campaign undoubtedly accelerated Pakistan’s emergence as a jihadist haven, to truly understand the country it’s important to go back further, to its creation.
Pakistan was carved out of the Muslim-majority areas of British India in 1947, the world’s first modern nation based solely on Islam. The country’s name means “Land of the Pure.” The capital city is Islamabad. The national flag carries the Islamic crescent and star. The cricket team wears green.
From the start, the new country was touched by the messianic zeal of pan-Islamism. The Quranic scholar Muhammad Asad—an Austrian Jew born Leopold Weiss—became an early Pakistani ambassador to the United Nations. The Egyptian Said Ramadan, son-in-law of Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna, made Pakistan a second home of sorts and collaborated with Pakistan’s leading Islamist ideologue, the Jamaat-e-Islami’s Abul Ala Maududi. In 1949, Pakistan established the world’s first transnational Islamic organization, the World Muslim Congress. Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, the virulently anti-Semitic grand mufti of Jerusalem, was appointed president.
Through alternating periods of civilian and military rule, one thing about Pakistan has remained constant—the central place of Islam in national life. In the 1960s, Pakistan launched a war against India in an attempt to seize control of Kashmir, the country’s only Muslim-majority province, one that most Pakistanis believe ought to be theirs by right.
In the 1970s the Pakistani army carried out what Bangladeshis call a genocide in Bangladesh; non-Muslims suffered disproportionately. Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto boasted about creating an “Islamic bomb.” (The father of Pakistan’s nuclear program, A.Q. Khan, would later export nuclear technology to the revolutionary regime in Iran.) In the 1980s Pakistan welcomed Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the Palestinian theorist of global jihad Abdullah Azzam.
In the 1990s, armed with expertise and confidence gained fighting the Soviets, the army’s notorious Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) spawned the Taliban to take over Afghanistan, and a plethora of terrorist groups to challenge India in Kashmir. Even after 9/11, and despite about $18 billion of American aid, Pakistan has found it hard to reform its instincts.
Pakistan’s history of pan-Islamism does not mean that all Pakistanis, much less everyone of Pakistani origin, hold extremist views. But it does explain why a larger percentage of Pakistanis than, say, Indonesians or Tunisians, are likely to see the world through the narrow prism of their faith. The ISI’s reluctance to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism—training camps, a web of ultra-orthodox madrassas that preach violence, and terrorist groups such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba—ensure that Pakistan remains a magnet for any Muslim with a grudge against the world and the urge to do something violent about it.
If Pakistan is to be reformed, then the goal must be to replace its political and cultural DNA. Pan-Islamism has to give way to old-fashioned nationalism. An expansionist foreign policy needs to be canned in favor of development for the impoverished masses. The grip of the army, and by extension the ISI, over national life will have to be weakened. The encouragement of local languages and cultures such as Punjabi and Sindhi can help create a broader identity, one not in conflict with the West. School curricula ought to be overhauled to inculcate a respect for non-Muslims.
Needless to say, this will be a long haul. But it’s the only way to ensure that the next time someone is accused of trying to blow up a car in a crowded place far away from home, the odds aren’t that he’ll somehow have a Pakistan connection.
On what basis are you ruling out: d) sleeper-cell member all along; just been activated
“when judged against the repulsive levels of poverty in many of these nations”
Razib has a complex about India.
LOL. i wasn’t thinking about india at all! (since indian muslims aren’t too well represented amongst the salafist international) the fact that you imputed that into my comment tells us what you you think about india. repulsive poverty, oh, of curse must be thinking about india! pathetic ‘tard.
Ask Chris Hitchens about Japanese Buddhist/Shinto inspired rationalization of WW2 atrocities.
i think state shinto should be viewed a bit differently from the buddhism and shinto which existed before its emergence. state shinto even integrated japanese christians under its umbrella (though obviously many christians disagreed with this absorption). also, the kamikaze pilot diaries indicate little real religious motivation from what i have read, rather, it was plain uber-nationalism. and they’re probably the most extreme case of the mass craziness which occurred in japanese during those years. just like the mainstream protestant lutheran church in germany was co-opted during the nazi period, so was buddhism and the more decentralized ideas of shinto, into the nationalist ideology. it seems that theravada buddhism has a more obvious central, rather than ancillary, role in the nationalism of the sinhalese or burmans/bamars. and i think that is due to the more secularized nature of germany and japan during world war ii (and in japan the buddhist institutions were pretty much crushed as independent political institutions after oda nobunaga’s campaign, and were straight-up tools of the state during the tokugawa period).
Harbeer, I was a little lazy when referring to the guy’s venting in front of family or friends in the past. I did not mean any criticism of the US was bad. I wonder if some of his venting included some Taliban like speak about America, and not just that the US is wrong about stuff. Did he talk about how justified the other terrorist attacks were? I do not know. But it would be interesting to find out.
You didn’t provide a link so I had no idea what you’re talking about.
Your 2 steps behind me. I took a wack at them here.
Well, you’ve provided no evidence of teabaggers wishing for Obama’s demise. You need to support your case with evidence. For example, here are leftists advocating for the assination of GW Bush. See how easy it is?
Very troublesome. But we have a similar percentage of dems who have traded in 911-conspiracy theories, which frankly enable the very type of terrorism we are talking about in this thread…becasue these theories intersect with antsemitsm and help perpetete an exaggerated sense of victimizaiton within muslim communities.
I have no idea what your talking about re the austin GOP bomber. you’ve still provided no evidence he belonged to the GOP and have failed to provide evidence that McConnell was inspired by him, which is an odd stament, considering his views on wall st appear to align with those off liberals:
a quick google reveals hannity calling his peepes little mcveighs as a saracastic way of making fun of unhinged ctricism of teabaggers by approprating the insult. if this is what has your panties in a bunch then you’re even more unhinged than the teabagger themselves who, as far as i know, haven’t gone into a frenzy over obama recently admitting he wasn’t born in the usa.
Did he talk about how justified the other terrorist attacks were?
almost everyone who engages in terrorism against the USA thinks that other attacks were justified. almost no one who thinks that other terror attacks were justified engages in a terror attack themselves. IOW, a large minority of the world’s population, including many non-muslims, view the USA as a brutal hegemonic power which deserves to be brought down a notch or two. that’s just a fact. because of america’s foreign entanglements a substantial proportion of the world’s population will exhibit animus toward the american government, and to a lesser extent the people who elect that government. that’s a descriptive fact.
Sean Hannity sarcastically referred to some people as “Timothy McVeigh wannabees”. Adulation… I think not.
In 1992 Ice-T wrote and performed the hit song “Cop Killer” whose central theme was killing police officers (big surprise). I assume he was a terrorist too. A judge recently ruled that the Hutaree were not gulity of a crime for talking about killing cops. The ACLU regularly defends unsavory people like pedophiles and neo-Nazis for the right to have their twisted views under the right to free speech. I daresay the Hutaree have that same privilege for better or worse.
A tasteless “award winning” film about the assassination of George Bush was made while he was in office…
Manju and DailyBong,
Quick phone call consultations with Castellanos and Luntz won’t help. Hannity is being sarcastic? Yeah that’s why McVeigh is suddenly a hero with the base! Yeah right at the Reagan Library! Check out the video!
Nice try making it seem as if I linked McConnell with the Austin GOPer who drove his plane into the Federal building. I was likening the way they frame their dissent – which is to support corporate welfare crooks while making it seem that they oppose it. Obviously you have again decided not to tangle with the fact that McConnell is taking his orders from Wall St crooks and lobbyists who are now funding GOPers in order to finish off fin sector reform. I like the way how you guys ignore the facts and make wrong connections. Smart try, but won’t cut the mustard.
And try something better than tu quoque. The difference between the Bush days and now is that the anti-Bush types were the fringe who are if anything more anti-Dem. The Obama is a Kenyan and birther-deather crowd is mainstream GOP. The assorted thuggish militias Hutaree and others actually back GOPers everywhere. We aren’t talking about due process, which everyone is entitled. Unless of course if you ask a GOPer or a GOPer toady like Lieberman who wants Shahzad’s rights to be revoked!
jyotsana, Wow–re: your views of US politics. I am not an American, but–you are really falling into the stereotype of an immigrant who is right-wing in country of origin but left-wing in US. Like Jews who vote Democratic but favor Likud, Muslims who vote democratic but favor Hezbollah, etc. We Hindutvas should at least give GOP more of a chance, given Democrats are in bed with Muslims. Or, maybe both leading US parties really are bad!
From New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/06/nyregion/06profile.html?hp=&pagewanted=all
I’m going to paraphrase what my friend wrote to me
“My Nepali friend attended the University of Colorado at the same time as the Mian sisters. He didn’t know them personally but whenver he saw them around campus, they gave off a “weird” vibe, he said. He could tell they were conservative (they may have worn the hijab) and found it strange they would attend the University of Colorado at Boulder — a well-known party/marijuana/football school. The conservative muslim university students in Colorado usually attend University of Colorado at Denver (most attended this public one) or University of Denver (less likely as it is private and tution is expensive) as both are commuter campuses for them in the Denver-area — which allowed them to live with their parents and generally stay away from the typical college party life. He said the Tivioli center at University of Colorado at Denver has a Muslim students office and the Muslim students he met had radical views and gave off that same “weird” vibe, he felt with the Mian sisters.”
why is rob aka shilpa allowed to spew hate so freely like this?
This is a conspiracy hatched by Zionist Hindus who wish to malign Pakistan and prevent us from becoming the next superpower. Soon America will submit and than the word. Bluetooth headpieces is haraam and he is clearly wearing one.
@ alberuni,
Pakistani identity is based on Islamic nationalism, something deemed “haram” by would be terrorists. Pakistan is seen by die-hard terrorists as a “Western stooge.”
However, not all Pakistanis want to be Pakistanis including myself. Growing up, my family would say, “Pakistan is the Punjab!”. The Sindh, Baluchistan, Kashmir, and “occupied southern Afghanistan” are NOT Pakistan since power, social prestige, and societal clout rests in the hands of those in the Punjab.
My family has abandoned Pakistan. I have relatives marrying Indian Muslims and cousins attending college in Iran and Uzbekistan. My family refuses to speak Urdu, in my home we speak Farsi.
Rabbanaa ‘aatinaa fid-dunyaa hasanatan wa fil-‘aakhirati hasanatan wa qinaa ‘athaaban-nar.
Our Lord, grant us the good things in this world and the good things in the next life and save us from the punishment of the Fire. Surat Al-Baqarah, 2:201
Mustafa
What is “islamic nationalism”? I am not sure what that means.
I think the issue that Dhume is explaining in his article is that paki identity is based on a negative anti-india/hindu ideology combined with a obsession with a mythologized islamic past. I personally think it also incorporates a certain racism and enthusiasm for militarism that originates from the 100s of military victories of the turkic-afghan conquerors of northern india.
Dhume concludes his article calling for pakistan to develop a “normal” nationalism – with pride in regions and sub-cultures and languages – I think this is also your point about “pakistan is the punjab”.
@121 · jyotsana
Yes, I know a lot of people frothing-in-mouth upset that the Manhattan bomber turned out to be a text book case of a Pakistan/Taliban trained terrorist rather than what they prayed for: some militia type, 😉 It is disappointing but you’ll just have to get over it. Hannity, Tea Baggers, Joe Stack and the GOP have nothing to do with this thread.Your apoplectic ramblings have dragged all of that into the discussion.
Manju wrote: Very troublesome. But we have a similar percentage of dems who have traded in 911-conspiracy theories, which frankly enable the very type of terrorism we are talking about in this thread
Cite? And “out of my ass” is not a valid citation.
anonima
The use of “baniya” in paki discourse about indians/hindus has less to do with caste than to do with history and self-perception. A baniya is a trader, a wheeler-dealer who will compromise and adapt to circumstances to survive. He is much less than a powerful conqueror or a military man – which is the paki self-perception (aided by many paki intellectuals – for example Iqbals glamorization of “powerful islamic conquerors with flashing swords”).
@nyx Shilpa, –Sure – if that’s what it takes for you feel “emotionally” American.–
But that was I – Sulabh not Shilpa.:)
[quote] “You don’t need a marriage license to become ’emotionally’ invested in a relationship but it helps. […] Most desis who are emotionally invested in the US tend to live for ten years or more in the US or have formative experiences in the States.” [end quote]
I’d agree.
quote] “This guy went to grad school here but I would not call it a formative experience.” [end quote]
I’d agree with this too, IMO it takes a while before an immigrant can dispassionately compare one’s motherland and the country where he/she immigrated to. Indians take quite long too as we come here from a civilization that is ‘thousands of years old’, so you have “every thing started in India” types.
[quote] “If his children grow up in the States where he lived, I could see the point of calling him an American citizen. Regardless, the fool has tried to blow up Times Square.” [end quote]
I do not completely agree with this. Lot of kids in USA are raised by desi parents who (strangely) become more radical over a period of time – these parents deny their kids a normal ‘American’ childhood like sleepovers, valentine day, b’day parties (even attending parties) etc etc. Not only that these poor kids are fed garbage about perceived superiority of their religion.
@bell the cat “why is rob aka shilpa allowed to spew hate so freely like this?” But Democrats are bedding Muslims: http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/005218.html 🙂
Van Jones, former “Green Czar” in the Obama administration, was/is a vocal supporter of the “Truther Movement” claiming 9/11 was an “inside job” and was deliberately allowed to happen by the government. His inspirations in life are Chairman Mao and Amilcar Cabral. Probably likes long walks on the beach too.
Sorry Sulabh, My bad. 🙂 I tend to agree with your point overall. Perhaps I am from a more liberal sect of Hinduism though I am presently not religious, so my parents don’t even question what I wear, where I go, b’day. sleepover etc but I heard some families do the exact same thing which astonishes me. Dating on the other hand…
From a Rasmussen poll in 2007
Herer’s a graphic summery.
As non-partison scholar Brendan Nyhan:
Also, I would hasten to add, as non-partisan john avalon (author of Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe Is Hijacking America, available now from Beast Books) points out , Birtherism began on the left…specifically with rabid hillary clinton supporters; which of course is unsurprising given the clinton’s southern strategy.
you have a cite demonstrating his populairty?
As for doing the false flag routine of the Austin GOP bomber, he seems to have inspired Mitch McConnell — jyotsana
I take the repetitve argument-by–assertion as a begruded concession you have no proof that he was a GOPer.
so you reframe a terrorists lefty views as disingenuaos, which itself is ironically a conspiracy theory.
why should i? i vote demiocratic as you know. and i know dems get more corporate money, includug from wall st. so (especially inthe last election cylce and i belive its around 50-50 (for wall st) so far this year. i’m genrally comfortable with them, with the exception of the ones who enable communism.
.
i provided a cite demonstrating the only known party affilaition of the hutaree was dem, just like the kkk in its prime.
Screw that. I’m about to get a trishul in this piece. It’s hindutvavadi, not hindutva. Hate properly people.
spectacular misrepresentation. if bush should’ve known that a 9/11 type conspiracy was in the offing, i am sure many dems believe yes given that he had a memo on his desk saying bin laden determined to attack in us and detailing the exact modus operandi. that is not truther, and to equate bush’s incompetence with trutherism shows monumental idiocy or monumental duplicity.
To bellthecat, Is this truther by your definition?
MSNBC has posted his resume online.
Actually, yours is the “spectacular misrepresentation”, as the poll doesn’t ask if they believe “bush should’ve known” rather it asks how likely was this:
From his resume,
???!!!! That’s hard to believe.
Why do I think this guy less al-Qaeda and more damn-the-Wall-Street-fat-cats.
Because you want to. Damn-the-Wall-Street-fat-cats would have made sense if the attempt was downtown rather than times square. (Although one could argue, that times square has its share of financial organizations, Nasdaq, MS, Reuters, etc)
Comedy Central caved like a stack of wet cardboard over that South Park episode. However they apparently have no fear of being attacked by members of other religions….
Pakistani Military has long been the patron of a number of jihadi organisations, whom it mentored, supported and funded to be utilised in their proxy wars. They were indispensable tools in Pak Army’s bid to gain the upper hand in Afghanistan, and to destabilise a much stronger enemy using deniable, asymmetric tactics. This dates back at least to the first Kashmir war of 1948, and the pattern continues till this day. These organisations have never targetted Pakistan itself in the past, and all was well till the Americans got involved.
‘Jihad fi sibillilah’ still remains a strong ideological pillar of the army, even though it now finds itself in a war against it’s former allies (eg the recent Khalid Khwaja/ Col Imam kidnapping drama), which it is conducting in a reluctant and selective way, because after decades of serious radicalisation, it might find itself fighting insurmountable numbers of it’s own citizens in case it is not careful about defining the enemy. Hence the kid glove treatment to the more ‘India centric’ organisations.
There is a long list of illustrious Pakistani army officers with close links to Jihadi organisations of various descriptions. David Coleman Headley and Tahawwur H Rana were alumni of the cadet college in Hasan Abdal. I feel that an association with the Pakistan Army is a strong, additive risk factor for having extremist leanings. The parents must be extremely embarrassed though, as evidenced by this news item
@Dizzy Desi, you are probably right and I am just projecting.
Professional Pakistani-American Males Extremely Angry with Faisal Shahzad http://wp.me/pIP1s-4x
“Well, you’ve provided no evidence of teabaggers wishing for Obama’s demise. You need to support your case with evidence. For example, here are leftists advocating for the assination of GW Bush. See how easy it is?”
Newsflash: nobody engaged in these movements wants his “demise.” Believe me, I’ve covered them exhaustively–nobody. It’s called political dissent and it happens to every president who occupies to Oval Office.
But WTF is going on these past 20 years re Muslims and US? The Pakistani guy may have been mentally ill, subjected to some sort of programming; or this could be a false flag operation. Or he could really have meant it. Nobody knows yet. I gather most of you are probably too young to recall, but the U.S. never had any major probs with Muslims prior to the 1979 Iranian crisis. I should have realized my Connecticut Jewish boyfriend (and classmate of Arlo Guthrie) was on to something when he took me to that Communist rally at Columbia and we were treated to a balcony full of good-looking (I thought so) Iranian students singing the Internationale. It was a rousing good performance, their cause was “joost” (boyfriend’s rendering of their pronunciation) and we all wished them well, but, hey, the Gang of Four had been apprehended, Vietnam was finished, China was opening up and the forces of Good win! 30+ years on, I see what was what. China was opening up for Big Business; Iran meant business in a big way, and my boyfriend is now a bourgois businessman. That steel mill he was working in (a doctor’s son, he had to join the working class), has shut its doors and is now exploiting workers in China instead of Baltimore. I think the singing Iranians were all deported. Speaking as someone whose family has been in this country for centuries, I’d say a lot of immigrants have more emotional connection to it, and sense of what it means, than I do. One doesn’t HAVE to be born here. OTOH, many born here may hate it for reasons both rational and “joost” or just plain insane.
Prayers for President O’s “demise” are the usual impeachment rumblings to which every president since Nixon has been heir. Don’t believe those urban legends about evil Republicans uttering racial epithets on the steps of the Capital. Good leftist press as it may be, times have changed since Birth of a Nation and if there’s an epithet around, a mike is sure to locate it and destroy the career of the perp (and rightfully so.) There were far more open threats and vain imaginings of Bush Jr.’s demise. Working on Capital Hill you would have been privy to any number of Bush-bashings in the early years of this century.. And I am also among those who thinks he “knew.” Or rather those handling him knew. Presidents are among the least free agents in the political world.
Should the current one ‘demise’ anytime soon, his nay-sayers would be facing his Muslim name emblazoned on half the buildings in D.C. for the next several centuries. You think they want that? They seem to insist on him producing his official birth certificate like I had to, when I was being security-cleared at near ground-level. I dunno why he doesn’t. Guess he lost it. Personally I can overlook that since so much of the Constitution has been overlooked by other presidents recently, but I’d appreciate it if he wouldn’t go around bowing deeply to Muslim potentates and psychopathic Korean dicatators. I get the strangest feeling that they are all laughing at each other, at us, and at the world of true believers in general. A certain amount of humiliation is good for the American soul, but come on. enough already. I say one should stand as near as one can get to proud and don’t apologize for your country (whatever one it may be)–all countries have done good and bad, and we should stop spreading so much democracy. It’s not a peanut butter sandwich. We must work to make things better and more joost.