Housing discrimination near Dallas?

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Straight out of Euless, Texas (which it turns out borders DFW Airport and is kind of part of Dallas) comes this discouraging news video about alleged discrimination against South Asian Americans and Muslims:

A prominent national Muslim civil rights and advocacy organization today called on the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) to investigate allegations that a Texas apartment complex had a policy of refusing to rent to Muslims or segregating them in buildings away from other tenants.

The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) called on HUD’s Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity to determine whether StoneBridge at Bear Creek apartment complex in Euless, Texas, violated federal fair housing laws.

According to an investigative media report, former leasing agents for the complex say Muslims, whom managers referred to as “curry people,” were routinely refused apartments even when there were vacancies. The leasing agents said they were told by their supervisors that they could only rent to Muslims if they were all kept in two buildings of the 21-building complex. [Link]

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p>The one thing that is obvious from the story is that when it comes to even talking about discriminations, Muslims, South Asians, Arabs, etc. are often all conflated. Any shade of brown with a “funny” name or associated with “smelly” food falls into the same category.

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p>The folks at CAIR weren’t too surprised that this type of thing happens given some Gallup Center for Muslim Studies poll data from last month:

More than 4 in 10 Americans (43%) admit to feeling at least “a little” prejudice toward Muslims — more than twice the number who say the same about Christians (18%), Jews (15%) and Buddhists (14%). The findings are based on a new Gallup Center for Muslim Studies report, “Religious Perceptions in America: With an In-Depth Analysis of U.S. Attitudes Toward Muslims and Islam,” released Thursday. [Link]

That being said, if these allegations turn out to be true it is encouraging that these two women were willing to stand up and blow the whistle on such practices. As for the Curry smell, Pavani points me to a similar incident in California a few years ago.

176 thoughts on “Housing discrimination near Dallas?”

  1. In the note it showed onscreen, it said they required double the deposit if it was an Asian?? I have to echo the imam in this one.. “wow.” This would be pretty easy to investigate – get a list of residents and see if there’s an “Asian bloc” in two units. Check the deposit history to see who was paying what. Sigh.. I thought I was living in the 21st century, but maybe I was wrong.

  2. First of all, this is not at all surprising to me. As an Indian-American, I’ve seen this, and now, I EXPECT this to be the case when I’m looking for apartments to rent. When I went to graduate school in a very Blue State, I vividly remember that the graduate residence halls were (1) furthest from the campus, (2) very expensive, (3) lowest standards of living, and (4) the supermajority were international students who were non-white. I’ll never forget this.

    Also, over the phone, I may sound like a ghori. Over the phone, I recently had one CPA-type who didn’t realize that I’m a desi that “one thing good about this place is that there are no foreigners here.” When I saw the apartment, however, he was polite, and since he didn’t own it, was making an effort for me to rent it. I didn’t rent this place, however, not because he came across as a xenophobe over the phone.

    Overall, I truly believe that having an “exotic” name is a hindrance for someone to rent out their establishment to you. I tried reporting an incidence to 2 different housing agencies here in Boston back in ’07, and because they made it so difficult to file a claim, I abandoned my efforts.

    To me, the Housing Crisis is not an economic one, but a sociological one.

  3. this sounds appalling, and obviously it’s illegal. but i do think it’s a bit rich to talk about segregation as opposed to discrimination people of various religions, races and ethnicities routinely seem to prefer to be with their own kind, or self-segregate for pragmatic reasons (ergo, muslim only public housing for retirees in the UK which caused controversy). this comes up with discrimination in indian housing in regards to non-vegetarians or non-hindus, and it happens in israel against non-jews and in parts of the muslim world against non-muslims. a post-black/white society, as the USA is now, i think our language needs to get a bit more subtle.

    interesting no mention of blacks or latinos (the latter of whom are often “brown” too). the article says “asians,” which in the USA usually means east asians.

  4. I would not be surprised if it is true.

    But this info is from CAIR and that alone makes it suspect in my eyes.

    razib on March 5, 2010 2:27 AM

    Who can forget institutional discrimination against Muslim names and non-vegetarians in Mumbai? That is far more appalling to me.

  6. boston_mahesh wrote:

    Also, over the phone, I may sound like a ghori.

    You sound like a Turkish warlord?

  8. Where do I begin with this one?

    • South Asian Muslims AND Hindus, Christians, Jains and Buddhists cook curry.
    • Arab Muslims don’t cook curry and are some of the most halal and hygienic cooks on Earth. Ever seen a peninsular Arab clean fish with lemon and in the most sanitary conditions? It’s a thing of beauty.
    • Asians cook piquant food (like masalas, curries, fish, well-done mutton, beef, etc.) but what’s the difference between that and a white person’s apartment stinking of, say, cigarette smoke, barbeque, smoked chubs and stale beer?
    • Some of Asian descent don’t cook very much at all (coughmecough) and order out or eat “American” food.
    • Are Gumbo and Jambalaya People included in this apartment complex’s fatwa? Oh, wait, most Texans hate New Orleanians, too, because we’re all poor, black welfare queens.

    But, as a friend said, this isn’t about logic or cultural enlightenment. It’s about bigotry.

  9. i think these guys deserve a drive by peanut hurling, courtesy of puli…. the puli has been getting angryer the last 2 days…I get spicy when i get angry.

  10. CAIR Is a minor player in this story, guys. It sounds like the organization saw the story that was already under investigation in Texas and just brought it to the national spotlight. The tv story makes no mention of CAIR at all.

    I have to say that I was feeling really proud of those two women who acted as whistleblowers. It makes me feel happy and hopeful that more people feel the way they do and will take a stand against incidents such as this. I wish I wasn’t surprised, but I was and maybe someday I won’t be.

  11. For those questioning CAIR – you may want to question who is questioning them. Critics of CAIR usually come from the far right Islamphobic circles.The same people who still think Obama is a secret Muslim.

  12. For those questioning CAIR – you may want to question who is questioning them. Critics of CAIR usually come from the far right Islamphobic circles.The same people who still think Obama is a secret Muslim.

    Right. This latest controversial CAIR “official” was deported by this current administration’s Federal agents. You can’t admit that perhaps CAIR is more of a problem to the Muslim community than a help.

  13. I am waiting for the inevitable losertar, er I mean, libertarian to chime in that discrimination such as this should be perfectly legal.

  15. No. Not only right wing Islamophobes. See those lawsuit links by the first newspaper.

    US Department of Justice taking them to court: TWO DEFENDANTS IN VIRGINIA JIHAD CASE PLEAD GUILTY TO WEAPONS CHARGES, WILL COOPERATE WITH ONGOING INVESTIGATION

    “In his plea agreement, Royer admitted to aiding and abetting co-defendant Masoud Khan, Yong Ki Kwon, Muhammed Aatique, and Khwaja Mahmoud Hasan in gaining entry to a terrorist terrorist training camp in Pakistan operated by Lashkar-e-Taiba where they trained in the use of various weapons, including semi-automatic pistols. Royer also admitted to helping co-defendant Ibrahim Ahmed Al-Hamdi gain entry to the Lashkar-e-Taiba camp, where Al-Hamdi received training in the use of a rocket-propelled grenade in furtherance of a conspiracy to conduct military operations against India.”

  16. Anyway. CAIR is a side issue.

    The discrimination there is naturally not right.

  17. To #6: No, silly. I’m not a Turkish warlord. I’m a jive-turkey who wars against fraudulent lords.

    By the way, the whistle-blower looks as if she’s auditioning for her own reality TV show bid. Just my Rs.2.

  18. As a practical matter, how does one get rid of the curry smell?

    Why do you think our mothers had been conditioned to light incense and burn camphor while praying every morning? Spraying Febreeze is a bit harder to ritualistically integrate into a puja, but I’m sure someone could figure it out.

  19. As a practical matter, how does one get rid of the curry smell?

    Not cook Indian food or rarely cook Indian food. No other way that I know of. You can try Yoga Fire’s suggestion. But, sadly for agnostics like me, it does not apply

  21. Not cook Indian food or rarely cook Indian food. No other way that I know of.

    eat puliogre and curd rice.

  22. Even in Mumbai,some localities still muslims are not allowed. Even actor Imran Hashmi was denied a house and it was all over news a couple of years back.

    Its unfortunate but that is truth.

  23. get rid of the curry smell

    curry smell, wth. I suppose just don’t use curry leaves and if you don’t like the Indian spices stay away from cooking it, and cook whatever smell you like. Oh and don’t eat at Indian restaurants. Since i love the smell of curry leaves and I love the taste of a lot of indian foods, its not problem for me. I’m really wondering if sometimes people talk about a “curry” smell, to try and put down a group of people with anything they can find as a tool, as opposed to being actually bothered by it. There’s plenty of other cuisines that have other smells (smells I don’t particularly like) so cook those type of foods. sheez.

  24. To keep your house, clothes, hair from smelling like Indian food get an outdoor gas stove and cook in your backyard or balcony.

  25. curry smell, wth. I suppose just don’t use curry leaves and if you don’t like the Indian spices stay away from cooking it, and cook whatever smell you like. Oh and don’t eat at Indian restaurants. Since i love the smell of curry leaves and I love the taste of a lot of indian foods, its not problem for me. I’m really wondering if sometimes people talk about a “curry” smell, to try and put down a group of people with anything they can find as a tool, as opposed to being actually bothered by it. There’s plenty of other cuisines that have other smells (smells I don’t particularly like) so cook those type of foods. sheez.

    Having grown up with it, it smells like Amma’s kitchen to me. But people who haven’t grown up with it aren’t going to have that association. It’s the same way Aussies love their vegemite while it makes other civilized peoples retch. Different strokes. And even for me who generally likes the masala smell I don’t necessarily want my house to smell like it all the time. And I certainly don’t want the smell lingering on my clothes when I go out. Cooking and eating time smells don’t need to invade the rest of my day.

  26. You can try Yoga Fire’s suggestion. But, sadly for agnostics like me, it does not apply

    I didn’t realize you had to be religious to light up incense. Who knew all those fellows in college with the fans pointed out the window were such spiritual dudes?

  27. I didn’t realize you had to be religious to light up incense. Who knew all those fellows in college with the fans pointed out the window were such spiritual dudes?

    Heh. I always associated lighting up incense with religion. Who knows. But I do dislike sometimes the smell of incense. I am strange like that.

  28. Curry-smell was an an issue in a human rights complaint in BC some years ago. A resident of a retirement home in Kamloops, BC,, complained that the curry-smell from her indian neighbour and the Building Association demanded the Indian woman stop cooking curry.

    One human rights complaint … involved a resident who felt that the smell of curry from the downstairs tenant was affecting their enjoyment of the property. The property management, rather than fixing a faulty venting system in the apartment, blamed the tenant and demanded that she stop cooking curry altogether. The court found that this was discrimination based on ancestry. (Chauhan v. Norkam Seniors Housing Cooperative (2004), 51 C.H.R.R. D/127, British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal)

    .

    The actual BC Human Rights decision is worth reading — really shows the merits of having these sort of less formal avenues for redress.

    Razib — segregation is discrimination when its involuntary and enforced by the dominant group.

  29. Heh. I always associated lighting up incense with religion. Who knows. But I do dislike sometimes the smell of incense. I am strange like that.

    I think the general idea out in the mainstream is that incense means you’re either a hippie or a pothead. (There is a lot of overlap between the two.)

    Insofar as I am religious I’m not really one for ritual or orthodoxy, so the incense is mostly just a way to deodorize and create a smokey ambiance while playing jazz music without having to light up a cigarette.

    There are a bunch of different types out there and a lot of them smell pretty foul, but how can anyone not like sandalwood?

  31. I’m an Indian landlord and I cringe everytime my Indian tenants move out. The oil vapor from deep frying and cookinghaldi literally sticks to wood kitchen cabinets and counters and is difficult to de-smell and clean. Some landlords have ripped out their cabinets and installed metal cabinets instead. Apartment walls are then washed with a solution of TSP, before painting and renting again. It’s a pain in the ass, so I can sympathise with the cathedral ceiling issue.

  32. Apartment walls are then washed with a solution of TSP, before painting and renting again. It’s a pain in the ass, so I can sympathise with the cathedral ceiling issue.

    Does anyone know how owners of high-end real-estate in India deal with this? I understand the expectation of everything being pristine aren’t as entrenched there, but the really pricey properties must have some design principles they stick to that minimize these issues. The Indians with that much money all have cooks to make home-cooked food for their houses, so it’s certain that there is plenty of cooking going on.

  33. straight up bigotry; a new and unfamiliar group rubbing up against another as it were. Italians and Irish had the same stinky food bias against them in the late 19th century in NYC and Boston when they were new immigrant groups.

    as soon people are in close proximity, cooking smells are going to infringe. i lived around the block from a fish store that was also a fry shop, and my first friday in that apartment was … horrible. then I closed the windows before I left for work friday a.m.

    as to getting rid of the curry smell, my personal experience is that cigarette smoke trumps aerosolized jeera methi, so live with or marry a Mumbaikar and you won’t notice it at all….

  34. Curry-smell was an an issue in a human rights complaint in BC some years ago.

    So bizarre. Curry is delicious. And kushbo-tastic

  35. As a Bangladeshi-American, I am VERY offended by this story. I grew up in Tucson, Arizona, and NEVER heard of housing discrimination like this. But, being angry will NOT solve anything. We need to take action by educating our family, friends, neighbors, etc. about incidents like this. I think it’s crucial to encourage kids/teens in our communities to become involved in careers that are out-of-the-box: lawyers, social workers, teachers, community organizers, etc. We need to watch out of each other.

  36. straight up bigotry; a new and unfamiliar group rubbing up against another as it were. Italians and Irish had the same stinky food bias against them in the late 19th century in NYC and Boston when they were new immigrant groups.

    I feel like that too. My mom mentioned there was one Kerala dish she wouldn’t cook when we lived in apartments b/c it has a strong smell – it was with a type of fish they use…and it does have a strong smell, which I love, but I can understand why you don’t cook that. Anybody smelled stinky tofu?…that’s also very strong and probably wouldn’t be good to cook. Some Gujarati food has a smell that is different to me and I don’t like.

    But seriously, there are so many smells that I associate with different groups of people, such as what some groups of people put in their hair, or the spice of lemongrass, that makes me retch. I don’t know what the laws are, but there are a lot of groups that whether in their daily routine, or unhygiene, or in their cuisine that leaves an odor I find horrible, and so as a landlord you’ll have to be pretty picky to find someone that doesn’t have a smell you are used to. As long as the renter doesn’t destry property or create filth that destroys the apt, than what room is there for someone not to rent b/c of a cooking smell? If I was an Indian landlord in the US, I would have to exclude certain groups of people, b/c of the potential, clean, but bad smell.

  37. It’s not discrimination. Discrimination is when Indian landlords don’t rent to blacks or maybe Hispanics. Indian slumlords rent to everyone. By the way, Chinese landlords do the same thing. This is strictly a facilities issue. Have u been to an Indian restaurant and after getting back to work, your clothes are smelling of oil and spices? That’s what happens in apartment kitchens with inadequate ventilation. Irish and Italians use herbs and not our kind of spices. That’s the difference

  38. You just don’t get do you Rahul – I for one find many smells associated with other people retching. So I can argue that I won’t rent to X group b/c they smell gross to me much of the time, and so it’s not discrimination. There are some smells, when I go to friends’ homes that I don’t like and wouldn’t want on me. I love my friends and respect people, so I can put up with it. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t smell like high heaven to me.

    And wtf are you talking about Indian landlords not renting to blacks.?…some Indians are racist, and guess what some blacks are racist too. Ever heard of whites and blacks being racist with each other – I see it and often in the workplace. I had a white classmate, who was a slumlandlord and guess who his clientele was – mostly low-income black people. In your comment you seem to be insinuating that Indians are the only group of people who can be racist and that’s just not the case. Discrimination is when Indian landlords don’t rent to blacks or maybe Hispanics lol, maybe their not renting to them b/c these Indians think they smell really bad. Could that be a valid excuse?

  39. I can understand about the facilities issue. Heavy smokers’ smoke will stain walls, and the smell will not come out of carpets necessitating replacement and repainting between tenants. I had a pressure cooker/dal mishap, with haldi infused vapor leaving a stain ruining the stucco ceiling above my stove– which I will be painting over myself before I go.

    If landlords can prohibit pets on the grounds of property damage, can they prohibit certain cooking techniques, being blind to the ethnicity of the cook?

  40. Interesting and horrible. I live in Texas…I’m not a muslim…but when I rented apts, muslim families were hands down THE best neighbors. Their children- perfectly behaved. No dogs, no blaring music, no drunken as*hole friends stumbling out of their apts causing problems. I think the only reason I escaped overt assery like this is because I was living w/my white BF at the time and they probably used positive discrimination: Gays have clean, stylish apartments!

    Obviously, though, the problem isn’t about muslims but about “brown” people w/funny accents, and possibly weird things they wear on their heads being perceived in a bigoted light and using Islam (and therefore any and everything wrong with the world) as a smokescreen. What’s I genuinely don’t understand is that I’ve never heard of a muslim committing terrorist acts in their own homes…seems like living right next door would be the safest place, but whatever.

    Sue their collective nads off, I say. They have my complete support in the matter.

  41. “Have u been to an Indian restaurant and after getting back to work, your clothes are smelling of oil and spices? That’s what happens in apartment kitchens with inadequate ventilation. Irish and Italians use herbs and not our kind of spices. That’s the difference..”

    Or maybe the difference is how people keep their kitchens? We cook Indian food daily with turmeric, oil. etc. in our house and non-Indian guests are hardly overpowered and rendered senseless by weird, exotic scents when they enter the house. Non-Indian friends, unless they’r eating out of tins, have their own issues with their kitchens. I’ve been to several non-Indian restaurants and come home with funny smells in my clothing, especially awful meat smells. The smell of rare steak cooking is revolting to many people. In college there would be a persistent meat cooking smell in the hallways of residences with kitchens. Meat/fish smells are persistent as well. The smell of cooking organs, like liver dishes, is revolting. It all depends on what you’re accustomed to and what you’re sensitive to or what you find new/distasteful to you.

  42. The smell of rare steak cooking is revolting to many people. In college there would be a persistent meat cooking smell in the hallways of residences with kitchens. Meat/fish smells are persistent as well. The smell of cooking organs, like liver dishes, is revolting. It all depends on what you’re accustomed to and what you’re sensitive to or what you find new/distasteful to you.

    My personal theory is that it’s the carpets. Smells tend to linger in the fibers and most sane people don’t shampoo their carpets that often. My house is all hardwood with tile in the kitchen and smells just don’t stick around for very long.

  43. “My personal theory is that it’s the carpets.”

    Could be. I abhor wall-to-wall carpeting in any climate (although I understand why it would be popular in colder climates), and was amazed to find people who had it in their bathrooms!

  44. It seems some of you are just getting worked up when this is just an issue of a landlord gettting fed up of stripping the apartment clean. Try owning and renting properties and see how difficult it can be. The worst Indian tenants to have are South Indians. They use mustard oil exclusively in cooking and that is the most difficult to clean off. Even Punjabis can’t stand the smell of mustard oil. So my policy is that if a South Indian moves out, I try to rent to another South Indian. This way, I don’t have to super clean and desanitize the place because the smell is comforting from one South Indian to another.

  45. Rahul you make no sense and I believe you are not South Asian. So you don’t like mustard seed oil. I don’t like X,X, and X smells from someone’s cooking or hair products. It’s a stench that stays. I also don’t like X, X, X b/c they usually don’t wash properly. If I’m running a hotel and I don’t allow X b/c he/she smells and most people from X group I’ve met smells, than that’s okay b/c it’s a problem to have to clean up and clean the odor of X and X. Also X, X, and X have a high propensity for crime and they “look” the part – I don’t want to waste money that my apt or hotel room, will be rented out to a drug dealer who brings in prostitutes; it’s all economical and convenience – hence I don’t rent to X and X b/c stats and my experience show they are high on crime and also they leave a bad smell.

    Sometimes it is sour grapes. When you can’t put some people down b/c of facts you start with excuses. I’ve read so many histories of Jewish families in Europe and how they were always labeled stinky among other things. A lot of times these attitudes came about b/c the families were economical, and/or wealthy, and/or had kept to themselves with their own culture. You have only to read the experiences of the low-income tenant housing in present-day cities and also the experiences of immigrants in the early 1900s and their housing restrictions and stereotypes to understand this whole thing happens as a cycle. You have only to read attitdues of whites on blacks before housing discrimination was outlawed to hear the word, dirty, stinky, brings crime – so “it makes sense we don’t want to rent to them”.

    Thank goodness for civil rights and fair housing laws – what you are doing Rahul, if you are not renting available apartments b/c of someone’s ethnic background seems to be illegal. Oh, and yeah my family has commercial property they own as well as a house they regularly rent out.

  46. Look PS, we own 30+ unit complexes in Silicon Valley. I don’t need to bore you, but I’m citing actual experiences. Indians have their curry “smell”. Vietnamese and Filipinos have their fermented fish sauce (nam pla/patis) smells while cooking their favorite dishes. I’ve actually had Vietnamese request apartments that didn’t have curry smells. On the other side, I’ve had Indians refuse to move into apartments with fish sauce smells. Whites do their barbecuing on the patio, so the smell drifts out into the open air. After a while, it becomes tedious and expensive to scrub out entire apartments. As a landlord, what would you do? That right, move the Indians into Indian apartments and move the Vietnamese and Filipinos into their apartments. By the way, Filipinos and Vietnamese have very similar cuisines. So it’s never been a problem between those two. It’s only been a problem between South Indians and other Indians.

  47. Just returned from a 2 week business trip to Bangalore and a 2 day vacation to Mysore. The discrimination against Indians (especially south Indians) is a lot more evident there. Bangalore and Mysore hotels are notorious for mistreating (neglecting) Indian customers. I was paying close to 100$ (4500 Rs.) per night and took me a good week to be acknowledged by the staff. A white, black or a Chinese customer would get the royal treatment the day he arrived.

    In a Mysore restaurant attached to an expensive hotel, I waited for 45 mins. for a table and eventually went to an other restaurant.

    But in their defense, I did not use the expensive hotel amenities like the foreigners did. I called the local cabs or even took autos rather than use the taxi services (at a much higher rate) provided by the hotel. I would walk over to a local bar (100 Rs..) rather than pay 250 Rs. for the beer.

  48. Apartments do not rent to people with pets. Other objectionable odors could be also be grounds for not renting. This situation is unfortunately one where they have stretched the objection to cooking odors to discriminating against a group of people. Will have to see how this plays out.

    And about CAIR … based on on their long list of questionable characters in high positions, its like having NAMBLA coming forward to defend children against exploitation. Not someone whose help one would really want.

  49. Rahul, generally mustard seeds are used & not mustard oil. For most part, ordinary vegetable/groundnut oil is used. So what is your excuse now? I agree with abhi, it is better to not read the comments section.

    In Bangalore, some of the apartments are not given for rent to singles. Single guys/gals bring lots of friends & make lots of noise is their reasoning

  50. It seems some of you are just getting worked up when this is just an issue of a landlord gettting fed up of stripping the apartment clean. Try owning and renting properties and see how difficult it can be. The worst Indian tenants to have are South Indians. They use mustard oil exclusively in cooking and that is the most difficult to clean off. Even Punjabis can’t stand the smell of mustard oil. So my policy is that if a South Indian moves out, I try to rent to another South Indian. This way, I don’t have to super clean and desanitize the place because the smell is comforting from one South Indian to another.

    Awesome you don’t live in Virginia.