She writes plays, directs and acts in comedy mime skits, moshes in punk pits and reads lips. Sabina England is a 20-something Midwest girl that fits no typecast. I stumbled across Sabina on twitter as the @DeafMuslim when all Taqwacore scenesters would retweet her plays and videos. I was already curious about the Deaf Desi community since meeting a few in DC, but was even more intrigued after checking out her site, her comedy skits and reading the stories and plays on her blog. How could I not be? I sat down (virtually) for a fascinating interview where she talks about acting as Helen Keller in a high school play, to having a Mohawk and wearing hijab, to prejudices against the deaf community by fellow Desis.
You have written a few plays, with some relatively controversial content. How do people react to your plays?
It varies. No matter what Muslims do, every time a Muslim makes a film or writes a play or whatever about Pakistanis or Indians or w/e who aren’t “typical” they still get hate about it. It makes me so mad. Some Muslims ask me why do I write about “Muslim whores” and I’m like, why the fuck not? They exist. My sister hates my plays and always complains why am I “weird” and why can’t I write “normal” plays. Some feminists are offended by my plays, but I get mostly great feedback from women about my plays because I tend to write strong, interesting female characters.
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I don’t have any of my plays on videos; my videos are just comedy sketches. They’re very different from my plays, my plays are very dark; I call them “tragicomedies”. I had a play run in London on late September to early October for 3 weeks. The next project I have, my play (the same play, called How the Rapist was Born) will be staged at East 15 in England on May 2010 with a different director and cast. I am trying to get my plays produced in NYC, but the truth is NYC’s theater scene isn’t as vibrant as London so I’ve had my eyes and heart set on London for a long time. Recently I read an article some weeks ago, a lot of critics and journalists have declared that this is The Golden Age of British theater right now in London. I want to be part of it. Did you live in England?
Yes, I spent my childhood in England, but spent my teenage years in the States and went to high school in the Midwest, so I had a British childhood, but then I became American.
I feel like plays have an audio element that as a deaf person it would be hard to grapple with and in a play, deaf people would not be able to hear dialogue. How did you get involved with plays?
I had always been a very lonely person since I was a child. I had gone to deaf schools as a youth and these were some of my happiest times – I had friends and I had a great blast. But after I turned 13, a deaf school decided that I was “ready” to go into a mainstream hearing public school so I graduated from the deaf school and went onto a hearing public junior high school. It was HELL. ‘Being ready’ means that I’d become good at reading lips, I had great reading and writing skills.
I was lonely and alienated as hell. A drama teacher took notice of me. She took me under her wing and encouraged me to enroll in her drama class. She opened me up and introduced me to many plays. The following year in 8th grade, I won the leading role of Helen Keller in The Miracle Worker a play by William Gibson. I really connected to Helen Keller, her life story was so touching and inspiring.
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Ever since then I’ve been in love with theater. But it was all attributed to the fact that I had always loved old films and vaudeville shows and circus shows as a kid so I was naturally attracted to theater.
Now that you are older and writing your own plays, do you find yourself writing for the deaf community?
I really would like to write a play for the deaf community but I don’t know what, when, or how. I’m not even sure if any of my plays could be performed in sign language because the dialogue is so heavy on language – you have to say it out loud, you can’t sign it. I read a lot of books and plays and watched so many films as a child and teenager, so I was heavily influenced by language, dialogue, and words.
Don’t deaf people dialogue too or do they communicate the heavy topics differently?
Well, sign language and dialogue (as in spoken word) are two very different things. My plays, such as How the Rapist was Born, or A Black Whore A Jewish Philosopher and a Muslim Terrorist, won’t be good in sign language because both plays have a strong emphasis on dialogue, repeated words, and chants that are very theatrical. I’d have to write a totally different play that could be performed in sign language, without emphasis on the language (and wording) of the dialogue.
Totally. So let’s talk about another community – the punk one. I kinda want to ask what your favorite punk band was growing up but not sure if that’s appropriate…
I loved The Clash, the Sex Pistols, and X Ray Spex. I listened to music with my hearing aids, but I was more attracted to the lyrics, to the visual elements of punk culture and the punk politics and gender issues along with it. I can hear music okay, but I can’t really make out the words. For other punks, they were in it for the music. Not me. For me, going to shows, it’s more about socializing and being with my friends and meeting other people, having a good time and bonding. it’s not really about the music for me at all, you know?
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I was always a feminist, and I think being a feminist pushed me into punk rock at an early age. I liked the anger and the “fuck you” attitude of punk rock. I loved the independence and fierce attitude of punk females like punk vocalists in all male bands.
Right…who were you favorite female punks?
I was never a girly girl and I never liked girly girls at all. Poly Styrene from X Ray Spex and Siouxsie and Beki Bondage. I was also in love with strong female characters in films, like Sarah Connor in Terminator 2 Judgment Day. I admired females in Hollywood such as Lucille Ball, who is still one of my biggest inspirations.
So did you have a lot of punk friends in England or the midwest?
I got into punk rock when I lived in the Midwest. But as a child in England in the 80s and early 90s I had seen some punks around in London and other cities, and their style always attracted me. I knew it was something I wanted to be part of it.
And the Mohawk, when did that happen?
I had a Mohawk for 2 years, it wasn’t too long ago, about 3 years ago. It was cool, I’m gonna grow my hair long again so I can shave my sides and have a Mohawk again. It was so weird, though, I always got different reactions and treatments from people. So in a way, having a Mohawk taught me about people. I had hot pink hair once and my father was furious, he wouldn’t speak to me for 3 weeks. I told him to get over it. I can’t stand that patronizing bullshit from parents, especially Desi or Muslims. They are making judgmental remarks about people who dye their hair or get tattoos or wear revealing clothes. What the fuck does it matter to them? It’s their lives and their bodies, it doesn’t hurt anyone else.
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I also used to wear hijab, too, you know. For about 3 years in the late 90s to early 2000s.
And then?
Well one day, I had a wake-up call from a goth girl who was sitting next to me. She was the only one in the entire college who was nice to me, while everyone else were extremely nasty toward me. I stared at her hair and her outfit and then I thought to myself, “what the fuck happened to me? I used to be a punk and now I’ve become this?” and then I realized how wearing the hijab is such an artificial thing to do. I don’t want to piss off any hijabis here. But I truly felt that wearing the hijab was a slap in the face for women’s individuality and their bodies. Someone once said that wearing hijab is saying “YES, we women are sex objects, so we HAVE to cover ourselves to protect ourselves from men’s lustful glances!”and when I sat next to the goth girl I thought about how some Muslims would call her a “whore” because she was wearing a short skirt. But she was such a nice girl. And I felt dirty. I felt like a hypocrite. I still wore hijab for 1 more year after that goth girl incident and then I took it off.
Was it liberating to take off your hijab?
Actually, yes. When I wore the hijab, sometimes I was under the pressure to be a saint-like a proper Muslim who had to be polite and be on her best behavior all the time. Some people said that we hijabis were REPRESENTING Muslims and we had to be on our best behavior. That was a lot of pressure. When I took it off, I no longer felt that way. When I wore hijab, whenever I’d cuss or make sex jokes or whatever, people were shocked and looked confused. They would say, “Why are you talking this way? I thought you’re a good girl.” I hate that shit. Hijabis should be allowed to cuss and talk about sex and watch porn if they want to. They shouldn’t have to be saints for everyone else while they all go get drunk and have sex! Hijabis are humans, too.
How was your family through all this?
I guess it’s weird in my family. I never really felt belonged in my family at all. I was the black sheep and I still feel like the black sheep. My parents wanted the best for me, so they put me in a Deaf school at a very young age, because my dad was determined that I don’t become “deaf and dumb” like a doctor in England said I would be when they first found out I was Deaf. I am definitely grateful to my parents for putting me in Deaf schools and demanding the best from me, but all the same, I don’t feel belonged at all.
They never learned sign language? How did you communicate with your family?
No, my parents don’t know any sign languages. It’s frustrating. It doesn’t bother me, but I feel more at home with Deaf people than with my own family. My sister knows the ABCs of ASL so sometimes she’d finger spell for me. I read lips so I read my parents’ lips. I read everyone’s lips.
But wow… as a little kid? That must have been tough.
Yeah, I guess so. I never really thought about it. I was angrier about being alienated by Desi people and by Muslims. At least my parents were trying to deal with me as a kid, while Desi and Muslims shunned me or they treated me badly. Desi people, whether Muslim or Hindu, always treated me like I was a retard. They would stare at me. THAT kind of stare. With Muslims, it was the same thing, whether they were Desi, Arab, Black, or whatever. The first time I remember being treated kindly by Muslims, were white Irish Muslim converts who used to be Catholic. They actually taught me to read Arabic.
And then you mentioned when you would go to India it was more of the same too…
Yeah. My mother explained to me that Deafness (along with other disabilities) were seen as curses, afflictions, or whatever, in some circles in Indian society. But my relatives in India, they were always so kind and loving toward me. But these days, it is changing. I hear that access for Deaf people in India is much better. Probably because Indian society is experiencing a huge economic boom.
So there’s no particular internet community for Deaf Desis?
I was friends with a Deaf Indian Hindu student at college, but we didn’t talk much because she was a college senior when I was a freshman. I never really got to know her well. I really don’t know. I do talk to some Deaf people online but it’s just a large Deaf community online. The Deaf world is VERY wired.
To read the rest of the interview, check out the full interview over at the Taqwacore Webzine. To follow Sabina’s work, check out her YouTube channel for her comedy mime sketches and her blog for screenplays and stories. If in the UK in May, you can check out her play at East 15. And of course, follow her tweets at www.twitter.com/DeafMuslim.
AWESOME!
About damn time! I think I’ve seen her comments on Sepia Mutiny, Racialicious, Feministing, etc. I’ve read her work and I love her strong female characters. They’re interesting and not all perfect. I actually really admire her.
Wow, was unfamiliar with her and have been going to the same school she went to … could have seen some of her plays. Will have to ask some of my friends in the progressive/punk/DIY community if they knew her. Found an article about her showing her rocking out at an unfortunately now defunct info shop / concert space that I never made it to, which had an awesome name: No Coast. Fitting for us in the middle of the Midwest. Badass interview, by the way. The line about Muslim whores reminded me of this interview Philip Roth did with Isaac Bashevis Singer, in which the latter recalled getting shit from community members, I think back in Poland, for writing about Jewish thieves and prostitutes. “Shall I write about Spanish thieves and Spanish prostitutes? I write about the thieves and prostitutes that I know.”
@DeafMuslim was one of the first people I followed on Twitter. I’ve always admired her spirit. Her story is fascinating. Thanks for bringing it to us, Taz.
Glad to hear a Muslimaa who did in fact wear hijab at some point, admitting to this.
Usually what you get is the apologists.
Excellent post, Taz.
Oh man – she’s awesome!
I am tired of the words muslim + punk. Why cant we just live our lives without being labelled one thing or the other? I find her overly aggressive. She’s definitely got a chip on her shoulder. Everyone wearing jeans is a sign of liberalism but muslim women wearing hijab is a slap in the face of womens individuality?? Whats individual about wearing jeans or tank tops?? I dont get it. To use her words, it’s their (muslim) womens choice if they want to wear the hijab who are you to judge?? She seems kind of confused. Generally women who decide to wear hijab ARE conservative so hearing them swear or talk about sex WOULD be odd. Wearing the hijab is a SYMBOL of the struggle to be a better muslim. It doesnt automatically make you pious or untouchable and if some stupid desis or muslims hold hijabi women to a different standard, then they should be ignored. Maybe when she’s older and a little more mature (hopefully) she’ll better understand the issue. Right now she’s just seems to be reacting to PERCEIVED wrongs. Grow up little girl.
Thanks for posting this, Taz!
What made me really sad was when she talked about how badly the Desi community treated her while she was growing up. That is indeed sad that our community is still so backward about dealing with certain very common things, like being deaf (along with other common things) and ostracizes people for being different. I hope that her success with her plays will increase some awareness.
hijabis watching porn would be an interesting independent film.
As a male I could reverse that and say that it also makes us men into nothing more than horn dogs with nothing better to do than look at women. I have a lot of respect for the women who wear hijab, (by their own choice) as it shows their will power to not fit in. Things may vary based on where everyone lives, but where I’m at, a person wearing hijab is showcasing quite a bit of individuality compared to her surroundings. I believe IF it a personal choice than it is a commendable thing to do. In the US women have the power to choose how they dress, hijab or no hijab. It’s a different story for other parts of the world where women are degraded/punished for going sans hijab, but in the US who are we to mock someone’s modesty?
Despite running the risk of being percieved as being insensitive, a hearing impaired/deaf person (especially one who COMPLAINS about being mistreated) should think twice before making generalizations.
“Things may vary based on where everyone lives, but where I’m at, a person wearing hijab is showcasing quite a bit of individuality compared to her surroundings. I believe IF it a personal choice than it is a commendable thing to do. In the US women have the power to choose how they dress, hijab or no hijab.”
If an organization chooses to not allow hijab for whatever reason then is that justified ? IMO hijab has more to do with religion and an individual’s desire to abide by it rather than a tool of self expression. If hijab is a fashion accessory then it would be difficult to argue against a ban on it.
I’ve only skimmed through the Koran but never actually studied it, but as far as I remember it only really tells women to cover their heads and the tone is basically that it was the minimum standard for dressing modestly at the time. Who knows, maybe showing off how nice your hair is was a sign of vanity in a time before conditioner?
Maybe I just haven’t read deeply enough, but I really don’t think all the ideas about temptation and feminine oppression were really salient at the time nor was it really thought of as a symbol of being Muslim. It was just a sartorial decision not unlike the bindhi Hindu women wear.
“I am tired of the words muslim + punk. Why cant we just live our lives without being labelled one thing or the other? I find her overly aggressive. She’s definitely got a chip on her shoulder. Everyone wearing jeans is a sign of liberalism but muslim women wearing hijab is a slap in the face of womens individuality?? Whats individual about wearing jeans or tank tops?? I dont get it. To use her words, it’s their (muslim) womens choice if they want to wear the hijab who are you to judge?? She seems kind of confused. Generally women who decide to wear hijab ARE conservative so hearing them swear or talk about sex WOULD be odd. Wearing the hijab is a SYMBOL of the struggle to be a better muslim. It doesnt automatically make you pious or untouchable and if some stupid desis or muslims hold hijabi women to a different standard, then they should be ignored. Maybe when she’s older and a little more mature (hopefully) she’ll better understand the issue. Right now she’s just seems to be reacting to PERCEIVED wrongs. Grow up little girl.”
Meriam, no, YOU are the confused one. Hijabis are supposed to be conservative? HA! I know plenty of liberal hijabis who are feminists and progressive, they make their own rules and still proudly wear hijab.
Meriam, it’s people like you that I can’t stand. Peope like you who try to dictate to us about how we should practice our religion. Why don’t you BUTT out of people’s lives and live your own life.
YOU need to grow up.
to everyone else:
thank you for your nice words. I want to thank Taz for giving me the publicity for my works, much appreciated!
-Sabina
Naya Chand, Sabina was giving her personal opinion based on her personal experience with hijab.
While I appreciate that wearing the hijab could be individual choice (as well as a societal/religious imposition), as a man, it makes me uncomfortable interacting with hijabis, as it seems to reduce all men to sexual beings who must be fended off and kept at bay. A man could wear a sign around his neck saying “women, please don’t look at me in a sexual way, I am a modest man”, but that would be rather silly I think. I remember once my consultant and I went to see a patient. The patient, an elderly Pakistani lady was quite interactive and tolerated the examination rather well. Her very British daughter in law, in a full hijab, however refused to shake hands with the consultant as he was leaving. And this was a kindly old doctor in his 60s. He was visibly hurt, though he didn’t mention it. There are are many factors which operate when we live in a society and interact with it. We have a lot of freedom, but we also have to play by some rules, which determine how we would in turn be treated by others. It can’t be a one way traffic. Sabina seems to be be a bright young lady. Best of luck to her for the future.
I had hot pink hair once and my father was furious, he wouldn’t speak to me for 3 weeks.
Deafening silence eh. No offence, but this is funny!
and Meriam you write I am tired of the words muslim + punk. Why cant we just live our lives without being labelled one thing or the other?
That is why it is muslim+punk. Get it. You would if you removed the chip off your shoulder.
Very impressed Sabina.
do you feel the same about hindu women who cover their hair with their pallus?
She is the sexy.
If I meet such a woman in rural Haryana or Rajasthan, I would sympathise with her. I know it is a rhetorical question, but a lot also depends on what else she does besides just covering her hair (A lot of people wear hats which cover their hair). I live in the West. If I meet such a woman at my workplace, who expects the freedom and lifestyle of her adopted country, but insists on a full pallu etc, I would probably give her a wide berth. It is not about the religion. It is about a state of mind.
Being as how this only really happens inside temples or with grandmotherly old women, the situations aren’t really analogous.
I can likewise attest that I’m never really sure what the norms for interaction with acquaintances in hijab. There is always a bit of awkwardness in the physical contact department. Do I shake hands? Can I offer a hug to say “bye?” Normally I can just pick the tolerance levels for these things up from body language, but for some reason the presence of that little piece of fabric makes me really self-conscious about saying or doing anything that could be interpreted as “forward.” So I just end up opting for no touching and limited direct eye contact to play it as safe as possible.
What do you know? I guess it is pretty effective at deterring any hanky-panky.
I feel the Hijab is a cultural crutch, not a religious symbol. I’m tired of being tired of Hijab-politicking. I’m tired of anarchism and punk, frankly as methods and aesthetics of self-expression, but people should do it anyway though i would challenge them to transcend for punk rock aesthetic is also, like the hijab, a crutch. Qu’ran beaters and Bible lords and Rastas love their old testament revisionings…it all comes from the same source….so does punk rock…I say I burn out the impurities at the roots….starting with men.
On the other hand, the oversexual over-punk rockedness of desis is sort of played out. Is Sabina not worthy of being chronicled? Certainly her story should be told, but I think for desi women who are deviating from the norm who are hungry for a role model or someone to relate to, there are other interesting things to spotlight. Sexual liberation is dead. in the 80’s it was all about “screw because it’s fun/screw cause you want to” and ignoring the clap and HIV. It shoudl have been different. It should only have been about the music as far as punk rock is concerned. Joy Division is my favorite band. And they’re so post-punk they they hate their own sex. So do I. I hate my phallus because I love the women of the left bank. Or at least the idea. In practice it’s like Bakunin and Proust making republican love children as the true annexation of anarchist politic and ritualistic overflow. It’s so Lacanian, it’s self-explanatory.
But the only thing a woman should ever cover is her ass, metaphorically speaking so no man or women for that matter can try to drop names and make words rhyme.
Sabina, you are gifted! Taz, thank you for writing this article. Sabina has a great future ahead. Now I’ll know to watch for her.
Totally read that as phallus. covers head in shame.
are you kidding me??? image with 2 secs of google search.
Ha. Ha. You may not be too far off in that.
Yes. In places like Rajasthan, U.P. and Haryana, it is not uncommon to see women covering their entire faces with their pallus, and even sitting on the floor/ground when elder male members of the family come into the room.
I find it shameful, degrading, and humiliating.
Why all these strictures and taboos around human beings with ovaries in “traditional” cultures?
Like, wassup widdat?
Seriously.
what does freedom and lifestyle of adopted country mean?
PS: Sabina, you have a beautiful face and remind of that actress – um, whatsername? Konkona Sen Sharma.
if you must know, there once was a man from nantucket...
Take off that hijab (or pallu) and you shall know….
Totally gave Pardesi Gori an opening for her patented rants. Ritually sets self on fire.
Those of us with internet access don’t spend much time interacting with women from the back country. Different worlds you see?
Firstly, careful with that brush there. It’s awfully broad. Many of us in the South were historically Matriarchal. Even my staunchly religious “traditional” aunt isn’t shy about arguing with any men who rub her the wrong way. The people in these traditional cultures are actually human beings with everything that implies. Which means they have their own opinions on things that they routinely express. This tends to get lost of people who essentialize reified notions of “tradition” and “culture.”
Secondly, there are strictures and taboos around human beings without ovaries too. It’s just not fashionable to put a spotlight on them.
convenient demarcations from a cultural conservative!
Fond of ascribing labels are we?
of course. when they’re true. and consistent.
I am reminded of Lao Tzu’s proverb about fixating on the finger pointing out the moon rather than the moon itself.
wow, you’re so deep and shit.
Sabina – “Hijabis are supposed to be conservative? HA! I know plenty of liberal hijabis who are feminists and progressive, they make their own rules and still proudly wear hijab.”
Exactly. So why didnt you follow the liberal progressive feminist hijabis?? My problem with you and others like you is your dishonesty. I would respect you if you just admitted you stopped wearing the hijab because you didnt WANT to wear it anymore. I can respect that. What I hate is supposedly liberal/enlightened people trying to give their actions a more meaningful angle than they deserve. If there are nice goth girls then there are bad goth girls and likewise good/bad hijabis. You choose to focus on the negative because as a “punk” you have some stupid desire to be angry at something/anything at all times. Whatever. Oh and for the record, I am not a hijabi or a namazi.
I am not dictating anything to anyone. YOU’RE the public figure! I merely made an observation about you because you’ve put yourself out there. If you cant take the criticism – quit. It’s hilarious how you think everyone who agrees with you is an angel and anyone who disagrees is a dictator. It’s the textbook definition of being childish 🙂 Please spare me your fumbling adolescence.
not a FASHION statement, just a statement.
Because she didn’t WANT to! And she felt that for her and for many women, it is indeed REGRESSIVE! She is not the ONLY woman who thinks so either. She is entitled to her OPINION, just as much as you or I are!
Yeah, and, so? Am I supposed to be in DENIAL over many of the regressive and gender-biased traditions of my ancestral land just because some non-Desis also rightly see them and call them out?
i dont like comedy, b/c its happy and im sad ):
Meriam:
“Exactly. So why didnt you follow the liberal progressive feminist hijabis?? My problem with you and others like you is your dishonesty. I would respect you if you just admitted you stopped wearing the hijab because you didnt WANT to wear it anymore. I can respect that. What I hate is supposedly liberal/enlightened people trying to give their actions a more meaningful angle than they deserve. If there are nice goth girls then there are bad goth girls and likewise good/bad hijabis. You choose to focus on the negative because as a “punk” you have some stupid desire to be angry at something/anything at all times. Whatever. Oh and for the record, I am not a hijabi or a namazi.
I am not dictating anything to anyone. YOU’RE the public figure! I merely made an observation about you because you’ve put yourself out there. If you cant take the criticism – quit. It’s hilarious how you think everyone who agrees with you is an angel and anyone who disagrees is a dictator. It’s the textbook definition of being childish 🙂 Please spare me your fumbling adolescence.”
I never said anyone who agrees with me is an angel, or anyone who disagrees with me is a dictator. Stop making up words that I never said. I was being honest about why I took off the hijab. You don’t have to like what I said, that’s fine, but don’t call me a liar. You have no f–king idea what I was going through when I decided to take off my hijab, you don’t know me, and you weren’t there. So why don’t you shut your ignorant mouth?
By the way, in your first comment, you belittled me by calling me “little girl,” which is such a typical, sexist thing for un-intelligent people to do–just like what you did. I am 27 years old, for the record. You are a very sad, pathetic person and I feel sorry for you.
I understand that not everyone will agree with me or like my stuff, I expect that. But don’t call me a liar, don’t put words in my mouth, and don’t call me a little girl again.
Keep hating, Meriam. Your green envy has never been so bright.
-Sabina
Meriam, herlo, Sabina,
Play nice. Mean personal attacking comments are going to be deleted. That’s not cool, especially if you are hiding behind an anonymous handle. If you wanna fight, take it off the comment thread and take it outside.
Hindu elitism anyone? How arrogant and dismissive of you. This contempt for hindus who live in the “back country” (the majority of hindus of all castes) from the macaulayite english speaking class is probably the single biggets reason for India’s intractable backwardness, weakness and poverty.
sorry i forgot to mention that what i was quoting was from HER twitter. but sorry for causing any problems.
Fuck me. There is so much shit in this thread. This is a shitstorm. This is a bucket of shit.
Here is more:
I’m not really sure why you’re calling out Sabina, SM Intern. I’m having trouble noticing anything spiteful or malicious in her posts above. Her anger seems concise and justified.
Secondly, and tangentially related is Vik’s post on the Macauylite Hindus. I completely agree with your sense of outrage and your placement of it in intellectual terms. Yoga Fire’s sentiment is basically the nastiest, grotesque, racist, classist, sexist, bigoted, imperialist sentiment you can have without being, uh, Winston Churchill, or Macauly himself. But if I had to point the finger at someone supremely responsible for “India’s intractable backwardness, weakness and poverty,” I’d point it at the crackers themselves instead of one of their chumchas. Self-loathing Indians are not the root of India’s problems, or even Indian immigrants’ problems. Even self-loathing Indians who identity as self-respecting Indians who then loathe Indians they find not self-respecting because these Indians are not loathing and therefore self-loathing enough are not the problem. The problem isn’t that we aren’t hating each other enough.
Also, (maybe for SM Intern) how on earth do you put quote tags in your posts here?
I said we don’t typically interact with them. You mean to tell me you do on a regular basis? Do you have contempt for all the people you don’t interact with? I’ll bet every Yurt in Mongolia is positively buckling under the weight of all that contempt they must suffer from. Unless you’re working for one of the organizations that does rural development in India, like Akshaya Patra or Indicorps, I reckon you do not. So what exactly is getting your knickers in a twist?
Let me break it down: *Lupus says he’s made uncomfortable when he sees women wearing the hijab. *Pallo asks if he is likewise made uncomfortable when Hindu women cover their heads. *I say that the situations aren’t analogous because the Hindu women we interact with don’t typically cover their heads. *Pallo links to a picture of a Rajastani villager. *I demonstrate that my point still holds since Rajastani and Punjabi villagers don’t tend to travel in the same kinds of social circles as people who would be made uncomfortable by a hijab.
Really? Because I’d say the root of India’s problem’s is Indians who are too busy finding things to feel slighted over or to bother building anything constructive.
[blockquote]blah blah[/blockquote]
Only replace the brackets with the greater than and less than signs.
Clearly, Mr. Fire, it’s not what you present but in how you present it. Don’t be coy, you know the science: You typically come across as an armchair acharya/ministerial councilman/elder statesman whose sole purpose is to make sure that if people are trampling Hinduism/reason, they’re doing it to your specifications. Additionally, the volume of your posts are indicative of perpetuating an(Sic) ubiquitous presence bathed in unintentional cacemphaton. Because it’s a dying world.
But look brother, we know you’re a learned bloke, but your obiter dictum of the saffron sort (not necessarily a bad thing) is rubbing these secularists and PC hungry liberals the wrong way. I personally like your alacrity and Lincoln-Douglas objicient style retorts. Misdirected backlash is a sign of begrudging respect from young Heglians and occidentalists worldwide so if you’re going to play the coy card, make sure that the ochlocracy is sated with a burfee styled quick jab to the neck. Everyone wants to claim co-authorship to the Puranas, but few know how to rock the intonational ephrenomic exertions. Skinheads may claim the blue collar, but blood is still red even if your skin is brown. Desi skins unite!
having said that, I still think that the hijab debate is stupid. hijabs are a crutch. so is punk. There’s a hole in your mind where nothing exists except fear and loathing of the strange but true, facts that defy your inner intelligence, like man kills himself for something to do.
I have some family members living in villages back in India. I remember as a child visiting them and pallus were definetly pulled over heads when elder men entered the room, squatting on floor ensued. My mother did not do any of this and I remember their being a mood of “she’s a foreigner now, she doesn’t know our customs”. She was considered “uncultured” in their ways. I think many Desis have family members that are living a wide variety of lifestyles simultaneously. Some of our relatives live in metros, some in villages, and the customs are different in each. Though in “traditional” and dare I say “backwards” families, the pallus will be pulled over head even in the metros.
It is indeed disturbing. Perhaps moreso than the burka because educated Hindus like to present themselves as “progressive” and “forward thinking”.