I have been struggling and failing to find an appropriate way to respond to Glenn Beck’s latest insanity. MediaMatters has the video and the almost unbelievable quotes, which about 1.2 billion people are likely to deem to be offensive and tasteless, from a recent Beck broadcast:
For those not able to stomach watching the actual video, the choice quotes are as follows:
And also, in our research that it took us, oh about 40 seconds, we figured out that some of that money here in America winds up in the pocket of a skilled doctor that helps off-set the 20 years of schooling that he endured and the loans he took out. And – you’re not going to believe this one, Karlyn – some of that money seems to go to the 1 million SEIU workers in the healthcare industry that make slightly more here than in India. Because, you know, they have an American lifestyle, maybe a couple of cars, great union benefits, and homes with something that we in America like to call flush toilets. (link)
Quite separately from the nasty slur about India in this quote, Beck’s logic completely escapes me. If anyone can actually make sense of what he is trying to say, I would be curious to hear it. I think this is an elaborate way of saying Americans shouldn’t do medical tourism in India, but rather pay premium rates for procedures not covered by insurance, because some of the money they might be giving a surgeon will somehow go to SEIU workers? (But what’s all this about loans and so on? Is he aware that Indian students bring millions upon millions of dollars into American higher education?)
But of course, the real stunner in this ‘bit’ from Beck is the following:
I don’t want a discounted doctor. I don’t want discounted wages. I don’t want any of this stuff. If I wanted to live in India, I’d live in India. I want not the Indian lifestyle, I want the American lifestyle. I’m sure, no offense to India, I’m sure it’s beautiful and everything. I’ve heard especially this time of year, especially by the – you know that one big river they have there that sounds like a disease? Come on, it does. I mean, if somebody said, ‘I’m sorry, you have a really bad case of Ganges,’ you’d want Cipro.” (link)
While the earlier rant directed at medical tourism, incoherent as it was, had some salience to the health care debate, this bit of assholery is just utterly gratuitous.
I’m looking forward to the day this guy falls back into obscurity. A few months ago, left-leaning activists launched a campaign to get Beck’s advertisers to pull back from his show. While they were successful, it hasn’t done anything to slow him down. Beck’s provocations are working: his rating continue to be high, no matter how many times he’s mocked by comedians and spat at by bloggers. It’s hard for me personally to get newly outraged when this guy has been, for months, comparing President Obama to Hitler and the like.
Still, the level of offense these statements could provoke in India itself, if the comments end up being covered in the Indian media (hint hint), could make things interesting for Beck. (Here’s a tip for any Indian journalists reading this: Rupert Murdoch, who owns Fox News, also owns Star TV… Hmm…)
Yes, because the measure of a man is how much money he has.
“He is rich, famous, hugely successful at what he does, and he looks like he is having a lot of fun. How about you?”
I am well-off, successful and happy, having more than enough for my needs and wants and those of others who sometimes needs help. I’m not greedy. I’m also having fun. I’m not famous, but his type of fame I can do without. How about you?
“hugely successful at what he does”
What exactly does he do?
“…doesn’t seem to have done him much good.”
I didn’t mean done him much good materially. Anyways, when I first saw the headline “Beck….” I thought it was the singer Beck, so perhaps he needs to become a little more famous to dislodge the singer from the minds of some.
“What exactly does he do?”
Channels white working-class grievance, whether real or imagined.
I did the same.
“Sooooooooooooooooy un perdedor. . .”
A lot of what he said is false or extremely generalized. chew on this –
I really could go on, but it isn’t worth my time. Fox news and Glenn Beck are a waste of life – but I suppose everyone is allowed to their opinions. I just don’t have to agree with them.
I can’t think of too many people in India who either know who Mr Beck is, and/or give a toss about what he has to say about India. So not a chance of getting anyone’s inner apparel in a twist.
Regarding his malice, he is feeding the insecurities of his target audience. It is quite clear that it is not his deep personal belief that flush toilets do not exist outside the U.S. He just wants to convince his listeners that they don’t. It is pointless to deconstruct and refute his rant. It is meant to provoke and titillate baser feelings, not the intellect. Sadly, the fact that he believes that such opinions would enhance his popularity say a lot about those whom he addresses.
Sen, I don’t think PS was boasting. She was stating a fact. There are many reasons Indian doctors go to the US, professional opportunity being one of them. And that is nothing to be ashamed of. It is a free world.Isn’t that how America was built? The point is that the US (and also the British) healthcare systems have a very significant proportion of doctors who have qualified in India. They pass the entry examinations to practice in these countries. And from personal experience, I can tell you that at every stage of our careers, we have to stay ahead of the curve to compete with local graduates. It is also very likely that most, if not all of the consultants employed at the kind of hospitals that offer treatments to western patients would have done their specialist training in the US or UK.
Nikhil, I personally know at least 10 Indian doctors who have moved back to India after obtaining their post graduate qualifications in the US. Here is an article on this ‘brain gain’
The real problem with Glenn Beck is his lack of fact checking, and mangling of reality. Everybody knows that if you have a really bad case of Ganges, what you need is Viagra. Ask Raj Kapoor. Of course, we don’t have bathtubs in India; otherwise, Cialis might’ve been an option.
Is that really something to boast about considering that India had and still has a FAR greater shortage of doctors than America? Your father got educated in India so why isn’t he serving indians who are in far greater need of his service than americans?
SEN:
First of all I’m not boasting – I am showing facts that show what an idiot Beck is. I am showing that USA was begging for the educated Indian doctors to come work in America and they have thrived here with their Indian education; nothing from their education has held them back and many like my father, are at the top of their game here, with their Indian med school, engineering school, etc. education.
Second you act like my father can’t make the choice to practice his profession where he wants to. Do you have a problem with the fact he wanted to make a lot of money and he didn’t think he could do that in India? Like millions of Indians that was a problem and he wants to travel to another country to use his superb education to make more money and have more control over his practice that’s his business. My father isn’t in the nonprofit or public service sector. He has a job that he enjoys and he like financial rewards. Now if you have a problem with that that is another issue and you’re free to force all Indian grads at the top of their game to stay in India and do their work. For the moment that’s not Indian govt policy.
So again the facts are “not on his side”; Indians with Indian education have been working and using their skills to provide services that are high in demand and they must pass strenuous exams – no problem with the INdian medical degree. Sure there’s problems with the Indian education as whole. We are a developing nation, and so we will have many schools that have as disgusting standards as the many, many failing American schools, but unlike the US we aren’t a developed nation and we are working with different set of resources. Beck isn’t having a discussion on how to improve India’s overall education system. He has again made an idiot of himself, as he mocks the education that has brought so many successful indian drs, engineers, scientists to this country and let them use their education to thrive and often surpass their American educated counterparts. Too funny.
Whoever posted that video of Beck complaining about the shabby medical care he received showing what a loser he is – that was great. He really doesn’t know what he is talking about and his hypocrisy is so blatant. I am amazed anybody would give anything he says credence.
Ah, a small “l”. That explains his need to overcompensate.
Beck and other libertarians clamor for less government and unbridled capitalism. He uses words and imagery that is not PC, but not anymore than big oaf Keith Obermann or Rachel Maddow.
Big Government and socialist policies always fail as Thatcher put it…that you eventually run out of other people’s money to spend. Socialism stifles creativity and wealth creation…that is why majority of Indians left India in 70’s and 80’s.
The key question is not whether Beck’s statements have a basis in reality but whether the anchor of a news program can make unsupported claims and off-the-cuff remarks. My problem with Beck is the larger trend of opinion-‘journalism.’ Is there nothing left in the US that has pure utility? Why do we need to be assaulted with extraneous images and sounds? Say, there is a national emergency (can be something as minute as a fungus that destroys crops), will this media apparatus be able to disseminate information quickly and accurately? Or will the media discuss itself (other TV personalities/ networks) and leave the important questions unanswered; think “a new strain of fungus found in Idaho. Is it harmful to humans or is it just another media frenzy? You decide. Write to us on Facebook and twitter.”
Agreed, In 3 months of joining the work I have seen 4 engineers going back to India. One of the DBD life cycle is 1. come to grad school in US 2. Find a job after graduating, work here for some time (to make up for the huge student loan) 3. Go back to desh (Reasons are varied.. family, career growth, fear of kids becoming Americanized, constant feeling of an outsider, visa hassles)
Amardeep, you are really smart 🙂 But unless Glenn takes panga from one of the political parties in India this will be a non issue in Desh.
Glenn Beck’s republithug buddy Newt Gingrich – now there’s someone who sounds like a disease, like neutered gangrene.
what’s wrong with indian education? Indian universities may be not as prestigious as Harvard or Cambridge ,but some of the first universities in the world were established here in India ,though they don’t exist anymore.Americans like Glenn beck should remember that the USA is only a few centuries old.If India was a rich country ,indian universities would be way ahead than any other American Universities.
How stupid Glennn Beck is
Shashi Tharoor’s ‘cattle class ‘ term was a reply to a journalist who originally used the term.I don’t think any indian got offended by the term except a few ridiculous politicians with no sense of humour.The joke has offended the cows.
Its all about greed is it? We should all have a problem with that attitude. You are basically confirming what Beck said. Even indian doctors, rather than serve their desperately needy countrymen, are desperate instead to leave India for America to enjoy the material benefits of the american lifestyle.
Toppers from indian medical schools making it to American hospitals does not prove that the Indian medical schools are as good as american ones. It is idiotic to claim that.
Glenn Beck is right. India’s healthcare system is very shabby indeed. It ranks #112 in the world, way below even countries like Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Senegal, Phillipines, Palau, Guatemala, Sri Lanka etc. Even Bangladesh at #88 ranks higher than India!
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
what does that have to do with how good the healthcare is for the top 20 %ile? prema, you’ve gotta be a little discriminating, otherwise you look dumber than you are.
Beck’s reference to the Ganges is neither racist nor inflammatory in nature. If you’re a regular listener of Beck’s radio show (which I am) you’ll know that he often uses extreme sarcasm. But I wouldn’t expect SM to listen to Beck, but rather take a few snippets to use it to trumpet their own typical leftist cause.
Beck’s analysis was essentially spot on; however, I agree he did not make much sense when he made reference to docs who went to med school at Harvard (vs an Indian school). In actuality, many of the docs at centers like Apollo Hospital (Chennai) that do procedures for an international clientele went to school in India but did residency in the US.
If Indian education is so great, then why are there many Indians who leave the country to get educated elsewhere (US, UK, Australia)? I’ll admit there are some great IIT schools, but outside of that its relatively hit-or-miss.
Yes, like the Shirodkar stitch which prevented my mom from going into pre-term labor and miscarrying me when no American doctors were familiar with it at the time. I am not sure how the WHO came up with its statistics- it’s probably including medical care for the underserved, which unfortunately may not be uniformly good- but India has a many-tier system and I am pretty sure that is not what medical tourists are going to get.
Agreed, and interestingly enough, aside from the 10 or so DBDs I know that went back-mostly from the Silicon Valley to Bangalore- in the last year I’ve seen at least 5 ABDs go to India either for a brief stint or permanently, and I haven’t really heard any of them complaining yet. I also disagree that all Indians will think the lifestyle is definitely better in the US and that they are all desperate to leave, especially not in the last decade. Yes, they will get less traffic and pollution, corruption although endemic will be less visible, and there may be more wealth and opportunity (even that is questionable in the recent financial crisis.) But the intangibles, such as the jubilation on Juhu Beach on Ganesh Chaturthi, the family that gives you chai and methi paratha when you’re travelling alone on the train, or that their kids won’t have a massive identity crisis because they neither look like their friends or the people on TV can be huge for some people.
apparently beck’s non-racist non-inflammatory “sarcasm” manifests itself only when it comes to non-white people.
and here’s some examples of his “sarcasm” (watch the montage around 0:44). the man is the worst kind of demagogic rabble rouser. but his listeners are as much to blame as he is.
CMF, I didn’t say Indian education is great.I said India had the oldest universities in the world.What I said was if India was a rich country like the US OR UK ,Indian universities would do much better.
I know a bunch of students who got very average marks in the examinations in india and got admitted to universities in the UK.So don’t assume all those going to the UK or US for studies are the best ones in india.There are agencies in india who help average students to get admission at foreign universities. All they need is money.
I wish I had time on my hands to watch his show and figure out who the advertisers were and write them letters or run a boycott campaign. I’d like to see this jackass turn into a liability.
As far as flush toilets in India…. some homes have them but they don’t work properly because the plumbing just isn’t up to par. But anyway, that’s no big deal…. squat toilets require less water for flushing (bucket system) and therefore are more environmentally sound. And squatting is better for health. (need to keep a bad case of the ganges at bay, afterall, i hear it’s similar to swine flu)
While that may be true, that doesn’t preclude (or exclude?) Indians who may want to return to India for cheaper healthcare, OR non-Indian Americans who may want to engage in “medical tourism” there.
What issue could anyone possibly take with someone exercising their own freedom of choice when it comes to personal healthcare? Doesn’t Beck claim to be all about “freedom”???
I remember on one show he was going on and on about his taxes going to pay for fast food drive threw workers who don’t take his order correctly. Last I knew, taxes were automatically taken out of paychecks, Beck. You ain’t payin’ for nobody!
Green Jobs Czar Van Jones from the Obama administration tried to launch a advertising boycott of Beck. He resigned on September 6th of this year. Anita Dunn, the White House communication director, tried to take Beck off the air. She left her position this November. All ways of saying that the best thing you can do to Beck is give him lots of attention. He relishes feeling persecuted and if you are in a position of authority (one of the numerous Czars appointed by Obama) then he will hunt you down with relish.
Obviously Glenn Beck is an idiot, but I have a problem with celebrations of other countries’ “cheap” healthcare systems by people like the SEIU. If they were sharper they would realize that India’s healthcare suffers from the same problem as America’s: only a few people who can pay can afford to get good treatment. The vast majority of people don’t have access to the kind of care medical tourists do. Yes, with lower per capita income, there is a lower threshold of payment – that still doesn’t make it universal or fair. Only for those like this American lady and the middle classes of Delhi and Bombay.
I’d of course be happy to stand corrected if people can tell me that healthcare delivery in rural areas in India is effective, but my guess is no. Also, since when does Glenn Beck care about the purity of rivers? Isn’t all the filth he’s complaining about due to the very kind of development he promotes?
“Obviously Glenn Beck is an idiot, but I have a problem with celebrations of other countries’ “cheap” healthcare systems by people like the SEIU. If they were sharper they would realize that India’s healthcare suffers from the same problem as America’s: only a few people who can pay can afford to get good treatment. “
Nevertheless, India’s healthcare is still affordable to foreigners who may want to go there for “medical tourism”. It’s these people that are being targetted. Everyone should have the right to take care of their bodies in whatever way they see fit. If that means “medical tourism” to countries where surgery is less expensive for them, so be it. Why should I be FORCED to make a decision between paying for healthcare which I cannot afford in my own country or dying?
I’m not familiar with Beck but I think its safe to say, given the libertarian leanings of the American right, he’s not opposed to medical tourism and is probably all for it. What he is saying is using the fact that healthcare is so much cheaper in India as a reason for healthcare reform, indeed appearing gobsmacked by the fact as the woman in the SEIU video appears to be, is bizarrely ignorant of the poverty and low standard of living there.
Typical Maoist behavior.
Who cares what Beck says and Beck says a lot of things!
Btw, most people watch him to feel better about themselves, which would explain the high tv rating he receives. He is a nobody and the fact that he has landed a job in a large institution like Faux News makes dumb people around the world think they too can become something.
lol@ the american right having ‘libertarian’ leanings.
if the previous 8 years proved anything it’s that they have authoritarian leanings. they care about supposed unchecked or unbridled government power only when they are out of power.
The existence of authoritarian leanings on the right doesn’t mean libertarian leanings are non-existent, especially since the first context is national securty while the latter is economic…after all, the democratic party line is that the current economic crises is due to excessive laissez faire.
Where there’s a big tent there’s often strange bedfellows
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/006046.html#comment265425
Great clip BP!
“I wish I had time on my hands to watch his show and figure out who the advertisers were and write them letters or run a boycott campaign. I’d like to see this jackass turn into a liability.”
Yeah, it would nice to shut up every media voice we brilliant, and righteous people know are so wrong. Considering that all the world’s media is now owned by a mere handful, we’re getting closer. Maybe that will make you happy.
What right do you have to say he and his listeners can’t have their say providing no blatant offenses against basic public civility are committed? We’re a democracy. You want more silly “Hitler” eptithets? Just try and shut him up. Calling Obama “Hitler” (no doubt inspired by his being a partial member of the Master Race) is truly silly, but is a diversionary tactic. If you look closely, Obama is actually channelling Mussolini. Screw that stiff, Hitler. He’s so 1930s Berliner. But Benito rocks. I don’t know who trained him but the gestures are spot on, or at least they used to be. I think he’s losing it a bit now though. They may be grooming Palin as a sort of Eva Peron. “They” are the ones who really choose these people. Nothing is left totally to chance. Don’t be naive. Of course “working class” “white” people are pissed. Are they the only ones? They’re among the ones losing jobs and getting shipped to Afghanistan. Lot of “hispanics” also. What a bunch of suckers. This government doesn’t give a shit about them. Personally I wish they’d start a draft. That’d bring a reckoning this country hasn’t seen since Vietnam and maybe bring us together since we’d all be facing the same thing. The draft wouldn’t discriminate about gender, race, etc., Not these days.
As far as the India disparagement, Beck is more or less right about conditions there, but uses the usual tactless shrillness of loud-mouthed poly-sci shock jocks. From what I’ve seen of him, he brings up perfectly valid questions that other networks loudly ignore like the elephant in the living room, but then he annihliates them up with immoderate hyperbole, like all loudmouths on these shows.
Don’t you understand how it works? The more “they” try to bully you and tell you what’s good for you, the more you will fight it. His millions of listeners just don’t believe that most of the rest of MSM is on their side, and I’d be inclined to agree if I didn’t think virtually ALL of MSM is full of shit.
Boycotts against Beck have been tried. Many of the advertisers who were threatened with boycotts were then flooded with letters of support for Beck and many just ignored the boycott because there are persons of greater credibility who went to bat with chapter and verse, on his behalf. His ratings increased.
We more brilliant, educated, international world denizens do try to silence them but don’t try too hard.. They were here as a class long before you or me. Screw Beck. All these news people are bought and sold by somebody. It’s the audiences who are looking for the truth. They’re the interesting factor in the quotient.
“Who cares what Beck says and Beck says a lot of things! “Btw, most people watch him to feel better about themselves, which would explain the high tv rating he receives. He is a nobody and the fact that he has landed a job in a large institution like Faux News makes dumb people around the world think they too can become something. “
Well Mr. Smug-as-a-bug-in-a-rug: if you think you’re getting your concerns addressed you would tend to feel better than if they were ignored. . While many of the commenters on sepiamutiny are “leftist”, they mostly sound sincere in their opinions, and are what one would expect for the demographic. You, however, sound like an auto-generated sound bite from some web bot.
We need more Glenn Beck’s pointing the finger at India’s filth, poverty, hunger, backwardness, child slavery, casteism……
Maybe foreigners can shame indians into confronting these issues? It is worth a try.
Eh…about the big river that sounds like a disease…
Go Beck! wrote:
Go Beck! is Prema. And BTW, the only people who will end up being “shamed” are NRIs who have little to no impact on the policies of the Indian government. But hey, if you want to volunteer yourself to be mistreated at the hands of white Americans, be my guest.
yeah, reducing rupert murdoch’s influence (via fox) in the world would make me happy. i’m willing to concede that libertarians (say, tyler cowen) make very strong points. on the other hand, glenn beck’s fake paranoia, misinformation, lies, conflicts of interest (see goldline), and demagoguery (see “3G”) is what i cannot support.
Why don’t you point out a single lie in what beck said?
truth hurts fake pride:
He complained about pollution problems in another country, but conveniently left out the fact that America is still the world’s biggest polluter. In 2006, the United States produced 5.7 billion metric tons of CO2, while India only produced 1.5 billion.
Dilip, here is a list of some people who would be able to answer your question authoritatively.
manju, that’s disingenuous. beck’s argument is that a deficient indian lifestyle as a whole means that the standard of healthcare provided to foreigners must be substandard too or that technical expertise must be somehow worse. there is no proof offered that indian healthcare workers and doctors who are treating american patients are being paid badly. yes, it happens to be true that prices are generally cheaper in india because labor is comparatively cheaper, but beck is conflating a lot of issues. suppose if real income in the US went down and all sorts of social indicators (health, school drop-out rate) went awry, it doesn’t necessarily imply that american doctors were either trained badly or being underpaid. yes, india has great disparity in each sector including great variance in medical treatment (btw, the health disparity literature in the US also records similar variance in outcomes across the US, across class, race, and geography) but beck conveniently glosses over the fact that this woman probably received great care in india and that is a viable option for people for Americans who cannot afford it. Don’t you know of desis who regularly take advantage of dental care arbitrage? People who retire abroad cheaply to stretch their pensions? Is it an accident that an inarticulate old woman was chosen as Beck’s foil? Why the gratuitous xenophobia? Why not just say that price differentials across countries should not be the motivating reason for healthcare reform here and stopping at that (how about bringing up Walmart and other American corporations which use foreign labor to make cheap products…but no, if someone brings that up she is being elitist…OTOH, low-income folks getting necessary medical procedures are stupid, unpatriotic, and about to get the rest of us killed?)
When Beck had his appendix surgey he claimed that he was alive despite the incredibly dysfunctional medical system; now he claims that we’re about to lose the best healthcare system in the world. Someone is always out to get him. Well, for the sake of poetic justice, I hope that wish of his gets fulfilled. Why should Steve Irwin be the only TV anchor to suffer the wrath of the Irony God?
eh, it’s probably for the best if nothing happens to him during the next 4 or 8 years. his increasingly irascible and angry followers will just claim that obama’s chicago thugs carried out a hit on him, or something.
see above.
suffering fools: I don’t know what amardeep is so confused about, beck is being fairly clear and accurate. He’s exposing the SEIU argumenta as ridiculous. Heatcare is more expensive here b/c of our standard of living and the training and tech, especially drug development, is simply superior. i don’t see that as controversial. the problem with the American system is that people can’t afford it. that he neglects his own experience is the right thing to do since its merely anecdotal.
now the problem with his argument is its couched in some insensitive language, like maybe bidens and clinton’s remarks a while back. personally, i don’t care; i’m more with prema on this one (india should be shamed) except i believe its the socialists who’ve earned the shaming. but if your sensitivity meter is set differently that your prerogative and we can agree to disagree on the tome, but his actual argument is objectively correct (I mean his debunking of the seiu, not his stand on heat core in general).
This discussion is getting more serious than it should. We can argue (like the ‘Argumentative Indian’ by Sen?) about healthcare and poverty and technology and whiteass supremacy ad nauseum till the cows come home, it ain’t gonna change nothin’. There’s only one language that slimebuckets like Beck understand – you gotta hang him by the balls (figuratively, of course). Enough of insipid Ghandian nonviolence. We need role models like Subhash Chandra Bose. Where’s the spirit of mutiny?
I’m sure there were some valid points in what he said but such xenophobia is cancerous for the society. Every society has its good and bad sides but to keep an open mind and have a logical and civil discussion is important. That’s the reason Obama won this election, he was pragmatic, something we haven’t seen in a long time.