Via the New York Times blog, The Lede, I’ve been looking at a number of links regarding India’s Border Security Force (BSF). The starting point for the coverage in the Times was the news in the Deccan Herald that 178 women have, for the first time, joined the force. But the real story The Lede blogger, Robert Mackey, is interested in are the numerous reports of abuses by the BSF, specifically the killing of unarmed people on both sides of the India-Bangladesh border, including both Bangladeshis and Indian citizens. The Lede embeds the following BBC Channel 4 report on the abuses, which is pretty horrifying:
There is obviously a huge problem when the BSF can shoot unarmed people with impunity. But this report by Jonathan Rugman also has some problems, which need to be addressed.
First, how big a problem is it? The numbers are a little confusing. The BSF itself reports 5000 “militants/extremists” killed since 1990, but there is pretty clear evidence that they are under-reporting total deaths (perhaps they simply aren’t reporting deaths of unarmed people at all). For the Channel 4 reporter at least, it was relatively easy to find many villagers on both sides of the border with relatives who had been killed — who were obviously not “militants/extremists.”
That said, there are some problems in the story above, and in Robert Mackey’s blog post about it. One is the inclusion of footage from a “BSF Recruiting video” by both reporters. In fact, you can see the video on YouTube, and it seems highly unlikely to me that “Kashsoldier,” the author of the video, is putting together his various amateur videos for official Indian military use. I wonder why they think his videos are official recruiting videos? Amy I missing something? (Would the Indian armed forces really be using American heavy metal music to recruit Indian soldiers?)
Second, in the Channel 4 coverage I linked to above, there is a good deal of what seems like irrelevant material inserted, confusing the story. The historical references to partition, and footage of places where the border between India and Bangladesh is a mere alleyway, do not relate to the people being shot around the fence. If I understand the story correctly, people are not being shot in those alleys.
Finally, the reporter, Jonathan Rugman, doesn’t really attempt to bring the two issues discussed in the story together in an adequate way. On the one hand, he is interested in the massive border fence between India and Bangladesh that is being constructed. But he is also interested in the BSF’s frequent killing of unarmed villagers, who are either crossing the border illegally, or simply working on land that happens to be a little too close to the fence. But is there a connection between the two issues? Have the numbers of killings shot up since the fence was constructed? One presumes that is what has happened, but Rugman also mentions that the BSF has been much more aggressive since the 11/26 attacks in Mumbai. So which is the main cause of these killings of unarmed people?
I’m not saying the report about the BSF isn’t still chilling. But Jonathan Rugman’s coverage of leaves something to be desired; a supporter of the Indian military might be able to find some holes.
Borders are messy everywhere. I am sure many innocents are getting killed unnecessarily and NGOs in India should hold the BSF and the Bangladeshhi Border guards accountable. When so many are killed in a much more benign border between the US and Mexico, you are likely to see more in the the Indo-Bangla border because of terrorism concerns. Innocent people will continue to get killed, until nation-states, ideologies and economic differences are eliminated.
this must be a propoganda mechanism to tarnish the reputation of bsf. the blogger has not verified whether the people bsf killed on the other side of the border where trying to infiltrate the border or anything. it is a known fact that the Border Rifles is very agressive and killed indian soldiers without impunity and even their goverment is not ready to fully trust them. at this point the ny times blog author is introducing a new propaganda to divert the attention from bsf attrocities / bangladesh infiltrations to the actions taken by bsf. this certainly requires a close examination.
thanks, ramkumar
When so many are killed in a much more benign border between the US and Mexico,
Borders, what makes you think a lot of people are killed at the U.S. Mexico border?
See this Link. There have been maybe half a dozen instances of U.S. Border patrol killing Mexican citizens at the border. In the most recent incident, which occurred in 2007, the federal agent was put on leave while the matter was investigated. It is a very small number of incidents.
Rather than shoot these unarmed people, the BSF should be detaining them and sending them back. These folks are all on foot; it shouldn’t be that hard. It should also not be that hard to see if they are armed. Also, no one should be killed simply for being too near the fence.
Ramkumaran, I have not seen any indication that the deaths that are being reported relate to BSF skirmishes with its Bangladeshi counterpart.
Actually there’s an interesting debate going on between posters and NYT. So far it hasn’t devolved into teri ma ki.
Actually there’s an interesting debate going on between posters and NYT. So far it hasn’t devolved into teri ma ki.
Yes, I appreciate that Robert Mackey is taking the time to reply to many of the critical comments. I myself left one, asking about the YouTube BSF recruiting video (“Kashsoldier”), and he replied as follows:
We believe Mr. Rugman, who spoke with the previous director general of the B.S.F. is correct. If you have some evidence that he is not, please let us know. We did not say that the video was uploaded to YouTube by someone acting on behalf of the B.S.F.
Amardeep, From your Wiki link, more than 500 deaths every year (2005 data).
Because of the nature of the US/Mexico border the border guards don’t have to fire, just push them more and more from city areas towards the desert and nature will take care of killing them. Not so in the Indo-Bangla border. Now imagine if terrorist organizations were based in Mexico that periodically send people across to bomb and maim within the US. The US/Mexican dynamic would change dramatically.
I don’t condone BSF shooting, if it is on unarmed people and during daytime. But if these shootings are at night, it would be much harder for the BSF to detain people. I am not sure, what the rules of engaement are, but it would have been easy for the BBC reporter to obtain one from the BSF, if he was interested. He also neglected to investigate killings by the Bangladesh Rifles, focusing only on the BSF. BTW, I noticed that BSF personnel are also being killed in large numbers, which tells me that it is not they, who are the only ones that are armed and dangerous.
Because of the nature of the US/Mexico border the border guards don’t have to fire, just push them more and more from city areas towards the desert and nature will take care of killing them.
This doesn’t make any sense. The illegal Mexican migrants are forced to go through the desert not because the U.S. Border Patrol sends them there to die, but because those are the areas that are hardest to patrol in general, and so easiest for the migrants to try. The issue at hand is intentional killing of unarmed people, not accidental deaths.
BTW, I noticed that BSF personnel are also being killed in large numbers, which tells me that it is not they, who are the only ones that are armed and dangerous.
I noticed that too, though look at the way it breaks down by year: link at the BSF’s official website. The vast majority of the deaths occurred in the early 1990s, and then in the 2 years following Kargil. These are total BSF deaths, so it includes deaths on the Kashmir border, as well as the border with Pakistan.
Notice that very few BSF members have been killed in the past two years.
On the other side, the numbers with regards to the numbers of “militants/extremists” killed also seem odd. Why did they report such high numbers for the first 5 years (1990-1994), and how is it that the numbers have dropped so much since?
In 2008, they say they killed 28 militants. But Reuters had a report saying that 59 people had been killed in the first six months of 2008 alone (34 Bangladeshis, 21 Indians, the rest unidentifiable). To me that says that the BSF is not counting the killing of civilians at all.
I’m not saying we can do anything conclusive with the charts at the BSF website. Rather, the numbers just seem odd. My guess is, they’ve changed how they count deaths over the years.
I’m not trying to justify killing unarmed villagers, but the statement above seems overbroad. What would villagers whose relatives were militants/extremists look like? Maybe like Kasab’s family? I.e., let’s be slow to draw conclusions. Of course people whose kids are shot are going to say “he was only tending the fields.”
Amardeep, your halo is slipping. The Langar Hall connections are showing up my dear. With the HUGE influx of illegal Bangladeshis into all border states of India there have been noticeable demographic changes already. WB is the holiday resort of Islamic extremism. So please I prefer to save my sympathy for our BSF who is putting their lives at risk making ours singnificantly safer.
The Indo Bangla border is NOT like the US Canada border.
There needs to be an independent inquiry on how many farmers and cattle smugglers (yes I consider them ‘innocent’ too; they are only trying to earn a livelihood) are killed by the BSF every year. Generally though I would err on the side of caution when it comes to shooting, even if it is revealed that a minority of the people killed in the border zone are not terrorists; it is a major injustice as is that state borders are impinging on the freedom of these farmers (of course, ideally I would like to see a demilitarized border between India and Bangladesh, but I realize that the terrorism concerns are quite real). Perhaps better lighting, or use of non-lethal weapons would be a solution. Also I hope that to the extent that the BSF kills innocents (even by mistake; that would constitute manslaughter), there is some legal recourse for the victims.
(1) Who are the terrorists coming in from Bangladesh? Are they Islamic terrorists like the Bombay attackers or some other type? (2) It is not a surprise that the BSF is acting badly. That is what 3rd world police/border guards/armies do so not really a surprise. This is no different from the human rights abuses of the Indian army in the Kashmir Valley.
I think they’re probably usually the type of terrorist that cleans people’s houses at extremely low wages and whatnot 😉
Amardeep, your halo is slipping. The Langar Hall connections are showing up my dear.
What Langar Hall connections? If there’s one sloppy mode of argument I detest more than anything, it’s guilt by association. Especially when there is no association to speak of.
Incidentally, something like 40% of the unarmed people killed by BSF in the Reuters story I linked to were Indian citizens and presumably Hindus. Were they terrorists too?
Incidentally, something like 40% of the unarmed people killed by BSF in the Reuters story I linked to were Indian citizens and presumably Hindus
1) Actually Amardeep, that is completely irrelevant. 2) I would not presume that they are mostly Hindus; Murshidabad has a very large muslim population (perhaps majority); but see 1
If anyone is interested in the human rights history of the Indian Army in Kashmir:
From Human Rights Watch:
“Everyone Lives in Fear” (2006) Behind the Kashmir Conflict (1999) India’s Secret Army in Kashmir (1996) Arms and Abuses in Indian Punjab and Kashmir (1994) The Human Rights Crisis in Kashmir (1993) Rape in Kashmir (1993) Crackdown in Kashmir (1993) Kashmir Under Seige (1991)
if they are killed they were terrorists. if they were terrorists they were muslim. if they were muslim they weren’t indians anyway.
the circle of death.
If it’s between me and some HUJI sympathizer, you can bet your bottom dollar I’ll be shooting first asking questions later. Of course they’ll be tragic mistakes but the fact remains these people are trying to enter India illegally and the BSF has to split second decisions. It’s not like they are rampaging through Bangladesh and Pakistan conducting ‘My Lai’s’ at will.
What’s completely glossed over is the complicity the BDR is aiding meth smugglers, Cow Smugglers(huge business) and are as disciplined as an armed chimp on crack. They single handedly wiped out a whole generation of officers in their most recent petulant coup. BSF has sustained more casualties to the BDR than vice versa and there’s no action taked by the GoI. Of course you can expect their operational doctrine to be aggressive otherwise they’ll be sitting ducks.
The whole North-East past the Silguri “turkey neck” would be in flames if it weren’t for these brave men and women who patrol all day mostly on foot. You never hear instances like this happening with the BSF’s Burmese counterparts for a reason. Same cannot be said for the BDR. Protecting the border has become a lucrative business there.
Sikhs like Amardeep have served in Indian armed forces in far greater proportions than their numbers in the population.
Therefore to impugn Amardeep’s patriotism for publishing this controversial report is not really called for.
By the way, I am not Sikh, just mildly incensed.
Had to go look up SikhiWiki to figure out what you guys are talking about. Swati that lil jab was in poor taste although strangely I’m now kinda hungry. 🙂
Yeah, India has such a shortage of low-wage labour. Shades of gray paint a more realistic picture you know?
I’m having trouble finding a single description of an actual incident. Are the guards using people in villages for target practice on a whim? Are they only shooting people attempting to cross the border in specific areas? Are the incidents primarily in the day or at night? Do they first attempt to arrest them before opening fire? What is the official protocol? All of this shit is relevant and I’m failing at googling anything that addresses them. Anyone?
On a more general note, armed forces have a long history of being assholes when they’re deployed in areas where they don’t identify with the local population. That seems to be part of the problem. Perhaps more policing and less patrolling is part of solution.
This is just plain silly. Just so you know, on this blog, ONLY Amardeep has the courage and intestinal fortitude to tolerate a genuinely free discussion.
While Sikhs in India have served in the Indian Army disproportionate to their population, it may not be necessarily due to patriotism [do all american soldiers serve inspired by patriotism?], Sikhs served in large numbers under the British rule too, pre-1947. And, do you know that even now there are Gurudwaras in Canada, USA and England, where pro-Khalistan lectures are organized and funds collected for the “movement” routinely.
I respect Amardeep’s progressive stance, but, as I have said before, his progressive principles seem to go on a vacation when the issue is Sikhism. Indeed, were Amardeep defending or ignoring Hinduism’s failings as a Hindu the way he defends and ignores Sikhism’s excesses, Sepia denizens who lean left would have surely labeled him hindutva-vadi, and rightly so, in my opinion.
Smart move Amardeep. Your name was a hyperlink to Langar Hall’s website, thats how I came to know of that site at all btw. You have changed it now. You also remember the hauling-over-hot-coals of Sonal Shah due to her association with VHP-A.
@MildilyIncensed : Sikhs in the army….. They were and are also among the Khalistanis. Sikh batallions mutinied and killed the General Vaidya. So if you were trying to make a “point” abt Sikh patriotism, please look at the whole picture.
@Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery : Bangla terrorists are the same Kasab types but do lower intensity blasts since Bangladesh is just an outsourcing center for Jihadis. They were deemed responsible for serial blasts in Jaipur last year. So I take patrolling along the Indo bangla border just as seriously as along the IndoPak one.
Yes Bangladeshis have repeatedly destroyed border fencing to keep the border porus for reasons known to all.
That is what 3rd world police/border guards/armies do…
Naturally, they kill their own because they are not punch drunk on power and propaganda that allows them to blow ‘towelheads’ or yellow people to smithereens. And lo and behold, that liberal bastion, Hollywood can always be counted upon to document the suffering and angst of ‘our’ boys.
Way to make your point. PC gloves off when it comes to India, PAfD?
I am admittedly ignorant about details around infiltration (the word has a sinister connotation as opposed to illegal migration) and terrorism, but it is instructive that there is a reflexive defence that centres on the whole terrorism premise. As if people know exactly what is going on (with apologies to those who at least have an idea – based on real reporting or first hand information)!
Swati, my name has always linked to my own blog- ever since the first days if SM. I have never been associated with the langar hall. Quit making stuff up, please.
Swati, there was absolutely no need for you to mention anything Sikh-related in this thread…other than your obviously anti-Sikh feelings. Make your points about the border, illegals, etc. without unnecessary, irrelevant, offensive, and distracting tangents, that just show your prejudices.
I respect Amardeep’s progressive stance, but, as I have said before, his progressive principles seem to go on a vacation when the issue is Sikhism. Indeed, were Amardeep defending or ignoring Hinduism’s failings as a Hindu the way he defends and ignores Sikhism’s excesses, Sepia denizens who lean left would have surely labeled him hindutva-vadi, and rightly so, in my opinion.
What does this issue have to do with Sikkhism? Reading SM comments is actually pretty depressing sometimes.
@Amitabh: If our esteemed Amardeep can flaunt his prejudices (that you are too blind to notice them is another matter) why not a humble Indian like me? Actually I was pointing out a known fact abt Amardeep. The Sikhism tangent was started by 11. And I am not Anti Sikh but after reading ALL of Amardeep’s posts here I question his “progressiveness” as other commentators have also done.
It is mildly irritating that ABDs and other non FOBs write these blogs then comment with no knowledge of the ground situation in India. Illegal Bangladeshis are seen in large numbers in Delhi (where I am from) and have voters ID cards issued in WB. They are involved in small scale thefts including murder of senior citizens (for robbery) in the outskirts of Delhi.
There is a reason why Indians are least bothered by this news (assuming its correct). That has a lot to do with the activities illegal Bangladeshis have been involved in in various cities of India. The menace is not restricted to Kolkata anymore.
Way to make your point. PC gloves off when it comes to India, PAfD?
I was not talking about India but poor countries in general.
Swati # 25
103 men and officers of 23rd Punjab and 4th BSF stopped a 1000 man column of Pak Army re-inforced by 40 tanks, in 1971 war.
Units of 4th Naga (another hotbed of insurgency) suffered over 15:1 casualties during uphill attacks on Pak hostiles in Kargil 1999 conflict.
Yes, more often than not, poverty rather than patriotism fuels military recruitment, but the misdeeds of a few cannot outweigh the sacrificess of the many.
The only LEGAL Bangladeshi immigrant in India is Tasleema Nasreen but thats another story 🙂
I was not even interested in Sikh patriotism in general cos thats a dumb thing to debate. I was talking about Amardeep’s blinkered vision. However I bit your bait before and will do so again….
If you feel that Amardeep’s co-religionists should be automatically considered more patriotic (thats such a dumb suggestion but anyways) cos of their army enrollment.. you will also have to “subtract” the Khalistanis (the hijackers, the fund collectors in US/UK/Canada/Oz, the Langar Hall fellows get half a point perhaps?), the Sikh regiment soldiers who mutinied (are you really THAT clueless that you don’t know this?) and our beloved Camille.
Shud keep you busy for a while 🙂
Bastards. They are taking the jobs of hardworking Indian robbers and murderers.
36 Mr X: I already mentioned the Jaipur blasts and how many senior citizens to they have to kill before u stop welcoming them?
Will ABDs please READ newspapers from India now and then? Even the mainstream ones like TOI, HT and IE mention this regularly/
I wish the Channel 4 team had concentrated less on sensationalizing and more on providing real information.
PAfD, peace and apologies for the tone of my comment. ‘Third world’ got to me.
swati, fine, you think Amardeep is prejudiced. Why don’t you lay it out so everyone can see things for what they are? Stray examples of murders of senior citizens (is it your contention that all of these were committed by illegal Bangladeshi immigrants?) will not cut it. Having concerns about illegal immigration is one thing, it is quite another to sweep under the carpet potential unlawful acts by the BSF. Are BSF personnel beyond scrutiny?
If anything this points out why we need a wall on the border. Keeps the innocents safer, and puts the border guards under less stress.
Until then: “Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset”
Swati:
[…] Amardeep, your halo is slipping […]
That is his pug …you silly.
[…] And I am not Anti Sikh but after reading ALL of Amardeep’s posts here I question his “progressiveness” as other commentators have also do […]
So, he is not a progressive, is such a relative term. He, however is honest enough to allow comments from some people who take a completely adversarial stance. See, this is a private blog – he can post whatever he wants and allow comments only from Amardeep-groupies.
[…] It is mildly irritating that ABDs and other non FOBs write these blogs then comment with no knowledge of the ground situation in India. […]
It is not just mildly irritating – it can be very irritating. Just search for a post about (un)hygienic practices in India, one poor girl was wondering why Indians do not shower 4 times a day, ‘coz [quote] “I take a shower every time after I poop” [un qoute]. Not many ABDs have had the pleasure of running after a Municipal Corporation water tanker to score a bucket of drinking water.
My suggestion is that you channel your frustrations towards whatever Robert Mackey reported. I am just saying…
If anything this points out why we need a wall on the border. Keeps the innocents safer, and puts the border guards under less stress.
I have feeling that Lou Dobbs would agree with you on this point.
dizzy d, too coy to express your sentiments in language everybody can understand? “kill them all, god will know his own”, you say. do you want the same strategy applied to you and yours?
or do medieval christian ideas only apply when used by bjp supporters on suspected muslims at the border?
Amardeep, your halo is slipping. The Langar Hall connections are showing up my dear.
What langar hall connection. I don’t think that Amardeep would be the most popular blogger on Langar Hall if he was on that website.
One of the things that makes Amardeep great here on SM is that he talks about issues from all different south asian groups and not just his own.
Swati, My problem with your posts is more along aesthetic lines. Most of your gags are lifted from Bal Thakeray’s routine. The man drops some primo comedy gold on Dussehra day every year. You should witness the greatness and take notes. And more importantly, develop your own material. You have potential, don’t let it go to waste.
I believe this is due to the Boundary Accord of 1974 — no fences/structures in the approximately 150 yards of no man’s land.
Nah, just too lazy.. here it is in greater detail.
India is facing awful problems, social, economic and security related due to Bangladeshi illegal immigration. Bangladesh has encouraged illegal immigration — I even remember the Bangla PM actually saying that there was nothing wrong with illegal immigration on PBS and asking the interviewer why Bangladesh should prevent illegal immigration. The way I see it, there are only a limited number of options.
Forgiving of blunders and lower human cost – Effective in enforcing borders and keeping out terrorists – unaffordable
Unforgiving of blunders and higher human cost- Effective in enforcing borders and keeping out terrorists – affordable
Forgiving of blunders and lower human cost – ineffective in enforcing borders and keeping out terrorists – affordable
Option 1: Given that India is a 3rd word country, and the border with Bangladesh is porous and given that Bangladesh is somewhat uncooperative option 1 is not doable at this time. This will change if and only if, Bangladesh’s economy is becomes strong enough to reduce incentives to go over the borders, Bangladesh’s govt becomes more pro-active, and India’s economy becomes strong enough to be able to afford resources and training far in excess of what even the US currently has.
Option 3: inflicts a very large cost on India — but this cost is spread over time and over a large area so it is not visible.
Option 2: Has a highly visible cost, and will not be fully effective ever, but will be effective enough ensure a much lower cost to India than Option 3.
Right now India is following an course between option 2&3 but which seems to be closer to option 3 than option 2.
All the plumminess cannot hide the fact that this is a thinly veiled hatchet job. The report bares it’s fangs in the opening moments by showing a ‘beheaded’ map of India, with Kashmir innocuously absorbed into the pale green topography beyond. Much like the heavy metal supplemented video that it tries to pass off as the official recruitment video of the BSF, the report is a wild amalgamation of accusations, edited out of context soundbytes, dishonest mixing of unrelated issues and contemptuous dismissal of India’s valid security concerns (2000 miles of wire and concrete- all in the name of security!! imagine!)voiced in an irritatingly supercilious BBC accent.
Sadly, India’s neighbourhood is a security nightmare. And all our wishes for it to be a French- Swiss like frontier cannot change the fact that it’s not going to happen in the foreseeable future. India faces a very real problem of Bangladeshi immigration creating serious domestic tensions. The north eastern states and cities like Bombay and Delhi are living with this (yet another) Congress created disaster. Also very real is the threat of the porous border being used by Islamist terrorists (also groups like ULFA) from both Bangladeshi and external origins to infiltrate the country.The BDR has it’s own serious problems and cannot be explicitly trusted. So yes, the fence is a good idea. I don’t think Bangladesh should complain about what India decides to do in it’s own territory.
The issue of human rights violation and indiscriminate and unwarranted use of violence is a separate one and needs to be looked at seriously and the long pending police reforms need to implemented urgently. The men patrolling our borders are also under immense stress and threat of violence (2001 border conflict), so in this case, good fences will make us better neighbours.
As for this annoying habit of the Brits to lecture the rest of us, this man expresses his disgust better than me. Amardeep, I admire you for your tolerance and your ability to handle and accept dissenting views. You do possess substantial intestinal fortitude.
There. Time for my next Tamiflu capsule.
First off, “Intestinal Fortitude” sounds like a grunge band from western Massachusetts. Stop confusing my pre-conceived notion sensor by associating the term with blogging prowess on Sepia.
Second, the report does indeed look like a hatchet job, as Lupus Solitarius pointed out above.
Third, even if one were to discount the bias of the report, there is no sensible way to prevent such skirmishes operationally while the border remains porous. The point is not that India’s population is large, but that Bangladesh’s population density is higher. Even without the economic driving force (India’s GDP per capita is twice that of Bangladesh), the sheer density would drive people from Bangladesh to India. Asking armed forces of either country to handle this situation is asking for stress and trouble all round. In fact, a strong border wall or electrified fence (or other permanent structure) would go much further to reduce both illegal immigration and loss of life in border incidents than anything else.
Now that I think about it some more after knocking back a few beers, I think a better and cheaper solution than building a wall or electrified fence is to let a bunch of feral pigs run around in the border area. Watch illegal immigration go right down. The casual illegal immigration anyway. Who would want to wade through pig shit to get to another country? The ones who do get through show that they have drive and determination, and would probably make good workers anyway. I think this plan will work: “Give us your dedicated, your hardworking, your entrepreneurial, yearning to earn more. The rest of you lazy quitters can fall down in pig shit and choke”.
I’ma develop this plan over a few more beers.