“Excuse me! Can I ask you a question?” the black 40-ish year old man said with a cell phone in his right hand as I walked out of Samosa House in Venice. It was closing time, and I had run in to grab a late night meal. He had been hitting on me earlier when I had first walked to the counter – he said he liked my red heels and dress, asked if I worked in an office, wondered what Indian food he should order. I had responded nicely yet curtly, and he had disappeared as I ordered my food to go. It seemed like he hadn’t ventured far, and was on the phone hovering around the entrance.
“Sure…” I responded hesitantly. The old me would have brushed him off, but I’ve been trying to be nicer this past year.
“Back when I lived in D.C. I always wondered this,” he answered deadpan, phone still open in hand. He didn’t hang up on his call. “What is the difference between Indian and Cherokee Indian?”
I looked at him to see if he was kidding. His expression was not kidding. “Well… uh…” I hesitated. “Cherokee Indians are indigenous to here, to America. And Indians … are from India.” I looked at him and he still looked confused. “You know India? As in the country around the world? On Asia, the continent?”
“Then why are they both called ‘Indian’?”
I bit my lip as I tried to figure out how to best answer his questions. Could he really not know the difference? Slowly, I said, “Well, when Christopher Columbus landed in America, he saw brown people and thought he had landed in India instead. He called the brown people he saw Indian. So it was an accident.”
“Brown people? Christopher Columbus?”
“Look. I’m late. My food is getting cold. I have to go.” I walked quickly to my car shaking my head exasperatedly, hoping he wasn’t following. I realized that there was no point in breaking it down for a man that needed 4th grade educating. And try as I might to be nice to every guy that approaches me… there’s a point where you just have to walk away.
+++
“You know, that’s a myth,” a friend said when I recounted the story to him. He was an activist for the indigenous community, and if anyone should know, I figured it would be him. “The word India wasn’t even around back in 1492. Research shows that the term Indian comes from when Columbus landed he referred to them as ‘una geste in Dios’ or in other words ‘a people of God.'”
Really? Could I have told the told the man at the Samosa House wrong? I did a little digging. First question, what was India called in 1492?
The name, derived from the Indus River (from Sanskrit sindhu, “a river”), goes back to antiquity. Alexander the Great referred to the Indus (Indos), and to the region’s inhabitants as Indikoi, as early as the third century B.C. The name passed from Greek into Latin and thence into other European languages, the earliest citation in English being in 893 A.D. by King Alfred the Great. At the time of Columbus’s voyage, “India” or “the Indias/Indies” was often used to refer to all of south and east Asia. Columbus carried with him a passport from Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain, written in Latin and dispatching him “toward the regions of India” (ab partes Indie) on their behalf. Martin Beheim‘s globe of 1492, which predated the voyage, clearly labels the region as “Indie.” “Hindustan,” also derived from the Indus River, is a much later term, not appearing in English until 1665. In any case, in Spanish that name is not Hindustan but Indostan.[straightdope]
So India was called India or something similar in 1492, when Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Wiki even has a list of names for India pre-1500s. So that part is plausible. Second question then is, what did Columbus write home about the indigenous community?
[Columbus] wrote a letter, in Spanish, detailing his discoveries while off the Azores during his homeward voyage…The original manuscript has not survived, but a printed copy made shortly after its receipt has. In the first paragraph Columbus says “In 33 days I passed from the Canary Islands to the Indies” (en 33 dÃas pasé de las islas de Canaria a las Indias). His first reference to the inhabitants comes in the second paragraph: “To the first [island] which I found I gave the name San Salvador . . . the Indians call it GuanahanÔ (A la primera que yo hallé puse nombre San Salvador . . . los Indios la llaman GuanahanÃ). In all he makes six references to India or the Indies, and four to Indios. Nowhere in the letter does he use a phrase resembling una gente in Dios. [straightdope]
So, I was right when I told the guy that hit on me that Columbus called Native Americans Indians because he had thought he had landed in India. Myth demystified. If anyone ever hits on me with that line again, I know exactly how to answer now. And I’ll have the link to the original letter (English, Latin, and Spanish) to prove it.
+++
I’m interested in hearing (…ok, reading in the comments) the pick-up lines that our Sepia Mutiny readers have received over the years. Not the generic pick up lines, but those that involved some intersection of racialization absurdity such as the one I narrated above. For instance, last summer at the Santa Monica Pier, this black guy walked by and said, “You Indian? Indian is close to nigger…” and this other time at a mall in Virgina a posse of teenage boys said, “Let be your Osama, baby.” Ladies, I want to hear your stories. What words have been used on you?
“Ladies, I want to hear your stories. What words have been used on you?”
don’t women use pick-up lines on men? 🙂
Yeah, brothas sure know how to come up with ’em!
LOL.
Desi brothers have the best line: ‘Vat is your biodata?’
Maybe this guy has moved to SoCal?
I had to explain why both parties are called Indian to my father-in-law as well. Told him we were Indian (from INDIA, get it, get it?) before native Americans were, and didn’t take on the ethnic term to “assimilate on moving to America.”
There was the douche who grabbed my hand and asked where my skin color is from. My DNA, you moron. (Side note: Wasn’t so irritated with question, but the forwardness in grabbing a brown girl’s hand when he wouldn’t have done same to white girl.)
I still get the “Hey, where are you from?” If and when I do tell them of my Indian descent, they say, “I knew it!” Then, why the hell did you ask? Did I ask if you were of European or African descent?
How do you know?
I’m a gay man, and a comment I get a lot is after I say I’m Indian is “Oh, I love Middle Eastern guys.”
Judging from the above comments, it sounds like the douchebags are concentrated along the East and West coasts. The Midwest seems more educated. Or at least not exhibiting ignorance so openly.
Well ladies, imagine if you NEVER ever got hit on. Even once in your life…
Would you rather that or getting hit on once in while with a corny, ignorant pick-up line.
The cup is either half full or half empty, is what I’m saying.
Waiting for Anna to chip in with her tales of dancing a bhangra around a tepee.
Excellent write-up, Taz.
“you look like a porcelain doll.”, at the gym.
There are plenty of d-bags in the Midwest, educated or not. I have gotten several separate lines involving the Kama Sutra. But the worst was when I was approached by a guy named “Dan. D-A-N. Can you pronounce that?”
Um, aren’t you a guy, Nayagan? So who said this to you – a guy or girl?
Or did you say it to them?
I’m confused.
yes indeed, I am cursed with the deteriorating chromosome–you’ll have to guess the gender and ethnicity of the flirter. But why not ask why Taz only asked for pick-up lines directed at ladies? Are we men not pretty? Do we not attract empowered individuals with our looks and bearing?
From a man’s POV:
I was flying back to Chicago, seated next to a young Indian woman who grew up in the Middle East. Started out pleasant enough, but I got bored after awhile, and just wanted to be left alone. Out of the blue, she asks me, “Do you think I’m fat?” WTF?! I mean, yeah, she was hefty, but I wasn’t going to answer that. So, I just said, “I’m not going to answer that.” I then pretended to nap for the rest of the flight.
This is going to be fun.
@ Raj (number 7):
That is hilarious and shows the level of people’s ignorance. India (for that matter, Pakistan too) are not parts of the Middle East. We’re South Asian not Middle Eastern for god’s sake 🙂
That’s basically saying “Yes, but I don’t want to get slapped.”
You should have said “Do you really need validation from a virtual stranger on an airplane?”
lol …i might know that chick.. she now has an eating disorder
Goes both ways. Some Pakistanis prefer to be associated with the Middle East, believe it or not.
This aldy at a bar, first knowing my name was Sudesh… I didnt know you were from Sweden? (Sudesh..Sweden?, smart ehe?)
College year, walking to a class after spring break… Lady: Hey, where’d you get that tan? Me: Right here, in Vermont.
Nayagan’s so tranparent
thanks for the research and writeup, Taz!
i’ve gotten the ‘where are you from?’ question all my life, and yet it never fails to exasperate and make me roll my eyes. i tend to shoot back a reply along the lines of, ‘lots of places. are you asking where i was born, where i grew up, where i went to school, where i live, or where i work?’ (i know exactly what they’re asking. i just like being difficult.)
but the question that pissed me off the most was on BART here in the bay area: ‘what language do you speak?’ it then degenerated into a ridiculous exchange that included him mentioning Gypsies and Egyptians.
Wow. Why such bad vibes? People are just being nice – and curious.
Work on the attitude.
Do some pranayama or something.
@ SBF (#21). You’re right and I find that so ridiculous. When I was studying at LUMS (one of the of the most prestigious colleges in Pakistan), I had a professor of Urdu literature who made a big deal of out who we were so influenced by Arab and Persian civilizations, and I kept thinking “um… we’re also really influenced by India.. why don’t we talk about that?”
Whatever people like to think, we Pakistanis really are south asian… which is why in the disapora we tend to get along better with other desis than with middle-easterners with whom we don’t have much in common besides the religion. And even then, south asian islam is different from middle-eastern islam.
SBF, is it intentional that every single one of your posts in this thread is contradictory to something someone else has already posted, sometimes unnecessarily so? 😛
Sometimes “what language do you speak?” can carry the same vibe as “wow, your English is really good!” (To which one of my dad’s friends would respond, “Thanks, so is yours!”) Not saying they mean the same thing, but it’s really about how the person intended it, his/her tone of voice, and stuff that doesn’t come across in a text-only comment.
And exactly what is wrong with “wow! you’re english is so good!”????
Too many stix up too many a**es if y’all are getting offended by people being nice and giving compliments, even if the same can be taken the wrong way. Half full, half empty. You decide.
The world is how you see it. Seems like a lot of people have a negative view of the world and people in it. How sad for them. Bitter people are ugly and soon won’t be hearing any pick up lines, because the reputation of their attitudes will have made the rounds.
And exactly what is wrong with “wow! you’re english is so good!”????
It’s the presumption that b/c you look the way you do, you can’t speak good English, when I know Indians have been writing excellent novels in English for awhile, not mention many of us in the US consider English our first language. It sounds ignorant and patronizing. And then when it’s a guy that you are not attracted to, it is extremely, annoying.
This exchange just happed to me – a white man, on the metro, who looked at me and spoke to me in Hindi. I was in a bad mood and said I don’t speak “hindi”. “Tamil?” he says. “No, I don’t speak Tamil”. Then he asks me “What language do you speak?” and I say “English” and I’ll admit I glared at him.
But what if you “look Indian” but can’t speak “Indian” there can be another reaction —I was just returning from India and at JFK airport sitting next to a group of people discussing where they are from. There is an Egyptian man and he turns to me and says, “I know where you from – you are Indian” – big smile on his face. Yes, I’m Indian I answer. Then he starts saying something to me in Hindi….and I respond that I don’t speak Hindi. “you don’t speak Hindi????; In Egypt Indian songs from the movies are more popular than Egyptian songs” incredulous look and sings a few lines from some Hindi song.
“No I don’t speak Hindi; In India there’s many languages and the area where I was born in, the language spoken is Malayalam”
Egyptian man doesn’t register the nuances of Indian linguistics and instead looks at me with pitying look, “Oh you need to learn about your country…so much history, so much to see, you should learn about your culture and learn to speak Indian.”
There you have it…he thought I was was some lost person, a regular ABCD with the C = Very Confused.
So if the guy was super-handsome and “together” looking, you’d what? Chuckle? Smile? Educate him?
Does something like this happen often? Being spoken to in Hindi/Tamil by someone who isn’t desi?
super-handsome and “together” looking, you’d what? Chuckle? Smile? Educate him?
I’m superficial enough to think it might be a little less annoying, but I’d still think the man was ignorant.
Does something like this happen often? Being spoken to in Hindi/Tamil by someone who isn’t desi?
You know Bess, I certainly didn’t have this happen to me growing up in NC. Then it was the usual “what tribe am I from?” – as the only people NCarolinians saw that had brown skin and straight black hair were Native American people ; I really think it’s b/c India and Indians are becoming somewhat better known and part of popular culture. I’m giving my age away, but when I was school Hindi or Tamil at my alma mater wasn’t taught…now it is…But I have had lots of non-Americans, say from Asia or the Middle East say some phrase in Hindi…(nobody breaks out their Malayalam :)) and this is solely b/c of Bollywood, as these people tell me how much they love Bollywood and Amitabh or some other star. It’s amazing how well those stars are known and the music appreciated.
Does anybody have reviews of the food served at Samosa House?
For one particular reason only – I feel that on posts like these in the SM space, LADIES voices get drowned out my the male voices who say stuff like, “If you complain so much, would you rather not get hit on?” As if getting hit on for our looks is the only thing that motivates women to interact with men. I wanted to make sure this space was particularly open and safe for women to share. And right now it sounds like it’s not because my inbox is full of e-mails from women sharing stories that they are not willing to post in the comments on this site. Men (SBF in particular) – please respect how your voice affects dialogue on an issue that is really important for women to share.
Personally, I find pick up lines never work, whether they exotify or not. If a guy says I remind him of a game of checker or if he wants to be my Osama, it’s never an honest I want to meet you. Ask any girl, the best “pick-up” is getting approached with a simple, “Hi.” That’s the nice way to do it.
Sometimes linguistic confusion can end well. Another time at the airport, a confused woman in her fifties approached me, and asked me in Spanish where her gate was. I looked at her ticket, saw she was a good hike from where she should be, and told her in Spanish that I’d be happy to walk her to the correct gate. Over the course of the walk, I found out she was going down to San Antonio to visit her grandkids, and I told her I was off to New York. I never told her I was Indian.
If ever asked what type of Indian you are (and yes, I have had to clarify as well), you can simply say “I’m Indian (point to the ‘dot’ on your forehead) – not Indian (make the two feather symbol behind your head) in a rapid fashion. I find this gets a good laugh, as long as you are with people who are ok with that type of humour.
So, you don’t mean Asian-Americans or Middle Eastern-Americans?
Don’t mean to make any ladies feel intimidated to share their experiences. One thing is though, especially in places like bars, clubs, concerts, most of the men there are probably not all that interested in the women as individuals, many times they are just looking for a one night stand or a very short term relationship. Thats just the reality of those venues.
If they try to stop you on the street or in a restaurant or store, they MIGHT be into getting to know you as a person and establishing a friendship, then dating, then a relationship, but even in those places, many guys would prefer a one night stand or very short term, non-monogamous relationship.
I don’t think guys who use pick up lines are looking for long term monogamous relationships with the women they use them on, do you?
random thots.
1. o c’mon. it isnt that bad especially when you’re from a city where everyone is from elsewhere. but that’s ok. i know i’m blessed. air kisses all around
Taz sez ‘LADIES’! hehe…
Samosamancer… i like that name.
dont get defensive peeps to be asked of your heritage and to have it rightly guessed as indian. it’s a very strong brand in northam. people chill out. for all the previous gens who’ve laid the path for me and mine, I say, “Thank you!”. Your good karma serves us well.
Khoofi is listening to kkazzer and drinking maple infused vanilla tea. my head’s very confused. i need to lie down or go eat a moose.
Being mistaken for Lumbee isn’t so bad. Right?
Still. It surprises me that someone would be bold enough to hit on you by practising his Hindi.
She didn’t say the Egyptian man was “hitting” on her. There is such a thing as just making conversation. I do it all the time when travelling and I’m not interested in dating or sleeping with the people I do it with/to.
People interacting with each other in a non-sexual way?
This is madness. MADNESS I SAY!
I am not making this up – I was walking along with my young cousin from India along Baltimore’s harbor and one Black female came over to him and asked him if he knew Sanskrit. I was like huh.. ? My poor cousin didn’t know what to make of the question though.
At least a crowd of people didn’t defer to him on providing emergency medical care to a guy who collapsed in the middle of the street.
Thankfully I actually AM certified for first aid (or was at the time at least). But they didn’t know that!
Still. It surprises me that someone would be bold enough to hit on you by practising his Hindi.
I don’t think those two people – the Egyptian and the white American on the metro – were hitting on me; To me they just wanted to make conversation with an Indian, maybe after watching recently seeing Slumdog or a bollywood movie.
Being mistaken for Lumbee isn’t so bad. Right? Umm…I actually didn’t say being mistaken for something I’m not is bad…but now that you mention it, it gets old (and it has nothing to do with if I can find a photo of a pretty N. American), particularly when you try and explain where INdia is, and the people don’t know where Asia is…this was something that regularly happened to me in my school days. And it’s also annoying b/c I do love my desi heritage, and it’s such a part of my identity in some very important ways, that I don’t like that identity regularly being replaced by Pocohantas.
The black female was probably a student and studying something having to do with sanskrit, needed help, took a chance.
Word! That’s totally how I felt last week when all this went down. Plus, I was in front of Samosa House which added to the annoyance.
Whose Virus Is It Anyways – Link through the first hyperlink – it’s a yelp review of Samosa House. One step ahead. 😉
Ladies, do you really think that guys who are looking to hook up for a few hours (at most) are really going to analyse what they say when they see a woman they would like to spend a few hours with? In these situtions there is a need for speed and they usually say the first thing that pops into their minds. The bottom line is, they don’t really care where you are from or what you are. They are just attracted to your body and the prospect of spending a few hours with it a.s.a.p.
Harsh but true.
“if you’re rich, I’m single”
I once told a girl at a stereotype filled Bollywood party I threw that it was tradition to make out after dancing in Indian culture. It worked.
Don’t judge me.
Touche!