I’m a life-long Democrat, but one aspect of the Democratic party message that has at times bothered me in recent years is the tendency towards protectionism. It was one of the things (among many) that annoyed me about John Kerry’s campaign, and I was somewhat relieved that Obama wielded this axe a bit more lightly during his campaign, at least after Iowa (notice how most of that talk about NAFTA disappeared too?).
During a bad recession with spiralling unemployment, of course, any earlier caution we might have seen from politicians regarding protectionism is going to be in danger. Congressional politicians from both parties are increasingly turning to populist language to ensure their own political survival. And the easiest group to pick on politically in recent years, by both Republicans and Democrats, has been immigrants, since they can’t vote anyway.
As many readers may already be aware, the recent American economic stimulus bill contained explicit language concerning foreign workers in the U.S.:
The stimulus bill contained the Employ American Workers Act, which was sponsored by Sens. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) and Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.). They say that they are worried that laid-off Americans struggling to find work are being displaced by foreign junior investment analysts, computer programmers and corporate lawyers who accept a fraction of the pay commanded by Americans.
“This H-1B program is a sweetheart deal for employers, in many instances, to be able to gain cheap labor from abroad,” Sanders, the son of a Polish immigrant, said in a telephone interview. “Immigration made this country great. But ask those American laid-off workers if they want $40,000-a-year engineers from Russia or India taking the place of an American engineer who would earn $80,000 a year. I don’t think anyone is going to tell me with a straight face that they can’t find some of that American talent right here on the unemployment lines.” (link)
Actually, Senator Sanders, I’m perfectly happy to tell you, with a straight face, that American IT companies are deeply dependent on foreign workers, whose positions could not easily be filled by American counterparts. Also, I can assure you that are not thousands of unemployed American software engineers on unemployment because Indian and Russian engineers in the U.S. are getting paid $40,000. Indeed, I’m fairly sure that H-1B engineers from India are getting paid considerably more than $40,000 a year on average.
The clampdown on foreign workers is also occurring in financial institutions, especially those that are getting federal bailout money:
During the past several months, the largest banks in the United States have announced 100,000 job cuts, Sanders said. Those same banks, which are receiving $150 billion in a taxpayer-funded bailout package, requested visas for more than 21,800 foreign workers over the past six years for positions such as senior vice presidents, corporate lawyers and human resources specialists, Sanders said, citing an Associated Press review of visa applications that the banks filed with the Labor Department.
As the economy worsened last year and employees were laid off, the number of visas sought by the dozen banks in the AP analysis increased by nearly a third, from 3,258 in fiscal 2007 to 4,163 in fiscal 2008.
What do readers make of the growing drift towards protectionism in American political discourse? How do you feel about the “Employ American Workers Act”? Are there effective ways to counter protectionist thinking during a recession? And: have any of these changes affected you or someone you know personally?
As a side note, I have heard some talking heads on TV–I forget who–arguing that in fact one possibly effective way to counter the housing slump might actually be an increase in high-skilled immigration: highly skilled immigrants in well-paying jobs might eventually start buying up all those empty condos everywhere. But that seems like kind of a strange argument to make right now, since, really, it seems like no one is hiring.
Also see: this Forum thread on the Employ American Workers Act at Immigration Voice. And here is an earlier SM post of mine related to the plight of Indian H-1B workers.
ponniyin – I am with you on this point. Citizens first. To all the H1B holders on this site – tell me seriously how many of your jobs cant be done by American citizens. The largest applicants are TCS /Satyam / Wipro. I worked in the outsourcing business for many years (not recently and we sniggered at the dumb americans who let us take good jobs away. For every H1B tech job in google there are 100 applications for Application Support – something that any high school grad with one year of training can do. Seriously, if folks think that highly specialized skills are required to work in the Indian outsourcers, they need to get out more.
43 Ponniyin Selvan makes a good point. I think some IBDs today see it as their birthright to emigrate to the US/Canada/Australia, which is not necessarily helpful to India (especially if those who want to immigrate received subsidized educations from IITs and whatnot), and also only serves as a temporary patch to labor shortages in the developed world.
In the US, we need structural change in the educational system, especially in economically depressed rural and urban environments, to start producing the engineers and doctors that the US labor market wants, rather than simply importing people. Taking the best from India/China/Russia ignores serious socio-economic and racial issues in the US that lead to failing schools and lack of highly-skilled workers (among other things).
The “Bombay club” complained that internal competition was not adequate and it was unfair to import foreign firms. India does not need foreign capital – a free internal market with modest regulation would be more than adequate.
I know that economists tend to agree that all trade is good!!! But given their predictions or the lack of it over the last year or so – I dont necessarily accept their modelling.
I agree with this. I forsee this immigration turmoil engulfing the US university system in the near future which are not so holier than thou as compared to US industry as many people prob think. Most of the grunt work of teaching, grading, TA is done by grad students including adjunct profs at a pittance…In fact in one of the links posted in the comment above there are claims that –
Postdoc crisis And note to add to this there is this huge postdoc system (many of whom are also on H1Bs ) with its own attendant problems begging the question as to why univs are churning out phds year after year when the job market cannot support them.
In the US, we need structural change in the educational system, especially in economically depressed rural and urban environments, to start producing the engineers and doctors that the US labor market wants, rather than simply importing people. Taking the best from India/China/Russia ignores serious socio-economic and racial issues in the US that lead to failing schools and lack of highly-skilled workers (among other things).
in a profession like medicine medical school admissions policies serve as a conscious limiting rate for new MDs. and theoretically in fields like engineering if you limited labor supply then wages should start going up, pulling more people into the labor pool. i’m not sure how much granting more college degrees will do on the margins here. engineering is a field which a relatively high dropout rate for those who begin freshmen year in it because many people simply can’t hack the math & science, and these are people already going to college now.
Compare that with an American kid who (I guess) comes out with a 200,000$ student loan on his/her head and need to get a job and work on the job before he/she pays off the loans. If they buy a home (which almost every one does) they have to pay off their mortgages too.
the average student loan debt load is around $20,000 last i checked.
This worker policy is also very similar to the protectionist trade policies we are seeing as of late – which only EXTENDED the Great Depression. Countries’ GDP grows during times of trades; hence the U.S.’ steady growth over a one hundred year period, and China and India’s recent explosion.
actually, probably not (though they didn’t help). tariffs were already high before the smoot-hawley tariff act. and a much smaller % of the USA economy was trade exchange than today. see A Splendid Exchange: How Trade Shaped the World. also, immigration was cut-off in 1924, well before the great depression.
..and then I see this massive reflexive protectionism in America to the relatively miniscule threat by H1Bs and cant help feeling that we (as in India and other developing countries who were so eager to hop on to the Clintonwagon of globalization)have been had….many of us who at the time who reflexively opposed the socialists would be sobered by this self-preserving and ultimately hypocritical reaction in the mother of captalist economies….
different countries have different needs. a much higher % of the economy of the netherlands is involved in direct transactions with parties outside of the netherlands. south korea and japan grew on export based economies driven in part on american consumption. large countries depend less on trade than small countries and can probably weather de-globalization much more easily. there’s internal comparative advantage in a nation like the USA, with 300 million people and a lot of land & resources. yes, western nations are hypocritical. people look out for their self-interest, principles for thee, what’s good for me for me. that being said, there can still be an argument that for small countries the more trade the better, no matter what the other party does, right?
americans are spoiled. we demand a high consumption level and a high standard of living no matter the fact that for many the skills advantages might not warrant it in a flat world or level playing field. that being said there’s a lot of sentiment in the USA that “our” workers should be cushioned and coddled even though the economic shock is going to be far less stressful than for societies where there isn’t a safety net.
The dark side of Dubai.
I’m in total agreement with Ponniyin and Melbourne Desi. Almost all the H1’s and L1’s who came on H1/L1 I know are happy go lucky. They know that the companies are making money through them, and they are making money as well. And they are almost ready to pack bags and get home whenever they are booted out.
But it is a different story with people who did their Masters here. Not all come with assistantships and they accrue quite a lot of debt on their credit cards paying the fees. Not getting a job here is a big hit for them.
also, there is social science data that the “brain drain” isn’t much of an issue today for big countries like india or china. H1Bs are probably almost always a net positive because of the networks they forge.
Thanks, that seems pretty low though.. what’s the average tuition fees per year in America
My co-workers gave me that figure. Probably they went to private schools out of state and added all the boarding and lodging costs.
SKR at comment # 37 is right. So many H1B holders have fake, absolutely fraudulent resumes and thereby take jobs away from American born IT workers. The truly highly skilled foreign labor is needed but the jobs that many of these H1B holders do is something that unemployed American workers are able to do. It’s all about the price of the labor. H1Bs will work for much less and that’s all that matters to the business lobby that keeps insisting ever more H1Bs are necessary. It’s not a matter of lack of workers.
My co-workers gave me that figure. Probably they went to private schools out of state and added all the boarding and lodging costs.
yes. 75% of bachelor’s degrees are awarded from public universities, and a majority of those in state. but you wouldn’t know that if you encountered people on wall street or silicon valley. also, those with professional school degrees (business school, law school and med school) have debt loads closer to what are talking about. here’s a list of average tuition for public institutions by state. probably add 150% to that for board + expenses minimum.
Thanks, that’s informative. That makes me think the anti H1-B crowd is probably from those ranks. 🙂
Thanks, that’s informative. That makes me think the anti H1-B crowd is probably from those ranks. 🙂
superstar workers with mondo-human capital probably benefit from globalization, no matter whether it’s capital or labor. they’re already in a globalized labor pool no matter what. no, the people who are anxious are those whose skills can be easily substituted. they were lucky to be born americans and worry about a level playing field.
I’m here in the US on an H1B, and i know that my wage is comparable to what an american worker would get. Most of the IT workers that i know on H1’s are also on comparable wages. It’s a gross generalization to say that most H1Bs are fraudulently taking jobs away from american workers .
razib, I agree that H1Bs are a positive for the suppliers eg India /China but for the USA – very doubtful. USA does not need more immigrants – legal or otherwise. 300M is big enough for a sustainable economy. Australia /NZ on the other hand need more – way more. If the USA shuts down trade, who is the biggest loser? Certinaly not USA. Countries like Singapore / Australia / Sweden suffer way more than the USA.
rajiv if the pay is comparable, then what value are you adding ? Are your skills so unique that the firm had to ship you all the way from India. Also you said comparable rather than same ? I am not blaming you or DBDs. ( I was on the B1 – L1 – H1B treadmill) DBDs on H1Bs can pack up and leave any time but long time citizens or other ABDs have less choice. Every country’s citizen /native born has first call on all resources including jobs. Yes it is luck to be born in a rich country but then it is also luck to be born to a rich father. A child has first call on the parents wealth before other children. This is tantamount to abandoning ones’ children to feed the slum children. When times are tough, take care of one’s own kids. It is a different equation when things are good.
Wasn’t one of the sole reasons for passing the stimulus package to cut unemployment? In that case, I don’t understand what is wrong having stipulations that make sure that corporations getting money from the government should hire permanent residents and citizens – this goes for bailout money as well….
I wouldn’t worry too much though. I really think there are so many loopholes, that it won’t matter. Ultimately, many positions are contracted out anyways, since major companies hate paying benefits. I think we’re seeing a lot of questionable claims and outright fraud by various (mostly Indian) consulting firms. Like others, I’ve heard of some “consulting” firms basically churning out fake resumes and fake W2s as well. Of course the people are desperate to stay so they join these.
I do believe that the green card process has to be expedited. It’s ridiculous how long it takes to get it. My cousin has been in line for one, for 6+ years. Start expediting the process, bring down unemployment, and then worry about raising the cap.
Few H1Bs are ‘real’ engineers. Most are your average B.Sc/ B.Com types, who do a course or two in Java (or the software flavor of the month), pad their resumes with fake experience, and hop on the H1B bus. And we call this the ‘high tech’ industry. This program has been heavily misused, and honestly, there is a lot of blame to go around. The natives have stopped coming to the ‘high tech’ industry for mostly another reason. Career growth prospects are horrible, since the upper rungs of most IS/IT organizations are staffed with MBA generalists, who look down upon the ‘nerds’. Again, software is the only ‘tech’ field that has exhibits this strange pattern. (You typically don’t see generalists heading up finance, microbiology, accounting or chemical engineering departments).
.razib, I agree that H1Bs are a positive for the suppliers eg India /China but for the USA – very doubtful. USA does not need more immigrants – legal or otherwise. 300M is big enough for a sustainable economy. Australia /NZ on the other hand need more – way more. If the USA shuts down trade, who is the biggest loser? Certinaly not USA. Countries like Singapore / Australia / Sweden suffer way more than the USA.
the part about india and china, and australia & nz, are totally agree with. otoh, the part about the USA is more dicey IMO. in the short term you are totally correct, and in fact, by a broad definition of sustainable the US doesn’t need any immigration. the US has very little immigration proportional to its population between 1924-1965. it’s an empire unto itself. otoh, what about beyond the bounds of sustainability and toward economic growth? i believe that economic productivity growth is driven by innovation, and that innovation arises from individuals with a unique combination of skills as well as luck. specifically, i’m talking about people with technical skills. on the margin i don’t think that thousands of HB1s are necessary to sustain the US economy, but over the long term i believe that once they get naturalized one can make the case that a subset of these are likely to be entrepreneurs and innovators, and i tend to favor that.
There is one thing I dont understand, probably as I am in India. If a lot of the H1-Bs have fake experience on their resume, how are they getting jobs in the first place? Dont the american companies that employ them have any screening standards or interviews in the first place. I find it hard to believe that people with fake experiences (implying that they are not qualified or competent) can secure jobs so easily? Or is it that the American employer is willing to sacrifice quality to save some bucks? Here in India to get a somewhat decent job, we have to go through so many rounds of interviews, written tests (Technical/non technical), group discussions etc. Any half decent interviewer can sniff out a fake resume a mile away.
Why all this hate on people who have so called “fraudulent” resumes as opposed to those who hire them. And if they are hired that means they are qualified for the job. I find it hard to believe that employers will hire incompetent people to save money, unless the people are competent and deliver good quality work but are willing to work for less money.
i concur. I think that 300M is a large enough population to find those individuals and to drive improvements. Immigrants are not the sole owners of these skills – in fact there is a significant socilization cost before an immigrant becomes productive.
often american companies dont employe them directly. They come through “consulting” firms. Fake experience is easy – say you know Word 2007 very well when you have worked with only Word 2003. not hard to learn 2007 if you have worked with 2003. Spread this across all IT jobs. not saying that americans dont do it 🙂
mix of both. the valid point that the Anti-H1B brigade makes is that only unique skills need to be imported – the rest is available locally. Labour markets are not global nor should they be. Neither should capital markets but that is a different discussion.
Immigrants are not the sole owners of these skills – in fact there is a significant socilization cost before an immigrant becomes productive.
i agree. the point though is that it increases the sample space of possible innovators. IOW, i don’t think there are a finite # of slots for innovators which a population of 300 mil can fulfill, but a number which is undefined and proportional to population size and character (i.e., i think innovators have a particular intellectual & personality profile). additionally, i also think that the institutional framework of the united states is more optimized for ‘unleashing’ human capital than in many nations. but as i said above, i do not think innovation is necessary for a sustainable affluent society. at least the current levels of innovation which increase productivity and wealth (there will necessarily have to be constant innovation in fields like antibiotics to maintain current levels of public health because microbes evolve).
After 60 years of “independence” desis remain at the bottom of the global hierarchy desperately lining up for jobs in other countries, like the H1Bs. Though the H1Bs are treated far better than the desi slaves in arabia:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
“They have been in Dubai for 20 years, and they are happy to explain how the city works. “You’ve got a hierarchy, haven’t you?” Ann says. “It’s the Emiratis at the top, then I’d say the British and other Westerners. Then I suppose it’s the Filipinos, because they’ve got a bit more brains than the Indians. Then at the bottom you’ve got the Indians and all them lot.”
By the way I am guessing that the motivation for changing the name Bombay to Mumbai was to make it sound like the glittering slave-built city-state of Dubai.
Doesn’t the 300M population pool has a large percent of people in the 65+ range?
Melbourne Desi,
I only mentioned the comparable wage as there seems to be a view that we’re on a way lower salary than an American with comparable experience. (I wasn’t ‘shipped’ over from India either, not all desi H1Bs come from South Asia !)
I’m not sure why you think its easier for H1Bs to up sticks and leave. A lot of people have homes they would have to sell, kids in schools etc. A lot of Americans work abroad as well, and I knew a quite a few in my home town before i came to the US. I guess a lot of other countries will probably follow similar protectionist policies and those Americans overseas may have to return .
There are valid points in looking to safeguard jobs for Americans in the current economy, but unfortunately a lot of the rhetoric in the anti-h1b campaigns does tend to have a racist element to it, especially where they generalise that we’re all a bunch of frauds living on slave wages and ‘stealing’ jobs .
I don’t see immigration to the US as some sort of ‘right’, however the system could do with being overhauled and simplified.
coz heaps of H1Bs have done so especially if you are from one of the outsourcing firms – I was one of them too.
totally agree. INS is a mess and for no good reason. Sort of like universal healthcare – every other country seems to have got a handle on it but the USA. Rajiv, maybe you have unique skills and hence you are ‘needed’ but a vast majority of the H1B’s and L1s dont have unique skills and bring no benefit to the USA. Most H1B and L1s have average skills despite 4 years of engineering and compete with an average american worker who not expecting competition loses. It is not a win-win situation and it is not a good outcome for American society. No point winning if in the process one destroys the society that you are living in.
And how old were you at the time? And how did your wife feel about it? And your kids?
True, there are nice parts about moving from place to place – interesting experiences, getting to dab in different cultures lifestyles etc. But not having a stable place to live takes a toll in many ways. H1s might think it is a worthwhile trade-off, but the remember, others have the same options as well, and usually with less restrictions. And as time goes by, the trade-offs become less worthwhile.
Also, TCS, Infy, Wipro, etc offer a social net, which mitigates some of the sting from moving from place to place. This is not true for all H1s. For someone who has a H-1 from a US employer, layoffs are much more painful. They often have made longer term plans, in some cases they could be in the queue for a GC, etc and moving back takes a much larger toll.
Even accounting for various bad habits, in my experience, H1s are far more likely to do whatever it takes to get the job done than their typical American counterparts. My guess is because overall, Indian techies come from a more ambitious stock than their US counterparts (probably because of most of the ambitious US students gravitate to other streams where the reward/work ratio is much better than IT).
Melbourne Desi,
Reading a few of your comments initially, I guessed it right – you are another former B1/L1/H1 holder from an outsourcing firm who recently got his GC, and thus suddenly felt it was right to protect American (read ‘resident’) workers from the slave workers from another country 🙂
Well, we all don’t come from India/China (not that there is anything wrong with it), and we are not necessarily sponsored by some outsourcing firm. A lot of us paid for education here, and have been employed by local companies. We might also have long term plan to settle down here and have family. It’s a much more painful process for those of us who made a life here to suddenly pack our bags and leave. We are also taxpayers who don’t receive much benefit from the tax.
Blaming H1 holders for depressing the salary takes away attention from the real causes – 1. H1 holders are tied to work for only sponsoring company – enabling the company offer a salary lower than what he/she would otherwise command in an open market, or rather preventing him/her to seek out the best opportunity available; 2. allowing companies to contract out the positions/projects to outsourcing companies who could, in turn, have foreign workers do it at a lower cost either in their home countries or have some temporary workers come down to complete it.
One more thing I would like to add here: everyone likes to point out the unemployment rate at 8.5% in the US currently. Has anyone ever looked at the break down of this rate by academic qualification? Like, say the rate for college grads VS peopel who didn’t go to college? Interesting indeed!
I am probably too ideological/”un-nuanced” on this issue, but IMHO, the more H1B’s/skilled immigrants we get in the US, the better! And not much more to be said on the topic, other than to oppose those whose fight against it.
I do favor limits (not zero!) on unskilled immigrants/illegal immigrants, though–we are not living in libertarian world, and they impose real costs on us–see, e.g., the work of Cuban-born Harvard professor George Borjas.
Has anyone else noticed that Rajiv, Another H1B, and other H1B/L1 commenters go out of their way to mention they are NOT from desiland?
Aree yaar you are from desiland (not that there is anything wrong with it):
Good Sir, did you pass out with 95% marks in electronics and communication eng. from Pune college of engineering and then completed master’s in double EE from Kalamazoo? FT ranked Pune college of engineering in top 100 in world and Kalamazoo in top 10 master’s engineering program.
I agree with #52:
Long-term its in the best interest of the U.S. to produce more scientists, doctors and engineers to compete with China/Russia and other emerging economies.
Wow, there are some pretty big assumptions built into that model, like the “untrustworthyness” of the “immigrant” student. Why wouldn’t the most successful country take the talent where it finds it, wherever on the globe? Unless they’re a “threat”??
I fully support H1B’s/L1s for hot/sexy/cute fob girls ;). I don’t know how much value-added they could add to a company and U.S. economy; but I would fully lobby my local congressman/senator for validating H1B’s/L1’s from desiland based on aryan features and light skin.
OK, I hate you–let me guess–you’re Punjabi??
HinduMan:
You went out of your way to wear your religion on ID – all the while trying to mock others for writing down an assumption on country of origin? Nice try! I may or may not be a desi from desiland – I don’t see how that matters. It does matter, however, when someone suggests that one can just live here for 5+ years, and then on a sudden notice, pack his/her bag and leave – as if it didn’t matter at all. I am just another H1B holder who is made a scapegoat due to the flaws in current system. That’s all.
Also, your point on the role of academic qualification in terms of unemployment rate as a reply to my comment is lame at best. Have you even understood what I was trying to say? I never made any comment on desi engineering institutions specifically.
I think I have mentioned this before. Anyways, there are many types of H1Bs. The important ones are
1: The students who come to the US for undergrad / grad school, complete their degrees, get an OPT to work for a year (which has been increased to 2 years last year) and then move on to H1B
2: Indian / non-US companies get projects in the US and bring their employees on H1 visas to do the work. Of late, due to the anti H1 propaganda they have started using more L1s to do the same.
In categories 1 and 2 there are lesser chances of fraud. It is category 3 where there is a higher risk or possibility of fraud. People indulge in fraudulent resumes and fake job offers etc. This is not to say anyone who gets into US thru category 3 has used fraudulent means.
Now, H1 is a temporary visa and anyone who is on that category should ideally not plan long term things like buying a million dollar home / boat etc. So you can’t blame the American government for any decisions you have made 🙂
Getting a green card is a messed up process with country specific quotas and stuff. It takes many years and will seem like eternity. I understand that it is tough but that isn’t that what the H1Bs signed up for. Again I emphasise that working in the US is a privilege and not a right.
haven;t been keeping up with the h1-b focused coments, but in general, i find this protectionism concept in american political discourse a bit disconcerting. first off, one thing i have noticed in the recession is this continued champion of the open/capitalistic markets while simultaneously expecting subsidies and the such. not that i am so pro-capitalism (i tend to lean towards socialism) but the fake rhetoric is frustrating and arguably, capitalism has not worked (or, maybe the better argument is that capitalism was never totally allowed to work because in the end, companies knew there would be help from the government and acted accordingly). secondly, this protectionism always comes with a sense of racism and xenophobia, which at this point in time, only adds to that which we have been experiencing post 9/11. further, as the comments here suggest, the economic reality of these policies seems not to be in sync with their objectives/rhetoric, and a lot of the same issues with the anti-outsourcing arguments come to mind – i.e. focusing on individual employees vs focusing on the cost-cutting that will keep the companies in business and benefit the economy in whole and, hopefully, eventually create more jobs in america itself.
of course it’s not a right. but these discussions oftentimes come with an explicit or implicit notion that somehow certain people have less of a right to be here as immigrants, whilst forgetting the history of this country as one of immigrants. this part always irks me to no end.
sorry mate – close but you are off by a hemisphere. Citizen of Australia – 4 years now 🙂 – hence the tag – Melbourne. Was on B1 – then moved to L1 then to H1 – left once I realized that the INS is rigged. Have talked about this earlier as well.
no wife or kids – single person. mid twenties. I agree with you that L1 and H1 personnel are hungrier than the native born.
Dizzy – am not disputing your statements that it is harder to move once you have family. I am arguing that the anti H1B position is not as untenable as is made out.
may i ask why ? would like to know how you arrived at your position
Lesser US money spent on training, the supplement the ageing population are two reasons I can think of.
If I’m to understand some of the posters in this thread the US badly needs Indian engineers because Americans are incompetent, fat and stupid.
Yet many of these same posters clearly want to be here because they’re paid more here than they would be paid in India (or have more rights, better schools, education, cleaner water etc.).
So why not go back to India and make it a better place so millions of Desis don’t need to go overseas to find work?
I searched if anyone typed “fat” in this comments section. the first hit I get is from your comment.
I think there should be a cap on American evangelists trolling the backstreets of the developing world. I find it very ironic that for all the values about freedom that America trumpets, we get as desperate as the annybody else when times are tough and look for scapegoats. I guess 65k well dressed, mostly well behaved folks are a much better target than an amorphous blob of 12million. Its like the mortgage mess – we’ll go after the guy who owes 100k on his home but we won;t do anything tangible about the banks because no one can even define the problem.