This Sunday, I woke up to an email from a girlfriend who is not Desi. She said that there was a really thought-provoking article in the New York Post, which reminded her of some of our conversations. She thought I might enjoy it. Enjoy it? I could have written parts of it. It was about Dating While Brown– and dating other Browns, to be specific.
The piece was called, “MELTING NOT: Why Young People Like me Started Dating Within our Race“. In it, NYP reporter Raakhee Mirchandani wrote a sensitive, honest explanation of her views on love– and I can just imagine the nastiness she might be encountering because of it.
It’s never easy to put yourself out there, so I salute her for doing so. Besides, with this issue, you can’t win. You date outside your community and you’re either a sell-out, desperate or a coconut. Date within it and you’re insular, insecure and biased. Ugh. Can’t we all just get along? I hope we can remember to be kind to one another, as we discuss an issue which affects all of us, albeit in different ways. We’ve got to let love rule, or whatever Lenny screams. On to the story.
::
I know so many friends, whose experience mirrored this:
Growing up, the man in my dreams was a mystery; he was white, he was tall, he was dark, he was slick. He was always handsome. In my fantasy it didn’t matter if he was Catholic or Muslim, European or African, if he ate pigs or worshipped monkeys. It didn’t matter if he understood that I came from a rich tradition of Indian Hindus who were strict vegetarians, quietly conservative, obsessively dedicated to family and maniacal in their love for cheesy song-and-dance movies with mediocre acting and music.
And so when we met, freshman year at Boston University – the street smart Eastern European with a gorgeous smile, big heart and wicked sense of humor and the artsy Indian girl with a penchant for big hair, Bollywood and Biggie -it seemed like the perfect cross-continental match.
Ah, Biggie. I pour some of my Robitussin with Codeine out for you.
But somewhere along our six years together, the Indian girl from Jersey, who had naively promised him Catholic children, steak dinners and consistently defended his refusal to hang with my family as a simple difference in opinion, had a change of heart. And he did, too.
I remember him looking at me on an evening not far from our last and saying, “It’s like all of a sudden you became Indian.” In a way so quiet I didn’t even realize it was happening, the brown from my skin must have seeped in and colored my heart.
That line just slays me. I project emotions and explanations all over it. Is it accusatory? A blurt of hurt? Is becoming “Indian” a negative thing? The defending “his refusal to hang with my family” is also poignant. America may be a country of individuals, but most of us who are of South Asian descent are tightly tied to our families, for better or for worse. No one wants to be caught in that vise between one love and another.
Surprisingly, I’m not the only one. While the rate of intermarriage among races increased over the past half-century, the last decade has seen a reversal – particularly among Asians and Latinos. According to a Ohio State University study, from 1990-2000 the number of Hispanics marrying outside their race fell from 27% to 20%, while Asian intermarriage dropped from 42% to 33%.
I’m no Razib, but this matches what I feel like I’m witnessing around me (and yes, this is the same stat Abhi mentioned in this post). At one point, if I saw a second- or third-generation Asian-American with an Asian spouse, I was surprised, because so many of my friends had married “out”. Now, I see a reversal of that. Maybe it’s easier for us to find each other, thanks to the internets. Then again, maybe Ohio State and I are full of it (highly probable– I’m supposed to be a Michigan fan).
After brushing it off for so long, many of my relatives and friends are listening to that nagging voice in our collective heads. You know, the one that sounds like a hybrid of your mom/dad/grandparent/aunt/uncle/neighbor-in-the-old-country telling you in heavily accented English, “Have you found anyone yet, dahling? Can we introduce you to Mr. Kapoor’s son? He is doctor. Ven vill you finally give us good news?” Despite my better efforts to buck the traditional Indian girl inside me – glossy black locks turned to bleached blond in a weak moment of teen angst; pre-med was never an undergraduate option and much to my parents chagrin; I have always favored copious amounts of worthless costume jewels over precious museum-grade family heirlooms – I discovered that I’m not really that much of a rebel after all.
Yeah, me neither. Well, except for the remaining defiantly single at 34 bit. Maybe it’s because I’ve retired all five pairs of my Doc Martens, but I don’t feel like a rebel…until grateful letters from some of you label me as such; “I’m so glad there’s another Desi girl who isn’t married…I’m 26 and the pressure is horrid!”
Note to 26-year old: don’t allow yourself to be rushed in to a damned thing. The people who nag you to get hitched now won’t be sympathetic to you if you separate or get a divorce. Then you’ll be THAT girl, the one with the “past”.
Even if you end up happily married, they will never stop butting in to your life, because sometime after your wedding reception commences, they’ll be demanding a schedule for when you’ll be procreating offspring, or where you’ll be purchasing a home. As I like to say to my long-suffering Mother: “If I don’t get on that merry-go-round, I don’t have to worry about vomiting.”
You third-generation tykes owe us big. We smug singles are facing the wrath of our community now, so that one day you can actually take advantage of this “30 is the new 20” bullshit, and go to weddings, funerals, housewarmings or any other Desi-infested event without cringing, or hiding from the Auntie mafia in your car. Don’t worry about thanking us, just hook us up when we’re 65, since Social Security isn’t going to do it.
Back to Raakhee:
During the Obama campaign, commentators asked if younger people were growing up in a colorblind society. I certainly hope it’s a more tolerant one – but not blind. Living in harmony doesn’t mean camouflaging our differences, or denying that we have any. And while I would never judge an Indian person who chose an interracial relationship – love in whatever way it comes is flawless – I know that I could never do it again.
I could never do it in the first place, mostly because of what I’ve bolded below:
Relationships are hard enough, no matter who you love. Maintaining and sustaining them requires a combination of courage, compromise and dedication. But there’s a comfort in building a solid foundation with someone who comes from a similar place. I don’t want to have to explain the minutia of my complex culture, hoping for both understanding and approval. I want to begin on equal footing, roots already firmly planted in a common garden.
I’m more of a wanna-be geek, so my declaration contained something like, “I want someone pre-loaded with all this software, I don’t want to have to install anything”. Please don’t tell me if that makes no sense. 馃檪 Just focus on my alternate line, “I ain’t no one’s cultural tour guide.” Classy, I know. That almost sounds like I hate non-Desis. Not at all. In some of those memorable instances, I desperately didn’t want to be the object of someone’s fetish or part of that one guy’s UN fantasy which involved…well, you get the picture. Even if the rare non-Desi guy who expressed interest didn’t fall in to one of those two weird categories, I worried that having to explain every little thing or answer a plethora of questions would become exhausting.
Yet I know friends and family who feel the exact opposite of such sentiments (well…not the UN thing). They love sharing who we are with their significant others from different backgrounds. They relish building bridges by spreading the Brown love and Gods bless them for it. I just can’t do it, Captain. To each, our own, right?
What’s right for me or Raakhee isn’t even right for some of my immediate family members. While Raakhee found her prince, two of my girls got no love or interest from boys within our community; that’s not an exaggeration. I could write horrifying posts about the Desi boys who met them and said, “You’re much darker than I thought you would be”, or similar ugliness. I had a Cross Colors shirt in the early 90s which said, “Love see no color”. We could easily amend it to: “Stupidity see no color.” A douche is a douche, regardless of race.
Those two beautiful women are now marrying outside of our community, and I’m glad for it. I’m not implying that only people who strike out with brown go hunting elsewhere. I’m just mentioning two specific family members who are marrying amazing people and that matters more than skin. If brown boys/girls aren’t feeling you, to hell with them. If you only find that “amazing” with someone whose Mom makes sambar too (guilty), then more hand soap to you. We each need to make this decision for ourselves (are you reading, 26-year old?? You’re fine! Stay strong!).
I’m the kind of girl who is as comfortable worshipping multi-armed deities as she is worshipping at Chanel. The kind who can easily wrap herself in to a 5-yard sari in a public bathroom but much prefers Uggs and leggings. Certainly the kind who washes down a spicy curry with a glass of Johnny on the rocks.
Yeah, I’m just going to state for the record right now that I could never put a sari on in a public bathroom. I don’t even like to put a sari on in my current apartment, because the full-length mirror is unfortunately near where I put on and take off shoes, near the door. Eeek. Oh, Raakhee, you are a better ladki than I. While you’re not asking, I also like Black and coke instead, thanks!
That makes me Indian and American, and the truth is, it’s easier when someone understands the first part of that as much as the latter.
YES. I agree, 100 percent. At the same time, I have noticed that interracial couples where both parties are from minority or “ethnic” backgrounds–which emphasize family– do seem to find some common ground.
So now I’ve taken the UPS approach to dating: What can brown do for me?
More than I ever thought.
Here comes her happy ending:
My current boyfriend, Agan, is the kind of Punjabi prince dreams are made of. He held me last year when Bombay burned and I broke. He high-fived me when “Slumdog” took home eight golden trophies and I squealed. He rolls his eyes when I talk about Yankee Stadium like it’s The Bronx version of the Golden Temple. He’s from the left (wrong) coast, you see; not everything can be Disney fairytales.
But he understands without questioning that I will live at home with my parents until I get married. That family obligations trump any evening plans we may have made. Without my suggesting it, he mentioned that when we grew up and had a house of our own, there would be room for both sets of parents, his and mine. I was enamored.
In that moment I knew why it never worked between me and anybody else. I had underestimated the power of my parenting, the grip of my culture and the strong but subtle shades of India that I reflect.
In less than a year he has earned his way into my parents’ hearts, fielding near daily text messages and e-mails from my mother, approving but curious glances from my father and even joining my brother in a weekly basketball league. It’s as if they already knew each other. And in a way they did.
Your mother can text?! Mine thinks GChat is annoying. Lucky you! Speaking of superior communication products made from Goo, I GMailed Raakhee to ask if anything important had been cut from the story. Sepia Mutiny: we’re like the DVD with deleted scenes! Here’s what she had to say:
What we had to cut from the essay which I thought was important was the idea that being Indian was something I had to grow in to. Not in a conscious way, but something I had to sort of become comfortable expressing. And just being.
Also, I grew up in a way I imagine many desi chicks did who are my age (27); I was a nerdy, hairy (omfg the ‘stache, the unibrow, the horror!) and completely convinced that I would never, ever date. I thought Indian guys wouldn’t get me and all the others would think I was gross. In a way, despite my ridic inflated sense of self (and trust me, i thought i was some super hot shit when i was younger!!), when it came to dating and relationships, I didn’t think I was good enough to date either, brown or white.
Oh, if that isn’t Junior year of high school revisited, I don’t know WHAT is. Sigh.
Back to the article, for the last two paragraphs:
Despite the countries we share, we are still different. His family is Sikh. He wears a turban. Mine are Hindu and we don’t accessorize. But the fundamentals are the same; family first and everything else next.
As usual my parents were right, bless their darling immigrant hearts. It turns out I am both New Delhi and New Jersey, and the man in my dreams finally has a face to reflect that.
I’m happy for you, Raakhee, the same way I’m happy for anyone who finds their lobster. Everyone deserves the bliss that is real love. We may have different desires, preferences, approaches to searching for it, or ways to label it, but in the end, we each want the same thing, no matter with whom we may find it.
that is impressive, amitabh; you get to be an honorary sindhi 馃檪 you might know some of my family in desh. i believe my grandfather straight out ruled out some qualified engineers and IAS officers for mum because they were shikarpuri/bhaiband (‘traders’/’business families’).
“somewhere there is a lady with a potbelly fetish,” said karan johar.
51 脗路 portmanteau said
If he really said that, then I might go and watch a movie made by him. He earned some brownie points from me (no pun intended)
Yeah, hi, welcome to my world, ca. 2004. Once your tall, blonde husband puts on a kurta-pajama, wears a tilak and helps his mother-in-law attach Goddess Varalakshmi to the coconut and sits through a puja better than your own relatives can, those million shattered pieces of their hearts quickly and miraculously reconstruct into a gigantic, beaming whole. And then you will wonder when you, their own daughter, became chopped liver as compared to her new husband (And yours is a doctor? Dear Lord.). Be careful what you wish for.
One very important point related to your query and this article: Being desi does not automatically and necessarily mean keeping your parents satisfied by sacrificing your happiness “doing the right thing” in their society’s eye. And the reality of it is not an either-or proposition. Most parents, however traditional, only want for their children to be truly happy. With that in mind, start right there, with what makes you truly happy and then answer these questions: 1) Is your parents’ culture yours in its entirety? If not, which parts of it are yours? Define those first. You have to understand your own Indian-ness first before asking someone to marry your parents. 2) Does this non-desi man love you, personality first, and is he willing to accept and appreciate your culture with open arms? When you give yourself and then your parents that level of confidence, it will all work out for the best.
Is this the first time you have actually agreed with a journalist? 馃榾
I really do feel for Americans of Indian descent. Even though I’m not using the acronym ABCD but it kinda makes sense to use it here, yeh?
Its weird because I dont see “ABDs” as D, I see them as Americans (unless they can speak punjabi and understand my punjabi, with NO accent). I like to stick with the international crowd, doesnt matter if they are white or brown or yellow or blue(because of the weather). I never really had “ABD” friends. Culturally they are very different from me, atleast I think so. It seems like a weird role reversal to me.
I don’t know if anyone else has observed this, but I’ve noticed a double standard when it comes to interracial dating/marriage, in that its more acceptable for Indian men to date/marry interracially than it is for Indian women to do so. I’ve seen this alot at wedding receptions; when its Indian woman/non-Indian man, the aunties go on about how “the girl doesn’t respect her culture” and “she has no respect for her family” and when its Indian man/non-Indian woman, the aunties are all silent but the uncles at the bar go on about what a player pimp the guy is.
Actually that’s only if you look at US Born Indo + US Born Indo marriages. If you examine the chart more closely it would actually seem to undercut the idea that outmarriage (if you see that as an indication of non-ethnic identification) is highest among Desis. In fact, it seems to be the lowest and I would think that the high prevalence of US Born + Indo Born Indian marriages would suggest a high level of cultural affiliation among ABDs.
If you look at US Raised + US Raised or Foreign Raised the number for Indians is the highest among Asians, especially among Indian females with the Vietnamese about tied. This stat could further be complicated among the Indian and Chinese numbers because of the flexibility of how we can define “ethnicity” (Indian vs. Kannada/Tamil/Assamese/etc. Do you call an Indo-Pak marriage an outmarriage?) So, depending on how the question was worded and what you’re concerned with it might actually be an undercount.
I don’t know if anyone else has observed this, but I’ve noticed a double standard when it comes to interracial dating/marriage, in that its more acceptable for Indian men to date/marry interracially than it is for Indian women to do so. I’ve seen this alot at wedding receptions; when its Indian woman/non-Indian man, the aunties go on about how “the girl doesn’t respect her culture” and “she has no respect for her family” and when its Indian man/non-Indian woman, the aunties are all silent but the uncles at the bar go on about what a player pimp the guy is.
Yes I have and its not just for weddings, even dating for a girl our community can be very dangerous.
Also I noticed in the picture that Raakhee boyfriend has drink in front of him. I hope its non-alocholic beverage due to the fact he is wearing a turban.
This is neither here not there, but I thought it was interesting she wanted someone who was white and dark at the same time…
The statistics show that Indian-American women and men outmarry at similar rates, and if there was a serious double standard, I don’t think the rates would be the same. I haven’t personally noticed this behavior either, though it may depend on location and community. If what you’re saying is true, then, man, those aunties and uncles are real pieces of work, to be saying that stuff at the actual wedding! The most despicable part is the ‘what a pimp’ attitude… not only is it disrespectful to the bride, it’s also humiliating to their own wives.
The most despicable part is the ‘what a pimp’ attitude… not only is it disrespectful to the bride, it’s also humiliating to their own wives.
Like many of them care what there wife thinks.
I’m a college student, and my parents (mostly my mother) are already starting to pressure me about marriage. (“If you’re doing medicine, you have to be married by 26, but since you’re not, 23.”) I like the idea of marrying a desi man, but I want it to be on my own terms, with a guy that I love and can see myself in a marriage with, not some family friend’s son who’s seen as a catch just because he’s a doctor (no offense to the medical professionals here). This is complicated by the fact that I’ve never been in a relationship and am a generally shy person, plus I’m just not very comfortable with my body since I’m overweight (I am, medically speaking, and I know it’s because of poor lifestyle habits; I’m not doing the stereotypical ‘I’m so fat!’ teenage girl thing). I don’t know what I’m trying to say here. I guess that, for one, it would be nice to actually have options. But also that if I don’t feel ready for a relationship now, I don’t see how I’ll be ready for marriage anytime soon. But I guess that’s part of a more American way of approaching marriage/relationships.
I see cases where 2nd-gen guys and girls get married to each other, but my impression is that the major cultural values they share that have cemented their relationships are wealth, education, status, etc. Perhaps that’s cynical of me, but some of my parents’ friends have already made ‘first bids’ on others’ children, i.e. upon finding out what college/med program their kids got into (and based on years of just knowing the other family, how their children are, etc.), they became closer with that family and then asked to consider the idea of marriage, then talked to their kids about it and introduced their kids to each other. Yeah, it kind of upsets me, because no one has made a ‘bid’ on me. I know it sounds ridiculous to be upset about that. But it seems like the Indian marriage market appraises people for just how much they’re worth, and this, plus the fact that I don’t exactly get a lot of attention from boys in the ‘Western’ scene either, has made me realize just how much of a catch I’m not. Thinking about love and relationships is really depressing for that reason.
But it seems like the
Indianmarriage market appraises people for just how much they’reworthlooks/money/statusI can’t help but disdain Desi people in a diverse country like America who deliberately restrict their courtship to their own kind. Then they’ll give excuses as to how this relationship is a different and intimate one than others. But if you look at their Facebook page, nine out of ten of their friends are fellow Desis. The chances are that if you are reading this then you conform to the type or you know someone close who does. It doesn’t stop at that. They’ll go to book readings by Desi writers, art shows by Desi artists, eat at Desi places, go to Desi happy hours and on and on and on. Will I be wrong in asking if that’s all you want to do to the exclusion of everything else that this society has to offer, then why don’t you just go to India where you’ll find all of that you love and much more.
Wooing and courting someone from your own stock is the easy way out. To do otherwise requires shedding parochialism the same way as you do when you try a foreign food. Some give excuses that well they did try it outside but it didn’t work. It didn’t work not because of a clash of cultures but most probably because you were with a douchebag. A couple of commenters here already have given personal examples of how much more accommodating than their own kind their ‘ other ‘ spouses turned out.
some pughsters drink just like some pughsters shave.
@Kishore
Oh my God! People like to associate with people with whom they share common interests and tastes!? STOP THE PRESSES! The whole world must hear this insight!
Maybe some people don’t regard love as a consumable quantity? If its parochial to think that treating human beings like they are part of some sampler platter of exotic flavors is distasteful? Well, color me parochial.
Yoga Fire,
Your interpretation of my comment is ludicrously facile. Read the whole thing again.
This is a joke, right?
Cindy @ 63 – that’s very heartfelt, as someone who was very shy when she was younger, it was tough managing expectations. I wanted to be ‘left alone’ and all around me were people that had expectations, wheterhy they be my Indian parents or American friends. Hang in there, you’re more of a catch than you realize, I bet. I know it’s annoying to have someone older say that, but it’s true. Just focus on one thing at a time, and don’t worry so much about the future. Seriously, worrying too much is only going to make things worse. Can you make a deal with your parents that you will focus on your studies for the near future, but that you would be willing to meet one or two people for a low key lunch in the next year? Is that a reasonable solution, and will they accept that? Lunch is no biggie if no one is forcing anything one you. It could be awful, it could be fun, it could be nothing. I dunno. Anyway, I hear you.
Here is what I took out of it. You disdain Desis who participate in Desi cultural or social activities and you think people having expectations for what they want their mates to be is a bad thing.
I really don’t see how this attitude is any better than the aforementioned judgmental aunties and uncles.
Oops, that was @ 61 Cindy.
Wooing and courting someone from your own stock is the easy way out. To do otherwise requires shedding parochialism the same way as you do when you try a foreign food. Some give excuses that well they did try it outside but it didn’t work. It didn’t work not because of a clash of cultures but most probably because you were with a douchebag. A couple of commenters here already have given personal examples of how much more accommodating than their own kind their ‘ other ‘ spouses turned out.
Is there a requirement for it to be tough? I mean, sticking with your food analogy, I eat all kinds of food, but am i wrong to like simple rice and dal. Of course most times i want rice and dal i end up eating a cheeseburger (luv u cheeseburger!) but I dunno man, some cheeseburgers are pretty shitty. Rice and dal is a lot harder to fuck up. Foreign food in general I think is awesome if you get it right, but you know, if you can’t use choptsticks, you ain’t never gonna be comfortable in a chinese restaurant. I had a point here, but i forget what it was.
mmm food
“I can’t help but disdain Desi people in a diverse country like America who deliberately restrict their courtship to their own kind.”
does that disdain extend to all americans in diverse america who deliberately restrict their courtship to their own kind or are you just describing only the south asians you know? and isn’t it possible for a person to be well-integrated and non-parochial and want to marry someone from their own background?
“It didn’t work not because of a clash of cultures but most probably because you were with a douchebag. A couple of commenters here already have given personal examples of how much more accommodating than their own kind their ‘ other ‘ spouses turned out.”
and maybe there are actually “their own kind” of spouses/boyfriends who are also more accommodating than those not their own kind? so surely there are more nuanced reasons for some people restricting their courtship than “they are parochial? (other than the people you actually know)
“The chances are that if you are reading this then you conform to the type or you know someone close who does.”
that’s a rather big assumption.
63 脗路 Kishore Kumar said
I can’t help but disdain judgmental, pompous ass*****. Did it ever occur to you that we’re all attracted to different things? Or are you so mechanical and perfunctory that you flip some switch within and decide to date outside your community, so that you can smugly look down on those who make different choices than you do? How lucky your non-Desi partners must be, to be so used.
Some of us are attracted to a certain look. We don’t care whom you date, stop worrying about and criticizing us.
Yes. You would be wrong. Just like you’re wrong to assume the Indian-American experience is something which can occur in India. Why do you give a shit what other people eat? Indian food is grub. Even your superior non-Desi friends might agree.
Says you. I found it much easier to be the exotic Indian girl to some white or black guy, then to make a relationship with another Desi work.
How much more accommodating than what? For whom? Everyone has different needs. Those people found a partner who was right for them, that doesn’t make them an expert on what others should do. By the way, they didn’t choose a trophy to prove how liberated or not parochial they are. And equating dating someone who is of a different culture to trying a “foreign food” shows exactly what kind of shallow mentality you have.
reposting because your website hates love.
Is there a requirement for it to be tough? I mean, sticking with your food analogy, I eat all kinds of food, but am i wrong to like simple rice and dal. Of course most times i want rice and dal i end up eating a cheeseburger (luv u cheeseburger!) but I dunno man, some cheeseburgers are pretty shitty. Rice and dal is a lot harder to fuck up. Foreign food in general I think is awesome if you get it right, but you know, if you can’t use choptsticks, you ain’t never gonna be comfortable in a chinese restaurant. I had a point here, but i forget what it was.
mmm food
this is the third or fourth time that i have seen “blonde” used for men. Is it “blond”? – or did the language change ?
Actually Kishore I read your whole comment, refrained from responding with a kneejerk reaction and waited for others to take the bait. You minimize people by ridiculing what they choose to define themselves by. You lost me right about where you told people to “go back to India”! You entire post reeked of intolerance towards people whose choices don’t align with yours. And somehow you seem to think you are better off than those that choose to celebrate their roots and embrace them rather than reject them. What baffles me is that you’d throw ‘trying new foods’ and ‘marrying someone from outside your culture’ into the same sentence and try to justify it by painting it with the word parochialism. Is life really that simple and black and white for anyone?
74 脗路 AV said
Fixed.
I don’t have a problem with people hanging out mainly with desis as long as they don’t look down on me for not being particularly desi-ish with my personal relationships.
*If I grew up in NJ or something, I bet a big majority of my friends would be desi because maybe my parents would socialize with other desis (although, they were never desi majority socializers), but I grew up in flyover so I had moslty amreekan friends.
I do know people who refused to let their kids play with amreekans though. that stuff is nuts. The good thing about being old like me, is that I don’t care about the identity stuff anymore and neither do my parents. Is this a young person in the US phenom? When you are older and settled, no one cares unless they are trying to pass things on to the kids?
I can’t help but disdain Desi people in a diverse country like America who deliberately restrict their courtship to their own kind.
There is a difference between cultural openness and marital choice. If I take my religion – or whatever – seriously enough then I may very well want to choose a partner who has the same background. That does not preclude cultural openness. On the other hand, think of someone who chooses a partner from a different background because of some weird “fetish.” Does this constitute cultural openness? Summary: You are mixing two very separate issues here.
I dont understand it either – I don’t understand how two people can magically have more in common just because they are more brown, and yet a brown and a white person (for example) can never match even though they have other things in common besides ancestry.
I love being around other cultures and I find them fascinating. I wouldn’t object to dating men from different cultures, within reasonable limits of course. Say, me + a person from Africa or South America who grew up there – not going to work. But someone who grew up in the West but has ancestry not of my own? Sure.
I don’t see this typical ‘Indian parents’ or ‘Indian culture’ everybody keeps harping on about. All families are different. I’ve never personally heard an Indian say that they prefer fair skin or boys. My family members are also really not bothered whether I date brown or not. They are practical and realistic. Growing up I was around people from many different cultures constantly, owing to my parents. There were South American, German, Dutch, French, Eastern European, South Africans…Growing up in artist circles I’ve met many many people from non-Indian backgrounds who took a deep and real interest in classical Indian culture. Some of the Indians I’ve known who were most vociferous about their Indian identity, did not know a whit about Indian culture beyond popular Hindi songs and Bollywood. It just goes to show that ancestry does not mean much.
Personally, I don’t even know what this common factor of Indianness is. I’m not religious and I have no interest in pujas and such. I don’t go to classical dance or music performances unless I’m dragged there, because I have an inability to appreciate Indian classical music or dance, above a detached level (it doesn’t move me). I don’t seek out anything particularly because it’s Indian – I look for it because I like it. Yet for all these things I still consider myself an authentic Indian – because I am Indian, India’s where my parents are from, it’s where I was born.
Aveek said:
I absolutely agree…. this article does make it seem like marrying someone outside of the desi community is a step down of some kind, which I think is a pretty awful thing to think. And I think that if this article were written by an orthodox Hindu who would only consider someone for marriage who was in their same caste and sub-caste, would that not be considered racist? The point is that in my opinion, if a person disregards another person for dating based upon their differences in race, then that person is a racist. There are plenty of non-Desi people out there who would share your opinions and viewpoints if you gave them a chance. Plus consider the fact that most of what an American-born desi thinks of as “their” culture really is an amalgamation of two cultures. So if you want a person to fit your “culture”, what you are really saying is that you want them to fit you. And a person fitting “you” should not be based upon race. I mean, just because you get jilted by some non-desi guy doesn’t mean all non-desi guys are assholes, and conversely, just because you got jilted by some desi guy doesn’t mean all desi guys are assholes. You should judge a person based on who they are, not what they look like.
The crowd on SM is like a Lost Tribe at various levels of reconciliation. Maybe because they grew up in the nook and crannies of America, or when India was only the land of poverty and disassociation with her was essential for being accepted with the local population. Those who reconciled early are enjoying the burbs, sending their kids to pingry and are the darling of both sets of parents. Some reconciled later, live in nice apts and got a later start, but still on their way. And there are others sharing an apartment on the UWS, hoping to meet the elusive partner. I hope you find what you are looking for.
Anna, appreciate your honesty, the current generation does not have it as hard as prior generation.
Btw, reconciliation does not mean marrying brown, means being comfortable with yourself.
That is kind of insightful, and also funny–well done!!
Pingry?! Old egg, we aim for Choate, at a minimum. . . . 馃槈
I feel like in America Im not prepared to have a family. My whole life has been spent for the single purpose of work. Everyday of my life is about preparing for work as is the case for most American’s and I think this makes it harder for us to find a mate and maintain that family. The US does have the highest divorce rate.
And on top of that I have to make this family thing work out with not just anybody, but the perfect brown girl for me. I find the task soul crushing at times. The shit we have to go through is incredible compared to other Americans. Indians put their profiles on the internet and pray to god that they find a match that lives within 2000 miles of them. Does anyone else do this?
81 脗路 Duniya Dur Darshan said
Where does it make it seem like that? This article is about one woman’s description of HER own experiences, and how whom she dated changed over time–just as SHE changed over time. Neither she nor I condemn or look down on anyone who dates someone outside of the Desi community and we BOTH state as much, in writing. If you needed really blunt clarification, there it is.
Once more, for the cheap seats in the back: neither Raakhee nor I are suggesting that marrying a non-Desi is a step down.
The point of this is that you should do what works for you, whatever that may be. To each their own. Find love wherever you do, with the person who is right for you, regardless of whether they are brown, white or blue.
Indians put their profiles on the internet and pray to god that they find a match that lives within 2000 miles of them. Does anyone else do this?
You mean Craigslist?
statistics here. the combinations are:
born abroad X born abroad born/or raised here X born abroad born/or raised here X born/or raised here
“I am suggesting that marrying white hints at least at some component of self-hatred”
Is this a joke? I mean, it’s not like two people could just, you know, fall in love? Sheesh.
Yes, well, for men too. A lot less of this would happen if only we were “grounded” at an earlier age. 馃槈
88 脗路 someGuy said
Okay, I’ve edited my comment to make things clearer. 馃檪
Its so very Indian to play that usual stereotypical judgmental person. We are always so pre-occupied secretly in finding fault in our lifestyle and the whole family thing that every other culture becomes bad and only us as Indians we seem to be the only ones who value everything around us, I feel so bad for those Indians who are tied down by these so called value and have to do everything to see that all values are 100% intact but in our heart of hearts we don芒鈧劉t like to do it. Family values don芒鈧劉t necessarily have to be living with your parents or choosing an Indian spouse. We Indians look at westerners as something so easy to get and so easy to use and we know for sure that if we use them and dump them we are not going to face any problems of them landing up at the front door with Mummyji or Daddyji to ask why. But for Indian couples they live in this fear that this would happen if they ended up dumping each other.
As for people bring their old parents to the US to live with them is not cause of family values it芒鈧劉s just for free labor and free baby sitters. Do you know how many old Indian people in London have been found like this? The so called SON or Daughter of these poor people bring them to London or here for that matter saying that oh!! We miss you and all that mumbo jumbo about you took care of us when we were small now its our turn to do the same, end up making them work at home cleaning baby sit cook etc. or in their business. I have seen so many old Indian men as old as my father working in convenient store lifting boxes when their so called caring son with all the so called family values tell him that he is putting 12 pks of beer in the wrong place wow!!!! Values. Or making them fold laundry in a motel or clean rooms wow values again.
As long as whoever is happy to live with the whole jing bang go ahead and knock yourself out but don芒鈧劉t really forget the true meaning of family values. Sharing the same roof or the same meal don芒鈧劉t mean that one has better or the best family values compared to any other caste creed or religion.
And as for the ones who think that we Indians are the best well excuse me, if we were then we would have been in INDIA and India would have been a Strong country ages ago.
P.S. please don芒鈧劉t believe all that you see in the saas bahu soap operas where every day芒鈧劉s a festival and everyone lives like one big giant family in one house.
95 脗路 someGuy said
PADDY. PADDY. PADDY. You’re the third person I’ve had to correct these past three days. Is it coincidence because of St. PADDY’s Day, or is it something else?
Anna said:
“To each their own” may sound like something noble to aspire to, but to me it sounds like defending racism. When a person defines their “own” as dating someone who is the same skin color as them, and will not consider anyone who is a different color, then that to me is racist. I am saying that there are people out there who think that the only person who is right for them CANNOT be brown, white or blue… they have to be red, they have to be one specific color. And if someone wants to be racist in their dating decisions, then that certainly is their right as an American, but I don’t have to like it.
A marriage can be called successful only when the husband and wife hold their first grandchild together.
M. Nam
when i first presented manish & vinod with the statistics from the census early in the 2000s they were shocked. manish’s argument, with i find plausible, is that as the sample space of indian americans born here increases marriage outside of the community will decrease. another issue is that i think brownz who live in metro-urban areas have a very different experience and sense from those who live outside of major metro-urban areas.
i think how individuals view these calculations vary from person to person. i don’t have a very strong attachment to any distinctive south asian identity. therefore even though i’m from a muslim background i have no strong objection if a hindu wants to label me a hindu because of my ethnicity and ‘carvaka’ outlook. even though i am from a bangladeshi background i don’t really mind too much if people get confused and refer to me as indian as i don’t think there’s that big of a difference. i have no particular interest in any of my potential children or grandchildren being inculcated with a sense of bengaliness (though they’ll obviously know their ethnic background). many of you have a much stronger tie to your ethnic identity. OTOH, it seems to me that those with a very strong and distinctive self-identity, i.e., kashmiri brahmin or something like that, would go beyond the point where being south asian would be enough. and as someone from a muslim background i’m already implicitly coded as being further from the archetypical south asian (i look like the typical brown person, but subtle changes in manner are obvious when i meet many brown people in public places when they hear my name), so it isn’t like everyone has the exact same opportunity within the pool of potential co-ethnics (as a pragmatic matter i do think that a hindu-sikh identity is more brown, so i’m not complaining at being relatively marginal, it’s just an empirical fact).
The stats are a bit outdated, but these don’t include dating.
they’re from the 2006 update of the ACS.
101 脗路 MoorNam said
b.s. children don’t define the success of a marriage, and grandchildren don’t either.
although I think its a prime example of an indian female entering into a relationship with a white male.
why exactly are you pointing to this combination? (this always comes up in these debates, though i haven’t seen any evidence for sex imbalances)
someGuy, I hope this doesn’t kill you. http://www.okmagazine.com/pixandvids/gallery/11505/6
107 脗路 razib said
Because that’s what HMF does.