Well, here we go again. Mass protests have erupted in Pakistan, as Nawaz Sharif and others have embarked on a “long march” to protest a recent judicial decision barring the Sharif brothers from holding office. Among other things, the protesters are demanding the reinstatement of Supreme Court Justice Iftikar Choudhry. But one gets the feeling that what is really at stake here is Zardari’s grip on power.
[Update: According to Reuters, Zardari has agreed to reinstate Choudhry, which should defuse the crisis somewhat, and perhaps stabilize his own grip on power. Also see SAJA, and #longmarch at Twitter, for the Tweets of the Twitterers]
First, let me just point readers to a blog from the newspaper, Dawn, with updates on the “Long March” protests. If the stuff hits the fan on Monday in the next few weeks, when the protesters go to Islamabad, this might be a good place to get the latest information.
Second, weren’t we just doing this in Pakistan last year? In a recent post on Michael Dorf’s blog, Anil Kalhan argues that the parallels are too strong to ignore. I’m not entirely sure I agree, since Musharraf was a much stronger leader before his power started to erode. That said, Zardari’s over-zealous response to threats to his authority has had a lot in common with Musharraf’s own response.
There is also a very detailed account of the back-story behind the current protests by Beena Sarwar here. Among other things, Sarwar notes that the coalition supporting the current protests, which includes the Jamaat-e-Islami, might cause progressives abroad to pause before we raise our fists in pro-democracy solidarity:
In this situation, political instability is distracting at best and dangerous at worst. The ‘long march’ demanding the reinstatement of chief justice Iftikhar Mohammed Choudhry, spearheaded by the legal fraternity and sections of civil society, has ready allies among the right-wing political opposition.
This includes Sharif’s PML-N and the Jamaat-e-Islami, a mainstream religious party sympathetic to militant Islam, as well as others sympathetic to the Taliban, like ex-chief Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and anti-India hawk Gen. (retd.) Hamid Gul, retired bureaucrat Roedad Khan who brutally quashed political opposition during the Zia years, and cricket hero-turned politician Imran Khan, chief of the Tehrik-e-Insaaf (Movement for Justice).
All these forces boycotted the 2008 polls, except Sharif who rescinded his boycott decision after Bhutto convinced him that elections were the only way forward.
Long-festering tensions between the PPP and PML-N came to a head with a Supreme Court ruling of Feb 25 barring Sharif and his brother Shahbaz Sharif from holding elected office. Bhutto’s widower, President Asif Ali Zardari is widely believed to be behind this controversial ruling. (link)
Finally, the reliable and independent-minded journalist Pervez Hoodbhoy has a detailed analysis in the latest issue of Frontline, on what he sees as Pakistan’s precipitous slide towards theocracy. His perspective on what is happening in Pakistan is quite alarming to me. Among other things, Hoodbhoy’s article makes me think that it almost doesn’t matter who is running the show in Islamabad; in terms of curriculum in the schools and the cultural mindset of ordinary Pakistanis, the Islamization Zia initiated nearly thirty years ago has steadily continued to progress even under subsequent leaders. (At least, that is what Hoodbhoy seems to be arguing. Any comments from Pakistani readers on this argument?)
I like how “new-age” is a belief system you feel the world should convert to. The more things change eh?
36 · Nilufar said
That’s kind of hard to tell, if you’re one to go by.
37 · Brown said
Not only is this offensive, but you’re also a dumbass. Yoga Fire is not advocating dropping bombs; he is relativizing the moral wrongness of one act of violence over another. Acknowledging differences between war and terrorism is not equivalent to advocating dropping bombs (as opposed to blowing yourself up), and just because someone disagrees with you gives you no right to mock what you perceive their religion to be. Asshole.
Talking about Vir Sanghvi and his so called piece is demeaning to the spirit of this blog. He sounded like scores of fundamenalist Indians on this blog who try to convince us that Indians are different than Pakistanis. Please under stand we are all the same, we are all South Asians. Sometimes we just love to kill each other, but thats a very small difference compare to the color of our skin.
Seriously, you don’t think Pakistanis try to convince themselves they’re different from Indians? Some Pakistanis I know would be offended by this statement. They pride themselves on being of a different racial/ethnic stock, lighter-skinned, taller, stronger, etc. And honestly, ‘We are all South Asian’ is a meaningless statement on the subcontinent itself (i.e. it’s only meaningful in the diaspora, and probably mostly in the U.S. at that).
I know, and I hate that. That’s why I get such a perverse thrill out of allying myself with, e.g., the Flemish right.
He sounded like scores of fundamentalist Indians on this blog
Except that he is part of the liberal brigade, and hates the Hindu radicals.
Pakistan has walked so far down the Wahabbi road that even the liberals have given up on them.
I’m glad you like it. However, there’s nothing to convert to. And there’s no “belief system”. Just an attitude.
A chilled out, laid back attitude of love, baby.
Wow. PMS much? Where in the world did you get “mocking” someone’s “perceived religion” from?
And I totally don’t get how the concept of love bombing is “offensive”.
Take a chill pill, sweetheart.
You are absolutely correct about these fundamentalist Indians propogating this absurd two nation theory.
Assuming you are not a troll: I do not share your religion, cusine, culture, language, script, film or music, let alone your country. Your country has a terrible reputation in the country I live in. Deservedly, by many accounts. Please do not insult me by boxing me with you.
Wow, preach on brother!! You are harsh, and I, as a pro-India AB(c)D, am lovin’ it!!
60 · ibleed4pakists said
Are you Norwegian ?
We are all one race – human race!
People, grow up.
Religion, cuisine, culture, language, script, film, music and geographical borders are all external to the SELF.
We are all human and we all bleed red. We all breath air, crave love, and get hunger pains.
I can’t believe this has to be spelled out to ADULTS! Well, I guess I’m not surprised. Children seem to get these basic facts of life better than jaded, bitter grown ups.
looking at some of the comments above i would suggest the discussion board on rediff.com as a good source of talking points for future comments
45 · The Schwartz said
Ending a war quickly can never justify the unmitigated evil of murdering babies, children, pregnant women, old folks and other innocent civilians. That you and your ilk can make such demonic rationalizations shows how morally bankrupt you really are. Shame on you!
What makes the nuclear holocausts infilicted by America so contemptible is that they were ordered by the american president himself and were part of the overall anglo-american strategy of targeting civilians in cities with the openly declared intention of terrorizing the enemy population.
We are not talking of tens of people or weeks here. We are talking of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians incinerated in seconds. Something that was unprecedented in human history and that has never been repeated. And it was not some renegade general that ordered the bombings it was ordered by the american president himself and was the culmination of a criminal strategy of terrorism. Yet you have the nerve to claim the moral high ground!
The japanese did not kill indiscriminately as the americans did in their fire-bombings and nukings of enemy cities not just in WWII but also in Korea and Vietnam. Besides, how does that justify America committing atrocities on japanese civilians?
Right, b/c the concerns and aspirations of ordinary Indians should be mocked and subordinated to the whims of Romila Thapar, the Gandhi family, and whichever washed-up Russian leftist has rolled into town most recently.
So do vampire bats, tapirs, chimpanzee and most other mammals.That is not the issue.
Yes, as Dilbert says, we are termites chewing on the same log.
. I assume that your point here is that when one realises the true nature of the SELF, all external divisions melt away, and the SELF is seen as an indistinguishable part of the absolute. One with the universal consciousness. This discovery brings much peace and happiness. Now try explaining the above to Mullah Fazlullah.
Nuclear proliferation also sucks because it makes it easier for nukes to get into the hands of utterly amoral organizations like Al Qaeda. The more unstable regimes that get their hands on nuclear toys, the more likely we are to see a nuke set off in the middle of a major city by some d-bag doing it in the name of some “cause.”
nuclear weapons aren’t toys. and only states probably have the capital wherewithal to deploy them.
Well, so far, yes–good point, Razib, but–why should we expect this to continue into the future? I know it’s expensive, but. . . .
Amardeep, I’ve been meaning to say this for a long time. Thanks very much for the well-researched, timely, and balanced posts in the last 5-6 months.
why should we expect this to continue into the future?
in the future we’re all dead. aliens could invade. children with down syndrome could be gene therapied so that they could win spelling bees. but i’m sure such vague comments as “in the future” will be eminently plausible to data-ignorant morons; i.e., most humans.
Razib, with all due respect, you need a better argument for nukes staying out of the hands of non-state actors than “it hasn’t been done in the past”–the point is, it could happen under not-implausible scenarios in the next decade.
according to me pakistaan is in big trouble , i think so all united country should help to survive pakistaani people and also not to pakistaani govt.
WTF!?
“Take Ansar Ullah, a Bengali leftist from the old school. Like many secularists of his generation, his life has been dominated by the struggle against Jamaat-e-Islami…The allegation that Jamaat would want to exterminate liberals was hardly far-fetched. Maulana Mawdudi, its founder, has as a great a claim as Sayyid Qutb of the Muslim Brotherhood, to be the first to argue for a totalitarian Islamic empire. “The establishment of an ideological Islamic state requires the Earth,” he said. “Not just a portion, but the entire planet.”…When I asked Shiraz Maher, the co-author of the Policy Exchange report, why he had not offered his work to the leftish Fabians or Institute for Public Policy Research, he guffawed. They would never print what he wrote. For this Muslin liberal, the left was no longer a home but an obstacle. Ed Husain did not laugh but exploded with anger. “Where is the centre-left movement combating extremism?” he thundered. “Who on the left stands on the side of Muslims who want to support secularism and pluralism? Do they think that fascists only have white skins?”” http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/15/islam-britain-jamaat-labour-extremists
(FYI – I am not the Sameer of post #64)
73 · mayur said
Did you mean to say that we must unite and help each other so that we may survive the actions of the pakistani people and their govt? :-).
9 · Amitabh said
Wow, “being repeatedly told” means it must be fact.
Just to shift the direction of this conversation sideways… does anyone predict another coup?
66 · rob said
excellent rediff comment.
56 · rob said
agreed, mr. rediff commenter. the jews in europe were obnoxious, so i got a perverse thrill out of… japanese-americans during ww 2 ate sushi, so i got a perverse thrill out of…
Pretty amazing. I’ll just quoate Chapati here:
Since 2006, the ordinary people of Pakistan have repeatedly mobilized, peacefully and forcefully, in the streets to 1. kick a military dictator out of both army and civilian power 2. get an election done despite the assassination of a popular leader and 3. keep the matter of justice and the judiciary alive and come out against the civilian regime of zardari after it broke its campaign promises.
Wow.
More on civil disobedience in pakistan (from NYTimes)
“The officers had been asking us to defend, but when we saw the mob was so powerful we retreated and the officers told us to retreat,†said Constable Mohammed Imtiaz. He supported the call for the restoration of the judiciary, he said. “We need the rule of law.â€
One of the senior officials in the Lahore government, the chief magistrate, Sajjad Bhutta, said he had resigned and refused to carry out what he called the illegal acts of the police crackdown. He appeared among the crowds on the Mall, surrounded by cheers and waving flags.
Tough to say how it will all turn out, but a popular uprising motivated by a desire for the Rule of Law — that’s great.
This is good for India too. In two different ways. One, while dealing with a democratic government can be very messy, it is, in my opinion, preferable to dealing with a military junta. Second, many (elite) Indians pride themselves on their country being a “democracy” in contrast to Pakistan. The imperfections of our democracy (illiteracy, malnutrition, caste inequality, gender inequality, communal violence,…) are often forgotten or glossed over – presumably, the fact that we are a “democracy” covers all ills.
Now that Pakistan is also a democracy (imperfect, yes, like ours), one of the ways in which we elite Indians can feel “superior” is gone. Perhaps we can now get down to the hard business of correcting our own imperfections. It is worth noting that on many human development indicators, Bangladesh has outdone India over the last 20 years or so. (It’s an underreported story.)
In the meantime, well done and all the best to Pakistanis.
Note to the SM interns/bloggers: If you will cover Pakistan or Bangladesh, please try to do so without making us out to be a bunch of Islamofascists, whose moves (protests, etc.) are determined only by our savage understanding of the Ko-rayn. Most of us actually have critical and intellectual faculties fully working–even if you don’t believe that to be possible.
I dont speak for SM bloggers but I have to say that this is not the fault of SM Bloggers. They do a very good job of monitoring these pages but they cannot control the content of the commenters. This thread is actually not that bad. A lot of SM commenters are not much different from rediff or LGF commenters. Thats the market place speaking at some level. There is nothing anyone can do about that.
In the meantime, a hugely successful terrorist strike on Mumbai, was planned and executed, the SWAT valley was handed over to the Taliban. And there were no protests. Kinda shows where the heart is.
India should not be celebrating the new found people power of Pakistan. It is the time for India to speak softly (while it reaches for..)
DizzyDesi, please stick to one handle per thread — preferably just one handle, period.
Nilufar in # 4 – “The reality is that young Pakistanis volunteering to fight with their brothers in Afghanistan or Kashmir is no different than young American men and women volunteering to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan. One is considered patriotic and the other “militant Jehad.””
One difference is that, these young Pakistanis, who crossed into Kashmir to help their [Muslim] brethren get rid of India, were responsible for the ethnic cleansing of Kashmir’s [minority] Hindu population. Just a few months after the first group of Pakistani volunteers, you so kindly sent, arrived in our valley in 1989, the Kashmiri Hindus [aka Kashmiri Pandits], who had lived peacefully with their Muslim neighbors since Islam came to our valley nearly seven hundred years ago, were targeted for assassinations, rape, terror and finally, expulsion.
And, thanks to your “volunteers” , we will forever have to live with the guilt of remaining silent when these monsters were trampling Kashmir’s pluralism under their Wahhabi Jack Boots, so that they could herald the Nizam-e-Mustafa. And before you or any one else responds with, so what, the Indian Army is killing Kashmiri Muslims, please tell me, do you advocate the killing of American citizens because the American Army is in Iraq and Afghanistan?
And the other major difference is that, the American Army is not running rampant in American cities, blowing up compatriots to smithereens by the thousands, controlling an American state [like Swat], burning down girls’ schools, decapitating American leaders and hanging their dead bodies in the town square; and neither is the U.S. Army demanding that women, like you and me, live our lives according to the bible.
Paagal wrote: Thats the market place speaking at some level. There is nothing anyone can do about that.
No. Bloggers have a great deal of influence over the tone of their comments, from the type of posts they write, the moral suasion they exercise in the comments, and the kinds of commentors they ban. Bloggers are not responsible, but they are accountable, for their comments.
Dizzy wrote: India should not be celebrating the new found people power of Pakistan. It is the time for India to speak softly (while it reaches for..)
Sure. The desire for Rule of Law in Pakistan may not be consistent with the interests of the government of India. But why should we westerners, who happen to be South-Asian (North) Americans, care about the interests of the Government of India?
I do agree with the suggestion to speak softly, tough, and I look forward to you implementing that recommendation immediately.
Well, why should anyone care for what is happening in Pakistan at all for that matter? It’s part of the discussion.
I hate to say it, but I can’t help feeling that very very dark days are ahead for Pakistan, and because of that, for India, too, and there will be dark echoes for the Pakistani diaspora too, and in as much as British boys of Pakistani origin blowing themselves up and murdering innocent people in the name of the ‘ummah’ affects any of us with brown skin, it will affect the Indian diaspora too.
Reading that essay by Pervez Hoodhboy was spinechilling, and very, very truthful.
Actually, if you read Pervez Hoodhboy’s article, and scroll down, you’ll see an extract from the Pakistani school Social Studies curriculum. It makes for very grim reading indeed.
One of the key factors for the recurring and ongoing instability in Pakistan is the lack of strong institutions. Because of the Army rule, these never got an opportunity to get off the ground and gain strength. Institutions are what is required to ensure that vagaries of individuals does not lead a nation astray.
88 · Ikram said
Zing!
46 · dipanjan said
Dipanjan, thank you so much for the film (It has been emotionally draining, but it is certainly worth seeing). I hope that this talented 11-year old and her brave family remain safe.
“Note to the SM interns/bloggers: If you will cover Pakistan or Bangladesh, please try to do so without making us out to be a bunch of Islamofascists, whose moves (protests, etc.) are determined only by our savage understanding of the Ko-rayn. Most of us actually have critical and intellectual faculties fully working–even if you don’t believe that to be possible. “
If you have such critical faculties, I dont see how you can get so worked up over the actions of the Israeli, Indian or American states without applying the same logic to the Pakistani state. Do you forget, 1971? The coldblooded massacre of central asians in afghanistan in the 1990s? That blood is on the hands of the pakistani civil-military establishment.
Where is the muslim outrage over the massacre of kurds, armenians, and most recently, the sudanese?
More on pakistani textbooks – in distinct contrast to the views of troll Nilufar – here is a study by pakistani academic Tariq Rahman.
http://www.tariqrahman.net/language/Images%20of%20the%20'Other‘.htm
Conclusions – The images of the “Other” in pakistani textbooks potray hindus, christians and western people in negative terms. The state controlled textbook Boards focus on creating nationalistic opinion againts India so as to create a garrision state mentality among the citizens.
Yes, I remember Mrs. Hobbes complained about that all the time.
66 · rob said
So your affection for right-wing extremism arose from a desire to assuage your own insecurities or a concern for the aspirations of ordinary Indians? Both?
86 · SM Intern said
Sry… Autofill in this PC. I’m using the the Ibleed4paskists handle in this thread. Could you change #85
As a concerned South Asian-American of Pakistani origin, I’m actually really disappointed by the turn this thread has taken. Most of the comments are not even on topic, having more to do with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the ills of Muslims everywhere rather than with the protests in Pakistan which are ostensibly the topic of the post. I made a comment (number 5) which I felt actually carried the discussion forward along the lines that Amardeep had set out, but no one bothered to respond to it. I like Sepia Mutiny and I appreciate the hard work the bloggers put into it (knowing that they all have day jobs), but I’m inclined to agree that if they decide to discuss Pakistan than they have a responsiblity to make sure that the discussion unfolds in a civil manner. I have no problem with legitimate criticism of the Pakistani government (I have my own share of criticism), but too often posts about Pakistan become a place for commenters (largly Indian and non-Muslim) to spew all sorts of vitriol against Pakistanis and Muslims in general, which doesn’t exactly further an academic or intellectual discussion. I’ve read comments on threads where people literally come out and say “Wouldn’t it be great for India if Pakistan totally breaks up?” As a Pakistani, I am offended by this type of rhetoric. When we all fault Ahmedinjad for wishing for the destruction of Isreael, what gives us the right to wish for the breakup of any other country that we just happen to not like for some reason?
Sound familiar? While some Indians can pat admirable Hoodbhoy in pointing to Pakistani Social Science textbooks, let’s hope that smugness does not blind us to the skeletons which lurk in our closet too:
[link]
[link]
and finally, agem, from Bal Thackeray: “If they (Hindu terrorists) are (behind the September 29 Malegaon blast), I would be glad. Terrorists should be born among Hindus, I have begun to feel,” he said in an interview given to his party’s mouthpiece ‘Samaana’.