I was hesitant when I heard 60 Minutes was doing an interview with Governor Bobby Jindal because frankly, I didn’t think I could take sixty minutes of the sing-songy voice we heard on Tuesday night. But Jindal’s segment is only 12 minutes long. So I watched. And was a little bit impressed. Don’t believe me? Here, watch for yourself.
Watch CBS Videos Online
I’m not sure if it’s because I’m juxtaposing this clip with his speech earlier this week, but I actually kind of liked watching it. The segment shows him as an ethical, straight-edge, god-fearing, son-of-immigrants, birthed-his-third-child-himself family man. I think it was smart of him to do this interview so soon after the disastrous performance earlier this week, but I’m just not sure enough people watched it to nullify the effect.
It was interesting how Jindal and his wife tried to downplay the Indian factor when approached with questions of race. When asked if he felt any racial tension while being raised in Baton Rouge, he said he didn’t feel any and “they accept you based on who you are.” When asked about if his family maintained any Indian traditions, the couple responded, “Not too many. We’ve been here for so many years. We were raised as Americans.”
Personally, I think that maintaining Indian traditions is completely American and you should not have to marginalize one for the other. We are all Americans with a hyphenated back story. But I also think the question was poorly asked and I wonder if the couple would have responded differently if it was a Desi reporter asking the question with more nuance. I also wonder how much of what they say to media is political posturing verses what they feel about identity behind closed doors.
Overall, I think it was a decent bio-fluff interview with no real hard hitting questions from 60 Minutes. We didn’t learn too many new Jindal facts, though Manish listed some here. But I think what this interview did for me was remind me that there’s a brown* guy in politics gunning for Obama’s seat in seven years. But from the other side. And my kind of brown*. And that is kind of… remarkable.
*I say brown. Republicans say beige. Can someone explain to me why he’s the “beige hope”, not “brown hope”?
right. it may be that the nicene creed is correct, that salvation goes only through the church of st. peter, and bobby jindal is privy to a personal revelation which we are not. those of you accept the reality of supernatural entities presumably can entertain this possibility.
no, it means that Jindal might believe in the above, which has nothing to do with the veracity of the above claims.
If Bobby and his wife don’t identify too strongly with being Indian; why did they each marry 2nd gen Indians?
no, razib, you missed my point again, i think, or i’m missing yours. maybe aethiests don’t have the brain machinery to experience this religious thing. i’m not saying it’s god, but that there may be an area in the brain that corresponds to religious feeling. so if he has it, and you don’t, he IS experiencing what he believes to be god. get what i’m getting at? there are stroke patients that feel things that are not happening to them, but the sensation is real to them. that’s what i mean.
he converted when he was, like, sixteen. more likely it was a girl he was interested in 🙂
tushar, but indian and indian ideas are concrete things. what are they?
While Jindal’s adoption of “Bobby” and his conversion to Catholicism may have been atleast partially calculated (and a pretty good calculation at that!) it is not at all unreasonable to suppose that he does not (now) see it that way at all. Attitudes (feelings towards X) can lag behavior (conversion to X) and in his case may have taken a few years to catch up and now his memory would be conveniently changed (to fit in with his current attitudes).
203 · onparkstreet said
I highly doubt Jindal’s issue with girls was based on his hindu religion. If he looked like Sanjay Gupta, no girl would care whether he was a hindu, muslim, sikh or whatever.
He must have been taunted in grade school onwards both about his indian heritage and about his “weird” religion. how many white people in LA have heard of Hindu’s? I understand the insecurity at age 16, but by 37, you should have worked that shit out.
tushar, his answer would likely be that he is not indian, but american.
so, you get to define authenticity in a human being? hey, i think i may have met god, aethiests. i’m spelling that wrong, ain’t i?
anyway, i have to quit because i don’t have a dog in this hunt. i’ll vote for whoever i think will do the best job, i don’t care about biographies or whatever.
phenomenological reality
is an oxymoron.
204 · razib said
I’m saying they’re NOT concrete. That’s the beauty of it. The definition of Indian can be anything as far as the person questioned is concerned. And yet, I’m still not sure Jindal would answer Yes.
Indian is both a nationality and an ethnicity. So in that sense I think you made a fallacy of accent. You can be proud of being Indian without giving up being American.
And why would that be bad? As someone who values a pluralistic country where my culture is respected I’d like a politician who plays up his pluralistic credentials vs. one who doesn’t. What you’re basically saying is that people who don’t like Jindal dislike him because he doesn’t share their values about how we should interact in the public sphere (going back to when you said “You like the left and don’t like the righty. It’s nothing to do with assimilation. “) which is kind of “no duh!” That is exactly the point people have been alluding to, but what’s wrong with that?
Attitudes (feelings towards X) can lag behavior (conversion to X) and in his case may have taken a few years to catch up and now his memory would be conveniently changed (to fit in with his current attitudes).
BINGO!!! wish i saw this sort of comment more often. see some of daniel schacter’s memory research and you’ll note how malleable it is, and how sincerely we can rewrite the past and our perceptions and recollections with ease. here’s an example: track a bunch of white people from the late 1960s to the early 1980s in the south. ask them about race relations. here’s an interesting finding: people correctly remember the majority viewpoint about desegregation, but, they always seem to think that their present views were their past views. so a lot of people who were prosegregation in 1968 switched by 1982, and they remember being antisegregation in 1968 while everyone else was pro.
unpacking that is pretty hard though, just easier to say that bobby jindal is a sellout who is ashamed of hinduism blah blah.
uh, nm, what i meant was maybe he thought this girl was cute and started out by humoring her if she was religious and then got interested.
you know, i was never taunted as a kid about being ‘indian’. i had a lot of friends. i was a nerd, but that was different. nerds off all colors are not the most popular bunch in school. was it so bad on the coasts and in big cities? glad i grew up in flyover, it sounds awful for some of you. traumatic. not everyone had that traumatic experience, okay?
182 · DesiInNJ said
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blockquote>181 · Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery said
Since neither of you know, how about we remember exactly that– we don’t know why Jindal did anytihng.
People who are asserting that he did “x” for “y” reason are being presumptuous to the point of obnoxiousness, not to mention shockingly close-minded and judgmental. How the fuck do I know why he converted? I DON’T. THAT’S MY POINT. I DON’T KNOW WHY HE DID ANYTHING. NEITHER DO YOU.
Apparently being aware of this and asserting we keep this fact in mind as we have a discussion is not feasible for some of you, who persist in your misguided belief that you know exactly why another human did whatever he did. I’m not telling any of you to support, accept or love him, I’m telling you to be honest; none of us knows why this man did anything.
Then they would have to come from another planet or be another species. The problem is defining this religious thing that you mention. Many have tried, conceded that religion is hard to define, and nevertheless proceeded to provide their own definition, which of course has not helped in explaining anything.
you know, i was never taunted as a kid about being ‘indian’.
that’s just ‘iowa nice’?
maybe aethiests don’t have the brain machinery to experience this religious thing. i’m not saying it’s god, but that there may be an area in the brain that corresponds to religious feeling. so if he has it, and you don’t, he IS experiencing what he believes to be god. get what i’m getting at? there are stroke patients that feel things that are not happening to them, but the sensation is real to them. that’s what i mean.
yeah, i agree. for the record though i doubt the reason that most theists are theists is as sexy as neurotheology. i just think that the way the typical human mind is wired agency and purpose in the universe seems really plausible in an innate manner. that being said, i don’t think this can explain shifting from hinduism to catholicism, as both religions have explanations for supernaturalistic perceptions. the near-death literature is filled with japanese seeing amida buddha or something, christians meeting christ and jews encountering an angel. in other words, the hardware can run whatever operating system it wants.
more likely it was a girl he was interested in
right. i had several friends convert to mormonism for a girl in high school. i recall one of them “stuck” even after the break up, and eventually married another mormon girl.
uh, no divya, some people are epileptics and some are not, does that mean the epileptic is from a different planet? do you have seizures? or the lesion in the temporal lobe maybe related to seizures? maybe you do, i dunno, if you do, sorry, it’s a tough thing.
yes, religious experience is hard to define. that’s my point. my point being, jindal could genuinely belive in jesus christ, it might not be an act, people. that’s all i’m saying.
ugh, i forgot how you can get sucked in at sm.
For someone who despises desis so much, you spend alot of time hanging around a desi forum. Who cares if you’d pass or fail? You are what you are.
++++++
Anyway, everyone has their own experience of life. If you didn’t suffer racism growing up in predominantly white America, that doesn’t invalidate the person who did experience bigotry, and vice versa. Bobby Jindal is an interesting manifestation of the coming of age of Indo-Americans, and he touches on a lot of issues that people can relate to and discuss. Whether you like him or not, his reaching this level is a landmark for desis in America.
hey, ‘great beige hope jindal’ has like 1/20th of the hits in google for ‘great brown hope jindal,’ fwiw. also, “indo-american” sounds as funny as “afro-american.”
but ANNA, i’m sorry, it’s more nuanced than your point, althought your point is a good one. he has said he is a christian, i am taking him at his word. i don’t see why i shouldn’t.
But you youself said, in a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black:
How on earth do you know that’s why he did it? It could’ve been anything from sheer propinquity to his parent’s insistence. Of course, if really do have that knowledge, I’ll stand corrected.
Why do people with near-death experiences see only their corresponding gods? Why don’t they see a cement banana with a peel made of tiger fur being eaten by King Louie from Jungle Book…or something like that?
(Answer: because it’s all bullshit)
But religion is too big a thing for your example to apply. Okay, so you mean religious experience and not the fact that one simply follows a religion. This can happen to anybody. It happened to me, upon which I upped and lived in an ashram for years and years but it’s funny I never thought I was doing religion, I looked at it as something experimental. If you do mushrooms or LSD you can have the whole gamut of religious experience.
“It was interesting how Jindal and his wife tried to downplay the Indian factor when approached with questions of race”. Thank God, after his disastrous speech, desis are better off if he totally disavows his Indian roots. Bill Maher last Friday was spot on.
211 · razib said
Festinger outlined this phenomenon in his 1957 book on cognitive dissonance which was (and is) hugely influential in social psychology; the idea of the self as a fabricator has been there for a while. Many of us would find our past selves less than wholesome, if we could actually time travel.
Jindal’s parents probably couldnt explicitly convey to him what being a Hindu was.. Its pretty hard as its not really based on canonical texts or history but a set of practices that one gets via osmosis (in fact most Indians did not self identify as Hindu till after the British came along). So its no big surprise that he was confused wrt to his identity as a teen and found solace in catholicism. Considering that he has made it without the benefit of even halfway good looks is testament to his intelligence and focus.
172 · onparkstreet said
authenticity has nothing to do with being Indian or American. it’s got to do with owning who YOU are. I don’t give a crap what people in India or people here in American think I am. I AM AUTHENTIC TO ME.
that was my point.
as long as it is the same denomination – it does not matter. “black” churches are a bit disconcerting – with all that singing and dancing and firebrand preachers
huh, indrani? that was my point, too. I AGREE with you.
Yogi Fire: “On the other side, though, it feels like Hindu openness to other religions is deliberately being used as a trojan horse to convert us rather than as a two-way street in which we can both learn something from each other”.
I actually read an article that Jindal wrote in a Catholic Journal, discussing his conversion. I can’t find the article, and don’t remember it word for word, but what he alluded to was that he found Hinduism to be too ideologically “empty” because of the respect it had for other faiths. Meaning, what he was looking for was a religion that specified one truth, or path, rather than a religion that “validated” many different paths. Also, he did mention that what sparked his conversion was a Southern Baptist friend telling him that he and his parents were going to hell. So I guess some of his journey is partially due to peer pressure.
okay then onpartstreet, we’re cool. by the way, quoting is hell here. ugh.
oh, and, are you from anywhere near THE Park Street? one of my favorite parts of Kolkata 🙂
by the way: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090302/ap_on_re_us/jindal_defending_the_speech
221 · chandru said
Classic case is it? Did you chortle with glee while finding a non-existent example of hypocrisy? Some people are adamant that he changed his name or religion because he is ashamed of who he is. I’m not adamant about anything except how it’s wrong to feel certain we know what others are thinking. I wasn’t trying to do that; all I tried to do was point out something inconsistent, but thanks for editing that quote so that no one sees what I was responding to.
6 · vince said
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blockquote>
Because to Republicans, brown is just a shade away from black…JMHO.
222 · Tushar said
Funniest post today. LOL.
And Sonia Gandhi still managed to win an election by remaining a roman catholic inspite of taunts about her italian heritage and sphagetti English.
Keep it real.
What is the appropriate term for the English spoken as a second language by Indians?
Curry English, Kichdi english, chapati english, kheer english, sambhar english,…
229 · hodarkar said
see this comment
161 · onparkstreet said
Hahaha. Using the word “tamasha” seems so much more appropriate while discussing the “desi-ness” of Jindal, especially if he were included in the conversation. I’m sure that he would understand the word perfectly. Would that make him more “Indian?”
Yeah, I’m curious to know more about his background, and yes, I’m made uncomfortable by the fact that he converted, and yes, I want to know how he views his heritage, and perhaps unfortunately, these facts do affect how I perceive him right now.
I want to know about his background because he and I share the same “Indian-American” title, and if I were to vote for him (ever), I would want to relate to him further. There are many first generation-ers (not just Indian) in this country who could potentially relate to Jindal, if he only gave them a chance.
I want to know about his conversion because in my opinion, changing one’s religion is a re-haul of their entire belief system, which is a big deal to me. If he wants to be taken seriously as the “decider” then all of his decisions, personal and private will (and should?) be under scrutiny. Like I said, to me, conversion is a HUGE decision. If he changed from Christianity to Hindusim, I would be equally curious/concerned.
I want to know about his views on his heritage because it often influences how an individual perceives challenges. Frankly, I think being Indian has nothing to do with Bollywood, classical music, food or even language. To me, Indian traditions boil down to respect for elders, understanding the importance of community, doing your duty (this concept of dharma is not just in hindu communities), and being able to use “tamasha” in a sentence. 😉 In other words, what I see in Jindal is someone who has taken the basic fundamentals of “being Indian” and has run with them, though he may not be able to tell interviewers that because he doesn’t waste as much time thinking as I do.
Right now, the fact that I don’t know and don’t have the means to answer these questions is what worries me the most. I hope he does open up though…maybe my perception of him will be different.
Holy crap! He converted out of Hinduism because it’s not Hindutvaadi enough!
And this is why I dislike Jindal. It’s not that he converted, it’s what he converted into. By that I don’t mean Christianity, I mean that group of people who think morality can be reduced to a checklist, who completely deny the presence of any ethical ambiguity, and who are prideful enough to uncritically assume that their way is the only way. It’s a dangerous line of thinking and provides fertile ground for the kinds of “competitive intolerance” you see between communal and political groups in the subcontinent, the middle east, throughout Africa, and in some of the former Soviet Republics.
213 · A N N A said
While I was taking the time to write my post, it seems the point was already made… I just want to knowwwwwwwwww. 🙁 I hate not knowwwwwwing, and I’m really impatient….. 🙁
From a purely political standpoint, Jindal needs to have a substantial base from which to build a presidential campaign. Obama had the yuppie liberals, and eventually (after Iowa) the african-american community, which are substantially in numbers and financing in the democratic primary process. Jindal has no particular ethnic affiliation within the republican party that would immediately identify with him, as Obama does. But like Obama, I suspect he will try and lock down some influential subset of republican primary voters — from the looks of it, social conservatives, and perhaps some reform-minded policy conservative types (though his speech was a big disappointment to the latter group; a group that’s important in a policy sense but is polity-wise too small a subset to rely on exclusively).
So, whatever Jindal’s own views of his identity and heritage (which I don’t think we can judge as easily as we could with Obama, who published a candid autobiography at a young age about this), it is clear that there is nothing to be gained for him politically by emphasizing his heritage beyond a perfunctory nod. Whereas obama could use his story, at least initially, to meld with the aspirational hopes of your stereotypical educated liberal, Jindal (at first glance) has no similar constituency within the republican party that will find his identity alone compelling. So I would not expect him to dwell on his ethnic heritage, but exploit other aspects of his identity and beliefs to build support within the republican base.
It’s politics people. If he has ambitions he’ll do what he needs to do.
If there is nothing Indian they do, why did they name their kid ‘Shaan’? Is that a common name in Louisiana?
folks, please see this comment
By the way, Americans can be ANYTHING.
I dislike Jindal not because of his religion or race. I dislike him because of his wingnut ideologies and views. This is after all Bobby “Exorcist” Jindal we’re talking about! He’s also somehow managed to convert what was going to be a huge state surplus into what is will become one of the biggest state deficits in the coming years. Reagan was a slimebag with questionable grasp on politics and economics; It certainly seems that Jindal’s attempting to follow in the Gipper’s footsteps.
!warning! Atheist ramblings below:
What does however grind my gears when it comes to Swindle Jindal and his religion flip flopping is that, as a person who rejects the existence of sky fairies, I cannot understand how someone can make the conscious decision to REJECT one set of make believe and then careen over to another. I can fully understand why someone would stop believing, but if you’ve made the decision to fundamentally examine your beliefs then I’m surprised at him not rejecting it all… especially someone who’s obviously as bright as he is. I kinda think he might even be a closet agnostic or something (I’m hoping at least) and that it’s all just a big political ploy!
242 · LeVar said
I was referring to the statements made by the Jindals:
“Not too many. We’ve been here for so many years. We were raised as Americans.â€
I don’t know too many Americans that attend pujas and read vedas.
Thanks LeVar. I know I’ve been through that journey he describes. I definitely didn’t reach the same conclusion, but I get him a little better now.
243 · crimson said
I really hope it is. If he is a bible-thumper (sorry Anna), I DO NOT want him in charge of making any policies that affect me and my family. I hope he is just an opportunist politician that will sway with the wind.
Of course, it’s impossible to be “authentically” Indian and live in the US (I mean, do you know any “authentically Italian” Italian-Americans? I think not. . . ). So, as one or more people pointed out above, all we’re really quibbling over is just how non-authentic is “appropriate.” This strikes me as a fairly un-principled debate, so the onus is really on the Jindal detractors to define and defend some principle of “proper dis-authenticity.”
Although the fate and foibles of us ABD’s provide interesting topics, to be sure, in the big “desi picture” what happens to us isn’t really that important–indeed, for all the discussion of Jindal’s (to me, completely unproblematic) conversion, the real threat to Hinduism lies in India, not abroad. That’s why I don’t feel myself a hypocrite to PayPal some $$ to the VHP after consuming a nice porterhouse “swilled down” with some Malbec. But, I guess that’s unusual. So be it.
Jindal-Petraeus 2012!!
246 · DesiInNJ said
What if the wind blows against you? I’d rather take a principled villain over an opportunistic one. If he’s acting on principle at least I can anticipate what he will do.
But hindus don’t have a belief system. I think it would do many hindus a lot of good if they actually converted to xtianity just as an experiment. All of a sudden they would know what “hinduism” is just by contrast. Secondly, people don’t necessarily convert for beliefs. I have a friend who converted from being protestant to catholic just because she liked the catholic culture better, with its liturgies and pomp and show. Thirdly, if Jindal converted for political reasons, I would give him bonus points and not berate him because he’s doing what it takes. It’s quite another thing that he’s overall unappealing and unlikeable but I think it has more to do with his style than the specific things he’s done.
Remember how the Bush administration launched a really well-intentioned and generally good anti-AIDS initiative in Africa and then allowed it to get hijacked by fundamentalist “abstinence only” missionaries?