I was hesitant when I heard 60 Minutes was doing an interview with Governor Bobby Jindal because frankly, I didn’t think I could take sixty minutes of the sing-songy voice we heard on Tuesday night. But Jindal’s segment is only 12 minutes long. So I watched. And was a little bit impressed. Don’t believe me? Here, watch for yourself.
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I’m not sure if it’s because I’m juxtaposing this clip with his speech earlier this week, but I actually kind of liked watching it. The segment shows him as an ethical, straight-edge, god-fearing, son-of-immigrants, birthed-his-third-child-himself family man. I think it was smart of him to do this interview so soon after the disastrous performance earlier this week, but I’m just not sure enough people watched it to nullify the effect.
It was interesting how Jindal and his wife tried to downplay the Indian factor when approached with questions of race. When asked if he felt any racial tension while being raised in Baton Rouge, he said he didn’t feel any and “they accept you based on who you are.” When asked about if his family maintained any Indian traditions, the couple responded, “Not too many. We’ve been here for so many years. We were raised as Americans.”
Personally, I think that maintaining Indian traditions is completely American and you should not have to marginalize one for the other. We are all Americans with a hyphenated back story. But I also think the question was poorly asked and I wonder if the couple would have responded differently if it was a Desi reporter asking the question with more nuance. I also wonder how much of what they say to media is political posturing verses what they feel about identity behind closed doors.
Overall, I think it was a decent bio-fluff interview with no real hard hitting questions from 60 Minutes. We didn’t learn too many new Jindal facts, though Manish listed some here. But I think what this interview did for me was remind me that there’s a brown* guy in politics gunning for Obama’s seat in seven years. But from the other side. And my kind of brown*. And that is kind of… remarkable.
*I say brown. Republicans say beige. Can someone explain to me why he’s the “beige hope”, not “brown hope”?
America is not a christian country (no matter what bill o’reilly says!)
What wrong with being a christian country? Last time I checked both Canada and the United States are among the best places in the world to live in for person of a minority religon. Last time I checked they do better job then say Saudi Arabia, Iran or Pakistan for minority religons.
DesiinNJ, you have no idea why Jindal converted. As I said, I grew up in a predominantly white college town in flyover (Iowa) and did not have the racial tensions some of you describe. It’s just my experience, and others differ. That’s my point, really.
You know what I think? It’s not the Jindals or the converts of the world who are insecure about their culture. Some of you ‘doth protest do much’.
150 · Yoga Fire said
LOL. Just like having a Jewish name is an asset in the NYC Financial World, a future of having Desi sounding names can become an asset. Don’t you know, Hindus are the new Jews.
148 · PS said
To the extent that we can call anything a “fact”, it’s a fact.
Most Americans that change faith do it for personal reasons, not to fit in.
this is probably not true. see The Future of Religion, which reports a fair amount of social science data which shows that peer groups are the best predictor of later conversion. and marriage of course. i guess you could call this “personal,” but it think that it’s usually trying to “fit in” to your family or peer group.
149 · mountaindreamer said
Believe me, after his speech and his laughable performance on 60 minutes, his presidential hopes are over.
If a guy named Barrack HUSSEIN obama can be elected, a guy named Piyush Jindal can also be elected, but you gotta keep it real.
i think it is accurate to say that america is a nation of christians, just as it is a nation of whites (by the numbers). but it was not explicitly founded as christian or white, though these were implicit (the race element was made explicit through as series of state laws which banned black voting across the north in the 1800-1850 period, laws which some old-school federalists opposed). things like banning sunday mail and ‘in god we trust’ are 20th century artifacts, and campaigns to ban sunday mail in the 19th century failed, and several of the presidents during that period were not trinitarian christians.
153 · onparkstreet said
You are being apologetic for him, like some other dude here said. If David Duke gets 44% of votes and 60% plus white votes for Governor of LA in 1990, there has to be a lot of racial hatred when Bobby was growing up. I visited Baton Rogue a few times in early 90s, the unwelcome stares were evident. Could be just the people I met.
Ennis said: What struck me was how different he and Obama are in their attitudes towards being American. For Jindal, being American means assimilating to white culture, and discarding whatever other heritage you have. For Obama, being American means having plural heritages all brought together by common ideals.
onparkstreet (former MD) answers: if you have a hammer…….seriously, Ennis, there’s nothing inherently wrong with assimilating. You’ve all done it to some degree, it’s just the degree to which you’ve done it becomes your personal gold standard. Look at the ABCD epithet, to someone else, Ennis, you’re the assimilated one.
personally, I would never change my name. it’s obvious to me he changed it to fit in. the reasons as to why he converted are probably more complex and reasoned. neither of those things are under my judgmental fire. what I find interesting is that he seems to be at pains to deny his heritage. he looks into the mirror and he sees this awkward, brown, brainy nerd. what goes through his head, I wonder?
I was not born here but I’ve been here for almost three decades. I am as American as they come. I am also as Indian as I can be given my situation. I don’t hide from it. I do what I want to do, say what I want to say, look how I want to look. authenticity is something to aspire to, in my book. sure, it makes life a bit confusing at times.
authenticity is the reason Obama is where he is today. sure, he seemed to distance himself a little from a certain faction of black thought (see Tavis Smiley) but he did not distance himself from BEING BLACK in America. if anything, he “cashed in” on it. as for his international background, he carries around a good luck charm with Lord Hanuman on it for pete’s sakes (sourced, I guess, in his Indonesian years). America is a melting pot, but it’s turning out to be a spicy, frothy, chunky one… and if Jindal’s smart, he’d jump on THAT one instead of milksopping himself for the GOP. he’d have my respect (if not my vote) a lot more if he stood out instead of blending in. he’s never going to get anywhere in the GOP by doing what he’s doing right now. he’ll never be what he aspires to be, especially after that Rebuttal. his only hope is to be the best governor he can be and hope for a top cabinet post in the next Republican Administration. he will never be President.
You know what else is funny about this assimilation tamasha?
How Kenyan is Barack Obama? He’s seems pretty assimilated to me, wasn’t that the early criticism by some from the left? That he wasn’t real or authentically black?
Haha, just admit it. You like the left and don’t like the righty. It’s nothing to do with assimilation.
If a guy named Barrack HUSSEIN obama can be elected, a guy named Piyush Jindal
there’s an obvious problem with your conjecture. No way Obama, who most blacks in America, whether African or AA identified with, could have won the primaries without the black vote. Blacks are mostly democrat and many voted for Obama over Hillary, and imo, b/c he was black. Jindal doesn’t have this voting block. Indians disproportionately are represented in a lot of competitive fields but these are not things that the majority vote for. So Jindal has a very, very different situation.
the reasons as to why he converted are probably more complex and reasoned.
right. the model of human cognition assumed here is just not a good one. a lot of mental process occurs subconsciously. don’t we all know people who converted to religion X at one point and gave all these reasons, a, b, c, but later leave, and admit their real reason was x, y, z, but they couldn’t “admit it” to themselves at the time? and that’s just a toy model.
some hindus here have asserted that hinduism is really fundamentally monotheistic, while others have shot back at them that they’re trying to “sell out.” whatever the sincerity of the first group is (i think they’re usually being sincere), i think that one’s cultural environment affects how you weight and interpret different beliefs. IOW, it might be less that bobby jindal was explicitly “ashamed,” then that he was open to truth claims of christianity because of repeated negative associations with hinduism because of the norms in his milieu.
Bobby Jindal has done nothing he should apologize for, so why should I be an apologist? Maybe, just maybe, he met some Christians, was intrigued, and then decided he believed in Jesus Christ after learning about the religion and reading the bible. The frequency with which this could happen increases if you are surrounded by Christins. Duh.
If some white American went to India, and changed his name Bob to Raju, and became Hindu, what’s the big deal? None, as far as I can see. It’s Raju’s business.
How Kenyan is Barack Obama?
“problematizing” this assertion shows how artificial constructs like “kenyan” are. obama’s father was a luo born to a muslim family, as his grandfather had converted to islam from christianity. the luo are nilotic people while kenyans are bantu speaking, and they are not circumcized, while all the other non-muslim groups in kenya are. from what little i’ve read in his books obama understands that his background is really complex, though i think he does a little reconstructing to suit himself explicitly or implicitly.
161 · onparkstreet said
Not the same thing. And it has nothing to do with authenticity.
Barack Obama is Kenyan (not a religion, btw) and he is proud of a heritage that he openly discusses, in books and whenever it’s brought up. For example, he went out of his way to mention that he has Muslim family members in his first interview after taking office with Al Jazeera.
Bobby Jindal is apparently Indian, but we wouldn’t know it considering that he goes out of his way to even avoid talking about it, let alone purging any innate ties he had to it.
147 · PS said
What are you talking about? The scientific term ‘theory’ does not mean what you think it means. Please get your facts straight.
you’re missing my point, razib. my point is that bobby jindal is authentically bobby jindal as barack obama is authentically barack obama. that’s my point.
164 · onparkstreet said
If this Raju become CM and wants to teach Karma along with Evolution then I need to know why Bob became Raju.
161 · onparkstreet said
Obama was raised by his white, irish mother and white, irish grand-parents. He never claimed to be kenyan, other than biologically, but he still made the journey to Kenya and spend a few nights sleeping in his grand-mothers’ mud hut and staying with his sister in nairobi. He then kept in touch with his kenyan family members for 20 years, returning again in 2006 for yet another visit with his kids and wife.
Besides, he got 96% of the black vote in the end and the only people accusing him of not being authentically black were people like al sharpton and jesse jackson who are increasingly becoming out of touch with younger generation african-americans.
Holy crap, quoting someone on this site is apparently rocket science. Can’t it be made simpler?
razib – i forgot to add that (now i know why you don’t capitalize, it’s faster) assigning authenticity to minority groups is a way of controlling individuals. as a liberaltarian, i’d think you get that. i don’t like the control aspect of it. it’s a form of public shaming, and i think it’s misguided. remember, those of you who think you are authentic, there is someone in india who thinks you are assimilated and too western. so get off your high horse 🙂
peace!
whatever about barack and kenyan, he’s as self-constructed as bobby jindal is self-constructed. it’s their business.
let alone purging any innate ties he had to it.
if something is “innate” how could purge them? i read about how a british family who had adopted an indian girl had raised her catholic, and wondered if this was the right think by her culture. specifically, they wondered if they should have raised her hindu. but how do they know she wasn’t born to a muslim or christian family? the issue isn’t that jindal has changed his religion, right? it’s that it implies some disrespect toward his parents. but from what i can tell his parents are cool with him now, so what’s it our business? or are indian americans/and or/hindus invested in bobby jindal too?
171 · Tushar said
Compute science, actually. :-p
It works if you just delete all the spaces in between paragraphs and posts. It automatically closes the quote after the first space for some reason.
as a liberaltarian, i’d think you get that.
fwiw, i’m not a liberaltarian. i’m going more burkean. i don’t call myself a libertarian anymore.
that’s why i use italics. of course, i have to remember to close them.
Barack Obama is Kenyan (not a religion, btw) and he is proud of a heritage that he openly discusses, in books and whenever it’s brought up.
Again Obama’s situation is different than Jindal. Obama has voting block of blacks that helped him win the primaries. Jindal doesn’t have this voting block.
I like Obama a lot and yes, he talks about his background often in his books. But when he was running for President, his campaign did a lot to lessen his Muslim connections. What he espoused in his campaign was his mainstream Americanness, connected with nonblacks and also since he’s black he had a large voting block ready-made for him.
169 · DesiInNJ said
And Sonia Gandhi still managed to win an election by remaining a roman catholic inspite of taunts about her italian heritage and sphagetti English.
Keep it real.
good to know razib, i’m off both parties right now, i’m sick of the technocratic elite and the power grab, and the sheer incompetence of our entire political and elite class. the complete tax dodging corrupt horrors. the problem is, the libertarians just don’t do it for me, either. independent weighted toward the right, i guess, who appreciates some of the lefties. hard for a bumper sticker.
And Sonia Gandhi still managed to win an election by remaining a roman catholic inspite of taunts about her italian heritage and sphagetti English.
right, but i think this is where the difference between a parliamentary system and one where there’s direct election of the executive matters. fwiw, i think women have more problems being directly elected too.
but there is something egregious about changing faith to fit in.
How the fuck do you know that he changed his faith to fit in?
181 · Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery said
How the fuck you know he did not?
How the fuck do you know that he changed his faith to fit in?
right. it may be that the nicene creed is correct, that salvation goes only through the church of st. peter, and bobby jindal is privy to a personal revelation which we are not. those of you accept the reality of supernatural entities presumably can entertain this possibility.
How the fuck you know he did not?
right, but i think those of who are cautioning a bit more agnosticism are asserting that we shouldn’t make strong positive claims.
178 · nm said
Sonia Gandhi won because of her Family assocation, not because of her heritage. And, historically she has not imposed her religious beliefs on the Indian Educational System. Jindal on the other hand, has.
as for sonia gandhi –
How do you know you are an authentic desi?
i bet my born and raised in india parents would fail to be completely desi by the way some of you answer the AUTHENTICITY QUIZ
razib – do you think we may ever discover a part of the brain that correlates to strong religious experience? How do you know he didn’t have an intense religious experience, and therefore, is a believer. maybe aethiest lack this, so you don’t know about the conversion experience. so, his reality is REAL, just as your reality is REAL. you are being way to dismissive of the idea that such a thing as genuine religious experience exists for the individual.
Park Street,
From most of the comments it seems to me that his not-desi-enough comes not from his mannerisms and practices (like that list you put up) but a general sense of him not having pride in his being Indian. The mannerisms and practices are used ex post as evidence to confirm the conclusion after it has already been made.
Haha. . . “Educational system.”
, historically she has not imposed her religious beliefs on the Indian Educational System.
if you are alluding to creationism, it needs to be put in he record that american catholics tend not be creationist, and that the catholic church tends to lean away from creationism (it isn’t like you can’t be catholic and creationist of course). instead of look to his religion, look to the subculture of the american south in which jindal grew up more generally. again, from pew:
evolution is best explanation of human life, completely or mostly agree %
evangelicak – 23 mainline – 50 black church – 39 catholic – 58 mormon – 21 orthodox – 55 jewish – 77 muslim – 43 buddhist – 81 hindu – 80
I think you’ve touched on a very pertinent point. I just wonder what the experience is really like for desi christians – they have their own distinct culture and identity in different regions in india. I have read that churches here tend to be highly segregated. So wonder how it feels for a desi christian to walk into a predominantly white/black/asian church. Or does it not matter ?
161 · onparkstreet said
—
if you’re talking to me, sure, I said he’d never have my vote, didn’t I? I’ve got no problems admitting my political affiliation. but that doesn’t preclude my “liking” Jindal. I don’t dislike him, but I find his behavior unsettling to an extent. I’m trying to keep an open mind but lying blatantly in the rebuttal, and then, today, going back on that whole “rejecting parts of the stimulus” doesn’t get him any more brownie points than does changing his name and rejecting his parents’ religion.
by the way, if he did good and DID make the oval office some day, I suspect that I’d still be inordinately more proud of him than I’d be of any generic politician in the US. life’s kinda complicated for us desis here, huh?
oh, and I am an atheist, so, technically, I’ve also rejected my parent’s religion. (except I can still be Hindu so I’m good :p)
you are being way to dismissive of the idea that such a thing as genuine religious experience exists for the individual.
i’m a materialist/naturalist, so no i’m not. yes, in a post-modern sense he could have experienced something, but i believe that it doesn’t correspond to material/phenomenological reality. i’m an atheist, you’re surprised i’m dismissive?
uh, but he’s not indian, he’s american. what’s this pride in being indian stuff? Is that how we are defining authentically desi? okay, good to get the talking points. whatever.
how do you know that lefty politicians don’t play up authenticity because it wins them bonus points with their crew? so, they are both doing the same things, in ways to benefit their own political career. or maybe they are individuals who have taken a different path toward being american. it’s all good.
peace
And an amazing religious experience just happened to politically benefit this young man in a hurry. Who here thinks Bobby would have gotten this far in LA if he stuck to his Hindu roots.
and yes, for the record i do think atheists are wired differently (explaining why men are more likely to be atheists in every society surveyed).
How the fuck you know he did not?
I dont and thats why I am not claiming that he changed his faith in earnest. You however are claiming that he did not in fact change his faith in earnest. The burden of proof is on you 🙂
maybe obama should appoint a desi council which will verify if you are authentically desi enough.
I wonder how bad I would fail that test.
Jindal is a smart and accomplished guy but it is nothing short of astounding that his parents culture and traditions didn’t have any effect on who he is. If that isn’t incredibly dishonest or the height of self-deception, I don’t know what is. His mom and dad are highly educated and contributed to his genes and memes. Obama always comes across as honest; maybe he is not as smart and accomplished as Jindal but honesty and being comfortable in your skin (and acknowledging specific sources of discomfort) is important to be a leader in the long run (as opposed to being a policy wonk or technocrat). That’s the difference. Maybe he will change and mature with time as he must.
as some have alluded to, this is all a moot point now in a national sense. it looks like the jindal-is-muslim rumors will probably cause too much of a problem in any presidential primary. just like the romney-as-mormon fact screwed him. it doesn’t matter if most people are cool or sane, a minority can veto.
186 · onparkstreet said
Your “quiz” is unnecessarily long and yet still not comprehensive. All you need to do to show you are Indian is to answer yes to the following question:
“Are you proud of being an Indian or being attached in any way with India(ns) and/or it/their ideals?”
I don’t think Jindal would answer yes.