At the same time that one report mentions Sonal as a possible cabinet choice, Sonal seems to be under pressure as a member of the transition team as a couple of mainstream media outlets started to write about her.
I last posted about Sonal when she issued her statement, almost a month ago. In case, you’ve forgotten, here are the key things she said:
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“my personal politics have nothing in common with the views espoused by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), or any such organization”
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“I’ve always condemned any politics of division, of ethnic or religious hatred, of violence and intimidation as a political tool”
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“factually inaccurate internet rumors have attempted to link me to Hindu Nationalist groups through a variety of tenuous connections: Relief work I’m proud to have helped coordinate following the Gujarati earthquake of 2001 … “
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“I do not subscribe to the views of such Hindu nationalist groups, and never have”
Since then, however, there have been four new developments (listed chronologically) in the continuing saga of Sonal Shah:
<
p>1 The general secretary of VHP-America said Sonal was a member of the governing council of the VHPA for three years. Her critics followed up with a link to the “VHP Governing Council & Chapter Presidents/Coordinators List” in 1998, hosted on Hindunet.org, which showed Sonal as a member of that group, and listed her US Treasury department email as a contact.
Sonal’s earlier statement stated that she was not a member of any Sangh organization in India and had implied that she had never been a member of the VHP-A, but had simply coordinated relief efforts after the earthquake. There was no response by her supporters, some of whom had argued outright that she was not a member of the VHPA, to this news.
2 The transition team announced that Sonal’s work is on the Technology, Innovation and Government Reform panel.
When I found out that Sonal would be working on tech issues, not foreign policy or personnel issues, I thought this would quiet criticism since it made her past affiliations less relevant. However, as with point #1, there was little acknowledgement of this from the other side.
<
p>
3
Former senator Rick Santorum wrote an editorial calling Shah “the elephant in the room” where he said:
Shah should condemn the VHP and its actions soon. If she doesn’t, keeping her on – or, more ominously, giving her a post in the new administration – would send the message that the president-elect does not think the VHP is a radical organization. And this is a president-elect who is trying to “change” the image of the United States in the Islamic world with a foreign policy more sensitive to Muslim concerns. [link]
Santorum is generally known for his extreme and intolerant views, so if matters had stopped there, I think she could have ignored the piece without much political cost. The problem is that Santorum’s remarks took the issue out of the desi context where it could be contained, and brought them to a wider audience.
4
A blogger at the National Journal picked up the story with a post titled “Shah Pick Stirs Widespread Controversy.”
The National Journal is a center-left publication, owned by the Atlantic, whose core audience is DC insiders. Given that context, a story which framed Shah as attracting criticism from the left and the right, and which stated that “the controversy could put to rest any speculation that Shah might be shortlisted for a top Cabinet job” must have been most unwelcome.
Note that neither Santorum nor the National Journal have picked up on the fact that she was a member of the VHPA governing council.This leaves Shah room to take the initiative, it also means that things could get more awkward for her.
Recently, Sonal sent out an email which said she was under pressure as a result of this publicity. This email has now been removed from the blog post where I read it earlier, and it seems that Sonal’s friends and allies are rallying to her side, encouraging her to stay on.
Raj, you think Obama should have gotten more flack than a white politician and because of that situation, so should Sonal and Bobby? I’m amzed! You may be right about no desis who reach leadership positions escaping vindictive scrutiny by other desis, but I hope that will change.
I’m back to worx….
246 · portmanteau said
What? You’ve never seen HAMAS’s Mickey Mouse or the Kids reading poems about dying for their faith?
http://www.pmw.org.il/Bulletins_may2007.htm#b060507 http://pmw.org.il/tv%20part3.html http://pmw.org.il/tv%20part1.html
BEAT THAT VHP! They got Mickey Mouse…YOUR MOVE losers…and no Jambavan won’t cut it…
248 · Bleah
Throughout the post I keep mentioning Rahm Emmanuel. You are the first to pick up on Rahm Emmanuel in this thread. I don’t understand why this guy is getting the all clear either. How is the U.S. gonna look anymore independent of the Israeli / Palestinian issue with this guy in there?
If they all get cleared then it will be a great way for Obama to get some conflicting opinions and then do the opposite of what any of them think HOPEFULLY.
Kabir, By definition all religious groups are communal. Do you consdier the Pope to be communal? Ofcourse he is. It is his job, in fact part of his religious objectives is to defend, protect and spread his faith. Same would go for all religious groups. You are however correct that violent groups of all variety should not be promoted in any manner.
Sonal is being targeted uneccessarily for a singular association with a group who may not neccessarily share the view of extreme elements of a an associated unbrella organization. By this logic a significant population of India and the diaspora would be declared communal and not be allowed a public platform. This is guilt by association on steroids.
I don’t think an immediate-post-partition-era Sikh and Hindu alliance is exactly a glowing symbol of Religious tolerance…
Probably right. I was responding to Camille’s argument that While looking for info on VHP, I’m actually surprised that one of the co-founders was a Sikh.
I don’t think people (in the U.S.) realize the full baggage that those organizations carry or what it means when you tell someone that you are affiliated with, or even tacitly support, an organization that has a very explicit vision of what to do with dissidents and religious minorities.
248 · Bleah said
Or letting conflicting philosophies like Advaita and Tantra both be integral parts of it.
255 · Ponniyin Selvan said
Actually a representative of every faith that had its roots in India was there including the Dalai Lama I believe…too lazy to look up sources…Google?
I gotta start being the Galloping Granny!
254 · newbie said
This was what the last Holy Father said when he was invited by the Indian government, China on the other hand had rejected a request to visit it. He said this right before he left: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/travels/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_07111999_new-delhi_en.html
251 · Amrita said
So why are desis supposed to be excused when he wasn’t?
We are paying these people. If they don’t want to take the heat they should get out of the kitchen and take a private sector position. Take a pay check home and pay someone else their tax dollars to do the government job.
Actually a representative of every faith that had its roots in India was there including the Dalai Lama I believe…too lazy to look up sources…
Yup, the wiki says so. Looks like they wanted to fight against encroaching foreign faiths that included communism (I guess Nehruvian communism was strong at that time with the government patronage). 🙂
Maybe there is higher standard for Obama’s admin. but considering that Bush-Daud dynasty relationship aren’t the criticisms of Sonal Shah slight over-reaction ?
PS, someone saying they’re Sikh or identifying as Sikh doesn’t justify the ideology of the organization or make it suddenly “inclusive.” I think it’s plenty easy to find a Sikh out there who is anti-Muslim and anti-Christian and willing to endorse an ideology that stipulates that India is and should only be populated with “authentic, Hindu-derived” faiths (VHP’s argument, not mine). Those same Sikhs are also, for the most part, considered to be out of the mainstream faith community.
Amrita, really? I don’t even know what to say at this point.
With the comment re: Congress, that’s fine — there’s no love lost among Sikhs and either party. That said, there’s a difference, in my opinion, between a party that actively campaigns on exclusivist/repressive ideologies. Again, I’m not saying either is preferred or better, but I do think there’s a legitimate question re: why you would fundraise for an organization that is ok with things like forcible conversion.
And finally, the RSS and VHP are not the same as the Pope — is it really that hard to distinguish? I don’t even know why you’d want to pretend its the same thing. Ugh.
Raj, surely the standard for politicians of any race should be vetting without agitation? Putting up a bogus guilt-by-association meme out on the web and then promoting it is not mature politics. I’ll say it again, Sonal’s role on the transition team is not about electoral politics.
yes… lets lay off a bit. lets ease up regulations too. laws, who needs those. now that Bush screwed it up. No one can be worse so we should just give a “you’re not Bush so you’re good card” to everyone that wants one.
Because it is easier to pick on Hindus. If Prashad goes after Emmanuel, he may lose his job.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Tara_Singh
Nope, looks like this guy is the biggest leader of Sikhs starting from 1920s.
You can be a “leader” and still have a break from the community. Additionally, as Sikhs will tell you, there are any number of stupid people who have been elevated to positions of leadership (even against grassroots protest) through a series of processes that did not allow for real democratic participation. There are also people who are great leaders on one issue and break with the community when they choose tactics that are considered abhorrent.
But, of course, it’s easier to cite Wikipedia and attribute equal weight to divergent opinions than engage in critical analysis.
Camille, I think VHP minus the violence would have lot of similarities with christian faith group who are going about defending and spreading the gospel. I don’t know who you are talking about when you say “forcible conversions”
I was not comparing Pope to VHP but just pointing out that all religious groups by definition are communal. Most religious groups would also by definition promote exclusivity of their religion. (BTW, You should read some of this Pope’s and past Popes speeches. You migh learn a thing or two.)
Only thing I am saying is that by this questioning of Sonal’s bonafides standard, lot of people would get disqualified based on the view that they are communal (including Bobby Jindal and assorted desi politicians in Canada). The test is that in office, politicians and appointees should not make decisions based on their faith or ideology. I will submit to you that this has been very hard to do in India (by all parties) and might be relatively easier here to do in the US – i say relatively because of experience with the current President and past history of US.
227 · RahulD said
Yeah, and when some Hindus criticised JP-2’s call – in India, on Dipavali no less – to claim Asia (an India) for Christ and plant the cross therein; they were abused and vilified. So it is OK for some Baptist and extremist Xtian groups in the US and other parts of the world to fund pure-play soul harvesting in India, but not OK for the RSS/VHP to ask Christian and Muslim Indians to consider an India centered belief and practice? Camille while I am sure that there are Hindus in India who uphold all kinds of extremist beliefs (as of course there are people of all faiths who do so) the VHP/RSS isn’t talking of expelling people of any faith. And BTW is anyone investigating the decades long nexus between soul-harvesting groups outside India and Christian terrorist outfits in NE India?
Prashad is a smear merchant extraordinaire. Thanks to him entire graduating classes of ABDs have been trained in vicious and vacuous talking points. It is to Prashad we owe the vile practice of demonizing any and every Hindu-centric organization. Prashad has the habit of conflating any program of action related to Hinduism with the work of violent rabble. Rajiv Malhotra and his Infinity Foundation too have been the target of his vicious smears. After being bested in debate on the pages of the Outlook Prashad took to dubbing Malhotra and his organization a non-violent equivalent of the Sambhaji Briagade that trashed the Bhandarkar Institute in the furore over James Laine’s book on Shivaji. If this is what Prashad can do to an scholarly organization (which is what the other great ignoramus of India studies Meera Nayyar does) one shudders to think what he can do to any budding scholar who is still on the make. We should be asking where Prashad acquired the credentials or authority to define Hinduism given that he is always bleating about the issue.
Are you saying that Master Tara Singh is an insignificant leader and we should not cite wikipedia ?. I’ve seen references to Tara Singh’s name in many books that deals with the history of India around the partition time frame. The wiki reference was a pointer to you.
This guy apparently had a mass following of Sikhs and it is surprising that you dismiss him to be an inconsequential just because he doesn’t suit your point.
12 · kayastha_lady said
Waahahaaahahahahahahhaahahaaahaahaah. That posting was such a bunch of nonsense. But thank you for making me laugh, please keep on barking it’s realy entertaining to read the comments of those without properly functioning brains.
newbie, maybe. I think that VHP’s history of violence is inextricably bound up with its political posturing. That said, I have the same problem with VHP that I have with evangelical Christian organizations that promote violence and the establishment of theocratic regimes. By definition those organizations promote an extreme vision both of their religion/beliefs and of how they believe the world should be organized. And thanks, I have read the Pope’s speeches. I haven’t learned much except that the current Pope is taking huge backwards steps for Roman Catholics everywhere on issues of religious tolerance.
jyotsana, I think it’s easy to see RSS/VHP as innocuous. They have articulated, and acted upon, a policy that specifies a very limited idea of who is Indian and who deserves to be in India. Expulsion is less of a problem if you’re promoting violence that kills people off.
Prashad is a communist symphatiser. There are many communist terror groups active in India. Conclusion: Prashad is a terrorist that needs a one way ticket to Guantanamo Bay very fast
273 · tonji said
Dude…who sends communists to Gitmo…are there any real communists still left outside of Bengal and Kerala?
But still…communists!!! they do Grind My Gears, WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE? why don’t they get with the freaking program…Its called a “flat world” people!
272 · Camille said
In fact in India there are organizations in every part of the country that want some people out of their state/region. So you have Kashmir Valley jihadis who first ethnically cleansed the area of its Hindu Pandits and now want the Hindu mandirs too to be reduced to rack and ruin through officially sanctioned neglect. And then there are the Bangladeshi criminally illegal aliens in assam who are driving out the Bodos from the plains acting in concert with the ULFA who have been quelled by the nationalistic Bodos. In Mizoram, Meghalaya, and Nagaland many small Hindu groups have been marginalised and any person from out of state (as it happened with Kiran Bedi) is one step away from trouble. Switch over to Malda and Murshidabad were again Bangladeshi criminals are now terrorising Hindu communities and this year almost banned the Durga Puja and Kali Puja celebration. In Tamil Nadu we have a CM who for decades has heaped scorn, insult, and filth on Brahmins – their dress, their food, their observances etc., Also last year the Dravida Kazhagam a bunch of extreme nazi-like crooks vandalised several temples during the dispute over building the Sethu Canal – which is when Karunanidhi also questioned Rama credentials in engineering and his sobriety. Never mind the AP Assembly passing a resolution condemning Jyllands-Posten and the Govt of India withdrawing an official inviteto the PM of Denmark. And of course how can we forget our brave and gallant Raj Thackeray. So this sort of vile territoriality is quite common in India. But demanding that entire groups of people leave India? That’s a stretch.
Yeah, but one without the guts to take on the Jewish lobby. Which is why the model of Hindu political activism in the US is AIPAC. I am not sure that is a good trend, but that’s what you get when you keep labeling largely harmless people as fascists.
OK Intern, time to close this thread. Invariably after 300 posts this is where we always get after every blog posting touching the communal-secular issue. Can we have some eye candy please.
Can someone please link to VHP/RSS’s links to all the terror that is being referred to. I always thought it was Bajrang Dal but I will stand corrected if you will be kind enough to post some links.
The Bajrang Dal is part of the VHP. There are a bunch of links on the wikipedia page.
I would like those links too. I’m unclear on the differences between and the different functions of the BJP, VHP, RSS, and Bajrang Dal. I have a feeling (just based on the illogical comments by some people) that certain commenters aren’t clear on it either, even though they would like to think they are.
Ignore my last comment, for some reason I thought they were separate organiztions and at some point Bajrang Dal was banned by Indian Government.
Although I wouldn’t necessarily agree with all the specific points, I think this was by far the best comment on this thread so far.
A simple diffrentiator RSS –> political wing – Jan Sangh (BJP successor to JS after 1980) RSS –> social wing – VHP(1964)
Bajrang Dal was founded in relation to the Babri Masjid issue (1984).
Bajrang Dal is the youth wing of the VHP.
278 · umber desi said
read about the link posted earlier about bhagalpur, about orissa riots, about babri masjid. these are direct vhp links, not bajrang dal, which is of course the notorious “youth wing” of the vhp.
not to mention direct bjp connection to bhagalpur, babri – major event in hindu-muslim relations in india, and gujarat.
i think israel is a bad role model for india to emulate, as is the support for right wing likud like forces in american politics. citing rahm emanuel’s acceptability is not a good defense of sonal.
Sure, but that is where this push will lead India, if it is not already there.
Why?
(I’m not saying that you’re wrong — I merely want to hear your reasons for your statement).
The letter is online! Sorry for the long posting yesterday. A coalition of Indian American individuals and organizations has sent a letter to President-Elect Obama Re: US Policy on Hindu Nationalist Groups in India and the US, mentioning Sonal Shah toward the end of the letter.
287 · vhp terror said
It is a good idea to go the way of the Anti Defamation League and AIPAC at least as far as Hindu related matters is concerned. Incidentally some rightist Jews (e.g., David Klinghoffer) consider the ADL a leftist entity!! Isn’t it funny that Vijay Prashad can write an invective filled creed titled “Namaste Sharon” on Ariel Sharon’s visit to India but has never once written an article critical of the many Middle Eastern despots who have visited India? It takes a Saeed Naqvi an an MJ Akbar to take the Indian government to task for bending and scraping before Middle Eastern despots. Compare the sharp criticism that greeted Mearshimer and Walt’s anti-Israel book to the wild praises a piece of trash like Martha Nussbaum’s latest that all but singles out Gujaratis for an intellectual broadside or Sen’s apologia for jihadophiles “Identity and…”. Sen BTW hasn’t been called to account for lending the Bangladesh government legitimacy by ignoring its pogramatic behaviour towards minorities for the last several years. Thanks to SN Balagangadara we are seeing the beginnings of a intellectually informed articulation of Hindu tradition whose review of Sen’s “Argumentative…” (it is intelligently mediocre) remains a classic.
Good to know that Prashad is not the only person clinging to her to ward of irrelevance.
290 · ltr said
Interestingly one of the signatories listed, “World Tamil Organization”, is reputed to be among the many fronts for the child-soldier and drug smuggling racketeer terrorist group, the LTTE of Sri Lanka! This one and another group FeTNA too are suspected to be fronts for the now fast declining LTTE.
Sonal may be mentioned pretty far down, but she remains the main point of this letter. I suppose some of us could post objections to the letter or a link to this discussion to change.gov as well.
291 · jyotsana said
it requires an extraordinary persecution and victimization complex to see this mild mannered book as an apologia (independent of what you think of its quality).
is sonal shah out yet?
57 · melbourne desi said
Filthy crappola. After 9/11, one of the first, I repeat first, things I heard him say was to reiterate the need not to victimise innocent muslims and hos resolve to protect them. That is way more than what Modi, LK Advani or Vajpayee managed during the 2002 riots.
149 · Ponniyin Selvan said
And everything you say justifies Modi. Bad logic is the hallmark of the Right
This is supposed to be a south asian forum, not an Indian forum I submit that the VHP is more liberal to minorities than the most secular parties in Pakistan or Bangladesh
Compare the post 1947 ethnic cleansing in both Pakistan and Bangladesh vs India
If the same yardstick against Sonal is used every Pakistani and Bangladeshi muslim immigrant must be automatically disqualified
liberal,
No it simply requires some clear thinking and plainspeaking. The author Sen (with his overblown claims of being a Sanskritist!) is asking us to ignore all those violence threatening protests in Europe (demonstrators brandishing posters calling for all kinds of violence against the government and Jyllands-Posten) and the many actual incidents of violence in India, the craven, terror-appeasing members of the Andhra Pradesh state legislature who passed a resolution condemning Denmark, and the spineless Indian federal administration that withdrew an official initation to the PM of Denmark. So that’s liberal’s definition of a mild- mannered book? Threatening Jyllands-Posten journalists with death and killing Theo Van Gogh or threatening Geert Van Wilders with bodily harm is victimisation and persecution. An academic like Amartya Sen who tries to distract us with high flown syrupy prose and asks us to forget these facts is not simply a spineless appeaser but an active agent sustaining intolerance. Dishonesty personified.
We know why the entire Indian-Pakistani cabal of progressive hacks have kept out of the vigorous debate on secularism/skepticism/atheism here in the US, a coutry where they have found a comfortable perch to live and work in. That is because Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris/Dennet/Pat Condell/Paul Kurtz attack all belief and doctrine while for the Prashad type pseudo-progressive crowd only Hinduism represents fair game and Zionism (a convenient mask in the argument that attempts to privilege one belief system over several others) is the only modern ideology targeted for attack. This is such a vile and willfully dishonest intellectual sham.
If you think that the RSS has brought together Hindus and Sikhs, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Amongst most Sikhs the RSS is seen as a strongly hostile anti-Sikh organization. I could put it more directly and crudely but I want to follow our own guidelines.
In addition, I love how you compare Sangh sponsored violence to the Crusades to excuse it, rather than condemn it.