At the same time that one report mentions Sonal as a possible cabinet choice, Sonal seems to be under pressure as a member of the transition team as a couple of mainstream media outlets started to write about her.
I last posted about Sonal when she issued her statement, almost a month ago. In case, you’ve forgotten, here are the key things she said:
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“my personal politics have nothing in common with the views espoused by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), or any such organization”
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“I’ve always condemned any politics of division, of ethnic or religious hatred, of violence and intimidation as a political tool”
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“factually inaccurate internet rumors have attempted to link me to Hindu Nationalist groups through a variety of tenuous connections: Relief work I’m proud to have helped coordinate following the Gujarati earthquake of 2001 … “
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“I do not subscribe to the views of such Hindu nationalist groups, and never have”
Since then, however, there have been four new developments (listed chronologically) in the continuing saga of Sonal Shah:
<
p>1 The general secretary of VHP-America said Sonal was a member of the governing council of the VHPA for three years. Her critics followed up with a link to the “VHP Governing Council & Chapter Presidents/Coordinators List” in 1998, hosted on Hindunet.org, which showed Sonal as a member of that group, and listed her US Treasury department email as a contact.
Sonal’s earlier statement stated that she was not a member of any Sangh organization in India and had implied that she had never been a member of the VHP-A, but had simply coordinated relief efforts after the earthquake. There was no response by her supporters, some of whom had argued outright that she was not a member of the VHPA, to this news.
2 The transition team announced that Sonal’s work is on the Technology, Innovation and Government Reform panel.
When I found out that Sonal would be working on tech issues, not foreign policy or personnel issues, I thought this would quiet criticism since it made her past affiliations less relevant. However, as with point #1, there was little acknowledgement of this from the other side.
<
p>
3
Former senator Rick Santorum wrote an editorial calling Shah “the elephant in the room” where he said:
Shah should condemn the VHP and its actions soon. If she doesn’t, keeping her on – or, more ominously, giving her a post in the new administration – would send the message that the president-elect does not think the VHP is a radical organization. And this is a president-elect who is trying to “change” the image of the United States in the Islamic world with a foreign policy more sensitive to Muslim concerns. [link]
Santorum is generally known for his extreme and intolerant views, so if matters had stopped there, I think she could have ignored the piece without much political cost. The problem is that Santorum’s remarks took the issue out of the desi context where it could be contained, and brought them to a wider audience.
4
A blogger at the National Journal picked up the story with a post titled “Shah Pick Stirs Widespread Controversy.”
The National Journal is a center-left publication, owned by the Atlantic, whose core audience is DC insiders. Given that context, a story which framed Shah as attracting criticism from the left and the right, and which stated that “the controversy could put to rest any speculation that Shah might be shortlisted for a top Cabinet job” must have been most unwelcome.
Note that neither Santorum nor the National Journal have picked up on the fact that she was a member of the VHPA governing council.This leaves Shah room to take the initiative, it also means that things could get more awkward for her.
Recently, Sonal sent out an email which said she was under pressure as a result of this publicity. This email has now been removed from the blog post where I read it earlier, and it seems that Sonal’s friends and allies are rallying to her side, encouraging her to stay on.
199 · jyotsana said
thank you. i always appreciate a fan.
199 · jyotsana said
except i didn’t make any of these claims, so that dance you are seeing is from shadows in your head.
“i am no sympathizer of evangelical xtianity, but unless you have evidence that the dominant strains of xtian missionary work involve burning temples and villages and threats of retribution…”
this is not a defence of the vhp, but missionary-supported violence is not unheard of in india, especially the northeast:
From the BBC (2000):
Nagmanlal Halam, secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, was arrested late on Monday with a large quantity of explosives.
Mr Sarkar said that allegations about the close links between the state’s Baptist Church and the rebel National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) have long been made by political parties and police.
…The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura’s indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control.
Last year, they issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja.
The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura.”
another BBC article, i think, mentioned the funding for this organization flowing from foreign Baptist churches.
Thanks for the kind words, RahulD. it’s godwin, though – to goodwin a thread would probably mean to inject 18th century american presidential history into it 🙂 hannah is good 🙂
on an aside, i think introducing modi or maybe “islam” is how you godwin a thread in desi spheres, not hitler 🙂 it’s a little like how they sell mein kampf on the street corneres of new delhi – different space, different rules.
Thanks…Appreciate the advice…But again…you have failed to state what Im supposed to be arguing against or why what I’ve stated is wrong…
Would this approach be of more benifit in approaching your viewpoints?
older members of my family also tell me that RSS were phenomenal volunteers during the partition and were very helpful for it. for what it’s worth, much of my family is very pro-bjp and pro-rss. but the recent behavior wrt to the ATS, malegaon blasts, the good works of VHP in Orissa, as well as Raj Thackeray’s histrionics have made them reconsider.
203 · Whose God is it anyways? said
yep, thanks. this sounds like christian terrorism to me, alright. didnt leap to mind because i didnt remember recent incidents of that ilk, but the northeast is rife with all kinds of extremism.
204 · dr amonymous said
My bad on Godwin, sleep deprivation…trying to write a research proposal on enhancing the Cultural Worldview of military interpreters by providing gradually dissonant information that alleviates anxiety and reduces arousal (Terror Management Theory stuff)
And as you can tell, Im stuck on writing a succinct title…
205 was directed towards gbs or whatever his ID was
200 · dr amonymous said
Unfortunately, many are not able to see that there are extremists from ALL religions and groups. Once you realize that even people in your group (whomever you are) can be extremists you will start to fight against idiots and not blanket whole groups as pious and evil.
If you are human it should make you want to vomit when you see the videos of Brahmins joking about how they raped Dalit women in the street (which were posted on Sepia Mutiny before).
If you are human you will have issues with U.S. foriegn policy that kills and plots people against their neighbors.
If you are human you will be ashamed that someone claiming your religion incited such young men to do such evil things.
The persecution complex is real and whomever has the biggest budget this week is going to win the sympathy and have their own group’s wrong doings over looked.
Its a cycle and if it comes to people of your group it didn’t just happen out of nowhere.
Ignorance isn’t bliss and when you wake up it will be the best thing to end the cycle of violence and hate.
206 · portmanteau said
In general, except from what we have seen here with Rob’s membership, the VHP consists of people who are ritually observant. It’s not in their platform but per my observation it does seem to attract many of the “Dalits have it so easy” crowd who whine & whinge about reservation etc though I know just as many people who are active in the org that believe caste is Hinduism’s greatest scourge. Many of the old RSS guys are agnostic or atheist and use Hindu in a more realistic way to mean anyone of a non-Muslim/Christian South Asian background regardless of belief (contrast with the VHP which equates Vedic religion with Hinduism). I think this group has been taken over by VHP types which is why you pbly see an old guard quite different from the new batch
Tch tch, all this useless talk over a speculated energy secretary nomination, which ain’t gonna happen.
The energy appointment will show whether Obama is for real, or just another well-executed Hollywood script. Energy is the most important position in this administration, given Obama’s stated plans. Everything else — state, defence, finance — are firefighting operations. The finance job is nothing more than a printing press operator.
The energy person will be in charge of two goals: moving the US to renewable energy, and re-industrialising America. No mean feat by themselves, but almost impossible when up against the lobbying power of established energy titans and the Saudis, and a whole host of other folks who depend on the petro dollar.
There is only person from the Desi community, perhaps even the larger population, who has the technical and financial expertise, vision, connections, and the bullheadedness needed for the energy position — Vinod Khosla.
184 · Divya on December 8, 2008 10:04 AM · Direct link · “Quoteâ€(?) The sort of thing that vhp and rss are doing is par for the course for both of these religions. Spreading the faith it is called. When hindus attempt such a thing it is fascism.
My political knowledge started around when Ram Janmabhoomi happened and I was playing with my Muslim friends in a fenced community a mile away from where Hindus and Muslims were killing each other…and we just so happened to see one such incident go down…So I know what the VHP became to Indians of my generation…I wasn’t in India during Godhra, I wasn’t there during the recent blasts in Bombay…I obviously wasn’t there last week. I agree with you to the extent that some of the people who are calling VHP and RHS as fascist organizations have not only NEVER been there, they aren’t even informed properly of the situation or the processes but judge it from whatever arbitrary moment they decided to become politically aware of India (last week??)
I guess we can make the argument that what the VHP and RSS is par for Contemporary Islam or Colonialist Christianity…But I believe that what they stand for is certainly not Hinduism. For them to claim to be the voices of RELIGIOUS Hinduism is ridiculous. In my religion, we solve disputes by sitting in a room with other subject matter experts and argue till the flower garland around our neck fades…
The Hinduism that exists today is symbolic of the devolution of the very process that made it so enduring…The ability to imbibe, infuse and expand on other forms of knowledge…We were never a single entity, and any organization that proclaims so is fooling us and themselves. But While I believe that, I also do not think it is my place to tell other people what organization they should be members of and then call them Fascists or Racists just because they are a part of it…When in truth, the organization is neither.
There is a quote from a movie that more than any contemporary philosophy echoed my personal viewpoints…Its from the movie “Munich” and it goes We are supposed to be righteous. That’s a beautiful thing. And we’re losing it. If I lose that, that’s everything. That’s my soul. As Hindus we can be part of any organization we want, but we should try to use it to induce change through non-violent means whilst entrenching the values that are important to us, that seems to be the only thing that Sonal Shah has done…to criticize her and undermine her candidacy from inside her own community is nothing short of blatant hypocrisy bereft with a lack of understanding of who she is.
That’s what they all say 🙂 To everything there is a season . . .
202 · gbs said
You need a DVR. Prices are pretty low these days, you can get one on the cheap.
Neither do I heap all blame on ideologies nor on their followers. Evangelical xtians in the US are not a monolithic group. In my outreach work with xtians in my county I have worked with a spectrum Episcopalians/Methodists/Lutherans/Baptists/AME/Catholic/Orthodox. Recently I talked with a Baptist pastor (is that the right term) about a controversy over yoga at a school in Upstate NY. I told the pastor that Yoga is Hindu and that he is right in saying so. And also that asana is only 1/8th of all yoga. And that if he is going to be considering yoga he must look at his own attitudes towards belief/faith/doctrine. I would tell him that he can practice yoga but still be Christian although a Christian as a Hindu would see it, and may be not how another Christian would see it. And also told him that there is a case for practicing yoga in schools because it would not violate the establmt clause. I have had it a little harder with the Catholic churches I have been to. Because let’s say they have some heightened concerns about any ordinarily clad guy who doesn’t “look” or “act” Hindu and bats away caste and cows in the first minute. But evangelical/pentecostal and other proselytisation groups in India are more homogeneous and as a rule are concerned about purity of belief and practice.
And while we are it can we cast some light on the other Indian-American religious organisations? FIACONA, CAIR etc? In all the recent Ten Commandments monuments cases the Hindu American Foundation, ADL, PFAW, and others have been involved. But FIACONA, CAIR, FOIL, Vijay Prashad and Co. etc., have all been AWOL missing big time.
The reference is to the Story of Shankara arguing Advaita…Never mind
How big of a difference is there between the RSS and VHP? I personally know some very decent old people who were members of RSS in India in their youth.
I think RSS is started by atheists who are Hindu nationalists / fascists, and VHP is started by believers that included a Sikh.
The stream of comments that are attempting to conflate Hinduism with the VHP/RSS ARE FULL OF CRAP. The VHP/RSS are not “Hindu-interest” or representation groups. They expound a toxic and narrow ideology that labels Christians and Muslims invaders, legitimizes their ethnic cleansing from India, and then tries to subsume “indigenous” religions under their vision of Hinduism. It is an extreme nationalist organization that has no respect for, or sense of, diversity. Not within its own internal definition of what makes a Hindu a Hindu, and not within its definition of what it believes is “authentically Indian.” They’re also incredibly active in the U.S. in trying to establish themselves as an “authoritative” voice for Hindus, so I wouldn’t be surprised if people have grown up in “moderate” spaces and feel that this criticism is unwarranted.
It is limited and dangerous to pretend that because they tout a compelling justification for why they are “protecting” persecuted Hindus that their violence against India’s minorities is legitimate. If this were ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION we would be arguing about two things, 1) whether or not they represented “mainstream” members of that faith community; and 2) whether they should be allowed political power if we believe they engage in, or facilitate, terrorist activity. There is no dissonance between saying that we should not use extremists as representatives of a mainstream community (often the argument when we’re talking about groups that engage in hateful activity and justify it as rooted in Islam), and saying that the VHP is not a mainstream rep, but an extreme one.
RahulD, are you seriously arguing that the Republican Party is equal to a party that has been directly responsible for galvanizing communal violence? There’s a difference between saying some of your members also belong to the KKK and saying that you ARE in the KKK because it “broadly represents your interests.” I really think they’re that bad. They are less like a mainstream political party and more like an exclusionary party. Would you make the same argument if we were talking about Hamas?
To bring it back to the real issue, I think this comment summed up what’s going on.
Things have changed, but it’s always like that (cyclical) 🙂 Welcome back. 🙂
How big of a difference is there between the RSS and VHP? I personally know some very decent old people who were members of RSS in India in their youth. Based strictly on my interactions and definitely not being an apologist RSS elders were surprisingly tolerant of opposing views (mine). Definitely not as simpleminded as some comrades like to paint them. Think Gandhi started out well and then went to the dark side. Older punjabis I know are quite pro-RSS (see portmanteau’s partition comment).
VHP: Remember those fools rioting over Satanic Verses? Many of them didn’t know much about Rushdie’s book or Koran. VHP people I meet seem like their hindu version.
218 · Camille said
Nope, thats not what I meant to say at all…And like I clarified later, I made that post in a hurry and was basically annoyed by the hollow criticism of certain posters like gbs that lack substantive arguments. What I was trying to say was that you cannot define an organization by its fringe elements, not everyone who joins an organization is in it to gain dominance…I guess a better example would be in the arguments levelled against the Church of Scientology. I was trying to coalesce viewpoints Ive read on this website that equate all Republicans to racists because of some of them…or all Southern Christians to idiots because of studies done on unrepresentative samples.
The HAMAS to me is pure evil, it is as bad as Pol Pot and the Nazis, the more Ive learned about them the more Ive learned to hate them – they make both Al Qaeda and LeT seem moderate (if such a thing exists in Islamofascism)…But thats another thread for another day (and here is to hoping that thread never comes up)
220 · RahulD said
for the benefit of all persecuted commenters, i am still looking for where i said that all hindus are bad. equating vhp to republican party is a joke. my last comment on this topic.
RahulD, cool. Just wanted to figure out what the underlying argument was. I know that there are incredibly kind people who say that they are members of the VHP/RSS. I don’t think people (in the U.S.) realize the full baggage that those organizations carry or what it means when you tell someone that you are affiliated with, or even tacitly support, an organization that has a very explicit vision of what to do with dissidents and religious minorities.
I also think, on this site, we often jump to conclusions about what people’s positions/arguments are going to be (e.g., all the posters who immediately talked about how the “left” or “liberals” on this site call the RSS Hindu Fascists) instead of hearing them out. I just wanted to understand / hear yours out.
218 · Camille said
Im sorry that people like us are ruining your website, but I guess some reactions are just that…reactionary…You bash something valuable to somebody, they are likely to defend it…I have no desire no vested interest to argue the “Indian from India” viewpoint nor do I believe in any inherent moral superiority to be an “Indian from India” – but you gotta figure why someone might find certain things touchy…
Doc, I assure you that you are wrong, so please get out of Sonal’s way! You do not have authority, even in a democracy, to interfere with anybody’s job until they answer your questions,whatever they may be. Who appointed you and the Prashad-led agitators to act as gatekeeper to positions on Obama’s transition team?– never mind Obama’s cabinet appointments!?!
I don’t think people (in the U.S.) realize the full baggage that those organizations carry or what it means when you tell someone that you are affiliated with, or even tacitly support, an organization that has a very explicit vision of what to do with dissidents and religious minorities.
That’s right. I can’t figure out why one of the co-founders of VHP is a religious minority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHP
224 · Amrita said
So because you are a fan of a particular possible appointee you think that once we elected the president elect we are supposed to let him do whatever he wants for 4 – 8 years? Are you suggesting that the congress just not show up to work and let him do whatever he wants as well ? You must have been sitting pretty for the last 8 years. We elected the CEO ( however corrupt the process) and as stakeholders in the company we actually do get a say (however powerful that voice maybe) about who is on the board. Eventually if its too much trouble she won’t be appointed.
The purpose of the people in democracy and the original purpose of the media is to GET IN THE WAY of politicians and their people. If no one gets in the way that means no one is asking questions.
GET IN THE WAY PEOPLE … GET IN THE WAY. Get in the way until those who are being paid by tax dollars have to be accountable and remember that they are here to serve the people of the U.S.
On comment#225 by P S
I don’t think an immediate-post-partition-era Sikh and Hindu alliance is exactly a glowing symbol of Religious tolerance…
That being said, from what I remember the VHP does consider Sikhism, Buddhism and Jainism as Hinduism…I think the Akhal Takht actually took exception to “whatsisname Bhaiyya” saying that at somepoint in the last decade (before he died?).
I dunno if anyone actually asked their spokesperson what they think of one of the Vedas mentioning the Parsees and Jews as just sub-sects of Brahmins…who were from another area in the world. I think the verse talks about how they were from a distant land and they came back home or something like that.
223 · RahulD said
rahuld, i was pointing to exactly what you say. i mean that fluff posts seem besides the point these days (i remember someone getting very annoyed by makeup tips offered by certain devis on the MIA thread), and people have been so rattled by what is going that these days that we are all in to defend our various POVs. cordiality be damned. because times are pretty fraught and many of us feel that the stakes are suddenly higher. maybe i’m in india so this feeling is more magnified. i have no proprietary right over sepia whatsoever. and you’re not spoiling ‘my’ site. my mood OTOH…;)
So because you are a fan of a particular possible appointee you think that once we elected the president elect we are supposed to let him do whatever he wants for 4 – 8 years? Are you suggesting that the congress just not show up to work and let him do whatever he wants as well ? You must have been sitting pretty for the last 8 years.
The above is yours, Raj, and is the part I didn’t say– get your block quotes straight, m’dear.
Sonal is not a politician, and I doubt very much whether this storm in a teacup has the force to make much impact on Obama. He can just ask Sonal to resign– the only person affected/harmed by this agitation would be Sonal, and that would be because of noise generated, not whether she actually bears managerial responsibiities regarding events in Godhra or the mistreatment of Christian adivasis. This episode is nothing but a personal attack on Sonal parading as something bigger, and that is typical, unforunately, of Desi crabs in this great big bucket.
228 · portmanteau said
Hey man, for what its worth…you seem to have a valid point most of the time. Sorry about the mood, lets find some middle ground…know any places in the midwest that make Bhang?
I think on principle that Sonal Shah’s being part of VHP-A and being part of the US government is equivalent to someone being a part of Jamaat-Ud Dawa and being part of the US government. Of course, in the real world, someone who was on the leadership board of Jamaat-ud Dawa-USA or some other “Islamofascist” organization would never even be considered for a US cabinet post, but philosophically/morally the situations are equivalent. I think that Ms. Shah should resign or be asked to leave. And this is not persecution of Hindus, as I would be asking the same of anyone who supported a communal organization of any other religion.
231 · Kabir Altaf said
There should be some amount of logic shown when comparisions are being made…20,000 drunk, sexually opressed men in North India armed with lathis is not the equivalent of an organized financial network that has a budget of around $850 million dollars directly supplying bombs to the very people who have been blowing themselves up in theatres and marketplaces or planting IEDs
But the later part of your point is valid…anyone who supports any communal organization of any religion shouldn’t hold a federal post of power…
Sexually REPRESSED…sorry for that faux pas…
224 · Amrita said
<
blockquote>
I think you answered my questions:
This is basically what your defense of Ms. Shah’s participation in the Obama transition team and potentially his administration rests on. No lessons from the last 8 years?
also to clarify: i think this question completely turns on fact. if sonal shah can provide good evidence that her vhp-a involvement is ideologically empty (which is difficult no doubt), then there is no reason (assuming that she’s qualified to manage her portfolio) to keep her out of the obama administration.
i only went down the thorny path of denouncing hindu extremists, talking about a persecution complex, financing extra-legal organizations* etc because i was so put off by rob’s grandiose gesture 🙂 if vhp just barked and never bit it would be a different story.
just to make a quick comment on louicypher’s observation about ‘the dalits have it so easy’ crowd: it is not that uncommon to hear that the mumbai attacks were caused mainly by hiring underqualified sc/st personnel in the government. there is a certain uncle (and a few aunties too) that can be counted on for bringing it all back to the curses of the reservation system.
*like the durga vahini beating up random students on college campuses in gujarat makes my blood boil. they break up couples or people who appear to be couples. wtf?? who appointed these clowns as moral arbiters? similarly, i have little patience for unelected muslim legal lobbying bodies. they represent the most unjust and regressive provisions which may not even be acceptable to many indian muslims, yet state and central governments and even the judiciary have to kowtow to their whims.
Hi, Portmanteau–sorry you’re disappointed in me, but glad you told me. I’ll look into the org. much more before I run for office. . . .
Rahul,
Maybe the exact comparison has problems. But I was going for the fact that this excuse that one is supporting a purely “charitable” arm of a militant/communal organization is not an excuse. An individual is responsible for researching the organizations he or she chooses to support. When there are other alternatives out there to make a difference that are not ethically compromised, we should support those. If I wanted to make a difference for the poor in Pakistan or for earthquake relief or whatever, I would not funnel my donations through Jamaat-Ud-Dawa. If I did, and then was in the running for a cabinet post, there would be a problem….
Anyway, I’m glad you agree with my larger point that anyone who supports a communal organization should not hold a federal post of power. If Ms. Shah does get nominated, I hope the Senate will question her very carefully about this issue before confirming her (or not).
Okay, doing this over, with new blockquotes, and hoping it works, SMIntern:
First of all, the president elect’s cabinet appointments will of course be reviewed by the Senate for confirmation, but Sonal is on the trnsition team and has not been offered a cabinet position. It follows from your argument that you think the anti-Sonal agitators want to prevent her being offered a cabinet post. They may not need to do that, in ny case, but this is a clear instance of one person organizing a melodrama to scuttle nother person’s advancement.
This is one jumbled metaphor. Holding a position on the transition team is hardly equivalent to sitting on the board of a firm. Since when do shareholders (stakeholders?) elect board members?
Why don’t you try using online fora for vetting everyone leading the Auto Workers instead?
229 · Amrita
The point is not whether or not she should be there. The point is that just because she / he is (you fill in the blank) doesn’t mean we should “get out of the way.”
I would love for a desi to become the president. But I’m not going to elect ( you fill in the blank) just because. I’m definitely not going to get out of his / her way when he /she makes the attempt. I definitely wouldn’t elect he / she just because he / she is desi.
You can’t just expect desis to get to the top and not get questioned, probed, accused, and address those who confront them and I am not talking about Sepia Mutiny being that force. I’m talking about from other sources including citizens.
You’re not a crab in the bucket if you want the people (especially those that look like you) in government to be clear of anything false, to be honest, to answer public concerns (from whichever groups that may ask), to play on the same field as all other public officials / office holders( minus the corruption).
If you look at one of my previous post I asked if anyone here has actually talked to Sonal Shah and how she approaches it. Is she arrogantly dismissive or is she understanding of the “misunderstanding” (from her point of view) and willing to work to clear it up?
When I said get in the way I meant of anyone in public office / being paid by tax dollars.
And whomever thinks energy policies don’t have anything to do with foreign policy and security is asleep.
For anyone that wants to learn more about Hindu nationalism: There are many texts on Hindu nationalism and the Sangh Parivar– if you put in “Hindu nationalism” in Amazon there are some excellent sources on the Sangh’s history and politics (and can put any titles into Worldcat.org to get them from a local library). And there are also reports on the Sangh’s violence in Gujarat at onlinevolunteers.org, and Sabrang Communications publishes a magazine, Communalism Combat.
They will contribute to responding to some of the RSS/VHP/BJP history questions in more depth, to looking at how the Sangh has changed over time, and to disaggregating the different activities and roles that the upper-caste, upper-class members take on in the “Hindu rashtra”, in contrast to Dalit, lower caste, and Adivasi members, which may help to understand how the Sangh supporters in the US and UK operate in relation to the Sangh in India.
What–Jamaat-Ud Dawa is incorporated and doing business somewhere in these United States?
Kabir Altaf Here is an interview with the Jamat Ul Dawa ameer In his own words, “God has ordained every Muslim to fight until His rule is established,”.”We have no option but to follow God’s order.” This is the VHP’s official website. As you can clearly see, world domination is not one of their objectives.For all their faults, they cannot be compared to the JUD by any stretch of imagination. Any attempts to equalise the two are intellectually dishonest
you can advance all you want but not on my tax dollar if you don’t pass the test. otherwise lets just endorse any desi to public positions.
no complaints, no questions, no barriers to their achievement. there path should be paved with fresh black top every week so that they have it better than anyone to the top ?
lets not muttle anyone’s advancement. make sure you don’t vote either because the person you didn’t vote for you are working against their advancement.
advancement in public life includes working on your image and addressing the PUBLICs concerns.
This has nothing to do with crabs in a bucket. If she clears everything it will be great maybe she will open the doors for even more desis and under represented citizens.
and i thought that would make y’allz happy after this report 🙂
that’s my attempt to undignify this thread; anyway, i think it’s all out of my system now. good to hang out with you guys again. happy week to all those who want one.
So Raj, please feel free not to campaign for Piyush, but what you are saying here is that one can’t just expect desis to get to the top and not get questioned, probed and accused of perfidy and anti-Christian violence by other desis, citizens or not, who demand a confrontation with them.
242 · Lupus Solitarius said
that interview mentions a kid’s magazine called ‘nanhe mujahid.’ that is sickening and saddenning.
While the popular thing around here to do is to like that Bobby Jindal is desi but not like his politics, I actually like SOME of the things that he has done. So I haven’t made up my mind on Jindal yet. Let’s see where he goes and what he does.
Obama has answered to those that confront him. He’s done it maybe more so than any non biracial white politician ever has done. Why can’t any desi in a public position do the same? If you want to make it an equal opportunity society. It has to be equal opportunity.
You should also ask Rahm Emmanuel to resign and leave. You have about the same right to do that as you have to ask Sonal. Hope you are making as much noise on some Israeli board.
I am touched by the spirited defence here of Hinduism, and the right of Hindus to organize politically (which is what the Sangh Parivar is), and the right of Hindus to belong to such an organization even if it has some extremist fringes. After all, no one considers the Congress fascist, even though its extremists have killed more Sikhs than the VHP’s extremists have killed Muslims. Neither is the CPM considered fascist, even though its extremists have killed hundreds of RSS people in Kerala. Same with Akali Dal, the Dravida parties, the Muslim League and Kerala Congress (an Xtian outfit). Every community and ideology has a political outfit in India to further their interests, so Hindus should have one too. And every outfit has extremists. If others can belong to their parties despite their extremists, Hindus can as well.
However, I think such debate is pointless. It is better to spent your time doing all or some of the following:
1) Read literature in one Indian language, and learn to write in it
2) Learn/support one Indian classical/folk art form
3) Read Indian philosophy, particularly the scholastic tradition (S. Radhakrishnan, Bimal Krishna Matilal, Jitendra Mohanty etc.)
4) Learn to cook your regional Indian dishes
5) Learn more about home/herbal/folk remedies from elders in the family, and try them
6) Learn about farming and other green practices in a rural community. I particularly recommend this initiative.
7) Support your local temple festival
The best way to support a culture is to live it. Political organization is a subsidiary activity. It is needed in a democratic setup, but democratic setup is just the current scheme of things. The way things are going, it may not be around for long.
Hinduism has survived over millenia not by fighting wars or through organizations, but by one central value — stoicism.
Yes I’d also have an issue with a U.S. public official supporting or accused of supporting Hezbollah or Hamas even though both have a wing that is purely political and have political parties in some countries. These are the same countries in which they are seen as defense forces by the people living there.
I think the survey did not take into account VHP / RSS folks. remember those uncivilized idolators worship the linga. 🙂