At the same time that one report mentions Sonal as a possible cabinet choice, Sonal seems to be under pressure as a member of the transition team as a couple of mainstream media outlets started to write about her.
I last posted about Sonal when she issued her statement, almost a month ago. In case, you’ve forgotten, here are the key things she said:
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“my personal politics have nothing in common with the views espoused by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), or any such organization”
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“I’ve always condemned any politics of division, of ethnic or religious hatred, of violence and intimidation as a political tool”
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“factually inaccurate internet rumors have attempted to link me to Hindu Nationalist groups through a variety of tenuous connections: Relief work I’m proud to have helped coordinate following the Gujarati earthquake of 2001 … “
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“I do not subscribe to the views of such Hindu nationalist groups, and never have”
Since then, however, there have been four new developments (listed chronologically) in the continuing saga of Sonal Shah:
<
p>1 The general secretary of VHP-America said Sonal was a member of the governing council of the VHPA for three years. Her critics followed up with a link to the “VHP Governing Council & Chapter Presidents/Coordinators List” in 1998, hosted on Hindunet.org, which showed Sonal as a member of that group, and listed her US Treasury department email as a contact.
Sonal’s earlier statement stated that she was not a member of any Sangh organization in India and had implied that she had never been a member of the VHP-A, but had simply coordinated relief efforts after the earthquake. There was no response by her supporters, some of whom had argued outright that she was not a member of the VHPA, to this news.
2 The transition team announced that Sonal’s work is on the Technology, Innovation and Government Reform panel.
When I found out that Sonal would be working on tech issues, not foreign policy or personnel issues, I thought this would quiet criticism since it made her past affiliations less relevant. However, as with point #1, there was little acknowledgement of this from the other side.
<
p>
3
Former senator Rick Santorum wrote an editorial calling Shah “the elephant in the room” where he said:
Shah should condemn the VHP and its actions soon. If she doesn’t, keeping her on – or, more ominously, giving her a post in the new administration – would send the message that the president-elect does not think the VHP is a radical organization. And this is a president-elect who is trying to “change” the image of the United States in the Islamic world with a foreign policy more sensitive to Muslim concerns. [link]
Santorum is generally known for his extreme and intolerant views, so if matters had stopped there, I think she could have ignored the piece without much political cost. The problem is that Santorum’s remarks took the issue out of the desi context where it could be contained, and brought them to a wider audience.
4
A blogger at the National Journal picked up the story with a post titled “Shah Pick Stirs Widespread Controversy.”
The National Journal is a center-left publication, owned by the Atlantic, whose core audience is DC insiders. Given that context, a story which framed Shah as attracting criticism from the left and the right, and which stated that “the controversy could put to rest any speculation that Shah might be shortlisted for a top Cabinet job” must have been most unwelcome.
Note that neither Santorum nor the National Journal have picked up on the fact that she was a member of the VHPA governing council.This leaves Shah room to take the initiative, it also means that things could get more awkward for her.
Recently, Sonal sent out an email which said she was under pressure as a result of this publicity. This email has now been removed from the blog post where I read it earlier, and it seems that Sonal’s friends and allies are rallying to her side, encouraging her to stay on.
148 · Rahul(witha)D said
huma abedin is definitely hotter, but my stand is anything if not consistent. unlike ponniyin selvan who claims to be an ahimsa enthusiast but pays membership dues to the VHP. so glance at your own ranks first. since hmf has disappeared, i’m keeping it real as a matter of public service.
149 · Ponniyin Selvan said
Funding violence is justified though.
that is what she said too.
138 · gbs said
along with investment
154 · Raj said
yep. once the civil fabric is ripped apart with the kind of limited conflicts in various parts of the country (like naxalite/northeast etc.) becoming far more pervasive and ingrained and large sections of the populace alienated, normal function will be close to impossible.
gbs…
I’m a Republican, there are other people who associate themselves with my party who are: 1. Evangelists who believe that as a Hindu I’m a sinner 2. Supremacists who believe that as a non-white, I dont deserve the same rights as them 3. Nationalists who believe that I shouldn’t have immigrated here in the first place
But I’m a Republican because I believe that the party is the best protector of MY interests, my values and my culture.
Do you honestly believe that everyone who associates themselves with the VHP or BJP is a racist? That they want to have some Bajrang Dal goons drag Muslim women in the streets? You can sit here thousands of miles away and paint people by the same brush but just from your comments I can tell you that you know nothing of the ground realities in India.
Lets do some simple math…India is a poor country, there are 9 times Hindus as there are Muslims…So while the percentage of poor Muslims maybe larger, their numbers aren’t. If you can make sociological cases for why Muslims are picking up arms, then you can make a much better case for why Hindus are indulging in such rhetoric. However, a rigorous understanding of these dynamics is so far beyond the scope of this post. I don’t mean to point out the moral and intellectual paucity of the points you are
using to bait Ponniyin Selvantrying to make, but …give it a break…156 · Rahul(witha)D said
thanks for your fair and balanced summary.
i think i have made it very clear that i have no sympathy for these excuses either.
you didn’t, so it’s all good.
156 · Rahul(witha)D said
how much earth of others you are willing to scorch in the excuse of advancing YOUR own interests and culture says a lot about the quality of the values you hold dear.
151 · portmanteau said
Im a
Hindu-FascistVHP member too now, because I chose to tread a middle ground?156 · Rahul(witha)D said
if you want to do so, fine. but don’t pretend to be a moderate or delude yourself into thinking you are one while doing it, garv se kaho hum extremist hain!
i didn’t spin these results, BJP itself claimed that the results were going to be a public verdict wth respect to terrorism.
I read the three links. The first one is from a “Hindu” reporter who claims that Rajnath Singh virtually admitted the failure. If some one uses terms like “virtual admission”, it implies a spin. 🙂
The second link is just a boast talk from any politician. Probably the Congress would have said the same thing. We’ll do well in six state elections.
The third link talks about “terrorism” an issue to be used for the impending general elections, which I think is the true case. Congress can feel free to ignore the issue.
Actually these results are better than I expected for the BJP. I expected the BJP to lose MP, Rajasthan and Chattisgarh and gain Delhi. I was wrong.
i hope you can at least justify funding communalism and violence from outside india to yourself. togadia thanks you for your sponsoring a twinkling trident.
You are welcome.
The issue here is that Sonal was in the VHPA leadership. Given that the VHPA was formed to carry out the VHP’s mission in America, and openly shares the same aims, isn’t this reasonable grounds upon which to ask questions about Sonal Shah’s beliefs?
People keep confusing very different things. We’re not talking about Average Hindus, or Average VHP members, we’re talking about a member of the VHPA leadership.
I don’t think that should disqualify her, but I do think it raises important questions. If you want to be even handed, think of how people would feel about a candidate for government office who was a member of the American Friends of the Likud or the American Friends of the Tamil Tigers or the IRA-America? Their membership would be a source of concern, no?
no please, it is very clear that they are at the very least sympathizers of extremists. no one called them racist. also: do not ignore the difference between vhp and the republican party. the republican party fights elections and can be voted out by those who voted for it earlier. the VHP is not accountable to anybody, even those who fund it, unless it is prosectured in the court (and we know how the good the indian judicial system is with that). bajrang dal and durga vahini have a record of extra-legal activties: you know that as well as i do.
bottomline: condemning hindu extremism != supporting islamic extremism/terrorism: you should know that.
the republican party and vhp analogy is so broken that it is laughable.
remember sociological explanation is NOT a get out of jail card for anyone, hindu or muslim. it does not absolve any criminal party or any terrorist perp. it’s a mitigating factor, maybe.
ah. that totally clarifies why you support the vhp/rss/bjp axis and people of the ilk of advani/thackeray/modi.
That’s right.
Rob, Ponniyin, A quick word on mean pit bulls and talking tough. Sena goons were nowhere to be seen when Mumbai was taken over by terrorists. Guess they were too busy beating up some poor editor of a marathi daily? Advani talks tough on terrorism. He was going to “get†Dawood. Some people I know has comical Mossad fantasies about that one. BJP came and went, Dawood is still at large.
Baqwaas coming from dogma-addled fools is morally reprehensible and all, but a very weak excuse to join saffron nation. Murderers from group a, not much better than murderers from group b.
Alright dude, I think your wannabe-glib rhetoric is pretty aggravating but its early in the morning and I need to have a productive day so I’ll make this short…
Your basic point was this…Anyone who associates themselves with the VHP, BJP and RHS is a racist…I tried pointing out that when there is a singular mouthpiece you try to make the most of it and steer an organization towards your values.
Im not a libertarian, when I meant “my interests” I meant that of my unit, my community, my friends, my country…but thankfully, you affirmed my evaluation of you by taking a very limited view of what I said.
Learn to understand other people before you deliver your opinion of what they should do…And until you demonstrate that basic capability, you will just be the equivalent of exactly what you are posturing to be are preaching against…
Cu è surdu, orbu e taci, campa cent’anni ‘mpaci
hashad comical Mossad fantasies about that one162 · Memory said
I’m sorry how is it not a valid concern then for another Individual whose mother is the President (Leader) of a Religious University in Saudi Arabia…
There has to be a rationalization for self-hatred, we can’t always go “look-a-here Herschel.” The logic in this thread is that it is politically incorrect to be associated with a Hindu organization and that is just baffling.
163 · portmanteau said
further, the extremist agenda of the vhp as well as its violent actions have continuously been encouraged, endorsed and supported by the vhp leadership and the sangh parivar from the top down.
162 · Memory said
yes. i think that being an average vhp-a member (or a hindu) in the us is no reason at all for people to get upset at her (although i do not think the analogue is true for vhp in india, but that’s not relevant to sonal shah’s choices to be part of the leadership team of vhp-a, as well as direct her involvement in relief in gujarat through vhp-a).
165 · Amol said
I think goons is too mild of a word for these misguided idiots but hey at least they weren’t stupid enough to go up against the AK 47s with their Lathis…or would you have preferred they would have?
168 · RahulD said
Check out Rahm Emmanuel.
165 · Amol said
now come on. raj thackeray was kind enough to permit commandos from all over india, including bihar and up, into aamchi mumbai. if this is not generosity, i don’t know what is.
i am not interested in defending my credentials against your ad hominem attacks. if you are capable of arguing by any ground other than assertion or ad hominem, i’d be interested in hearing it.
my argument against sonal shah is based on her choices as an adult. sat anal 101.
Clinton, Abedin, Shah, Emmanuel…
Obama is putting together a diverse team.
Maybe he’ll chill out with Rumsfeld and Cheney on the weekends although I wouldn’t recommend any hunting trips.
162 · Memory said
That thought process was kinda broken I admit, I was in the process of getting ready…and my girlfriend called to find out the nutritional information of something at Sonic and lost my chain of thought…
What I was trying to say was that Individuals tend to gravitate towards ideas that reflect their worldview…and these days because of information flow, and the methods of information flow, the prevalance of death and just general instability the individuals who are affected by salient events are moving towards what they consider stable/large organizations (holy run-on sentence batman!) …the characeristics of individuals who gravitate towards an ideological umbrella can sometimes end up being widely divergent…
If that doesn’t make sense, I will explain better later…
165 · Amol said
speaking of analogies, that crazy talk does sound eerily familiar 🙂
Has anyone here had the opportunity to talk with Sonal Shah? Is she dismissive or open to explain? Does she see the conflict or think there is no problem and not see that others may have a problem or at least from her point of view a misunderstanding? Does she act like “The Decider” or is her stance defensive?
No, but I’d like them to stop picking on defenseless people. Bullies = cowards in large numbers.
174 · RahulD said
“Politics makes strange bedfellows”
172 · gbs said
The minimum requirement for dialectic is the existence of an open mind…or the demonstration of the capability to process disonant information…just because you said that you would be interested to hear it does not make me believe that it is worth my time to explain it to someone who has made about 30 posts constanly espousing and regurgitating a very limited point of view whilst disparaging the other side…
No thanks, Id rather take a flying fck on a rolling donut…
Have a good day…
179 · RahulD said
hmm… cutting and running because of the lack of an argument, methinks. enjoy your day too.
47 · Camille said
Sonal’s problem – no crime – is simple being a Hindu. That’s all. Anything to do with Hinduism in the US or anywhere else in the world is fair game for the PC/loony-left crowd. The message is very clear. Not a word shall be spoken in favour or in defence of Hindus and Hinduism. Hindus are expendable. The other day Shah Rukh Khan accepted an award from the Malaysian government. Is anyone questioning his secular credentials for that? The Malayasian govenment has recently banned the Hindu Rights and Action Forum and thrown its leaders into jail for protesting the destruction of Hindu Kovils in Malaysia. Hypocrisy.
what…? they’re testing that on the SAT? no wonder people are flocking to the moral guardians.
ps: y’all BJP supporters have a beacon of hope. bharat’s pre-eminent bahu smriti irani is on TV, and she is bloody eloquent. i predict that she will be BJP president one day. she does regressive so much better than sushma swaraj.
181 · jyotsana said
(((((Anything to do with Islam in the US or anywhere else in the world is fair game for the neo-con, conservative, anything but liberal even if it deletes the constitution from the people’s heads… crowd.
But as someone else pointed out there are also many “conservatives”(what are they conserving?) (Ron Paul – is the only one left in Republican Party) in the U.S. that are anti-Hindu as well.
Unless Shah Rukh Khan is going to be running for office anywhere anytime soon, I’m not sure why he matters.
Extremists are keeping the cycle going. The only way to break it is to not be an extremist. There are extremists of every flavor and each has done its part.)))
Don’t be baffled. The truth of the matter is that it is politically correct to bash hindus (just as it is politically correct to bash xtians, although the consequences are less pernicious in their case). Two thirds of the world’s population is brought up to believe that idol worship is evil. On top of that hindus have the so-called caste system. No matter how much people claim to respect all religions, they cannot get past these two features of so-called hinduism. Unless hinduism resembles them in these features it can get no respect. These things are deeply internalized and often not deliberate. This makes it legit to constantly heap all kinds of dung on hindus. SM is no different – as was evidenced by the uproar at the use of the word Islamofascist, while the term Hindu fascist has used liberally on this blog. I don’t think this can be solved through reasoning because reason, facts and figures support the fact that in terms of the amount of evil perpetrated in the world, Christianty and Islam are in competition for the crown. The sort of thing that vhp and rss are doing is par for the course for both of these religions. Spreading the faith it is called. When hindus attempt such a thing it is fascism.
i don’t know how you discerned that from the tenor of the posts here. plenty of organizations other than vhp do beneficial things for hindus without ever abetting a bunch of teenage thugs. usually, i am wowed by your analysis but i can’t understand this bludgeon of a post. i do hold my bureaucrats and political leadership to a higher moral standard than film stars who have no bearing on my life.
181 · jyotsana said
i think the malaysian govts sordid human rights record and religious discrimination has not gotten enough airplay primarily due to class reasons. it should and shah rukh khan should have ideally not legitimized the award. this (dated) article from b. raman, no shrinking muslim apologist, makes the class point among other things.
p.s: this hindu victimization saga is getting old. can’t hindu and muslim self pitiers get together on a single board and whine to each other about how misunderstood they are?
184 · Divya said
i am no sympathizer of evangelical xtianity, but unless you have evidence that the dominant strains of xtian missionary work involve burning temples and villages and threats of retribution, i don’t think the labels are comparable.
my previous comment was specifically in the context of india (evangelical xtians do a lot of harm in africa, especially in aids prevention and relief). as for the caste system, are you indicating that it is either a non-issue in india, or that it has desirable properties in modern india?
183 · Raj said
well said. attempting to try and see the world from the other person’s shoes instead of blinkered (and myopic) delusions/perceptions of self-interest will do the world a whole load of good. and this is not huggie-touchy-feely pap that excludes strong self defense and protection from extremists.
Divya: #184
Nice comment. I completely agree with you.
Yeah, if you are fighting a few twenty year olds who are using automatic weapons and mobile explosive launchers with rifles that look like what the Indian army is using in Indiana Jones part 2 you have somewhat of a defense problem. When calling your troops in takes 10-12 hours to travel from the capital, you have a defense problem.
India has a navy, does it have a coast guard? Does it have port security? Is all the money alloted for these things going to corrupt politicians(retorical)?
When the only way to get things done is by being divisive amongst your own people you aren’t really getting things done.
i’m glad you are swimming against the tide, especially in these lord/bhagwan-forsaken times our land is now ruled by the secret muslim barack HUSSAIN obama.
the truth is that in the real world of america it is much easier to criticize muslims, but the coastal republicans and overseas hindutvavadis* have a persecution complex, so it’s not surprising that they get bitter, and cling to the narrative of purported pacificism against the terrorists, the war on christmas, and lou dobbs.
*i’m not calling you a coastal republican or overseas hindutva-vasi divya. just general commentary.
156 · Rahul(witha)D said
I think it was Hannah Arendt who said that you can be at max two of the following three: decent; intelligent; nazi. Feel free to substitute Republican 1994-2008 or VHP member there and draw your own conclusons based on introspection 😉
91 · Amrita said
So basically, you just disagree with the idea of democracy? of people in power or moving up the ranks of power being asked questions? being asked to answer those questions? being called out when they lie about them? being denied access to more power until they account to people? i’m perfectly happy for her to either get out of mainstream politics or to provide a more compelling and detailed explanation– it’s not going to go to jail for her ties to vhp-a like she likely would if she were palestinian or lebanese shi’a and doing similar stuff with hamas or hezbollah – she hasn’t even taken a stand against THOSE types of activities – it all seems very self-serving, and i’m not getting out of the way until i am assured that i am wrong.
and whether she likes it or not, she quite clearly is in a position of higher power in the 2nd generation south asian community in the united states, and has benefited from that status through the indo-american change award indicorps etc. you can see from the number of supporters she has that she and her work have touched eople’s hopes about her, letting vhp release information about her, not addressing it directly, allowing it to get the point where santorum is commenting?
vijay prashad was not the first to raise these issues about her (and many other organizations) nor will he be the last…guarantee you, as long as she seeks to be a public official in what some of us perhaps naively still believe has elements of democracy.
unlike ponniyin selvan who claims to be an ahimsa enthusiast but pays membership dues to the VHP.
he..he.. I don’t pay membership dues to VHP. I donate to IDRF. I’m impressed by their Ekal vidyalayas. where one volunteer goes to remote places to educate kids, more like the missionaries. It’s all good stuff.
How big of a difference is there between the RSS and VHP? I personally know some very decent old people who were members of RSS in India in their youth.
187 · gbs said
This is why I said that you had idea of the ground realities or history of India…try expanding your knowledge base before you make any sort of points until then I won’t need to point out the obvious gaps in your knowledge…
I’m hardly a Hindu-fascist, its almost laughable that you have been constantly trying to pigeon-hole me…I go to an Croatian Orthodox or a Chinese Catholic church for no reason other than the fact that it is spiritually expedient to get ready and only traverse about a block or so in one direction or another from my house on hungover sunday mornings.
The fallacy in your logic (or the lack of it) is that you are criticizing something without actually putting for a point of view of your own. Your stance is that individuals who ascribe affinity to Hindu (substitute X ideology) organizations for ANY moral/spiritual/political reasons are the same as any individual who was rampaging down the streets of Godhra torching houses. I’m unable topresent a counterpoint basically because I cannot (in my admittedly limited mental capacity) find what facts or philosophy I’m supposed to be juxtaposing my arguments against!
Dr. Am…I would’ve figured you to be the last person to Goodwin a thread…But thank you for Hannah Arendt; as usual, between you and Google – I learned something new. You and Razib somehow validate overcoming my reluctance to indulge in comments, curse you!
197 · RahulD said
wow, defensive much? i’ve never tried to pigeonhole you, but these tedious meta discussions of why you cannot defend your point of view are not my cup of tea, so fk on a flying donut or whatever your idea of a good day is.
186 · gbs said
GBS,
That’s a perfect 2/3/4/5-step dance in play – played to perfection. First claim Hindus are evil, then claim Hindus who defend or speak up are evil, next claim that Hindus aren’t victims ever, anyhwere – and then when confronted with evidence, claim victims are self-pitying whiners.
In Northeastern India that’s what happens.
And that is ignoring all the scurrilious pamphlets and tracts that are distributed outside kovils and mandirs in S.India. It took concerted action to keep soul-harvesters from preying on hte public in the queues at the Balaji Mandir in Tirupati. In Karnataka too the notorious New Life Mission attracted complaints for distributing scurrilious tracts two years ago. Currently the ruling party in Tamil Nadu is financing a movie that is going to be trotting out evangelical Xtian mythology about Tiruvalluvar. That’s like mainstraming the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” which BTW is an eternally popular TV show theme in some parts of the world.
LGF, Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, and Freerepublic aren’t our source of information on Huma Abedin right? And isn’t it funny even here on SM there has never been a single post about CAIR?
184 · Divya said
What the hell is this horseshit? in case you haven’t noticed, the most populous country in the world is majority hindu (by far) and has received all kinds of plaudits in the western press. i grew up in the united state in the time of dotbusters and random kids i had never met saying “fill ‘er up” on the way there and nearly getting in a bar fight because someone called me a dotbuster. Now i live in london where the level of idiocy (not necessarily malevolence) i see on a daily/weekly basis puts the u.s. to shame.
and yet, i still think it’s a problem if a bunch of people go out and kill a bunch of christians (who were/are dalits), who rape women in the name of religion, and who hatineer state sponsored massacres of muslims and women and babies, denial of justice to the victims for year, etc. You know wshy? because i’m not f”£king psycho. There’s a level of decency that we should expect from other people – this a basic norm, not “political correctness.” you can say what you want to, but if you tacitly support’s rderers or justify their ideology – the same way that bush does for u.s. imperialism and sarah palin does for christian fundamentalist / racism / redbaiting and modi does for hindu fundamentalism and osama bin laden ot Adem Gadahn do for whatever version of salafi nihilism he’s invested in, you’re a dipshit. so get over yourselfa, wake up, look at some pictures of what actually happened at godhra or in orissa or elsewhere – and if you want to extend it to the massacres of sikhs in 1984 or to nandigram or other things, then do so. but for christ’s sake, stop justifying murder and violence and fascism in the name of what was aptly described below as a persecution complex. no one is out to get you except yourself.