India is sending an unmanned space-ship to the moon, with take-off possibly as soon as Wednesday morning, Indian time [UPDATE: Take-off was successful!]:
The launch of Chandrayaan-1, as the vehicle is called (it means, roughly translated, “Moon Craft-1â€) comes about a year after China’s first moon mission. The Indian mission is scheduled to last for two years, prepare a three-dimensional atlas of the moon and prospect its surface for natural resources, including uranium, a coveted fuel for nuclear power plants, according to the Indian Space Research Organization, or I.S.R.O. Allusions to an Asian space race could not be contained, even as Manmohan Singh, the Indian prime minister, was due for a visit to China later in the week. (link)
Most of the Times article on the event focuses on the “Asian space race,” between India and China. Some more coverage in the Indian newspapers here, here, and especially here. The ExpressIndia story has the most technical information about the trip I’ve seen:
Earlier in the day, Prof J N Goswami, director of the Physical Research Laboratory (PRL), Ahmedabad, who is also the principal scientist for the Chandrayaan-1 mission, spoke about the possibility of finding helium-3 on the lunar surface. “Although generating power through nuclear fusion of helium-3 is a distant dream, but the possibilities are immense,†he said. The samples brought to Earth by the Apollo mission have indicated that Iron titanium oxide traps helium-3 molecules on the lunar surface, he said.
Goswami said he-3 content is very low. For every 100,000 helium-4 molecules, there is only one helium-3 molecule on the lunar surface. Besides, the scientific community is yet to simulate the conditions necessary for nuclear fusion. But, if Chandrayaan-1 is able to locate probable areas for finding helium-3, that in itself will be a very big achievement. It will help eliminate the two stages of producing deuterium from hydrogen and then producing helium-3 from deuterium, he added. (link)
Though I can hardly claim to be an expert on the science, from what I’ve been reading I’m skeptical at the outset about the search for uranium or helium-3 on the moon, mainly because I’m not sure what they would do with these materials even if they were to find some — build a lab? Bring it back? (Can anyone find more detailed accounts regarding the specific scientific goals for this mission? What exactly is going in Chandrayaan-1’s various payloads?)
One could argue — and I’m sure some will — that it’s hard to justify spending lots of money on a mission to the moon, when India obviously has lots of other issues to contend with right now.
I can see the objections, but I still think it’s pretty cool. Events like this can have huge symbolic significance, and I hope the launch tomorrow goes well. [UPDATE: It did. The rocket is supposed to reach the moon in fifteen days.]
All Government sponsored activity, anywhere, delivers nothing but symbolic significance. There’s no material benefit to the taxpayer. It’s legalized swindle.
M. Nam
MoorNam says, typing on his computer and sending out packets on the intertubes.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that the name of the rocket is awesome. The Chandrayaan! That is a pretty great name.
The wikipedia article has some more details about the mission goals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan
a better headline would have been – india unleashes the python
“One could argue — and I’m sure some will — that it’s hard to justify spending lots of money on a mission to the moon, when India obviously has lots of other issues to contend with right now.”
That’s a valid point. There’s people who need food and land that needs water. Though, if you notice they are carrying cargo for NASA. If this goes well India would be a player in the space industry and can carry cargoes for other nations as well– in return of money or other technological gifts. A well established industry like this can also create a good number of jobs and boost up education.
I think it’s a great step. And I hope they don’t screw up all the required things they have to do the days after.
a better headline would have been – india unleashes the python
I was toying with various “moon” related Hindi songs for titles to the post (chand, chandni, etc.), but couldn’t think of anything good. Got any for me?
The best I could come up with was the Adnan Sami song:
“Bheegi Bheegi Raaton Mein” –> “Bheegi Bheegi Rocket Mein” –>
“Biggie Biggie Rocket Mein”
But I think only about 5 readers would have any idea what I was talking about.
they will use it to inflate the tires. Reduces wear and tear and makes the ox fly through the air over da moo-ooon.
just kidding. i have a friend who told me that a legitimate trickle down from one of the space research organizations was an ozonization technology that made purified water available to many. i dont know how sustainable it was – but the will is there. So good going. we’z proud of ye.
i address aren’t-there-better-things-to-spend-money-on argument here. i think it is a more powerful argument for such a poor country like india, but that being said don’t the rich in india still flaunt their wealth? so much “waste,” at least this appeals to something else besides personal vanity (that is, public vanity).
Why are this mission and the other issues India is facing mutually exclusive? We should give credit where it is due without being overly critical.
Strangely enough, Amardeep, this gora gets it. Because it is one of my favorite songs!
though, if india doesn’t face up to its bottom line problems with mass malnutrition an illiteracy this “race” with china is over before it began. you can’t compete indefinitely when you have fewer hands on deck when it comes to something this complex. perhaps abject failure at the space race might reinforce the need for basic education and literacy.
(Innocently) Large phallic objects have symbolic significance?
If everyone agreed to stop anything that seemed “hard to justify” at the outset, it seems to me that the world in its entirety would still be living in the middle ages.
oh Adnan!! I’ve become a fan once UB introduced me to lift kara dey . I think that would be apt here, no? ‘thodi see tu lift kara dey. dunia bhar kee sair kara dey’.
I was reading up on it. the commercial arm of ISRO makes close to $200mill and a successful launch will only boost its profile as a low-cost alternative to Ariane. This is a pretty sound R&D investment imo. with the limited market competition the ROI would be quick.
Why are this mission and the other issues India is facing mutually exclusive? We should give credit where it is due without being overly critical.
I don’t know. Is this necessary in a country that needs to invest so much more on children’s health and primary education? Couldn’t/Shouldn’t the money go toward those massive issues?
I felt the same way about China and it’s Olympics; I didn’t find much to praise China about that. India, with the second largest population in the world has the highest number of malnourished children but I believe China is next right after India for 2nd largest population of malnourished children (someone correct me if I’m wrong). I didn’t think it was worth a country that has the poverty issues as China to put so much money on it’s elite athletes.
I guess a mission to the moon, is different than spending money on athletes. But I still think that the money should go toward the massive problems India has meeting the basic necessities that are not met for millions of people.
How do you know there is money not being spent on other issues? Like I said they are not mutually exclusive and if you recall the govt just provided INR $25,000 crore as the first installment under the farm loan waiver scheme. Work is being done and one doesn’t have to stop because of the other.
I meant INR not $25,000 crore
What about “chalo diladaar chalo, chaa.Nd ke paar chalo”?
ISRO chairman on the common criticism of the mission:
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081027&fname=ISRO&sid=2
theres a good newsweek article out which describes some of what the indian space program has given back to india (as described by the ISRO director above):
http://www.newsweek.com/id/164599
highlights:
I doubt this mission’s sole purpose is to visit the moon. I am sure onboard are several technologies that are actually part of the missile program. I once worked for a researcher connected to India’s rocket program. His comment was – “no, we don’t spend all this money on propulsion technology to put satellites up that look at crops and clouds”.
I dont understand space. Motherfuc#ers walked on the moon like 100 years ago and it seems like there has been a steady decline in space awesomeness since then. Now they want us to get our panties in a bunch when they announce things like “NASA to launch mission to see if comfortable blankets on earth are just as comfortable in space”. It’s the steady stream of lameness from NASA that makes me think that space walk was BS.
Is this necessary in a country that needs to invest so much more on children’s health and primary education? Couldn’t/Shouldn’t the money go toward those massive issues?
Do you have to enroll Abhijit in football camp? Desis don’t do well in football, leave it for the goraas and kaalas. We have Abhijit’s college expenses to worry about. You should put the money into his college fund.
brown #20:
Nobody is contesting that going into space is a good thing. It has its mayriad benefits, but they all come at a cost. It’s common knowledge that Governments everywhere waste 90% of the money spent on anything.
Is there a study comparing how much was spent vs the amount gained by the increase in catch? Moreover, should 99% of the population, who are not fishermen, subsidize the fishing industry at the cost of everyone? What’s the vegetarian getting out of this?
Did the Foundation pay for the cost of the launch? If so, I don’t have any problem with it.
M. Nam
The Indian space program was started with a remote sensing focus, and it is still one of its largest applications, and it directly benefits the rural poor. There are whispers that the remote sensing tech also helps in controlling infiltration in Kashmir.
The missile development angle, the satellite launch angle and the space race angle came later. The first two also directly benefit lay people — the missile angle helps contain Pakistan and China, the satellite launch business earns valuable foreign exchange, which buys oil. The space race angle is expected to generate new technologies, as in the case of NASA.
There are also numerous “ecosystem effects” of the space program, including the rise of Bangalore as a tech center, work on solar panels, the fledgling aerospace ambitions etc.
The space program is one of the best investments India has ever made. See where it started, and how far it has come. The first picture shows Abdul Kalam.
Now you’re talking! I agree that from a military standpoint, it’s a huge benefit (the costs are worth it).
However, this moon mission on the other hand…
M. Nam
90% of all research projects don’t lead to applications, so you could argue that university research should be stopped. 90% of people who train in classical music don’t take up a singing career, so you could argue that all that learning of singing is a waste. 90% of time spend online is on trivial pursuits like this, so you could argue….
It all depends on what you mean by waste. The money does benefit a lot of people, maybe it doesn’t provide the benefit in a high-profile and focused fashion, as in “company X invested money for R&D, developed Fancy Drug Y, saved Z million people” types. Such direct effects don’t always happen in research, even when it happens, it is a story that hides a lot of “waste”.
They should wait for Diwali next Wednesday–it will be like one big firecracker. Besides, in cultures that follow the lunar cycles, new moons are seen as a good time to launch new important ventures.
You know, I’ve never been able to make sense of that argument. “You’re starving and malnourished, therefore you don’t deserve broadband!”
It’s always struck me as old-school colonial-style condescension in a new bottle.
6 · Amardeep said
Dude! I was trying to figure out a way to work some Sinatra into the discussion when I remembered this dope song from PAKEEZAH.
18 · Vinay said
Doh! I see that Vinay beat me to it.
not true. there are several reasons why space is important. I will give you the canadian perspective even though we piggyback on nasa.
a. the canadarm technology is useful in deep sea exploration and preparing marine vessels.
b. though the space station is not in polar orbit, the field of view is wide enough to test satellite communicaitons for our northern frontiers.
c. multispectral remote sensing is an offshoot of the old hasselblad cameras that were first used on the lunar mission. without testing these new technologies in such fashion, we wont be able to ascertain the best way to monitor our northern shores and keep it out of the clutches of the dastardly americans, the nefarious danes and the ghastly russians.
d. it helps relieve tumescence. seriously. i dont know about women – but i think guys like exploration for the heck of it. it’s like wanking. only better.
Dude! I was trying to figure out a way to work some Sinatra into the discussion when I remembered this dope song from PAKEEZAH.
Oh that was great – beautiful music. Wish I could understand hindi to get all the nuances, but it’s beautiful even w/o understanding.
You know, I’ve never been able to make sense of that argument. “You’re starving and malnourished, therefore you don’t deserve broadband!”
No I’m not saying that. And I am just questioning Indian govt’s committment to this venture – I’m not saying emphatically it is wrong.
The broadband comparison I don’t think works here, b/c broadband can directly help, particularly in education and economically, a country’s people. I’m just questioning whether the long-term money and other committments that are needed for this venture is worth it, when the direct benefits to the Indian population are not clear.
Ah, that’s why men keeps exploring women.
What need do we Indians have of spacecraft? A person with mystic perfection can extend his hand and touch the moon with his finger.
25, MoorNam
One this is succesful, India will construct a missile base on the moon and wipe of all its enemies, while claiming plausible deniability (the aliens on the Moon did it).
Does anybody else think that “Chandrayaan” is a pretty gay-ass name? Wish there was a macho-er name. After all the rocket is phallic.
Cool. Maybe the Indian elite, the Pakistani elite, and the Chinese elite can all go together and we can force them to stay there until they come back with some good ideas rather than an arms race.
But no, wait, na, it might lose its way in the dark.
35 · Rohan said
Nice finger.
36 · MasterOfBlondi said
Chandralingam?
5 · Xetra said
Hello…isn’t the moon made of cheese? Clearly this is a harvesting mission. Jai Hind!
There are major plans by many nations for mining the moon. As regarding the Helium-3 there are a lot of skeptics about its utility (see below). The moon mission for most nations may be just advanced technology demonstrators, to reinvigorate the space program/industry and keep the pipeline of scientists/engineers flowing since many would be retiring in the decade or so. Here is an intersting article on India’s soaring ambitions.
Helium errors
6 · Amardeep said
Chaudvin Ka Chand ho ?
I was watching the launch with more trepidation than Sachin Tendulkar batting on 99. The launch was success!
Prime Minister Vajpayee’s government who set the wheels in motion for this ambitious goal. This is the culmination of the vision of leaders of ISRO and the BJP leadership. India needs a visionary like Vajpayee again.
Lets get a sense of proportion here. This mission’s budget is like 90 million USD.. That’s like ten times smaller than Ambani’s house in Mumbai. I fail to see why a mission that costs less than a Jumbo jet should be so criticized.
For information on the payloads, see here. http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/psexperiments.htm
The main scientific objective is to perform a chemical and geological mapping of the moon. It’s akin to the study of earth’s geology and will be important to our understanding of moon’s evolutionary history. Also, it’s not just Helium-3, but several other elements that will be analyzed for. Then, there is the experiment to see if the lunar poles have water ice. The other important aspects involve communications, data transmission, etc.
More than a publicity stunt, I think it is a much needed boost to India’s S&T.
Wasn’t implying that it was you that was making that argument. The broadband thing was some years ago on a discussion on either Reddit or Slashdot about Indian broadband, and it was one of the earliest responses on the thread. It smacked of “The third-world country’s place is in the agricultural sector”, like how it used to be said “The woman’s place is in the kitchen”.
As for spaceflight, it’s often a useful engineering and technological testbed even if no new scientific knowledge comes out of it. For instance, it’s a good demonstration of engines, guidance systems, telemetry, cameras and informatics interfaces, all of which can be used in both civilian and military applications. In that sense, Apollo’s contribution to science was not much, but it was hugely important for engineering and technology, including development of early fuel cells and food preservation technology.
In a more diffuse context, it’s often good on general principles to give money to smart people and let them play with it. When a bunch of physicists found it hard in the late 1980s and early 1990s to share information about their experimental results, one of them developed what would become the WWW to get around the difficulty. Had the WWW been designed top down by committee, it would never have taken off. Those ancillary benefits are relatively infrequent, and cannot be foretold with precision, but often have huge impact.
Researching some more I believe that Vajpayee just announced this mission in a speech on India’s 56 Independence day. It is not listed as one of his achievements in office. So apparently the Indian PM’s office is not directing this type of program in the same way JFK announced the man on the moon mission for NASA.
Congrats to the ISRO for a successful launch. It takes 15 days to reach the moon. Lets hope they learn everything they want to learn about moon.
This year has been special for 2 reasons regarding space research. One for Arizona’s spear heading mission (PHOENIX) to MARS, which I hold as my alma-mater even though I only did my masters there and ISRO’s mission to moon.
Congrats geeks, you all rock.
come on, its one of the best things india has done recently. our prowess in this field needs to be shown to the world. and it is not just a show off, its the result of tremendous research which we are proud of and will benefit us in many ways. research always pays off, maybe in the long run, but u get much more out of it than you spend. and $80 million is not that much, this guy ambani’s house is for 2 billion, so this would be money well spent, not like spending on some bogus village development project which dont even work