I don’t claim to know or like Bollywood, but I do love languages and everything connected with them, whether it’s linguistics classes (so I may learn to pronounce the “u” in “Tu” properly, in french) or articles about the politics of what we speak, how we speak it, and when and where:
It was an innocent, throwaway remark but it was enough to throw India’s most famous acting family into a head-on collision with a right-wing group in the country’s movie-making capital.
Jaya Bachchan, the wife of the country’s best known movie star, Amitabh Bachchan, found herself at the centre of a nativist fury after she asked to speak in Hindi at a press conference in Mumbai, rather than Marathi, the local language. She said because the family was from northern India, it was easier for her to speak Hindi. [linkage]
Ouch. Ready the effigies!
A harmless enough remark perhaps. But her words were seized on by right-wing activists who demanded a boycott of all films by the Bachchan family – Abhishek Bachchan is Amitabh’s son and Aishwarya Rai is his daughter-in-law – and who began tearing down posters featuring the family and damaging a cinema showing one of their films. Such was the concern that the premiere of Mr Bachchan’s latest movie, The Last Lear, was postponed.[linkage]
The culprits (oh, how I love that word) may have belonged to or been inspired by the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS), which splintered from Bal Thackeray’s Shiv Sena two years ago. The regionalist, right-wing MNS would prefer that Maharashtra be for Maharashtrians; predictably, they are rather protective of the Marathi language, as well. MNS insists that this isn’t the first time Bollywood’s finest family has dissed Bombay Mumbai (Mollywood?):
“She has purposely made such statements. Even when she said forgive me, she had a cunning smile, like she was taking potshots at Maharashtrians,” said the MNS party leader, Raj Thackeray.[linkage]
It’s a sign of how powerful this party is, that rather than roll their collective eyes, the Bachans responded by going in to apology mode. Big B even devoted an entire blog entry to his sorrow over the whole unfortunate affair, after passing a sleepless night. Highlights from that (I forgot he had a blog!), after the jump:
Arriving into London last night after a most satisfying trip on the Euro Star, from Paris, I am inundated with sms and text messages from the press on my mobile, on the happenings and controversies occurring in Mumbai, over remarks made by Jaya at the music release function of ‘Drona’, Abhishek’s film on release.
…I am by nature an individual that invariably, when confronted, addresses an issue by looking at the other person’s point of view first. This is my character. I was born with it and shall remain with it. I cannot change it now. Many friends and family look upon it as a malaise, which is defensive, wrong and incorrect. But, much to their dismay I have remained unchanged.
My first reaction therefore is, that in this matter, sentiments have been hurt.
I am not going into what has been said and under what circumstances. But rather that, even if one person is disturbed, then I would wish that that disturbance be addressed first. All else can come later…[BigBlog]
Well if she speaks to the HELP in Marathi…
Jaya has had her education in this State – in the Film Institute in Pune. Lived and graduated from that city. She speaks fluent Marathi. A major portion of our staff are all Maharashtrians. Jaya’s personal maids have been with us for almost 40 years and Jaya speaks to them in the house, only in Marathi.
Can we ever show disrespect to the local language? [BigBlog]
Uncle Amitabh (many of his commenters refer to him as such, as they express concern for his and Jaya-Auntie’s welfare) then goes on to painfully list the many, many ways he and his family have been involved with or contributed to their adopted home state.
Perhaps Shah Rukh Khan should do similar:
Other Indian movie stars have also fallen foul of the regionalist attacks. In its recent political magazine, the Shiv Sena attacked actor Shah Rukh Khan, who is originally from Delhi and who often talks fondly of the city. “If he loves Delhi, then why did he come to Mumbai?” it said. “These people come here, fill up their bellies and then burp in the name of their own states.” [linkage]
When Rediff asked AB about the Jaya Bachchan-MNS controversy, he had this to say:
It’s really unfortunate that this controversy started. We had no any intention of degrading any language. We have been living in this city for the past 40 years and whatever my family and me have earned is only because of this city. I am really proud of this city. Why will I degrade anything about this state and its language? We would love to live peacefully.
Now when off-the-cuff remarks are being distorted, people are protesting. Common people, who are innocent, have got nothing to do with this issue. So they should not suffer. Because of this we cancelled the premiere of The Last Lear. [rediff]
All’s well that…well, ends:
For the Bachchan clan, at least, it appears the current controversy has drawn to a close. After the Big B’s well publicised apology Mr Thackeray of the MNS said it was calling off its boycott. He said: “Amitabh Bachchan is the head of the family and he apologised yesterday, we accept that.” [linkage]
Nice. His apology was worth more than hers. That is to be expected, I guess. In other news, the majority of people whom I’ve met from Bombay are transplants from other states, as is the case here in DC or up North, in New York. Regionalism is a troubling movement; I can’t imagine a DC filled only with “natives”– I’ve only met three of those, in the past ten years.
this reminds of those ads written in english for people looking to learn english. anti-hindi sentiment aside, it’s not irrational that the signs are written in tamil and english, the two languages that would be easily readable to potential hindi students. otherwise, how would a student who has no knowledge of hindi – but most likely knows tamil and/or hindi – even know to go to such a school? even if some potential students know how to read hindi, they would constitute not only a small %, but also, given that most everybody would already know english or tamil, it would be unnecessary.
this has been a phrase that has come up time and again over the jaya bachchan incident. as far as i know, the indian constitution has not decreed a national language. yes, hindi is the official language of the union government, but not the union itself. accordingly, each state legislature has an official language that most likely varies from hindi. and hindi, while being the plurality language, is not the majority language.
umm…not just ‘a’ tamizh – you (or anybody) would be the proverbial kuve ka mendak where the only language of the conversation surrounding them is in a language that they don’t understand. unless, of course, you are a master of every language?
37 · S sode said
Seems like a pretty rude bunch of DBDs the “Tamizh” is forced to hang out with, if they persist in this exclusionary behavior.
I studied in a ‘national’ institution. There were students from almost every state in India. In our ‘fresher’ months, we were put through a grueling orientation, to bring us all to a common level and forge bonds between people from vastly different backgrounds. The medium of instruction was English, but the lingua franca on campus and in the hostels was Hindi. Not the north Indian sanskritised Hindi, but common Hindustani, and the college slang was a mash of all the different languages spoken on the campus. Every one in my batch picked up Hindi fairly quickly, and without any hang-ups. There was this guy from from Chennai, however who had massive problems from day-one. We did try to help him out but it was beyond us.He wasn’t interested enough,and went through the 5 years of training with a serious handicap, both at a social, and professional level.And this was a problem faced by people brought up in a anti-Hindi environment in every batch. The flip side was, most of us did learn the local language of the state,and quite a few people picked up different Indian languages by interacting with our colleagues. There is no shame in learning new languages and linguistic chauvinism is simply sad.
“Tamil vs Hindi vs English” fights are as futile as “vi vs emacs” holy wars.
English and vi are clearly the best.
Yay! Another conflict resolved. Next!
pingpong on September 12, 2008 07:04 PM · Direct link · “Quoteâ€Â(?) “Tamil vs Hindi vs English” fights are as futile as “vi vs emacs” holy wars.
English and vi are clearly the best.
Yay! Another conflict resolved. Next!
Pingpong, A few of my friends and I would like to disagree. Your serve.
49 · Independent said
Right. Heaven save us all from the righteous wrath of Thalapathi.
55 · Apabhransha said
Really, bringing up great Hindi litterateurs here makes no sense. It’s not like other Indian languages (especially Tamil and Marathi) lack for great writers. And that is besides the point. State governments should be allowed to use federal and state funds as their constituents please (i.e. in linguistic preservation). No people should be forced into learning non-native languages if they do not desire it. At the same time, no self-appointed guardians of culture can harass citizens who feel less comfortable in speaking local languages. Linguistic chauvinism is a terrible idea. Migrants may be socially handicapped if they do not learn the local language (but they certainly cannot be forced to learn if they do not so desire). One is also at a handicap if she is not able to use the prevailing lingua franca at her benefit.
No matter how blatantly ironic a statement, someone will take it at face value. Anyway, I see your friends and raise you this wise American who has consistently displayed tremendous can-do spirit in the face of adversity.
===========
On a different note, here’s a thread about language with “cunning” in the title, and HMF and Rahul haven’t attacked each other already about plagiarizing jokes from a James Bond movie? Something’s wrong.
58 · pingpong said
Me? I was just vundering because there is probably only one person named Rahul and thats me.
Since, a lot of people just seem to be itching to cite the superiority of their language…lemme start it off by saying, Telugu Rocks – better than yevery langvage owt there.
On another note, I remember my Chinese instructor speculating the supposed inability of certain cultures to learn certain languages and attributing it to the “respect” people display during interpersonal interactions. He theorized that cultures where the amount of “respect” displayed is “high” have a much harder time learning a different language because of their reluctance to ask questions or say “no”
It also led to an interesting segue, because I asked him if there was a more polite way of saying “No” in Chinese than just saying the word “bu”…and he goes, “well the respectful way to say ‘no’ in Chinese, is to not say it”
Er, no. I meant this Rahul and this HMF.
I second Boston Mahesh comment @35. I don’t believe in extinction of any language in the name of secularism, assimilation or globalization in any country. I would put the blame more on people who learn only one language and not make any effort to learn all languages – mother tongue, local tongue where they live and national/official tongue.
37 · S sode said
Tamil people do not hate or even dislike Hindi. They simply like Tamil. Also, the Rajnikanth is, for sure, a Marathi. So what? The Governor of Tamil Nadu is a Sardarji. The leading heroine of India is a Tulu-speaker. You must overcome your insular world.
Finally, North Indians purposely isolating out others is a commong thing. However, they try their best to be inclusive to Muslims and white out of fear, I suppose.
39 · I am a Disco Dancer said
Boston Mahesh wrote: DiscoDancer, you don’t have to have a revenge instinct against North Indians in Maharashtra. Please rise above that. i agree with everything else, however. N. Indians are hypocritical in trying their best to be as American as possible as quickly as possible (i.e. playing golf, watching football, and making fun of other Indians). However, when they are in S. India, they REFUSE to assimilate – linguistically, culturally, etc.
43 · Ponniyin Selvan said
Boston Mahesh wrote: True. The Dravidian Nation is becoming the nerve center of the world. The Northern Parts of India (i.e. Hindustan) is becoming a Muslim-wannabe nation. Only the Taliban appreciates the intellectual achievements of Hindustan.
53 · Apabhransha said
Boston Mahesh wrote: I agree that there “is no shame in learning new languages.” So on that note, why not some Hindustanis learn Telegu? There is a 300 year old community of Pashtun-Indians in Hyderabad who speak Urdu. They have great pride in NOT speaking Telegu. Delhites would trip over themselves to learn English just to say in Victorian English how S. Indians don’t speak Hindi!
Er, no. I meant this Rahul and this HMF.
I dont do that kind of stuff any more.
It’s suprising that Indias first family has to bow down even.
Pardon me for my insensitive joke in 64.
I totally recommend that both of us – North and South Indian siblings – to do some introspection on the language matter. Here are my insights, and I welcome and encourage all questions/comments.
From my perspective, South Indians – except Tamils, tend to try and learn Hindi. Tamils are not averse to it, but there’s less of a need: Andhra Pradesh has Urdu ingrained in their premier city; many Mallus work in Gulf countries with a sizable expat community; and Kannadigas are at the contact zone for Hindustan. Tamils not learning Hindi is not much different than the French not learning English.
North Indians are very arrogant towards Southies. Northies quickly adopt and assimilate into their host countries, provided that their host country is “racially superior”. Please notice how many Northies use English-sounding first names, i.e. Happy, Lucky, Bobby, Monica, Nisha, and Jolly. Why not Tyrone, Kwanza, Xiang, or Valliapan?
Also, North Indians will totally always try to be as westernized as possible and learn foreign languages like French and German (after all, their ancestors are from Germany wink wink). However, they’re much more likely to use Malayalam in India than French/German. And please don’t give me the excuse that they want to go into int’l business and communicate with French/German businesspeople. After all, Germans/French both conduct business in English! EADS – the makers of the SuperJumbo (not “Grosse Luft Plane” or “Tres Grand Aire plainez”) use English as their mode of communication – except the assembly line people.
South Indians are far more humble and culturally sensitive in other’s homeland. South Indians, from my experience, will learn Arabic in the Gulf countries and Hindi in Delhi or even Bengali in Bengal. Moreover, I know South Indians who speak some Chinese in Malaysia (and Malay). OTOH, Gujjus and other “Germanic Indians” don’t speak any Kenyan language (or Dravidian language) even after several generations of living in those lands.
N. Indians are hypocritical in their Anti-Englishness: On one hand, the first language that they’re tripping over to learn is English. Period. Why do Punjabi Hindu kids know English but not Punjabi, among other examples? But, when the Southies master this game of English-speaking, they create new rules just to hold back South Indians, probably. Also, N. Indians have had their culture conquered many times (and so have South to a lesser extent), so for payback, they want to subvert the South Indians with their language.
North Indians have adopted the same tactics as the Soviets in fragmenting the Dravidian population of South India. The Soviets encouraged the fragmentation of the many Turkic languages spoken in the former soviet republics.
N. Indians, when they live in any foreign country for a short time and provided that the host country is of “a higher race” (i.e. Middle Eastern countries, European, etc.), they will, for sure, attempt to learn that language. Since N. Indians view S. Indians as racially inferior, they will flat out refuse to learn from them. So there’s a racist element to this language issue as well. After all, the North Indians never criticized the English or the Afghanis to understand their language, because subconsciously the N. Indians felt racially inferior to these people, and that it was their ‘punishment’ to learn their language for being “racially inferior.” Proof? What is Urdu and from whom did all the loan words come from? ANS: Light skinned (1) Farsi-speakers (2) Central Asian Turks and (3) Arabs.
53 · Apabhransha said
So is a one person adequate to extrapolate to 70 million people’s interest/learning skill?
Reminds me of the close-knit colony (the kids knew each other since we were wee little ones) that I was part of in Orissa. We were the only Malayali family in the colony of 10 families. My father has taught writing Oriya to some of the kids there. My mother, who had lived all her young life in Kerala, taught herself Hindi and Oriya within a year. I was the top scorer in Oriya in my class (which had 32 Oriyas in a class 35) for the 5 years that we had to learn the third language.
But when my parents left the place 30 years later, our neighbours had learnt no Malayalam words. Which of course, can be justified as saying that the host people do not need to learn migrant languages.
But I see it all as a person’s aptitude. And also, rspect.
In Bangalore, I have come across people including a Jaisalmeri Rajput, couple of Gujju Muslim families, a Gujju Hindu, scores of Tamizhans and Malayalis and a couple of Oriyas, who speak impeccable Kannada. And they are my role models in my struggle to learn Kannada.
While I am flabbergasted at the generalizations you make in #67, I don’t have the time to go into this. Your ‘introspection’ apparently means summarizing the chip on your shoulder you have toward North Indians, and attributing them with all the blame for this fraught relationship. Nicely done. In fact, you make it seem like South Indians have no agency of their own, and they are marionettes dancing to the tune of North Indians.
I do concede, however, that that Marathi Rajinikanth is actually a trained RAW operative whose mission is to hold the Tamizhs in thrall and amenable to North Indian manipulation.
But note that Nisha means ‘night’ in Hindi and Sanskrit. Meanwhile, I’ve gotta shower. Hopefully, my subconsciousness will also be cleansed of the its inferiority complex wrt to the whites and the Muslims. But think about a few things. What accounts for the equally strong preference for light skin in South India? Where do the loan words in South Indian languages come from (historical conquests, trading partners)?
Somewhat related. Malay-Chinese speaks Punjabi:
http://www.tumtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=cc92fc99b5a3609450cb&page=1&viewtype=&category=mr
Boston Mahesh wrote: DiscoDancer, you don’t have to have a revenge instinct against North Indians in Maharashtra. Please rise above that. i agree with everything else, however. N. Indians are hypocritical in trying their best to be as American as possible as quickly as possible (i.e. playing golf, watching football, and making fun of other Indians). However, when they are in S. India, they REFUSE to assimilate – linguistically, culturally, etc.
You are attributing things that I did not say to me.
Boston Mahesh – your prejudices just amaze me. You know I can point out different cases where north indians have assimilated (Sikhs in Chennai speaking fluent Tamil) and south indians have not (South indians living in isolated south indian suburbs in mumbai), but I will be wise enough to refrain from generalizations based on these cases. Some Indians may be guilty of assimilating more readily when migrating to the US, compared to some other countries (like african or carribean countries), but that could be attributed to the influence of omni-present American pop culture (television, movies, etc), making it easier to assimilate.
There are nativist elements in all parts of India, including TN which is drawing low skilled labor from UP & Bihar. These people are often blamed for all kinds of social ills. There were Tamil dudes who were drunk all the time & committing petty crime 20 years ago but now that some of those drunks are Bihari people begin to take note. Human nature I guess. I doubt that any of these interstate migrants had delusions of superiority before arriving, I think Boston_Mahesh is drawing conclusions based on middle class N. Indians. And even that is not exactly correct. That element find themselves to be physically superior but generally concede intellect and civility to Tamils (I think it is all nonsense).
The biggest misconception N. Indians have about Tamil is that the Dravidianist politicians in the 50s agitated to make it the natl language. Completely bogus, they wanted English to be the natl language with each state to do business in the local tongue. Kind of what happened in India organically despite all the sturm and drang. The fact is that the GOI is weak and doesn’t really offer any benefits except to the babus who pilfer from it, so why would anyone bother to acquire Hindi unless they want to “wet their beaks”? My relatives, except those in the armed services, remain illiterate in Hindi not out of spite but because there are zero economic advantages to acquiring Hindi (or any other Indian language other than your mother tongue).
53 · Apabhransha said
All peninsular and north of India – Indian languages, Tamizh included are structurally similar. Take that structure, insert Sanskrit words and you have Hindi, substitute them with the Farsi and the rare Arabic and you get Urdu. The Sankritised Hindi makes sense to the entire South, even Tamizh speakers where there is a long history of Sanskrit words. Combine Urdu and Hindu and you get Hindi movies.
Boston Mahesh, there are any number of out-of-state Indians in every Indian city who have taken the trouble to immerse themselves in the local language and its culture. I am from Madras and have had Kutchi, Marathi, Saurashtra, Gujarati, Sindhi, Asomiya, Oriya, Meghalaya, Punjabi, and Haryanvi friends, who can speak Tamizh fluently. A Bengali friend of mine took Tamizh in school and college and did pretty well at it. The Gujarati and Rajasthani Jains in Madras run a Tamizh medium school in T.Nagar. My cousins and Tamizh friends in Kolkata read and write in Bangla. All my non-mrathi grad school classmates in Bombay spoke fluent Marathi. Gujaratis from Kerala who have run the umbrella trade for many years speak fluent Malayalam. And of course Tamizh migrant labour in Delhi or Bombay speak fluent Hindi. Check out Dharavi and Antop Hill some day.
75 · jyotsana said
Boston Mahesh Wrote: I have a Bengali friend who was born/raised in Chennai, and he speaks fluent Tamil. As a matter of fact, I know 2 Bengalis who speak fluent Tamils. Bengalis, from my experience, are more culturally sensitive.
However, I apologize that I appeared hateful. I’m not one bit hateful, nor do I feel superior or inferior. I do, however, believe that North Indians are racist and arrogant towards S. Indians. I had a Goan friend who went to school in Annamalai University in TN, and he, being a neutral “Central Indian”, told me of this arrogancy complex. Moreover, when S. Indians visit Delhi, they don’t have much good to say about the racist and color-conscious people there. OTOH, the S. Indians enjoy the kindness of Bombay people. Finally, I’ve experienced arrogancy from a Gujju businessman at the Trivanderum airport.
On another occasion here in the USA, I was at a house party of a new friend of mine. There were many elder people and couples. I remember one lady who was old enough to be my mom was there. She was a Punj-Hindu with the surname “Bawa.” She totally scolded and tried to humiliate that us S. Indians don’t speak Hindi. I swear to god, it seemed that night that she was trying to get everyone on the anti-SouthIndian bandwagon that night. She told me to say a Hindi phrase, that when you translate it to english says “I will not speak Hindi, because I’m a Madrasi.” I could tell by her expression that she was angry as she did so. Her son, btw, was married to a Philipino. I could tell that her son heard a lot of bad about us Macaca Madrasis.
Boston Mahesh,
There are people and people. I can tell you about the close-minded bigots of TN who take great pride in knowing no language other than Tamizh. I have found something almost similar in Bangalore – only this time with Kannada replacing Tamizh. I have also argued endlessly with “North” Indians about various prejudices they hold. I also find it absurd whenever I have to talk a fellow Indian from another part of the land in English rather than some Indian language. The narrow-minded language bias that some Tamizh (and Kannada) speakers hold is not only directed at North Indian languages, but also against other South Indian languages. In TN, the DMK, when MGR broke away from the party, did a Shiv Sena on Malayali establishments and people all over the state – because MGR was a Malayali (although he was even more popular among the Thevars who adopted him, whom of course Karunanidhi’s thugs wouldn’t dare provoke. In Bangalore anti-Tamizh bias can get out of hand but anti-Telugu and anti-Malayalam hostility too isn’t rare. And the funniest part of all this is that around Chennai Central Rly.Stn., you ca find any number of auto/cycle-rickshaw operators, porters, and lodging owners who speak Hindi. Sowcarpet (or Sahukarpet) the Marwari/Kutchi/Gujarati trading neighbourhood is very close to the Chennai Central Rly.Stn. and inside there it is a world apart – the finest thelawala chat shops, Kutchi messes, and rows upon rows of shops run by Kutchi/Gujaratis/Rajasthanis.
Yet I’m sure she doesn’t mind that so many Punj-Hindus don’t speak Punjabi. In fact you should have gotten on her case about that… most likely she would have told you that Punjabi is just a crude ‘slang’…which is a false but unfortunately all too common notion in some quarters, both in India as well as Pakistan. Imagine the self-hating mentality that looks down so badly upon its own heritage!
I am mixed north/south, but I do notice an inherent feeling of superiority among my northern relatives in India towards the south. On the other hand, most of the transformation seems to be happening in the southern states. My view is that 20 years from now it will be the south that will really show-case modern India in almost every aspect, and the north will be playing catch-up. Very ironic indeed.
“It’s a sign of how powerful this party is,”
No, it is a sign of how insecure Indian people are… while ignoring the grander problems of India at large, they are narrow-minded and petty.