Twice a week, a very kind gentleman comes by with a nifty vacuum cleaner strapped to his back, to spruce up the floors. I say nifty because it looks more like a jet-pack or something a lot more fun than a mere appliance. Anyway, when he strolls in with his trademark, “Hell-oooooo!â€, I know it is time to stand up and get out of his way. I usually just move to the other side of my desk and prepare myself for a minute or two of nothingness, but apparently, today will be…something. I hear a familiar voice, but I can’t make out the words above the din of the machine.
I turn around to see who is speaking to me. It is the one Pakistani man I work with, an uber-sweet coworker who likes to make halwa to bring to work, which he then guilts me in to eating—not the first portion, mind you; that goes to our other, “grown-up†coworkers. Oh, no—he comes by towards the end of mithai-madness and always authoritatively says, as he spoons at least three servings on to a paper plate he has helpfully brought with him, “I make you halwa. Eat.â€
When I protest meekly, saying, “It’s too much!â€, because I don’t want to waste food, he gives me the exact same look I get at home, from my Mom at the end of dinner.
“It’s so little. Why you make me put back in dish? If dish is empty, I can wash. Finish it. Be helpful. So I can wash. I not have all day.â€
So, much in the same endearing, parental way he force-feeds me food which my tummy has no room for, he often comes by to “check on†me, the youngest brown member of the team (nine desis work here, total). To see, as he inimitably pronounces it, “how you arrrr DEW-wing!†When I moved away from my desk to facilitate vacuuming, he saw an opportunity and approached.
“Hallo En-ah!â€
“Hi…Mm-…hi†I stammered, just barely resisting the urge to call him Uncle. I can’t bring myself to call him by his first name, which is Mohammad, so I just…well, call him nothing. Who cares if it’s a work environment? The man guilts and keeps tabs on me. Being on a first-name basis ain’t happenin’.
“How is your Mum? She in Kelly-for-nya? Or she visit home, maybe?â€
I have always loved that: home. My heart immediately softens. No matter how many decades my late father lived in this country (three, if we’re counting), despite the American flag planted dramatically in our front yard, when he wasn’t communicating mindfully, he always said that about Kerala, too. Home.
“No, she is in California. She is well, thank you for asking.â€â€œGood. Good. When you last talk to her?â€
“Yesterday, actually.â€
“What she say?â€
“Oh, the usual…ranting about Sarah Palin, asking if I was playing tennis, inquiring about when she’d be getting some grandchildren.â€
Zomg. Did I? I did. I so just went there. Damnit! THIS conversation was about to get…interesting.
Mohammad’s eyes lit up, behind tortoiseshell glasses. He clapped his hands together gleefully, and leaned in…
“Acha! You have to get married, fust! No baby before the shaadi, okay?â€
“Yeah, she’s assuming that’s already happened. Wouldn’t be having kids until AFTER marriage, you see…â€
He cackled, “Oh, that is funny! She makes good point.â€
“She’s efficient like that…why ask two questions when you can pose one, which assumes the other-“
“Well? What you say?â€
“Uh…â€
“Let me see…who is this picture?â€
He leans over the partition we are standing next to, and looks at the frame on my desk.
“Is this? Nooooo. This is not…same boy? I told you was not good for you? Last year?â€
“No, it’s not the same boy.â€
He beheld me joyfully.
“You ARE a good girl! You listened to me, because you know I know best!â€
“Oh…that’s actually not-â€
“Doesn’t matter. He was not a good match for you. This, this one better. Very good. I am excited.â€
“Why do you say that?â€
“Beta, I KNOW. I just KNOW. These are things which you will not understand until you are older. Wiser. You no have a father, correct?†He looks at me, sadly and sincerely. I shake my head.
“It is a father’s duty to get his daughter married. That is our culture. If you no have father, then I should help you. That is the way it is.”
I stare at him, mutely. This is what people whisper about me when I’m at home, when I attend the rare Malayalee event. “You know, if her father were alive…she’d be m-“
“This boy is better. I like him.â€
“Why?â€
“Look at him! Such nice teeth. He come from good family, too, I guarantee it.â€
“How do you know? His hairline? Tear ducts? What?†I smiled at Mohammad, mischievously. “He’s got nice skin, too,†I added, innocently.
He peered at the picture again.
“Yes. Much more fair than other one. But not too fair. But you are not fair either. So it is good.†He looks at me quickly, and immediately adds, “don’ worry, though. You are sanwla. (sp?)â€
“Okay.â€
“He match you. Similar color is good. Smile is good. You two look right together. Much better match. I can tell.†He head-waggles, for emphasis.
“And he’s tall,†I added, faux-dreamily.
“How tall!â€
“6’1?â€
“Veddy good. You not too short. Good. What his parents do?â€
I pause, because I tell myself this shouldn’t matter, and yet…“They are doctors.â€
“Oho! Very good. Prestigious. And he is doctor?â€
“No.â€
“Where he go to school? These things…important, you know? So I can calculate…â€
Calculate?!
“He went to (good school).â€
“Acha. Acha. Well, you should give good dowry.â€
“WHAT?!â€
“Oh yes. Not too much, because he is not doctor too, but you must.â€
“For WHAT?â€
“Well, you must…how to say…balance things out.â€
“What am I balancing? Am I a tire?â€
“You know, you are getting middle-age. Still! You are very, very pretty. You no look your age, but I am trying to help you…face the realities, so you are prepared.â€
“You’re kidding me, right? No dowries. I would harm someone who asked for a dowry. Shit, he should be paying my Mom…you have no idea what level of shenanigans I tolerate. I dutifully go fetch him take-out, so he doesn’t have to miss a minute of the 49ers getting beat by the—“
“You make good wife, no doubt, because you good girl. I know. I know you. I see you every day.â€
“Okay, I know you’re kidding. I’m sorry, I should have realized that—“
“Listen, beta. I no kid about your future.â€
Speechless.
“I got all my nieces married. I have done this. You listen to me, you will be healthy, vealthy, vise. In this country, okay fine it is called vedding ‘gift’,†he says, using scare quotes. “Back home, it is dowry. Simple as that.”
“Oh…â€
“One thing I tell you. You must be similar. You remind me of one niece…she married…but it…ah, rocky now, you know? Difficult. I not want that for you.â€
“That’s nice-“
“You must understand. You must be on same level. Sure he go to good school but so what? Otherwise there is fight. Jealousy. If he not professional and you are professional, you fight.†He smashed his fists together, to punctuate his point.
“He’s-“
“If you think these things in advance, you plan. You know. Then smooth sailing. Marriage will last forever. You will see.â€
“I believe you.â€
“You trust me?â€
“I trust that you only have my best interests-“
“You see, Enah…I can tell you this. Your mom even cannot tell you. It is okay. It is same way with my kids. But I can tell you these. She no see you every day. I see you. I know what you need to do. You good girl.†He shuffles paper I had just set down, on the partition, until they are aligned and stacked flawlessly.
“Thank you.â€
“No problem. I just want to see you get marry, have the children…you know, live your life.â€
“Okay.â€
“You going to get married?â€
“Uh…if we…are on the same…level?â€
“Good! Good. Make sure first, then no divorce later.â€
“Yes.â€
“You listen to me, I will help. I tell you only good things for you. Okay, En-ah. You work. I check on you later.â€
Aww, thats sweet.
Its interesting how desis come closer when they’re far from the motherland.
I remember when I was fresh off the boat, a nice Punjabi lady at a gas station refused to sell me cigarettes saying she was like my elder sister and smoking was bad.
Sometimes, when you’re literally an FOB, and a stranger in a strange land, such small mercies are very endearing (and a little annoying, since I didn’t get my cigarettes!)
My mouth dropped open reading this…wow..just wow…I can’t believe on so many levels what this man has said to you!
On another note, it’s good to have something off-topic about the campaign. Everything was getting so dense for me with Manju, Dr. Amnon, Hitler was….
Again Wow…I can’t believe the level of audacity, the miscommunication, the misunderstanding, that is in this exchange.
By the way in the region of Kerala where I’m from dowry is really frowned upon. I don’t think this is from my particular caste either…as I’ve had it expressed to me from my parents friends who are from different castes.
He’s right, you’ve got to be on the same level. That’s just another way of saying if either one of you don’t respect the other on the core foundation choices you’ve made in life, it won’t work in the long run.
And as for the dowry, it’s not necessary of course. However, it is important that your future in-laws demonstrate in some significant manner how much they value you coming into their family. It’s like getting a good gift, some people hand make something, like a quilt, or give a family heirloom, but a majority of people give something you didn’t want or money because it’s easier. Regardless the amount of time and energy put into the thought behind a gift does count.
Make sure first Anna!
🙂
Im curious to know what region that is.
He sounds, while intrusive, incredibly sweet. I would get the same kind of questioning in Germany when I would go there, with the added bonus of comments about my weight.
“You’ll never find a nice girl weighing so much.”
🙂
You should blow his mind some time and take in some home-cooked food to feed him.
Kannur/Cannanore and Tellichery area – northern, coastal part Kerala.
3 · lion said
ANNA said that in the conversation!
The bigger point the conversation so beautifully illustrates – give a desi acquaintance a tiny hook in to your life and they’ll totally go for the mile, they’ll often want all the way in if they can get it. The second point is about forced conversations in general – often it is the hooks you offer up yourself in an unguarded moment that the other person uses to pull themselves in to your life.
Enjoyed reading it, Anna. Hope it all turns out well for you!
And as for the dowry, it’s not necessary of course. However, it is important that your future in-laws demonstrate in some significant manner how much they value you coming into their family.
I think “dowry” refers to specifically to something that a women’s family gives to her future husband for compensation. I think the man is saying that Anna’s family should give her potential future husband a “dowry” or gift. To me there’s nothing cute about that; dowry is such an evil. It’s true when you know people, personal exchanges like this, and the intrusiveness, ignorance, “being on the same level” comments can be forgiven, but I don’t know him and I have to say at least to me, his comments grate on my nerves. I don’t know how Anna feels but that’s how I took it.
nice story, nice writing
Anna, a very interesting post indeed. Maybe I missed this somewhere, but I am curious to know how did you perceive the whole conversation? Did you view it as an intrusion of your privacy, or did you view it as a colleague being (too) concerned? I guess he probably just has your best interests at heart, but went about expressing them in the wrong way. Then again, I might be wrong. 🙂
7 • chachaji said
Uh…I’m not trying to turn anything. 😉 Except maybe pinker than my NARS blush had already painted me, since posts like these always make me anxious. The reality of my rotting eggs aside, I’m in no rush to be responsible for and tethered to someone forever. If I felt even a smidgen more adult than I currently do, I’d have a pet more interesting than this. Besides, I apparently have some fiscal rearrangin’ to do. I keed, I keed.
Thanks everyone, for the comments so far. 🙂 I almost included “my take” or reaction, but I thought it would be more interesting to leave that undefined for now, for the sake of the potential conversation. I’ll chime in…at some point.
Kudos to you for staying respectful despite his desi uncle intrusiveness. We just have to remember the culture that older 1st gens come from and just grin and bear it when they get into it like this with us.
Brilliant. I get it mostly from Restaurant workers and cab drivers; to be honest I enjoy the questioning as it makes me miss home less 🙂
12 · Amitabh said
sometimes I wish there was more intrusive uncle/aunty behavior at work. The bottom line (actually top-line now) is important and all, but the humanity (other than sports and politics) is sadly absent.
anna, “VEDDY ENT-er-tAIN-ing, la” and thanks for keeping it so. Paid blogging gig can’t be far away?
Women want to marry equals, while most men dont. Someone is getting screwed here
Woo-hoo, I finally said something vaguely controversial on SepiaMunity and got a few comments!
Dowry system is outdated. However I think what gifts and presents that agreed upon between the bride and groom’s families in advance says a lot about how they will treat you in the future. It’s a great indicator to see whose needs are being met and listened too as well, and it displays where conflicts might occur for future problems. If these problems are too large, serious thought should be given to getting married.
Hmm, I just wonder what Anna’s handle will change to from suitablegirl when she gets married.
takenfemale? ikeptmylastnamegirl?
unsuitablegirl?
“I can’t bring myself to call him by his first name, which is Mohammad”
Why not? And why can’t you “bring yourself” to call him by his surname?
17 · Osama Van Halen said
It’s a respect thing. Look in to it.
This made my day.
15 · ShallowThinker said
Lets not get all graphic here. This is a family-friendly blog. 😛
Got to say you were exceedingly polite, anna. I would have told him to mind his own business
Dowry is already a taboo subject in desh, but alas this is not!!
I’m a guy and I’m familiar with these types of talks from well-meaning aunties and uncles. While I often smile and agree, is it wrong I often want to say “why don’t you just shut up”? I never would cause that would just be mean, but what the hell, you don’t know my life or experiences. I have seen the never ending drive to get married to the RIGHT boy/girl in the RIGHT way cause seriously, life-long struggles and problems with my family and close friends. Plus, this isn’t India, it’s America! Even India isn’t India anymore with all the churn over what’s right with arranged marriages, dowry, etc. Those of us born and raised in the States GET IT! I mean, how could we not with this being the only, inevitable, conversation we have with certain elder family and friends (and strangers). Is it so hard to ask those from India get things are different here? Not worse or better, just different?
While I never would say so to a well meaning stranger who doesn’t realize what they are doing, I just wanted to throw it out here: these conversations are very annoying and somewhat offensive.
His name is Mohammad, so I am assuming he is Muslim.
So, I thought the Muslim system was the Dower, in which the groom/groom’s side pays the bride/bride’s family. Why would he go on about what happened with his nieces and equating it with dowry? And also talking about how that is the way it’s done “back home.”
So, South Asian Muslims–or Indian Muslims, if he is Indian–also incorporate dowry into marriages, though traditionally it is a dower system?
24 · de-lurker said
“…It is the one Pakistani man I work with, an uber-sweet coworker…”
just clarifying. Its even better that he’s Pakistani, which just goes to show that at a person-to-person level, borders dont count.
“these conversations are very annoying…”
I used to hate weddings being a single Punjabi girl. All the old elder aunties would poke me and say, “you’re next.”
They soon stopped when I started saying the same to them at funerals.
However I think what gifts and presents that agreed upon between the bride and groom’s families in advance says a lot about how they will treat you in the future.
I don’t think so…anyways the way you describe it, this isn’t dowry.
This is what Mohammed said:
“Veddy good. You not too short. Good. What his parents do?â€
I pause, because I tell myself this shouldn’t matter, and yet…“They are doctors.â€
“Oho! Very good. Prestigious. And he is doctor?â€
“No.â€
“Where he go to school? These things…important, you know? So I can calculate…â€
Calculate?!
“He went to (good school).â€
“Acha. Acha. Well, you should give good dowry.â€
He is talking about dowry – the price a women’s family pays to her husband’s family for the son marrying the daughter. And since Anna’s bf’s parents are doctors, Mohammed is quickly calculating the dowry for that. You know, it’s so “prestigious” that his parents are doctors, and Anna’s family must give an appropriate amount for this. Dowry is really such a problem in INdia – it’s often the underlying cause for female infanticide and dowry burnings.
I wonder how his calculation works – what’s the forula when the bf’s parents are surgeons and bf is surgeon general? if bf’s parents are motel owners?, restaurant workers, nasa scientists. Exchanges like this make me frustrated b/c you don’t want to be rude to someone who seems like a nice uncle or auntie, even when what they are saying is so against everything you believe in and it’s usually in a social setting or in public at a place that sells cigarettes (I’ve had the S.asian owner not sell me cigs too – which isn’t a bad peer pressure). Anyways I’m glad Anna got to put something in there, about her what I presume is her intolerance for dowry:
“You’re kidding me, right? No dowries. I would harm someone who asked for a dowry. Shit, he should be paying my Mom…you have no idea what level of shenanigans I tolerate. I dutifully go fetch him take-out, so he doesn’t have to miss a minute of the 49ers getting beat by the—“
They soon stopped when I started saying the same to them at funerals.
That was so funny!
26 · Bobby said
<
blockquote>
Very wrong, but so very funny!
I got a lecture like this recently from a Desi Taxi person, asked me to settle down, buy a home, and told me he could give me contacts of good real estate agents. Not sure whether he was trying to get commission, but sounded very concerned.
I think just as there is a cuddling instinct, there is a mollycoddling instinct. Some people just need to play Mother Hen, worrying and fanning and puttering around others, it makes their day. I don’t mind playing lil-hatched-chick to them most of the time, though probably not everytime. I am never rude though, it is a slice of home.
To all of you complaining about intrusiveness, wait till the DBD population is taken over by the current generation from the metros. Everyone brown would then be polite and careful and pussyfooty and just stare through you, as do all goras, lonely and longing in their vast and empty personal spaces, but bristling instinctively at every intrusion, and carefully avoiding any. They remind me of hedgehogs.
BTW, I second PS on the view on dowry in North Kerala.
Taxi:
Word
i’ve read the practice of dowry was much more restricted around 1900. it has spread outside of its upper caste hindu ghetto over the past century through elite emulation.
I was just reading the new Esquire, which seemed like one giant India edition, and they had a small article on Ratan Tata, one of the most powerfull business men in the world and he has never been married and he is 71 years old.
So all I have to do is be one of the most powerful men in the world and people will back the fuc# up off me.
Tell him he can help you by paying your dowry for you 😉
Subconscious messages from uncley post entering your brain to make you talk about uncley commenters in uncley conversation, eh?. 🙂
Just this morning I was thinking about the North Indian Hindi-film-rental aunty from years ago who would try to match me up with almost every single young South Indian man in her matchmaking Rolodex. “His last name is Sooobruh-munyum. That will be ok with your mummy, daddy, background, naah? Beti, you’re in grajoo-ate school, it is time.” I’d smile, say no thanks, pay and walk out.
Well-meaning in their own minds does not equate to actually well-meaning. The whole reason their daughters and I are educated is so we can stand on our own feet and not have men take care of us – degrees, not just for marriage CVs any more! And, yes, they should mind their own business (she would totally have asked me to mind mine if I had asked how much she made per year), but something stops you from talking back. That something is mostly not wanting a confrontation (with your elders) and partly that, if you tell them nicely to back off, they will.
does this sort of thing happen to women more often?
razib, how could we (women) possibly know if it happens more to us than to men?
razib, how could we (women) possibly know if it happens more to us than to men?
compare how often your male and female friends talk about it. i don’t know enough brown people well to really have a large N.
“Namastey Uncle..”
“Hello Beta.. come in, come in.. please sit, when did you come to India?”
“Just a couple of days ago ..I wanted to thank you for taking my mother to the emergency room when she was hurt. You know its so hard being away from the family all the way out there, especially when something like this were to happen.. but I feel better knowing that my mother has such caring neighbours”
“Its no problem beta, what are neighbours for?. Want some tea, cold drink?”
“No No uncle, I’m fine, infact I just had some at home.. please dont worry about it”
“Bring some tea for Srini..I’ll have some too.. ” ( addressing his wife )
“No uncle, its ok, I just had some..”
“I’m having it as well, just a little bit wouldn’t hurt”
“OK”
“Beta, I wanted to tell you .. your mother works so hard and you’re not getting any younger. All she wants is for to see you get married.. she wants a grand kid…………
After that I wasn’t really paying any attention to whatever else he was saying as I was so mad, wanted to tell him to shut up as it was none of his business BUT I had to be polite, partly because I was feeling guilty for not being there for my mother.
I was at a wedding last year and sat next to an uncle I had not seen for some time. He was telling me about how I NEED to get married soon and not to leave it too long. He said how he spent his twenties being stupid and picking out faults in the girls. I was like yeah-ok kaka I’ll get right on that. He said, this is good advice I’m serious, “because if you leave it too long you’ll end up like me and marry someone like your kakiâ€. I nervously laughed; surprised she did not hear as she was sitting right in front of us.
Intrusive? Rude? All depends on the person asking. Everyone has a story to tell, just hard finding a person with the time to listen.
Same level, every elder I know says it is important, and I guess it is. I don’t I will know or fully understand until I am older. Two of my friends got married a few weeks back and I was talking to the brides younger cousin sister, she asked
“if I went to Uni with them both?â€
Yeah I did, did you threaten to bash his face in if he hurts her?
“No just want to know if he is humbleâ€
Yeah I guess he is
To which she gave a satisfied “goodâ€.
39 · razib said
Aha! So that’s how you make your N grow…
Incidentally, the NYT is now promoting arranged marriages.
I am 34 and not married and get this line of reasoning from well meaning uncles and aunties here and back home in India. It is not a big deal for me personally as I don’t see any malice in what they say. It is easier just to ignore than be offended.
29 · Jangali Janwar said
I’ve heard this somewhere else. And somehow I doubt that there are so many insolent Punjabi girls poking aunties at funerals.
Lessons learnt after being married for (almost) a year…
These intrusive unsolicitated opinions don’t go away after you accomplish the marriage thing. The same people will ask you about your reproductive health 10 minutes after you get married and keep harping on about children and the same uncle will “check up” on your ovaries the day after your nuptuals.
A common ground (religion, culture, food, family, education etc) definitely helps a marriage but not enough to make a marriage work. You still need love, respect and a common desire and vested interest in seeing the other person happy and successful in whatever they do in life.
Education is important (as if some educated girl who does well financially is going to marry a scrub from the street) but doesn’t guarantee class, nor that the guy will treat you well or not cheat on you or that his family will treat you with kindness or respect. Those are all things that no amount of education can buy.
At the end of the day marriage neither defines you nor guarantees anything. It’s just an extension of who you are as a person.
There are perks though…the amazing deep sense of love and emotional bond is so much more powerful being married than when I hadn’t quite married him 🙂
Please enjoy being single, definitely enjoy being coupled, marriage isn’t necessary for anything other than validation of one’s place and self in society.
45 · opal mehta said
Opal child, It’s not my joke. It’s someone else on this thread who I quoted when I said the joke was “Wrong, but so very funny”. Just wanted to give proper attribution as you know how that’s a problem. And it’s a joke, the author wasn’t literally trying to convey that Punjabi girls go along poking aunties in this manner. I can’t read the author’s mind but I’m pretty sure the joke was meant in the spirit of levity. BTW, it doesn’t make a Punjabi girl “insolent” (that’s your term) if she goes for a laugh (and if she did poke her aunties at funerals it would make her reckless not insolent as a punjabi aunty would let the chappals fly).
Perhaps, your word insolent is really the problem. The joke and this post resonate because many of us have experienced well-meaning aunties and uncles. As you can see from the post and the thread, most people appreciate the thought behind it and I’d guess many secretly like the idea of someone caring enough to care. What may be the issue unsaid is pressure or blind obedience. No one particularly likes the idea that they maybe “insolent” if they don’t exactly follow the advice. So Opal, let the jokes, levity, and appreciation for the aunties and uncles who care for us continue without trying to start a beef. Thanks.
Yikes – I was also joking! I love that particular quote too but I was pointing out that I don’t think the commenter on this blog was original in posting (which is snarky in its own right, I admit). I didn’t mean to pin anything on you, sorry for inappropriate use of quotes.
Down with Aunties/Uncles who poke and prod!
moving along, when are one of you capitalists going to set up an arranged marriage dating site for we queerfolk. I would like to face these problems too – even though they suck.
Desi Industry Rule #4080: Options are good 🙂
Wow, thank goodness you worked that dowry part into your post, I was starting to get teary. You know, I’m Pakistani-American and nobody in my family has ever had a dowry. Ever. Well, ok, I can only verify as far back as my grandmothers. In fact, we have something called a mahram where the guy’s family has to pay up (Yes, yes, here come the comments about reverse sexism, or insidious sexism, not the point, ok?). So, maybe it is not regional, but familial? I just feel like I had to share this since “Uncle’s” Pakistani status was included in the story. Good post, though.
47 · Jangali Janwar said
Great JJ–thanks for providing more proof that the economy is taking a nosedive.
48 · opal mehta said
But that’s where cousins come from!
Seriously, don’t have a cow mang. (Oh, Harbeer, you’re such a ham [def. #6, not #4].)