One of the more interesting takes on the whole teen pregnancy upset was given to me by Brian Weber, a 25-year-old delegate from Dodge City, Ks:
“I don’t think it’ll have an effect on elections. I think Palin’s daughter’s choice to have her baby will ring true with Americans.”
Weber says he has spoken to many delegates from many states, all of whom say this hasn’t shaken their faith in the McCain/Palin ticket; instead, Weber said, they feel this is proof that the pro-life conviction can be put into action by anyone in any sphere of life. That view is shared by James Dobson, founder of the conservative Focus on the Family. According to an NPR story, he:
“commending the Palins ‘for not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family values, but living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances.’ He added: ‘Being a Christian does not mean you’re perfect. Nor does it mean your children are perfect. But it does mean there is forgiveness and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord.'”
It’s an interesting premise, a twist on the Obama-eschewed-a-high-paying-corporate-law-job-to-help-the-people or McCain-suffered-in-a-POW-camp-he-knows-the-horrors-of-war. Here it’s Palin who has chosen belief over facility (though it undoubtedly would have been much worse had the story of her teenage daughter’s abortion broke). Will she lose McCain supporters for standing by her daughter through a teen pregnancy? Probably not. Will she gain fence-sitters for sticking to her principles? It’s not clear. But in my opinion, this can’t alienate Palin from voters any more than her strange resume already might.
That’s just my opinion though.
I’ll be headed to a Ron Paul rally later today, which I hope to post about. My laptop has a virus on it, so I can’t post a picture I have of some Paulites doing their thing in front of MSNBC cameras, but I plan on posting all the pics I’ve taken so far tonight, using the hotel computer.
This is the most interesting election I can remember, and I’m a (gulp) almost forty-one year old from Iowa whose election memories go back to the Reagans coming to Iowa for the primaries (Nancy Reagon to my junior high school and the Mondale and Ferraro children to my high school). Wow. Politics makes people nuts….
46 · Nayagan said
Nope. You left out da booty, among other things ;). unless your sex life is as boring as mine is.
Manju in #32
I think Harbeer has already touched upon the point I was making. I think most leftists wouldn’t care a hoot about this, its the very conservative base of hers that cares for things like good parenting, family values and abstinence. And when she turns out to be a failure in the very thing she is supposed to be their holier than thou leader for, they instead talk about how wonderful she is to not abort the baby. But then, they do not talk about the fact that John ‘start another cold war for honor’ McCain was not exactly faithful to wifey #1 while doing his thing with wifey #2 (of course he said it was a moral failing and all’s forgiven and forgotten). Or that the party of morals and values has no qualms about lying and churning out negative misrepresentation in their ads (the McCain ad quoting Obama as calling Iran weak is a prime example). And does anyone who said that Obama is not ready to be commander in chief really believe Palin is, where did all the complainers go.
Ardy – I think the whole point of the social conservative thing is (and I’m not a social conservative) is that solid families are better for society, not that each person advocating solid families is going to be perfect. By that logic, every rich Democratic Senator advocating higher taxes on the rich should voluntarily pay more tax. Hey, I’m just being contrarian. I don’t think either ticket is especially perfect.
Don’t kid yourselves. These are okay candidates, and they will likely do fine, but it’s not the greatest group ever assembled. I do have to admit, I have a soft spot for that whole selling the plane of ebay thing by Palin….
50 · Dr Amnonymous said
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic (no “;-)” that time) so I’ll just spell it out for you: I’m kidding. I’m riffing off of a long comment history and specifically Vic‘s silly comment.
I’m not sure of it, but I think I might have been the first person to use the word “heteronormative” on this blog (in earnest, even, on the now inaccessible, epic “Is Dating White Not Right?” thread. I am anti-authoritarian, dude–I coerce no one to join my harem–they are free to come and come and come and go and form whatever uh/holy unions they desire.
54 · MD said
That’s something Althouse would say. I love the comments section at bloggingheads after she does a session.
Meh, the same saga again. History (and judgment) have shown that the overtly pious have a gajillion skeletons in their closet. Hypocrites. If this were to happen to Chelsea or one of Obama’s daughters, the Dobsons, Hannitys and the like would pounce and crucify them.
I’m sick of this. Can Nov. 4 arrive ANY slower?
Here’s Roland Martin of CNN discussing the Palin issue… he argues it very well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDTMsve1QM4 start at 2 mins (but the entire clip is great)
55 · Harbeer said
I know you’re kidding; But I wasn’t being sarcastic. I know you’re left; that’s why I even bothered to enter the discussion with you on the overlaps of feminism/anti-authoritarianism 🙂 The Maoists in Nepal have probably been among the strongest anti-patriarchal movements in South Asia outside of strictly feminist groups and helped foster a lot of good work and even they have some issues.
Anyway, speech policing sucks, so that’s not what i want to do here – just wanted to point out some of the issues 🙂
MD – I could not agree more on that and also quite agree with the weaknesses of various candidates that you point out (I tend to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative and so would love to see less pandering to the fringe extremes by either party). Though when it comes to McCain, I do feel a little more worried about his recklessness as this article points out.
That said, I would agree that most normal social conservatives are not necessarily perfect in the values they believe in. However, when we are talking about a leader (heck its the veep) who strongly advocates abstinence and who has been nominated in large part for her ‘strong conservative’ credentials and her being a woman, I would think that social conservatives would be more bothered by the turn of events than I am seeing. Instead of seeing an expected mixed reaction, what I have seen among conservatives can almost be called a positive reaction.
Totally irrelevant to the basic argument of feminist, which is that women should be able to achieve the highest office. Being pro-choice or not is not patriarchy. I don’t know where you are going with comparison of Indira Gandhi and sterilization, and Condi, Iraq position as it relates to the discussion of Palin’s teenage daughter’s pregnancy. The basic issue is that Obama’s decision making with regards to taking drugs at 17 is more important with regards to his decision making ability rather than 17 year old Bristol Palin decision to have sex with man she thinks she’s going to marry. Bristol is not running for presidency.
Similarly, is drinking and driving is an untenable position because Gore’s son got caught doing it? Is staying away from drugs untenable when you are young because Barack did it? No one is perfect, but to give up on becoming a better person because perfection is unachievable is what your argument suggests is silly and scary at the same time.
That is exactly my point. If we are to look at what a candidate’s daughter did when she was 17, I say that it is more relavent what the candidate themselves did when they were 17. Obama fails miserably on that account.
61 · Vic said
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Totally irrelevant to the basic argument of feminist, which is that women should be able to achieve the highest office. Being pro-choice or not is not patriarchy. I don’t know where you are going with comparison of Indira Gandhi and sterilization, and Condi, Iraq position as it relates to the discussion of Palin’s teenage daughter’s pregnancy. The basic issue is that Obama’s decision making with regards to taking drugs at 17 is more important with regards to his decision making ability rather than 17 year old Bristol Palin decision to have sex with man she thinks she’s going to marry. Bristol is not running for presidency.
I think you completely misunderstand what feminism means and the range of views it can reasonably accommodate; it’s hard to carry on a conversation about feminism and Palin’s interaction with it if we don’t see eye to eye on that.
In other word you can’t compete with liberal based arguments…
I give an out to both sides 🙂
No, but if you can’t see what I’m saying about prominent political leaders who are women and gain power but are not serving feminist ends, there’s really nowhere for us to go in this conversation, eh?
What feminist end is Palin not serving besides being pro-life….or that argument supersedes all the rest. She typifies what all feminists are fighting for, but she’s a republican so she must be torn down. Hypocrisy at its finest. You are right we have nothing to talk about.
66 · Vic said
What feminists are you talking about? Name some feminists who are tearing Palin down because her family-values-driven good Christian daughter is pregnant? Just because someone is a woman does not mean that she is a feminist. What feminist tradition are you alluding to? First wave, second wave, third world?
Most second and third wave feminists I have come across have roundly critiqued the focus on shaming the young girl.
However, it is perfectly legitimate to go after the so-called family values of Palin’s, especially when she is using that to appeal to her base of religious right, who are all about Jesus-lovin’, moral superiority. Palin herself held herself as a morally superior person by touting her faith-based life.
What Palin represents is the hypocrisy of the religious right base: too much Jesus-juice, not enough Jesus.
i think it is admirable how Tina Palin Fey and Cindy bindy macaccamcain continue to expose their children at the RNC
To put it another way, suppose you have a group dedicated to strategies that oppress women. Now suppose that a woman is nominated to the top of that group and does her work well in pursuing that group’s strategies. Does that make that woman, her work, or the group feminist? (you can replace woman and feminist with words like racial minority and anti-racist or lgbt and pro-sexual minorities, etc.)
On the basis of what you have said so far, my assumption is that you think that it does, which is a deep misreading of what social justice consists of.
Trust me, this isn’t about Republicans and Democrats, though because of the nature of the Republican party’s elites right now, what has happened is much more egregious than what I would accept out of a much savvier and less impulsive Obama campaign. Bill Clinton’s decision to throw poor women off of welfare rolls and deny benefits to green card holders was pretty anti-woman too — but as a whole I would say that the Republican party has a more anti-woman agenda than the Democratic Party, but neither are particularly great these days.
67 · Nesha said
Thanks Nesha…I was starting to think that I had was living in another reality 🙂
51 · MD said
hey, not just evangelicals, even liberals have the same “hate the sin, love the sinner” philosophy. why do you think we appreciate sarah palin’s milfiness, in spite of the rabid and deranged views she holds?
Conservative columnist Richard Cohen had this to say of Newt Gingrich’s full-throated defense of Palin:
It’s a pity Gingrich was not around when the Roman Emperor Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, better known by his nickname Caligula, reputedly named Incitatus as a consul and a priest. Incitatus was his horse.
Yeah, and which of those various times over 7 years shouldn’t he have been driving ? Immoral maybe not. Criminal yes. Guess his family values never taught him that. Tipper Gore started the whole “family values” thing in the mid 80s and even wrote a book “Raising PG Kids in an X-Rated Society” before Al Jr’s incidents.
Don’t get your panties/thong in a bunch… you may hurt yourself. Then again… maybe that wouldn’t hurt you.
finally some mention of ron paul’s rally!!!!!
You’re welcome. You are not in another reality, you’re just being made to think that you are. In addition to hypocrisy (arguing for sanctity of life, except when it comes to invading sovereign nations and funding occupations so that Jesus can have his second coming), Republican talking points are all about spinning truths. So hold on to your seat: Expect to be called a hypocrite, sexist, elite, uppity, arugula-eating wimp…etc., etc., as Palin’s “credentials” get questioned. Nothing new, typical Republican smoke and mirrors trick. YAWN.
The good thing about Bristol’s pregnancy is that she is not off to college next year. Which is great, because we all know that college is for elite uppities. Not for dem moose-huntin’ regular folks. Praise the Lord. Amen.
But Harbeer had no “hell” citerion. he said in order to be “the worst kind of clueless hypocrites” one must “actively campaigning against the behavior they themselves indulge in.” So by his own criteria isn’t Gore then in the same closet as Haggart and Craig?
Homosexuals are immune to pollutants?
I’m pro-imperialism. But we’re talking about hypocrisy…which is pretext being used by to talk about Bristols private sex life and spread rumors about her mothers.
73 · Vikram said
I go commando. (Nice attempt at a cheap shot, junior. Keep trying. You’ll get it one day.)
Well then don’t drink … you might leave skidmarks if you aren’t careful.
Sally Quinn…comes to mind even without looking. National organization of Women (NOW) has been conspicuously absent in defending her from attacks on her daughter. That is the premier ‘feminist’ organization that a layman recognizes. As for questioning Palin’s credential…Nobody argued against that. Its dragging her 17 year old girl through mud that is the issue here. Do not try to confuse the issue. I would argue that dragging 17 year old Obama drug use is more relavent topic. NYT had three stories on front page about the Palin pregnancy. Isn’t Obama’s connection to Bill Ayers more important….for example.
How do you know the baby wasn’t conceived “immaculately”? Be on the lookout for Wisemen from Dallas bearing gifts of oil futures, Bob Jone’s Univeristy tuition vouchers and creamed moose jerky
So Mrs. Palin is now a GMILF instead of just regular MILF. I wonder if this will help win the independent vote.
Sally Quinn? Hardly who I would present her as a leading feminist. NOW’s silence? You obviously are not familiar with NOW as an organization and what they sound off on and what they don’t.
The issue is your statement earlier about hypocritical feminists. That’s the issue. And when asked for details of what feminists you are talking about, you came up with an EPIC FAIL.
I love GOP talking heads. Who defines more relevant? The GOP? I am sure McCain “bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran” is a more relevant topic. Maybe GWB’s cocaine-filled adulthood is a more relevant topic. Maybe Larry Craig’s foot tapping is a more relevant topic.
Maybe McCain’s own “black” baby is more relevant a topic of how the GOP goes after Bangladeshi, adopted 8 year olds.
Maybe GOP calling 13 year old Chelsea Clinton a ugly-ugly kid is more relevant.
Who cares. Look at the topic title, genius. There is a reason why we are talking about Palin’s kid’s kid.
So what? Sepia has one blog devoted to the topic. Irrelevant point. It has nothing to do with your original contention that feminists are hypocrites, which is what I called you out on.
Jeez, talk about spinning, and doing a lousy job of it…
Here is the naughty librarian in crusader mode, we are fighting God’s war in Eye-rack.
76 · Manju said
Homosexuals are immune to pollutants?
I want you to sit quietly for a few minutes with this quote from you. Think about what it means. Think about what you’re trying to say, what you’re implying here, both about yourself and the importance of ideas vs. words and how one should talk about other people’s pain and politics.
Then, if you feel like it, come back and apologize for taking real pain and turning it into rhetorical tactics, and review all the other things you write or have written.
Sorry to be condescending, but I feel this comment you made is beyond the pale.
Dr A:
Yes, too glib a comment about such an horrendous incident. I guess we’re speaking past each other since you’re talking of bigotry and I’m only addressing hypocrisy. But if we are speaking of bigotry then Gore is no way comparable to Haggart, etc.
I apologize.
17 · bleh said
the only people allowed to pimp kids are repubs…
Neha says
I name Sally Quinn
Sally Quinn writes for Newsweek and Washington Post, and is fairly well known . You asked for a feminist..I gave you one. Then you changed your rant that it has to be a ‘leading feminist’ (per your criteria). I can give you more, but I know the typical loser comeback…’that’s not a feminist…give me another.’
As for NOW…from their website..”We organize to initiate or support action, nationally, or in any part of this nation, by individuals or organizations, to break through the silken curtain of prejudice and discrimination against women in government, industry, the professions, the churches, the political parties, the judiciary, the labor unions, in education, science, medicine, law, religion and every other field of importance in American society”.
Protecting Palins from attacks based (from say what Sally Quinn argues). is the definition of their existence as per their goals.
Bush was attacked for his drinking problem and it was front page story for many days…even though the events in question were 20 years prior. As far as rest of your rant, it just illuminates your lack of logic.. and I could care less. I bet you were bad at math.
85 · Manju said
Thanks…I appreciate the apology. This was my point all along – that questions of hypocrisy are secondary to questions of violence and power.
84 · Dr AmNonymous said
down with censors!
89 · Nayagan said
Ban censorship.
mccain to media: you are either with us or against us. if this is the situation for one exchange, one can only look forward to a wonderful mccain white house which will trump the bush government in terms of blackmailing the press into kowtowing on the party line.
in contrast, obama is willing to appear on fox, something even john mccain has been too cowardly to do so far.
But why??!!
From AlterNet:
93 · Harbeer said
o c’mon…the allowance she pays her own daughter is her business.
93 · Harbeer said
How dare you? I say, how dare you, you misogynist? Introducing a child into the conversation? Only Sarah Palin is allowed to pimp kids out for political ends, weren’t you told?
And for those who are watching Giuliani’s speech right now, it was quite a spectacle to see Rudy and the entire Republican crowd spit on the entire notion of community organizing.
All problems are solved with sex-education and condoms. American teenager should read SM posts diligently 🙂
I’m live-blogging Palin, over on HERstory…
89 · Nayagan said
Hey Mr. Libertarian – have you thought through the consequences of your philosophy? If you don’t want the government or other institutions to intervene to redress harmdoing or resolve conflicts, then promoting self-regulating community resolution – esp through effective communication and honesty and maturity – is a really really really really good idea.
Or else, you can just sit there and wait for the government to come and shut you down while you flail your arms crying “free speech” 😉
David Shuster, is that you?
But thanks for not calling Obama a pimp.
she’s hitting the ball out of the court. formidable character. the itony of the democrtic party getting wacked by their own sexism and classim, though fellow neocon andy sullivan took the cake.