One of the more interesting takes on the whole teen pregnancy upset was given to me by Brian Weber, a 25-year-old delegate from Dodge City, Ks:
“I don’t think it’ll have an effect on elections. I think Palin’s daughter’s choice to have her baby will ring true with Americans.”
Weber says he has spoken to many delegates from many states, all of whom say this hasn’t shaken their faith in the McCain/Palin ticket; instead, Weber said, they feel this is proof that the pro-life conviction can be put into action by anyone in any sphere of life. That view is shared by James Dobson, founder of the conservative Focus on the Family. According to an NPR story, he:
“commending the Palins ‘for not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family values, but living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances.’ He added: ‘Being a Christian does not mean you’re perfect. Nor does it mean your children are perfect. But it does mean there is forgiveness and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord.'”
It’s an interesting premise, a twist on the Obama-eschewed-a-high-paying-corporate-law-job-to-help-the-people or McCain-suffered-in-a-POW-camp-he-knows-the-horrors-of-war. Here it’s Palin who has chosen belief over facility (though it undoubtedly would have been much worse had the story of her teenage daughter’s abortion broke). Will she lose McCain supporters for standing by her daughter through a teen pregnancy? Probably not. Will she gain fence-sitters for sticking to her principles? It’s not clear. But in my opinion, this can’t alienate Palin from voters any more than her strange resume already might.
That’s just my opinion though.
I’ll be headed to a Ron Paul rally later today, which I hope to post about. My laptop has a virus on it, so I can’t post a picture I have of some Paulites doing their thing in front of MSNBC cameras, but I plan on posting all the pics I’ve taken so far tonight, using the hotel computer.
I’m pretty pro-life, but y’all know if Chelsea Clinton had the same thing happen during the 1996 election the hypocritical Dobsons of the world would have been all over them.
Dubya and McCain gettin down outside the convention (brought to you by the Ronald Reagan Home for the Criminally Insane.)
So, let me get this straight. They are cool with the whole teenage pregnancy/unmarried sex thing? Palin = teen sex ok! I’ve always been cool with it. Didn’t realize she would be. Then again, maybe she asked her daughter to get pregnant for her. I can imagine being pregnant while in office would have been difficult. Well, at least she knows how to delegate. Who got appointed Baby Daddy in this particular case? I wonder if I can get an intership at the Department of Baby Mama Drama.
The question is what would have happened if Obama’s daughter was in a similar position. It’s not as if conservatives call unwed teenage minority mothers welfare queens or any such thing… Will Fox describe Bristol as Levi’s baby mamma now?
3 · The Other Brown Meat said
The only valid question from this of her position on sex education. Does she advocate educating the teens on safe sex or abstinence only? Obviously she dint do a good job of educating her daughter! I am surprised there have been no reports or investigations on that, but then maybe she hasn’t made any statements on that.
Why does everyone assume that Palin is the one who made the choice? Shouldn’t the assumption be that her daughter is the one who “chose blief over facility”?
Maybe a republican can answer this – If Palin is their oh so wonderful leader and since abstinence is such a dear cause to her, how come no one cares that their leader was not even able to inspire her own daughter into espousing one of her much loved causes? How in the name of the lord is she going to lead and motivate the country?
“Palin took a hard line on a question in 2006 from the conservative Eagle Forum Alaska:
Q: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.”
im wondering if her daughter really wants to marry the BF or is that the only choice given to her by mum and dad…in which case, poor thing.
Well can she concede now that abstinence only sex-ed programs do not work?
Your premise is that abstinence education should work 100% of the time with everyone it’s tried on. Does safe sex education work 100% of the time. Does anything work 100% of the time with all those involved in it?
What if she loses and her kid and grandkid go through life thinking they had something to do with that? This is all about her celebrity and she put that before her own daughter. What else could you expect from a person, who thinks she is so hot that she should be in a beauty contest and declared the hottest thing ever?
So VSC, are you saying that abstinence-only sex ed is effective in preventing teen pregnancy? Because there’s a whole host of studies that say otherwise.
Or are you just arguing for the sake of it?
Oh and off-topic: What exactly is the desi angle on this post? Not that I mind, of course.
10 · vsc said
Yes. 100% of all people are going to have sex (even priests and our friend Rob) so let’s just start off by acknowledging that instead of pretending like it’s not going to happen or like it’s some kind of moral failure when it does.
Harbeer-
Word.
Hahaha, whatever happened to their pro-abstinence values??? Trust the evangelicals to turn this one around to their advantage.
I love watching the left struggle with this Palin baby momma issue.
The abortion loving left’s solution for Bristol Palin’s out-of-wedlock “fetus” is: abortion. Their solution for Sarah Palin’s other “problem” (ie, the Down’s kid) is also, you guessed it, abortion.
The left now does not know what to do when people decide not to tackle problems the way they prescribe.
15 badmash said
I don’t know.. why don’t you tell us? I missed the part where they said “we’re pro-abstinence upon penalty of death”. What do you expect them to do – stone her to death or admit a mistake and make the best of things?
But keep picking on a 17-year old kid to score your political points. You guys really understand the American electorate and are bang-on to winning the presidency again.
10 · vsc said
No, that’s not the presumption I am working off of. All I am saying that “only” having abstinence programs does not help.
The double-standards here within the GOP are horrifying. What’s more horrifying is that this whole abortion debate is taking center stage right now; it sickens me that any woman would throw her personal and private decision into the media the way Palin has with herself and her daughter. It’s a deeply personal decision that shouldn’t even be an issue in the political realm. The whole “pro-life feminist” thing is also very upsetting. Way to set us back, Palin.
17 · bleh said
<
blockquote>15 badmash said
I actually would have guessed closer to “stone her to death.” I always forget about double standards and the policitization of religion.
Perhaps people should be reminded of the chronicles of the offspring of a former Vice President & Presidential candidate, starting from 2000, just before the Democratic convention:
22 · Vikram said
Oh yeah, sure, rich and powerful people’s kids get busted and walk away with a slap on the wrist all the time. The thing about scandals like Ted Haggard’s, Jimmy Swaggart’s, Larry Craig’s, etc. is that they are actively campaigning against the behavior they themselves indulge in. Dan Burton is a big time drug warrior but his son got busted growing 30 marijuana plants. Rush Limbaugh advocated for draconian drug penalties even as he was strung out.
They’re just the worst kind of clueless hypocrites and that’s why they’re being called out on it.
21 · Dr Amnonymous said
Fixed. 🙂
Leftist come across as complete hypocrite on this issue. Isn’t it the left whose agenda is for women to be in workplace and be successful. Palin satisfies everything the feminist want a women to be, However, she’s opposed to abortion and is a conservative so she must be attacked. If siblings and children are to be looked into, the bigger issue is Biden’s own son, who is being sued for fraud. Why isn’t that in the news. Why isn’t Rezko’s association with Obama in the news. Gore’s son was caught driving drunk just before Democratic convention. That was conveniently ignored by the media. Association with Rezko and Aiyers are decisions that Obama conscientiously made. When Obama was Bristol Palin’s age, he was high on drugs (his own book), and possibly dealing them (Clinton’s campaign manager allegation). Obama is the one running for presidency, not Bristol Palin. Obama’s decision making and his associations should be the focus, not a 17 year old teenager.
This is going to backfire big time on the left as this will consolidate the right base big time..
19 · Sarita said
Umm…You actually think that she voluntarily decided to have a kid with Down’s Syndrome so that she can publicize it later when she gets to run for the VP of the United States…and her daughter too decided to get pregnant so that the GOP can spin it as a pro against abortion?
There is a fallacy in logic here……If she had kept it a secret, then she would be the cruel mother who hid her child (pick one) she was ashamed of and Alexander Dumas’s Louis would become relevant again.
Yeah, but you have people saying Palin cannot control her daughter or is a bad mother. You don’t hear people saying Gore is bad father who didn’t speak to his son about drugs or was more interested in winning the Presidency (when his son’s troubles were going on).
Some fence-sitters may find the whole pregnancy drama a little creepy. Also G in GILF changing from ‘governor’ to ‘grandma’ might have some impact on Palin’s appeal to core white conservative male demographic, unless of course we get a timely sequel of American Pie starring Stifler as a proud dad.
And Gore?
26 · Vikram said
No, you have people saying that Palin is unable to practice what she preaches because what she preaches is contrary to NATURE.
24 · Vic said
Actually, I’m about as leftist as they come and my agenda is to have a harem feeding me figs and grapes while they anoint my naked body in mustard oil and fan me with peacock feathers. A man needs to relax after a long hard day pushing around flaming dumpsters, after all.
28 · Manju said
Well you know what they say about a man with a big carbon footprint…
Alan Colmes: “Did Plain take proper Pre-Natal car”
CNN: “Hey, won’t Palin be neglecting her Down’s syndrome baby?”
Ardy: “If Palin is their oh so wonderful leader and since abstinence is such a dear cause to her, how come no one cares that their leader was not even able to inspire her own daughter into espousing one of her much loved causes? How in the name of the lord is she going to lead and motivate the country?”
21 · Vikram said
Wrong election dude! Maybe 2000 was your favorite year since Bush won, but it’s now 2008 and Gore is not running!
No one should be judging whether or not Palin is fit to be VP based on something her daughter did. What they are saying is if someone like her, who is supposedly this fantastic leader with extremely strong values and emphasis on abstinence, is not able to keep her daughter from becoming pregnant, then perhaps the sex-ed policies she advocates do not work. And I think that’s a fair point and a discussion that should take place. What does the Right want to do? Not teach kids about sex, hope they won’t do it and then “make the best of it” when they end up pregnant? Or get real and teach kids about contraception in schools, even if it means acknowledging that gasp teenagers have sex?
34 · SpottieOttieDopaliscious said
TEENAGERS HAVE TEH SECKS?!
faints
Um… and how is that different from say Gore ? Am sure he wasn’t telling his son to go out and drink and take drugs. In his 2000 Presidential nomination speech he said :
I guess he did a great job of passing on his family’s sense of responsibility & decency to Al Jr ?
34 · SpottieOttieDopaliscious said
Exactly!
32 · Manju said
Oh, ok, I thought you were just talking about this thread, in which case Ardy’s would be the only relevant quote, and I don’t disagree with Ardy.
Abstinence is unnatural. Palin tried to force this unnatural idea on the schoolchildren of Alaska. She failed, even within her own home.
I prefer leaders who see things as they are and use that knowledge as a foundation to build upon–not leaders who see things as they wish they were or imagine that they once were and punish us mortals for falling short of their imagination.
Kids fuck. Kids get fucked up. Kids fuck things up. So do adults. Republicans try to turn these natural, fully understandable realities into moral and political fodder. As long as we own up to our own “mistakes” (if you want to call them that) we are not being hypocrites by calling out their hypocrisy.
10 · vsc said
I’m much more confident about a program that references the penis and vagina instead of pretending that they don’t exist in unmarried people.
36 · Vikram said
Who said drugs are contrary to nature? Just like secks, people have been taking drugs for a long time–longer than there have been laws prohibiting drugs.
Again, I don’t think Al Jr. did anything immoral by getting effed up. He shouldn’t have been driving, sure, but let’s just agree to disagree because this discussion is becoming increasingly irrelevant to this thread and even less relevant to my task at hand.
39 · Nayagan said
Heteronormative!!!
28 · Manju said
No because Gore doesn’t tell people they’re going to hell. Gore doesn’t do things that get people like Matthew Shepard killed.
There are a lot of problems with Gore and celebrity cause activism in general, but a comparision between the two is ridiculous. If you want to indict Gore for something (and the rest of the American elite) one thing is how they talk about health care and environmentalism and Katrina, but ignore how their roles in American imperialism affect those things.
But peoplease don’t do it to win points in arguments, do it because you really believe in anti-imperialism 😉
Did you just say that ? Guess you’ve never had anyone close killed by a drunk driver.
41 · Harbeer said
wow, dude….you’re such a rebel, fighting those pc brigades 😉
43 · Vikram said
Did you read the part where I wrote “He shouldn’t have been driving” Mr. Smartypants? You even quoted it, genius.
okay okay…”penii and vaginas”
/Prog circle of friends appeased
44 · Dr Amnonymous said
The Harem likes it when I pay, er, lip service to the cause of the underdogs.
24 · Vic said
Where to begin. 1) Feminists fight patriarchy. That means that people (women and others) shoudl not be penalized on the basis of gender as part of a social system that does so. It doesn’t mean that once a woman gets a position of power, that means that all feminists have to support here. When Indira Gandhi was promoting mass sterilizations of the poor, do you think that was a feminist position? When Condoleeza Rice promotes the bombing of women in Iraq, do you think that is a feminist position? No. They are either irrelevant or even opposed to feminism because they are either irrelevant or specifically FOR patriarchy, even though they’re actions taken by women.
What is more interesting is judging reactions to these women. An attack on a powerful women will OFTEN have sexist elements to it – it would be surprising if it didn’t, at least at the level of the language used or the topics that are discussed. And there will be and are, I’m sure, plenty of sexist attacks on Palin. However, the fact remains that in addition to those sexist attacks, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms of her – far more than are warranted. What the pregnancy thing demonstrates is not that Palin’s daughter is a bad person (in fact, I’m kind of impressed that she has sex despite her mother’s attitudes), it is somewhat that this might reveal to an extent how untenable Sarah Palin’s philosophy on sex education is in practice and it makes me worry about the politicization of her family and especially her daugther’s choices – i hope that this girl isn’t having a baby and a marriage for the sake of her mother’s career. What it most defnitely reveals is that McCain did a thoroughly pathetic job of actually vetting a vice presidential candidate or has exceptionally poor judgement in choosing one. And THAT is why this matters.
Why don’t you simply agree that people’s family’s are off limits, at least in the kidns of shallow partisan attacks you’re making. These people did nothing to tie themselves to their celebrity family members most of the time and should be left alone. The Rezko thing is a real issue, but if you want to start comparing who has more corporate ties and corruption, I suggest you start with Keating 5 McCain.
“Oh and off-topic: What exactly is the desi angle on this post? Not that I mind, of course.”
dunno, maybe that we’re the last group standing that can’t imagine this happening to them?. I joked to my father this morning, that if he had been the vp pick when I was 16, there would have been no pictures of me carousing with alcohol, nor would I have been pregnant.
I’m glad to be getting coverage from the convention — but am hoping for a more personal take. I can read what Dobson is saying (if I cared) from lots of other sources. Good luck with the reporting Mallika.
47 · Harbeer said
Yeah I hope they unionize one day and part of their demands are that you go through a feminist education course.