Mindy Kaling, who writes for and acts on the NBC show The Office, recently revealed to David Letterman a secret that many Indian Americans guard very closely. Not all of us are good at imitating an Indian accent just because our parents are Indian [via Defamer]:
<
p>
That’s right, we may not do Indian accents well…but no other ethnic group should be able to point that out without an indignant tongue-lashing back 
If you want to skip the rest of the interview then start at 1:30 min mark. I can really sympathize with Mindy. When I try to do an Indian accent I sound slightly Scottish. Its just sad.
wha!! i have vision of people in spleather and whips eating toast.
well… try the french way for saying ‘oui’… start by saying ooooooooooooooooo.. then you go eeeeeeeeeeeeeee… the moment when you transition from ooo to eee… that’s the pure ‘w’ sound. now you go oooooooooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeeee ooooooooooooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeee oooooooooooooo eeeeeeeee until the guy in the next cubicle calls in security. go on. try it.
the ‘v’ sound is ‘w’ with aspiration – a strong exhalation of air. interestingly, i wasnt avare of the nugget belove until i viki’ed aspiration.
she is so funny.. Why is her body language screwed up.
99 · Manvantara said
try saying the “w” sound, but also keep your front teeth on your bottom lip. you should be able to get that “v” through.
Even and only is PG.
15 · rajendran from rajapalayam speaking said
11 · Harbeer said
This is soooooooooo funny!
for an example of a mallu accent
check
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_7OhKUYV5c&feature=PlayList&p=5A9CB11443618ED4&index=0
other accents can be found (bengali, punjabi, tamilian etc) at
http://www.youtube.com/profile_play_list?user=nptelhrd
Ah, did I need a little Mindy Kaling in my life right now. That was a great interview. She deflected some of the more uninformed things Letterman said (i.e. ‘when you moved here’ though she has no accent, and he probably has it written in his cards that she was born in the US) with grace. On the other hand, it bums me out that Tina Fey required Kaling to fake an accent for the movie. One of the (many, many) things I adore about 30Rock is the inclusion of an ABD (I think it’s Maulik Pancholy) who has no accent and no continuous references to his ethnic background.
Anyway, my feigned accent is proportionally horrible to how pressured I am at the moment. I have never reacted well to “do that accent, it’s hilarious!” But I fully support lifting English quotes from Bollywood movies in Hinglish accents- because that is just all-around good times.
Sorry if I came of a bit angry in my previous posts, but the substance of what I said remains valid. If some of the obvious mockery above of the accent-diverse had instead been applied to, say, gays or African Americans, you would have had commenters here descending on the poster like a ton of bricks (and this has happened). And Anna, this blog I believe was not “initially†intended for gays or AAs too? Maybe SM needs the white liberal elite to officially certify mockery of accent diversity to be politically incorrect to accept what common sense and common decency should have told them already.
To the guy who told me lighten up, try calling a gay a faggot and then tell him to lighten up! You are mocking a part of me that is different from you, and then asking me to lighten up. And no, ABDs mocking the Indian accent is not “self-deprecatory†in any way. An Indian mocking another with a similar accent may be that, but not an ABD mocking an Indian about an accent he does not share.
I grew up with only Malayalam for the first seven years of my life. That has instilled certain inflections into my phonetics that are hard to change. If I am careful, I can keep the hard consonants hard, but often I am not, and my apparently eminently mockable accent slips in. When you do that, you mock a whole personal history, a whole way of living, talking, loving and yes, I choose to be offended by that. A lot of “DBDâ€s are not aware or do not care, but I do and I think I have a right to.
A common descriptor for Indians from India in the comments section here is FOB, which I feel is pretty derogatory. Even though the white liberal police has already banned that (newsflash?- check wikipedia), the otherwise trigger happy SM intern always gives that a free pass. Maybe using patently derogatory language against Indian born Indians does not violate the commenting policy.
Most ABDs, I have realized over the years, are aware of the Indian accent as part of an upbringing they are secretly ashamed of (this has been my perception and I am sorry if this sounds too general; this is true about “Asian†Americans too, otoh American born Hispanics embrace their heritage with gusto). To the person who feels that I have an inferiority complex, maybe you feel that I SHOULD have an inferiority complex. Sorry to disappoint you.
Sorry to make this a slanging match but it is all just to reinforce a very American point: treat others with respect, even if they are different from you (and even if you think that difference is trivial).
P.S. : SM intern- you may delete this post if you honestly think it does not add value to the debate here.
Over and out.
As someone who used to speak in an Indian accent (or whatever the hell it is that desis in the Gulf speak), I totally feel your pain. I moved to the US when I was eleven and I was able to change my accent in a year and a half, but the only thing standing between me and a complete American accent was that tricky v/w sound. The worst part was the I didn’t even know that there was a difference until I was reading harry potter and I couldn’t say “Unbreakable Vow”, I kept saying “wow”, and I couldn’t hear the difference. I did speech team in high school, and I unfortunately had to do a speech which contained a lot of “women” and “voters”, so I sat myself down and repeatedly listened to people say the two words. I still slip sometimes, but I’ve been pretty good with it.
Also, my mother speaks in a Malayali accent and I personally think it’s a very soft, nice sounding accent. I agree with annoyed on how Indian accents seem to get mocked (in tone, if not outright) on SM. I think it kind of mean and childish, especially in people who aren’t capable of switching accents themselves. Funnily enough, Bollywood seems to think S. Indian accents are mockable, but they aren’t really the most PC people in the world.
And for the people who remarked on how Indians try to change their accents, it’s a survival instinct and the more you sound like someone, the more they’ll trust you. Simple as that.
Annoyed, What the hell are you talking about? The posters on this site use the term DBD not FOB (unless they are making a specific contextual point). We can’t police every single comment on this site as we all have real lives. In addition, I am still at a total loss to what comment(s) you find insulting on this thread? Perhaps you can email me and explain better.
Since “Desh” word is very much used by Bengalis.
my parents use the term “beedeshi” for foreigners. in bangladesh of course this can apply to someone from across the river.
93: “The desi accent is particularly intense and difficult to understand. Let’s face it.”
–Heh, haven’t you heard people from China speak English?! I work in the IT department of a big phone company and of the 30 people in the team I work in, about 12 are from China, 12 from India and the rest are local (mid-western) people. It took me several months to fully understand what the Chinese were saying and this was regarding our work (not a new subject for me). On phone meetings, even now (after close to 6 years at work) I have trouble understanding all the words and usually understand stuff from the context.
110 – Ah, finally someone who understands… 🙂
Having been on both sides, so to speak, you are able to understand or “feel the pain”.
11 is an interesting age to make the move – you still had the time to make the complete switch (in accent). A friend of mine came here when she was 16 and now, at 26, is still a bit lost. 😀
As a DBD, I do understand where some of the DBD posters here are coming from when they feel hurt about their accents being made fun of. I have had many ABD children hear some words I utter and then giggle uncontrollably (as children usually do), which is fine. It is when adult ABDs are condescending about a DBD’s pronunciation that it hurts. There is no need for that kind of condescension, IMHO. But DBD people, there is a difference between mocking and in being able to just make fun, without any hurtful attitude and this thread seems to be of the latter type.
In India itself, we desis have a (nasty) habit of looking down upon the English of people from other states. I suppose it is the nature of people to look down upon others for some reason or the other and accent is one on the list. Back in India, I used to be supremely confident of my English and laugh at people who pronounced “jeero” (for zero) or said “educaSon” (instead of “educaSHun”). All the confidence was shattered (for sometime) in my first week here in the mid-west, when everywhere I went, locals would ask me to repeat my request with: “…the whaaat?”. Suddently I felt like my English was completely useless.
It took me some time to realize that while my pronounciation might be different (and difficult to understand), my writing was still intact. 🙂 I have seen a lot of local people make horrible mistakes while writing (and this includes ABDs) and it has always surprised me, since most locals (and ABDs) know only one language! How many times have I seen someone’s interest being “picked” or “Your welcome”, incorrect usage of the word “lay”, confusion about where to use “me” and where to use “I”, etc!
So DBDs who feel slighted about your accent, be glad you know more than one language! That is always a good thing, I am told by experts. Don’t care much about the person who makes fun of your accent – their language horizon is very limited! 🙂
That reminds me of the quote”No one can make you feel inferior without your permission”
I do agree with how annoyed ‘feels’about the mockery of Indian accent.
Probably not all(or not the majority) of ABD’s are prone to be less-than-at-peace with the Indian culture/accent/ but I have encountered many and I would be very surprised if someone on this blog hasn’t.Hence the offense that a DBD might take at when anyone uses Indian accent for humour.
Not everyone who indulges in sardar jokes is malicious and many people think that they are merely laughing WITH you and not AT you but the fact of the matter is that some people do use sardar jokes to laugh AT you…..so feeling offended at sardarji jokes is legitimate .If you are amongst those who use the jokes to laugh WITH and not AT ,you might feel that taking offense at such humour is not legitimate because a) either you dont know people who laugh AT (ignorance…not a crime but not an excuse either)or you dont care.
If ‘annoyed’ was just one DBD amongst he could be passed off as ‘a loser who probably is not getting any'(sorry annoyed,not personal…i am sure you are….I mean getting some ,not a loser).Similarly,if there was only one ABD in the entire U.S of A with an annoying chip on his shoulders about his parents heritage,he could be ignored.
However,both the former and sadly, the latter have not an insignificant representation in their respective demographics.This is something that owners of this blog (not intentionally of course) have sometimes failed to acknowledge.
BTW, as someone else already asked, what IS an Indian accent?! There isn’t ONE, is there?! It is far too complicated – there are numerous accents that we Indians bring with us, based on what our mother-tongue is.
What does a mainstream American mean when he/she talks about an “Indian” accent? A Gujrati speaking English? Or a Punjabi speaking English?
CR #86:
Sorry, RP = received pronunciation (thanks prof. higgins #98!). Think of EVERY Hugh Grant movie, and that’s the accent I’m talking about. This is NOT the same as say, Amy Winehouse (Camden/London), or someone from Ealing (still London), or from Newcastle.
Manvantara, I always assumed the “average American” meant the Apu accent when discussing the so-called Indian accent (a truly horrific and not even close accent, btw).
Manvantara, they mean the Apu accent.
78 Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery says “Dont be naive. A more neutralized accent leads to more opportunities at work. “ .
All too true. Following that thought, it strikes me that a more “neutralized” skin color would also lead to more opportunities at work for us browns, DBD and ABD alike. Ambi SkinFair cream from India, anyone?
It’s probably my age group, but not many ABDs I’ve met have this problem with an Indian accent. In fact, my very mixed group of friends (probably due to Koffee with Karan and Bollywood) have tried to pick up my cosmopolitan (as I describe it) Indian accent. They’ve also taken to peppering their speech with Indianisms like yaar, bakwas, and it’s rocking. The kids I grew up with assume that they might have to or want to work in India at some point and often ask what the best language to learn for that is, and my recommendation is Indian English and all it’s variations. Which is why I thought that the people who are embarassed by Indian accents or think it’s hard to understand were childish, I haven’t heard that since I was in middle school. I think if you hear it often enough in society and pop culture, it doesn’t become such a huge issue anymore. David Letterman might assume that someone with brown skin is from “somewhere else”, but most people in my generation don’t.
annoyed:
I don’t think anyone is taking away your right to be offended. 🙂 Feel free to get offended.
While you are exercising your right to get offended for the perceived mocking from the ABDs for your (or rather our) accents, try to put yourself in their shoes. We did not grow up in a place where we went to school expecting other kids/teachers to ask you “where are you really from ?” if not every day, then every other day. They would have gotten mocked at just for their skin color even though they have much more in common with the other American kids. So cut them some slack. Like the commenter 11 narrates, indulging in mocking ‘Indian accents’ and making others laugh etc.. are all efforts to gel in with the “locals”.
If you are too sensitive, either you can ignore those things and move on or if you have too much time in your hands, you can spend your time feeling hurt and annoyed. Upto you.
mindy for the win.
given the context, i think this was pretty good. she took the most obvious thing, talked about it immediately, threw it out the window, and went on with the interview. the only really strategic thing to do. whether or not it was intentional, i think it was the right thing to do.
also, let’s all (DBD and ABD alike) enjoy the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSN0uAKkQd0
I was watching ‘The Namesake’ the other day and it was quite jarring to see Kal Penn open his mouth and out comes this American drawl.
I find American accents outside of the typical realm of accents one sees on sitcoms to be rather unintelligible sometimes. I’ve no problem understanding and telling apart the Brits and Aussies. White South Africans are harder to understand.
I don’t get the v/w confusion. My parents could always tell them apart. It might be a convent school thing. My grandmother insisted on sending my mother to convent school because she would learn to speak ‘proper English’.
Keeping up English is difficult if one is living in a non-English speaking country. If I don’t watch out I will lose it.
87 · SM Intern said
Don’t mean to hijack but appreciate your kind words, SM Intern.
i think that ABDs mimicking and making fun of desi accents is something many of us do amongst ourselves and not for the sake of gelling with white americans or whoever. that accent is part of my heritage because its what my parents use and is an endearing characteristic of my closest intimates. We may riff on the variations with our ABD buddies, but if anything it is a way of bonding over common experience and not meant to be malicious. if an ABD cruelly taunts you by mimicking an indian accent, that person is a jerk first and foremost, however, all mimicry isnt for that purpose.
one gets the impression from some of the DBDs on this board that there is some ABD DBD social apartheid in the USA…aren’t there so many of us who have thoroughly mixed social groups? whether it be my cousins who arrived in their 20’s for grad school, or my own classmates, or friends’ relatives, small business owners/ employees, people you interact with on the street ect. are we this divided? this hasn’t been my experience at all really…maybe its an NYC thing..ive seen desi kids who grew up in less immigrant rich areas being a bit more “allergic” to FOBS(i’ve grown up partly in such areas as well)..just a hypothesis
Did I get it right? Ms/ Mr Selvan wants us to cut some slack for people who want to mock the Indian accent to blend in?!?!
Just because there is an explanation for everything means there is an excuse for everything??
Again, I am sure majority don’t have a malice while mocking the accent … but so is the case with sardarji jokes ………
And BTW, could you please reserve the condescending ‘ oh feel free to get offended ‘ for like maybe setting boundaries for your 4 year old kid……. !
You dont say!!
Jokes apart,I dont think its important for us to forge some kind of a ‘pan-A+D BD’ identity .Life experiences are just too different( and this ‘apartheid’ is to the extent that many DBD’s find it much easier to get along with whites than other ABD’s!!).
However,it wont hurt for us to try and understand where each one is coming from.(After all,ABD’s did have to put up with DBD’s at least for the first few years of their lives , and DBD’s will have to put up with ABD rugrats sometimes in theirs!!!)
Have a Happy Wednesday everyone….
126 · rar said
i agree. just about all ABDs have had the Apu stereotype thrown at them at some point in their lives, and probably at a greater frequency than DBDs have. i’m sure most here would take offense if a non desi did that accent. Furthermore, the lack of respect is often a two way street. Many ABDs have been reminded at some point in their lives that they’re not really Indian because they speak with a funny American accent or they don’t know when Uttaranchal became Uttarakhand, etc. Bollywood stereotypes of second genners don’t help either.
sardar ji jokes are NOT the same thing as speaking with an accent. My (desi) friends and I affectionately don purposefully bad and fake “Indian” accents when talking about conversations with parents, etc., but rarely (if never) to mock a person for their language acquisition or cadence. I also take up a Southern accent when in the south and a British accent when in the UK — it’s not always intentional, but it sometimes helps fill out a story or anecdote.
I’m not discounting that plenty of people mock desi accents, and that this is often racialized (i.e., you don’t see the same contempt for a straight Brit or Aussie accent), but I don’t think it’s helpful to automatically default into an ABD v. DBD accent war.
You know, I’m sure that all accents take a mocking beating once in a while. I mean how many times have Americans made fun of British accents?
Made fun more like mimicked
nfa:
I made two comments the first one asking a commenter not to have hurt feelings
and the second one to feel free to get hurt.
I’d add another one. I don’t really care whether you are hurt or not. I don’t get hurt if someone mocks my accent. It is part of the game I signed up for and would move on. It is not a battle I’d choose to fight.
Peace. 🙂
What made you think that I thought otherwise.Was it the flowers that I gave you??
Thats very remarkable for you. Unlike many people on SM ,I have never had any problem with being singled out for airport checks.That doesnt mean I could use the ‘grow up will you’ refrain as the answer to the problem…..
what you said here
made me think that I have to offer a full list of choices
Look, any opinion from another person would look condescending if you view it in a certain angle.
Actually, I have been singled out for airport checks and I have no problem with it either. If the authorities think that people with a certain profile are likely to cause trouble and need extra checks, and the fear is based on valid reasons, I’m perfectly fine to go through extra checks. It is a small inconvenience, my goal is to reach the other side in one piece. I make the job of the security staff easy by not wearing any jacket or by making sure nothing is in my pockets to set off the alarms.
Sorry to say this, I’ll use the same ‘grow up’ argument in this case too. 🙂
Jokes apart,I dont think its important for us to forge some kind of a ‘pan-A+D BD’ identity .Life experiences are just too different( and this ‘apartheid’ is to the extent that many DBD’s find it much easier to get along with whites than other ABD’s!! it goes without saying that life experiences may have been different, but one would have to speak on behalf of a lot of DBDs to generalize whether they feel one way or another about ABDs. some of us know more DBDs than typical DBDs themselves, and if we dont get along with you it might have to do with something other than your accent or origin. ive even known some DBDs to PREFER hanging out with and identifying with ABDs. some of them were artists that didn’t feel the white collar vibe. some were city kids working service jobs who were into the same music/party scene, and some came from elite backgrounds and felt superior to the engineering crowd. its a cliche to say, but a lot of ABDs themselves feel like outsiders to the SASA crowd on their campuses, and prefer to hangout with latino, whites,blacks, koreans whoever. considering DBDs of different social backgrounds and from different regions of india often form their cliques as well, the whole idea of an ABD/DBD estrangement seems unfit for generalization..
Umm,I havent counted but its my perception that its not insignificant.
You as in me nfa or you as in generic DBD?If its the former than you are treading on assumptions(ABD’s not getting along with me or vice versa).
And you know what,I really feel stupid that at the end of the day , an otherwise entertaining post had to come down to an ABD vs DBD debate.Therez no hating involved (and in any case,my ABD girlfriend does know my handle so I do have to watch my words or risk having to do laundry again this weekend)
nfa,
didnt mean you personally, nor do i think your perception is unimportant….didnt intend to antagonize
There is clearly good natured ribbing abouth accents, ethnicities, or whatever, and then there is malicious mockery, which isn’t cool. But equating either with state supported discrimination such as profiling is ridiculous.
As an ABD who lived a DBD life during my middle years, I can relate to both sides. By the way, the “v w” confusion used to puzzle me. Why would anyone get those two wrong? Aren’t there people in India with the name Wasim? Then I realized I make some unconscious mistakes. I pronounce the Telugu word “vankaya”(eggplant) as “Wankaya”. Also, for many years, I had no idea I was mispronouncing the Ramayana. I still revert to “Rama+yana” out of habit instead of “Ramaayana”.
As far as making fun of accents, as long as it is done in a lighthearted manner, no need to get offended. If you are doing it in person to freeze out someone from having a conversation with you, then it’s not cool(I have seen that happen where the only time an ABD will talk to a DBD is to snicker at their mispronunciation of something. The whole ABD-DBD dynamic is for another thread(The DBD parents in those cases who allow such a dynamic to fester are to blame for a lot of that).
BTW,
are we really sure that SM would be a good representative sample of the American-Indian(ABD’s ,henceworth to be referred to as AI’s by me….ABD has too many consonants and requires too much effort…as does DBD….so its II’s and AI’s for me from now on) populace?
I think that the contributirs and AI readers to this blog are probably ,if anything,prone to be more empathetic and attuned to the II cause than an average AI would be(considering their non-rejection of just an “A” identity and kinda sorta taking pride in a hyphenated identity).
I was just curious,not antagonized, so you are good…..!
122 · Ponniyin Selvan said
I am the commenter in #11 and you are oversimplifying. The “locals” were Indian-, Pakistani-, Vietnamese-, Korean-, Mexican-, Salvadoran-, African-, Italian-, Irish-, Polish-, and all kinds of other hyphen-Americans.
“Annoyed,” I am the guy who told you both to “lighten up” and get over your inferiority complex. Please spare me your saccharine self-righteous sanctimony. My sisters and I never spoke Punjabi with our parents because they’d get all condescending and tell us how cute we sounded as they mocked the most minor slips in our American inflected Punjabi. Nobody is mocking anybody on this thread even as close to as bad as the mockery can get (on “both” sides). Years later, I sometimes have native Punjabi-speakers express surprise when I tell them that I am not a native speaker because my thait, pehndu Ambarsaria accent sounds so authentic. (This is not to say that I don’t catch myself making errors in pronunciation, because I do, especially when I’m out of practice, and I assume that I’m making plenty of errors that are slipping past my ear as well.)
I don’t think you “should” have an inferiority complex, but I don’t feel the need to indulge it, either. I don’t want you to have hurt feelings, but I think you’re actually looking for something to be hurt about on this thread, because it’s just not there.
139 · cavity search said
Word.
130 · Camille said
Thank you.
Right, I don’t think I ever defined “locals” to exclude the above mentioned. and no I’m not over simplifying. There is a reason why you tried fake Indian accent than the accent from any of the above mentioned groups, isn’t it?.
143 · Ponniyin Selvan said
Yeah, because the incongruity between my appearance and my accent can make for comic gold. I used to wear a turban back then, too. I suppose it would be feasible that I could have a Hong Kong accent, but Vietnamese or Polish would be a stretch, don’t you think?
I grew up in Houston, Texas and worked hard to lose any vestige of a Southern accent because I didn’t want to sound like the morons around me. I didn’t use the word “y’all” for a long time. I suppose I’ve got a bit of a self-hating Southerner inferiority complex, myself, about sounding like a country bumpkin (even though I sound like a bumpkin when speaking Punjabi).
You know what’s really funny? My mother (and all her Desi nursing peers) work with a lot of African Americans so their English sounds like a Desi-accented Ebonics. Now THAT is comic gold.
Maybe you meant ‘sardarji jokes are not the same thing as making fun of someone because of his accent’.
And calling someone a ‘fucking terrorist’ is not the same as sardarji jokes either.Does that mean we start condoning the latter?
That’s very reassuring to know.
Hwoever,there are enough such people everywhere(Houston included!) for it to be an irritating ssociological trend(just as its becoming an irrtating trend amongst DBD’s to flount Indias recent economic clout to justify or use as a shield all that goes on back in the des).
when i want to sound like a doofus who doesn’t know what he’s talking about, i usually do a Brooklyn Italian-american accent, as in joey tribbiani’s “how you doin’.” in retrospect, its racist and classist, especially considering richard feynman had the same accent.
murry gell-mann always suspected feynman exaggerated his accent in protest of the academic affectation so common at princeton (but interestingly, not MIT), practising a reverse classism.
145 · nfa said
Which is just another reason why Sunil’s story is so great.
Also, I don’t think this is a new thing–it has been going on forever–so I dispute your characterizing it as a “trend.” My relatives in Ambarsar (read “Amritsar”) point out the different accents of Doabis and Malwais all the time.
Aren’t there better things to get upset about?
aren’t there better things to get upset about??
Of course , let’s start with the fact that Eduardo turned out to be such a wimp and ruined all my plans for a hurricane party…
I don’t really care about accents and really feel it is beneficial, like someone else pointed out earlier, to use the accent of your cohort. I’m not a big fan of multiculturalism…anywhere…
I would appreciate it though, if people on the other end of the line at Citibank or ATT or wherever, would respond in Hindi when I use it coz I can’t understand them sometimes with the “neutral” accent.
I do understand why several people here and everywhere do take offense when Americans with Indian ancestors make fun of their accents. It should be obvious, and I don’t know why there is argument over it. In case of DBDs (as people here designate) it is seen as the issuance of a license to “go ahead and make fun of them, we don’t care coz we do it too.” As much as many of you don’t identify your generation with DBD’s (maybe rightfully so) many people do, specially in college where most DBD’s these days are getting their first exposure to American culture.
149 · RahulD said
Why do you assume that they know Hindi? There’s plenty of people in India who don’t speak Hindi.