172 thoughts on “A South Asian American Agenda?”

1. Amardeep, I think it would be good to add some context. It took me a while to figure out what it set out to achieve. From the publication –

   The National Coalition of South Asian Organizations (NCSO) presents the National Action Agenda in order to (1) raise awareness about the needs of South Asians in the United States; (2) insert issues affecting South Asians into local, state, and national dialogues; (3) guide future policy recommendations; (4) increase public understanding of the depth and scope of our community’s needs; and (5) enhance ongoing and future advocacy, organizing, and educational efforts.

2. or major disagreements?

   it’s left-liberal. left-liberal brownz, i.e., most brownz, should support it. non-left-liberal brownz should oppose it because it is opposed to their political orientation.

3. btw, i’ve said this before, but i’ll say it again: you’ll never have an indian american (let’s be honest, that’s what we’re talking about here) lobby like a cuban american lobby or jewish american lobby because indian is too f**king important. kant be left to a lobby, OK? brownland matters for the red-white-and-blue, not just the brown….

4. read most of the PDF. this center-right brown can endorse a lot of the stuff; e.g., data collection. not a lot of the other stuff. i have no issues with a lot of the LGBTA material, who you love or do is your biz, but a lot of people have moral issues with that. shrug at least ‘pass the roti on the left hand side’ doesn’t try to hide it’s ultimate political agenda….

   (and yeah, i disagree with abhi that brownz can really organize outside of a few narrow areas)

5. What do we have in common with ABCDs? ABCDs are interested in us so they can feel superior and if they can’t find someone willing to marry them, they can condescend to pick one a little more Westernized (civilized) than the rest of us.

   FOBs have different political agendas than ABCDs. I saw this in grad school. The ABCDs use the ISAs for hooking up and for phony Bollywoodish things they consider as Indian culture and FOBs were more interested in simpler things like helping out new grad students learn the ropes.

6. I also personally strongly support the subheader on Gender Equity:

   Gender Equity: Advance gender equity within the South Asian community
   • Support programs aimed to address and prevent gender-based violence within the South Asian community
   • Support programs that provide linguistically accessible and culturally appropriate services for South Asian domestic violence survivors
   • Support policies that protect and empower immigrant domestic violence survivors
   • Support immigration policies that protect and empower dependent visa holders
   • Strengthen policies aimed to prevent all forms of trafficking and provide meaningful resources to survivors
   • Develop policies aimed at curbing transnational abandonment of spouses
   • Increase culturally and linguistically appropriate health services for South Asian women
   • Promote programs and policies that foster the economic empowerment of South Asian women</i>
   

   Good luck with that. I think 15-20 years from now, you will see people in the south asian community in the west talking about the same issues with very little being done. I can not image how tough it is to be a south asian women living between two cultures and having to deal with all these issues.

7. whats wrong with using cultural organizations to hook up? if you made friends with one those phony abcds they might have helped you learn the ropes a lot faster than from another fob who arrived two years before you.

8. We, who were already there and knew the ropes, were interested in helping out new arrivals to the country. This was not on their agenda. Their agenda was to party. I did not call them phony. I said they were into phony Indian culture. Finally, we split. They had their parties and we organized pickups from airports and temporary accomodations.

   I would say FOBs need to organize themselves to look after their interests. ABCDs have their own distinct agendas that are often in opposition to FOB interests.

   How many FOBs do you have blogging for Sepia Mutiny? How can you talk about a unified South Asian agenda?

9. I myself stayed at some FOB’s place for a week, who I had never met before and became a very good friend and some dozens of FOBs stayed at my apartment in subsequent years. I have cooked for dozens of strangers, many of whom I don’t even remember.

   This is not a boast. FOBs look after FOBs. We depend on the kindness of our poor unsophisticated fellow FOBs.

10. Is it possible to ever release one of these things without intimating that it is lifetime gov’t employees and fickle congressman upon whom we must depend in order to achieve any of these objectives? If you want institutions that serve you, sometimes you have to build them from the ground up (like the george mason law school).

    Also, can the section on civil liberties ever be accepted by a left-leaning crowd without references to thought-crimes (anti-bias, hate-crimes legislation–what you think dotbusters have the relevant sentencing guidelines on instant recall while mauling you? What kind of deterrence is that?), and anti-1st Amendment laws? I can understand barring propagandists from places like dining halls on college campuses, but everywhere? No, that’s not my America and probably the major reason I can’t fully get behind this proposal.

    I have to remain agnostic on the expanded data collection question, but that’s because the proposal doesn’t contain specifics–the questions asked on testing material in Australia was incredibly specific (with respect to language spoken at home) and nationality, but i never saw studies linking it to heightened efficiency in the delivering of social services/immigration services.

    as for specifics, can we finally drop the requirement that visa applicants show sufficient economic ties to their home country–I had a relative, who has been a professional carnatic singer for most of his life, get denied 3 years in a row and the only explanation we got is that because of his profession, he was deemed inadequately tied to Blighty. (or perhaps they were afraid of his razor-sharp gamakas).

11. Preserve voting rights of South Asians by eliminating voter intimidation and suppression…

    …in the sub-continent or in the US?!! Never heard of a single case of a desi being intimidated or suppressed at the voting booth in the US.

    M. Nam

12. 3 · razib said

    btw, i’ve said this before, but i’ll say it again: you’ll never have an indian american (let’s be honest, that’s what we’re talking about here) lobby like a cuban american lobby or jewish american lobby because indian is too f**king important. kant be left to a lobby, OK? brownland matters for the red-white-and-blue, not just the brown….

    I think I understand what you’re saying here, but could you please elaborate a bit?

13. Ensure limited English proficient citizens’ access to the right to vote

    Don’t most if not all indians speak english?

    More broadly, this agenda could be adopted by La Raza without changing a word. What makes it so South Asian specific?

14. [quote ———————————] I would say FOBs need to organize themselves to look after their interests. ABCDs have their own distinct agendas that are often in opposition to FOB interests.

    How many FOBs do you have blogging for Sepia Mutiny? How can you talk about a unified South Asian agenda? [—————————–end quote]

    Brownfob’s comments may seem crude but they are somewhat correct.

    1. Most of the new immigrants (DBDs) have stronger ties to their Motherland (say India), this does not apply to ABDs.

    2. Most of these new ‘immigrants’ have completed the ” F1->H1->GC->American Citizen” journey (or they are in the process) things that ABDs do not and cannot appreciate. This makes a huge difference e.g. “real” path of an Indian and a Sri Lankan towards a GC is different (same immigration rules may apply but there are a lot many Indians than Sri Lankans in the queue – the dreaded ‘Priority Date’)

    3. ABDs like to visualize “South Asians” as one group primarily because this way they see a larger group and there obvious advantages in numbers. I cannot think of any other reason. (Unlike South Asians most of the Latino’s (even 2nd gen) have a common language and a common religion)

    4. ABD’s (or South Asian Americans) are just about as knowledgeable about South Asia as African Americans are about Africa. Most of them have little or no idea about the politics of that region, whatever little they is know is from western press reports or some (pseudo) intellectual blog .

       One reason why (Jews) Isreali- Americans (AJC and others) do not merge in to a “Middle-Eastern American Association” along with their middle eastern counterparts (Americans of Palestinian/Syrian/Egyptian origin).

    5. East Indian Americans are larger in numbers and they are beginning to assert themselves to an extent in Washington, (I think) they believe that they can push their message/agenda without a ‘South Asian Partner’.

    [ quote —————————–] one finds three Sikh advocacy groups endorsing the agenda (SALDEF, Sikh Coalition, and United Sikhs), but not, as far as I can tell, any groups that are specifically oriented to advocacy for Hindus, Muslims, Jains, or Desi Christians [ end quote ————————]

     I am surprised that SALDEF, Sikh Coalition and United Sikhs have endorsed this agenda. It may be that leaders of these association do not have an bias towards an East-Indian-American agenda.
    

15. I would say FOBs need to organize themselves to look after their interests. ABCDs have their own distinct agendas that are often in opposition to FOB interests.

    examples?

16. 5 · brownfob said

    What do we have in common with ABCDs? ABCDs are interested in us so they can feel superior and if they can’t find someone willing to marry them, they can condescend to pick one a little more Westernized (civilized) than the rest of us. FOBs have different political agendas than ABCDs. I saw this in grad school. The ABCDs use the ISAs for hooking up and for phony Bollywoodish things they consider as Indian culture and FOBs were more interested in simpler things like helping out new grad students learn the ropes.

    BrownFOB,

    Bhaiji, please do not try to universalize your experience with ABCDs. When I came to this country in 1975 at the age of seven I could count the number of other desis I saw on my fingers. Now over the course of time there are more than a million in this country (USA). I’m sure that many or more exist in Canada as well.

    Let me get to my point. I feel like I’m more in between either ABCDs or FOB as I was neither born here nor had I grown up in India. Therefore I hope to give you an impartial view. Most FOB I met were either graduate students or PHd candidates so your level of maturity may have been higher than a typical ABCD who was perhaps just starting college or getting ready to finish their undergraduate degree.

    As these ABCDs grow older they will mature and through the life process they will eventually realize that they are neither superior to you nor are they inferior, just another desi with an American accent. You also need to realize this and not look at every ABCD as your enemy. I know this from first hand experience as I am married to an FOB, who I love very much and she isn’t more or less civilized than me.

    Kudos to you for helping incoming Indian graduate students assimilates into your college campus. Most ABCDs can’t get up at 4 a.m. in the morning and drive 400 miles to pick up a stranger they have never met. However I also made many friends at college who were FOBs and I invited them to my house to study and have food and they in return reciprocated. I learned simple things from them such as caring for others, sharing your resources etc. They learned from me an ability to clean toilets, bathtubs and other things without thinking it was bad.

    I am glad that you blog here. Trust me no gora, kala, chini, etc. thinks when he sees either you or me as being different. You and I know this isn’t true that but they don’t. So let’s try to find some common ground. Smile, I can respect you and hopefully you can respect me. Sorry for the long philosophical tirade.

    Peace Bhai and pass the roti & lassi.

17. Thanks for that comment, Desi-Like-You. I think that should be everyone’s philosophy, whether we are DBD’s like me or ABD’s like Amarjeet, Razib, etc, or in-between like you. We do need to learn from each other and I, for one, have learnt a lot from my interactions with ABD’s. All those years ago, when I came here as a twenty-four old grad student, I found that many ABD’s were struggling to reconcile their parents’ very traditional ways, and idealization of “Indian values” with the reality around them. I like to think that I helped some of them realize that it was possible to eat dal-chawal and still be “modern” in the only place it matters – in your head. And they introduced me to Apache Indian (there, that dates me), Mexican food, sushi, taught me how to eat with chopsticks, etc, in other words made my interactions with the larger American world easier. So unlike brownFOB, I did not come to the conclusion that ABD’s were spoilt, immature brats with an inflated sense of entitlement.

    Having said that, it is also true, that ABD’s and DBD’s definitions of independence are different. For most DBD’s, living in America is the first experience of having to make financial decisions on your own for the very first time. Here, there is no Mummy or Daddy to back you up if the bank account is running low, unless you come from a super wealthy background which most of us do not. So one tends to grow up pretty quickly here. It is a good feeling to know that you can take care of yourself on a student stipend (and stipend only, as foreign students are not allowed to work off-campus or claim food stamps or any other benefits), pay your bills and taxes, etc., without input from overprotective parents. So next time you see a DBD grad student picking through the piles of clothing at Target, do consider the circumstances, instead of dismissing them as cheap. This is why DBD’s tend to concentrate on practical help – like airport runs, temp accomodation, showing newcomers the ropes, etc. For ABD’s the assertion of identity is a more fraught issue than it is for DBD’s and for many of them, it stays a lifelong one. And DBD’s should be supportive of ABD’s efforts to deal with identity issues, not dismiss them as trivial and superficial self-indulgence. A “big tent” political approach will allow everyone’s issues to be tabled and discussed. As Desi-like-you puts it, it’s all about learning from each other and thinking of ourselves as “we” rather than as “us” versus “them.”

18. The only point here that seems questionable to me might be “Eliminate xenophobic comments against South Asians… in political discourse.” I’m not sure how that could ever be made to happen, so why put it on an agenda?

    I disagree. At the risk of taking ourselves too seriously, the community can sensitize the public about xenophobia, when used in political discourse. Obama’s “D-Punjab” gaffe being a good example. I think the goal could have been better stated.

19. examples?

    ABDs view the political process primarily through the prism of racism whereas, DBDs view the political process as a means to vote for the candidate of their choice.

20. I think the point that brownfob is making about the differences between fobs and abds is one that is essentially about authenticity. It is a question of who really defines the true Desi experience. The immigrant from the motherland struggling to make it shopping and picking up other fobs at 430am or the American born desi who is also struggling to make it in terms of negotiating her multiple and fractured identities. And who says that the new immigrant is not contending with multiple identities as well? When authenticity is up in the air, I think the question of a South Asian political agenda becomes challenging and exciting. How can we define and agree on the issues that affect all of us. To be a successful political campaign can everything under the stars be on that agenda? But moreover, who decides who is a South Asian? I do not know if it necessarily serves us well as a community (then again what is a community) to fight amongst ourselves especially in terms of a political agenda.

    I myself am very confused most of the time. I was born in INdia and moved here at a relatively young age and constantly feel conflicted because I don’t just see my identity as Indian and American. Wrapped in it are the identities of woman, political activist, mother, environmentalist etc.

21. What do wealthy 2nd gen suburban doctors, for instance, really have in common politically with recent immigrants working as shopkeepers and taxi drivers in ethnic enclaves in the inner city? It’s a difficult question to answer, though that doesn’t mean it’s not worth trying to answer it.

    I don’t know how far political sphere is affected by the cultural sphere and vice versa. But one thing is more-or-less certain- any naturalized desi American citizen who has had his share of living/growing in India can never completely think in terms of a pan-Indian identity/agenda let alone a pan-South Asian agenda/identity. There is too much difference and diversity within India and the sub-continent. Now whether having assimilated/ become American citizen, how far should he or she change his thinking of India/South-Asia ? Diametrically opposed to this is the fact that a pan Indian/pan-South Asian agenda is more suited for “native desis” and maybe even for greater political influence like Jews or African-Americans.

22. 17 · Sharmishtha said

    So next time you see a DBD grad student picking through the piles of clothing at Target

    Target? That’s posh. How about Salvation Army? Not for Halloween costumes but for a decent coat for those terribly harsh NorthEast and MidWest winters? My classmate got his from an American classmate who happened to be there shopping for a costume.

    Instances of understanding, kindness, incomprehension, insensitivity are too numerous for any generalization. Let’s say I have found help when I needed it.

23. I think I understand what you’re saying here, but could you please elaborate a bit?

    re: india & geopolitics vs. cuba & israel. india is too important to leave to an indian american lobby, so the analogy with the cuban or israeli lobby isn’t working. i know that a lot of americans (jews, muslims, evangelicals) think israel-palestine is SUPER important. actually, it’s important cuz its important to them, not because israel REALLY matters. what matters in the middle east is the persian gulf with its oil. as for cuba, no one cares but cubans and cuban americans.

    an analogy would be if russia had left its relations with germany up to the volga germans.

24. but not, as far as I can tell, any groups that are specifically oriented to advocacy for Hindus, Muslims, Jains, or Desi Christians.

    You are right about not explicitly doing so, but the progressive groups certainly have a certain way of defining and explaining victimhood.

    I like what SAALT does at a local level, they are for the most part decent people. But as far as creating a coherent “South Asian” agenda goes, I know this means that Indians will have to defer to Pakistanis and Bangladeshis on all matters.

25. ABD’s (or South Asian Americans) are just about as knowledgeable about South Asia as African Americans are about Africa.

    a lot of the criticisms of ABDs are probably valid, but isn’t this just dumb? i mean, come on, ABDs were/are almost all raised by immigrant parents. the DBD at the salvation army was our parent!

26. I know this means that Indians will have to defer to Pakistanis and Bangladeshis on all matters.

    just find a group which has more victimhood creds that can be your sock-puppet; identitarian problem solved 😉

27. Adding to the fracturization (is that a word) of the immigrant experience is that there is another class of DBDs. THere are DBDs like me who have immigrated into the country for work, not for studies. Most of us tend to be older, many of us usually come here with family in tow. ALmost all of us have been working in Desh before coming here, so we have a better sense of independence (and responsibility). In some ways it is more difficult for us, because we don;t have access to a support network that college students have. In some ways, it is easier for us, because we tend to come into (relatively) well-paying jobs, and tend to be more solvent than college students. Also, going from having a job in India to having a job in US is not as much of a culture shock as going from being dependent on your parents in India to being totally on your own in the US. In some ways, it is totally different for us, because many of us have wife and kids back home.

28. Let’s lay off on the generalizations on ABD and DBDs. There are DBDs who come from affluent Westernized backgrounds who fit in more with ABDs who go to prep schools as far as social mores go. There are ABDs who do work study, are cost conscious and have more in common with DBDs of moderate means. Most DBDs are coming with 100x more background knowledge on how to get by than my parents had when they came here in the 60s.

29. you have to live in a freakin cocoon to think this is an agenda that’ll create solidarity among various south asian communities. there’s not even an attempt to embrace the diversity that is desi outside of that diversity palpable to progressives trained in, may i say, western theories of social justice. and in the same breath they’ll probably label jindal white-washed.

    So they want to eliminating voter intimidation and suppression but no desire to end voter fraud by groups like ACORN, that dilute our hard earned vote. they want to ensure a decent wage w/o a word for the desi 7-11 owner who must provide it. tenets right are important but not property rights. yeah, desis don’t aspire to own property and came here for freedom right, not money. they want access to credit but not a word for what that’ll do to the models of all the desi analysts on wall street who provide the credit in the first place.

    look, outside of a few issues related to equal protection under the law, identity politics make little sense, and can be very divisive among not only different identities but also within them. why fan the primitive flames? and even when the issue does involve equal protection under the law, like say the nikita rau race-based quota case, progressives jump in and ask us not to question their identity b/c they believe in social justice even at the expense of a fellow desi. fine, but please show the rest of us the very same respect for which you ask.

30. but please show the rest of us the very same respect for which you ask.

    if you’re part of the hegemonic power structure you don’t deserve respect! hate speech is not free speech; and freedom to be illiberal is not freedom at all! or something.

31. “South Asian Americans Leading Together”

    India has a sadomasochistic desire to associate with concepts that don’t want to associate themselves with it. This trend seems to have carried over to Indians/people of (or who want to be associated with their) Indian origins. This concept of South Asia that these (we) people have is absent from the schemas of most other South Asians.

    Pakistan and Pakistanis go to great lengths, towards asserting their identity independent of India…”eweryone vas on wacation” “ve vere inwited, punch vas serwed” mentality. Jinnah is referred to being born in Sindh, all Pakistani Muslims came from Turkey, the Mohajirs came from Muslim kingdoms so on and so forth.

    The Bangladeshis believe that Mukti Bahini rose up and defeated all the West Pakistani oppressors through sheer strength of will and superior military tactics, by themselves. India had “military observers” and the bloody telegram never happened.

    When Pakistan “lost” to Bangladesh in cricket Wasim Akram and later the PCB said, “today we lost to our brothers, we are happy for them”. I wonder when if ever such a statement was made towards India. Yet India opens up its borders, issues Visas, subsidizes travel and offers up places that need to be demolished to the last brick as “gestures of goodwill”, to establish Pakistani and Bangladeshi embassies in Bombay so that they can actually provide even more fertile grounds for the ISI. All in the name of “South Asian” solidarity.

    Another example of this “South Asian” goodwill, was evident at my university. The Indian population here is thriving, so the ISA is extremely active. However, the ISA was filled with stinky, accented Desis…yech! – so the Americans who have ancestors of Indian Origin, established the “South Asian Student Association” to promote South Asian Values (yea, I did an Anthony Bourdain and went “doesn’t South Asia have many countries?”) They had 1 non-Hindu, non-South-Asian-whose-ancestors-are-of-Indian-origin and that was the Korean girlfriend of one of the guys.

    The Indian Commerce ministry offers subsidies to China, which reciprocates by flooding the Indian market with substandard goods. India’s foreign delegates throw their weight behind China and they are rewarded by China blocking India’s Security Council seat. Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai worked out great the last time.

    Stick to being American instead of finding a contemporary Osmanlikh that does not exist.

32. Another “progressive” group which plans to take money from the community and betray its interests.

33. This concept of South Asia at least in the university campuses across North America is entirely bogus. I am summing up from my life experience as a Graduate Student in a couple of North American Universities. Muslim students from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh wholeheartedly join the Muslim Students Association. Non Muslim Students from India, if they are in sufficient numbers, join to form the Indian Students Association. Indian Students of US Origin definitely do not want to be associated with the Indian Students Association patronized by students from India. To keep their identity separate they congregate to form the South Asian Students Association. Surprisingly in both the universities where I studied, I did not find a single Pakistani or Bangladeshi student in the South Asian Student Association. To me the very concept of South Asia is to deny the “Indian” identity. American born students of Indian Origin probably are ashamed to be associated with land of “snake charmers”, and that is why they want to identify themselves as South Asians. However other communities such as the Filipina , the Vietnamese, the Chinese, the Iranians, etc join their respective associations irrespective of their country of origin. That is Vietnamese from Vietnam and Vietnamese from America together constitute and run the Vietnamese association. The same applies to the Chinese and other Asian communities. The only time Pakistanis and Bangladeshis use the term “South Asia” is whenever they want to deny any credit to India, as in South Asian Movies , South Asian Dances, South Asian Religions etc. Sometimes they also use South Asia to masquerade their internal issues and problems. As for the Indian Students of US origin, the less said the better.

34. a few points

    1) “south asian” vs. “indian”, etc., talked about 9,999 times so far on this blog, just in case the newbies think they’re being original (not an aspersion, just saying the arguments are pretty much set).

    2) i think “indian” and “south asian” are kind of like “white” and “american.” IOW, the fact that indian american kids populate south asian groups is probably less about shame about india than a confidence and latitudinarianism that comes from being descended from people who come form the dominant south asian country and pretty define south asia in the minds of many.

    3) i think the point that many muslims aren’t as into being south asian is totally true. i’ve heard pakistani americans complain that they want to be thought of as muslim americans, not as asian americans. re: #2, i think some of the distance by bangladeshi or pakistanis vis-a-vis south asian groups is that the latter are going to naturally be dominated by indian americans cuz about 90% of americans of south asian descent are indian americans.

    4) the proper analogy for south asian student unions are asian pacific american associations; there you have 2nd and 3rd and 4th gene east asians dominant, and japanese and chinese american kids think of themselves as having a lot in common as asian americans. obviously their parents might not be as sanguine about such associations.

35. re: #4, assuming parents are immigrants. not as common for japanese americans obviously, who are mostly a 3rd gen on up community now.

36. I can get behind the entirety of that agenda, but then again, I am also in favor of gender equality and economic justice for all Americans, not just desi immigrants. It’s a pretty left-leaning agenda, though, and I’d be surprised if some of the wealthier (more likely to lean libertarian or conservative) communities could agree with it.

37. Most SASAs have a cool, reefer loving Sufi bon vivant from Pakistan that they can use to bolster their SA cred. This guy, let’s call him Rumi Ganjawallah, is OK in my book. But he sure as hell isn’t a bridge between Indians and Pakistanis. He’s a refugee.

38. newbies!…e-penis?

    To go through the comments on every post on this blog is possible, thanks to the nifty design of the programmers. But why cannot an opinion be restated; I’m sure there would not have been a back handed compliment of Kalyan (or me) had he been expressing a more “progressive” view point.

    Port Huron statements are nothing new, but this is hardly one and should not be given support.

39. Oh thank god we are talking about this again. There were so many times on this blog when I was wondering why we are discussing this issue and I was told that “we are southasians and this is our issue” When the majority of people commenting here are Indians. Having said that I completely agree with Kalyan. ABD’s are always labelling themselves as belonging to some southasian organizations/blogs/gropus……why do they not have the courage to call themselves Indians???

40. I’m sure there would not have been a back handed compliment of Kalyan (or me) had he been expressing a more “progressive” view point.

    i’m right-wing dude 😉

41. To me the very concept of South Asia is to deny the “Indian” identity. American born students of Indian Origin probably are ashamed to be associated with land of “snake charmers”, and that is why they want to identify themselves as South Asians.

    Wow, I’ve never heard this sentiment. In fact it’s the opposite, that people wish they can refer to themselves as Indian Am, but in the need to be politically correct and not sound overconfident or hegemonic, refer to themselves as South Asians.

    Also let’s not forget that all of these identities also play into finances and resources – To get money for a particular bangladeshi american group, etc. can be more difficult than an organization that encompasses a larger student body or a larger population in a city, etc. And then our identity comes from the census too, as all south asians are seen as asian, by the US government and local governments.

42. sunshine:

    You asked “ABD’s are always labelling themselves as belonging to some southasian organizations/blogs/gropus……why do they not have the courage to call themselves Indians???”

    As an ABD, I tend to call myself south asian-american, rather than pakistani, because to be honest, I have more in comment with Indian, Bangladeshi, or Sri Lankan ABDs than I do with my parents’ friends in Karachi. I follow Pakistani politics and am aware of the tensions in Pakistan and India, but living in the US, it’s easier to look past those differences and see another ABD who is struggling to figure out how her identity as an American fits with her identity as, say, a Marathi.

    I also don’t call myself Pakistani because, as much as I pay attention to Pakistani issues, I’m not living them, and I find it somewhat obscene to identify with people who are living daily with no power or water, and the fear of radical Islamist attacks while I am sitting comfortably in a condo in Boston. When it is important to be more specific than just “south asian american” I always add the modifier -American to Pakistani-American.

43. 39 · sunshine said

    Oh thank god we are talking about this again. There were so many times on this blog when I was wondering why we are discussing this issue and I was told that “we are southasians and this is our issue” When the majority of people commenting here are Indians. Having said that I completely agree with Kalyan. ABD’s are always labelling themselves as belonging to some southasian organizations/blogs/gropus……why do they not have the courage to call themselves Indians???

    Mr. Sunshine,

    I have not lived in India for over 33 years but I’m proud to be an Indian. Enough said. ABD and DBDs; ABCDs, FOBs. Dark skin, light skin, blah, blah blah. If you’re Indian or of Indian descent acknowledge it, its not that hard. I have a wonderful American accent but that doesn’t mean I’m superior to someone who does not.

    Peace

44. Wow! Just what I’ve been waiting for! I weep gentle tears as my dreams are realized…….I didn’t really know who I was until I joined South Asian Writers and Journalists Against The Incorrect Usage of ‘this begs the question’. I know have a home, a real home.

    Kidding about the above, obviously.

    Looked over the stuff briefly, ain’t interested, but good luck to those who are.

    *Awwwww, it’s the old ABD vs DBD debate again. So cuuute……

45. Please substitue Now, not Know into above comment where Now, not Know, should have been used….thank you

46. If you’re Indian or of Indian descent acknowledge it, its not that hard.

    it is if you are a khalistani, right? so it’s more complicated than that. my parents showed up in these united states 1980ish from bangladesh. they’re social circles were (in the rank order of frequency of participation):

    bangladeshis (mostly muslims, but not all) bengalis from indian (mostly hindu, but not all) pakistanis (mostly muslim, but not all) and indians from places aside from bengal (mostly hindu, but not all)

    these debates get framed into “south asian” vs. “indian,” but it’s more complicated than that for most people. i’m someone who was born in bangladesh, raised in the USA, and don’t have a freak out if someone says i’m “indian.” my grandparents were born in india. my father was born in india. my mother was born in pakistan. my children will be half-brown and born in the USA; i assume that these bangladeshi vs. indian distinctions will have as much salience for them as sicily vs. naples distinctions have for the children of italian immigrants. not much.

47. Razib

    [quote —- ] a lot of the criticisms of ABDs are probably valid, but isn’t this just dumb? i mean, come on, ABDs were/are almost all raised by immigrant parents. the DBD at the salvation army was our parent! [end quote —]

    I did not get the salvation army part and I was not commenting on the parenting style of a DBD parent of an ABD kid, infact I dould learn a lot from your parents about raising an ABD.

    My point was that most ABDs are largely untouched by the politics of South East Asia so they have a somewhat high level/superficial idea about that region. This is not true for DBDs. For example news of a bomb blast in Mumbai or Dhaka is experienced differently by ABDs and DBDs – ABDs lament lack of security, poor infrastructure, ‘why can’t these people get along’, ‘where does this event fit the larger geo political picture’ BUT for DBDs it is about staying up all night making phone calls to make sure that none of their friends or family members got hurt.

    Another example – in this blog (which is run by ABDs) a lot of respect if accorded to an ABD veteran/member of Armed/Security Forces (WMD sleuth) – at the same time Armed Forces of a South Asian country are mocked. In fact a blogger made a really crude comment after an attack on a camp where some Police personnel were killed in India ( cuz out there all Police is bad and they violate human rights). For DBDs this type of news is distressing if he/she has a parent living in that region.

    Relationships between South Asian countries is contentious to say the least, local newspapers and TV reflect that reality and strong opinions are formed. Often DBDs carry this baggage with them where ever they migrate to. ABDs have no such context so they are more concerned about empowering “da brownz”.

48. 33 · KALYAN said

    Muslim students from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh wholeheartedly join the Muslim Students Association. Non Muslim Students from India, if they are in sufficient numbers, join to form the Indian Students Association. Indian Students of US Origin definitely do not want to be associated with the Indian Students Association patronized by students from India. To keep their identity separate they congregate to form the South Asian Students Association

    South Asian student association is probably centered on common interests in bollywood, bhangra, occasional bharatnatyam+indian classical music and brunette+brown attraction. There is going to be much more diversity and complexity to the South-Asian identity in the future as world will become more and more multipolar. And there is less of pan-Indianness in the Indian students association than it appears on the surface.

49. my parents used tohave 3 parties/year:

    1. one for the south indians
    2. one for the north
    3. one for the americans

50. My point was that most ABDs are largely untouched by the politics of South East Asia so they have a somewhat high level/superficial idea about that region. This is not true for DBDs.

    most of who who don’t identify as a DBD (i’m 1.5 actually, came here before age 5) have cousins and uncles and aunts and grandparents in brownland. obviously there’s a different, and there’s a qualitative difference in the visceral reaction and a different sent of norms which one uses to filter through current events, but i think i’m misunderstanding you, or, you’re soft-pedaling how aware most ABDs are about the human element of our connection to brownland. OTOH, i think it would be true that we’re less than well informed about the bigger issues re: south asian geopolitics. obviously an ABD’s personal and emotional connection to brownland(s) going to be less intense than someone whose formative experiences were abroad, but when something happens in bangladesh i immediately call my mother to check that all my dozens of near relations are OK. i’m sure i’m not the only one.