One of the classic ways abusers internally deflect responsibility is via a twisted transferance of blame to the victim. In other words, it was something little Tommy had done (or heck, simply who he was) that made Dad (and, alas, it’s usually Dad) beat him black and blue.
What makes the dialectic particulalry insidious is that should Tommy accept the blame, the abuse leaps from being merely physical into psychological & emotional. In that strange realm, Tommy’s self-sufficiency & worth plummets as Good/Bad is no longer something he can independently judge for himself but rather, becomes wholly determined by the tormentor’s chosen response.
Sadly, the recent bombings of the Danish embassy in Pakistan has brought forth language that’s more fitting a domestic abuse case than international diplomacy –
Fauzia Mufti Abbas, Pakistan’s ambassador to Denmark, agreed that the Mohammed cartoons, first published in Jyllands-Posten newspaper in October 2005, had incited Muslim anger and were possibly the motivation for the attack, which killed eight and wounded as many as 30.
‘It isn’t just the people of Pakistan that feel they have been harassed by what your newspaper has begun,’ she said. ‘I’d like to know if your newspaper is satisfied with what it has done and what it has unleashed?’
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p>Thankfully, the Dane’s recognize their values have worth & aren’t willing to accept blame –
Jørn Mikkelsen, Jyllands-Posten’s editor-in-chief, defended his newspaper’s decision to print the cartoons.
‘The decision to do so was in full accordance with Danish law, Danish press ethics and Danish press traditions. That the facts have been twisted in the rest of the world and misused for purposes that are no concern of Jyllands-Posten is something we can and will not take responsibility for.’
Bravo. The real criminals are the ones hurling bombs, not operating printing presses.
95
What if the Indian diplomat were muslim? 😉 Seriously though, Indian diplomats do not hold back. Diplomats have immunity and as much as I disagree with what Ms Fauzia statements, there is nothing irregular in her making them.
98 · Allahback, girl! said
wow, thanks for that pointer. Although I don’t think one could hold a contemporary institution hostage to the POV its stewards had taken in 1938, such an editorial heritage makes me unsympathetic. Moreover, reading up more on Jyllands-Posten (their portrayal in Danish satire, and the infamous refusal to print cartoons mocking Jesus) confirms that the paper has been acting to provoke, rather than to open up debate. They are, of course, as a private publication and not enjoined to promote any frank point-counterpoint dialog between commentators of different persuasions. That does indicate a lack of editorial maturity and poor journalistic ethics. Of course, I don’t mean to condone violence here; nevertheless, the JP has much to apologize for itself. Not for the cartoons, but for its general slanted and biased political coverage.
Well, in the first line you claim that history is not helpful in evaluating the need for these cartoons, but then in subsequent lines fall back on history of 1930s. What’s your point?.
Well, my point about their editorial tilt, if it wasn’t blatantly obvious, is that using history to judge the purity of motives of the newspaper or Islamists is not particularly illuminating, since neither side is without blame. I think the justifiability of this bombing, which killed innocent civilians, can be evaluated without trying to make the JP folks out to be the standard bearers of the torch of freedom and justice. Which they certainly don’t seem to be.
102 · portmanteau said
Jyllands-Posten, like many of the drowning-in-red-ink, wingnut-welfare recipient conservative rags in the US, is attempting to sell a product and in a marketplace where crazy-con alternatives to the MSM are scarce. Their American equivalents constantly dare their ACLU-loving counterparts to support them in whatever crass display of un-pc bravado is in fashion at the time (Holding all those Crazy Time-Traveling Muslimofascistic Wright-Mongers to task!) and chortle in unrestrained glee when the ACLU fails to immediately support their right to do a particular X-content crazy stunt.
I agree. I only mentioned the KristallNacht stuff because it seemed to resonate with their current context of xenophobia. Otherwise, it is not appropriate to hold current descendants responsible for the sins of their ancestors. I mean, nobody would deny that GWB is a staunch Friend Of Israel even though he benefits from his inheritance of wealth from Prescott Bush, who got rich by allying with Nazi companies.
don’t believe the hype. The cartoons where commissioned “based upon a motivation explained as stemming from difficulties that Danish writer KÃ¥re Bluitgen had finding artists to illustrate his children’s book about Muhammad[citation needed]. Artists in Denmark have been reluctant to provide these images due to a fear of violent attacks by extremist Muslims.”
There was some controversy, but not much; indicating the cartoons where mostly non-offensive. i report, you dicide.
but then, 2 danish inmans toured the Mideast, inserting 3 really offensive cartoons: Mohannmed having sex with a dog, Mo has a pedophile, and MO with a pig head. then the riots ensued. so the whole incident has a whiff of fake hate crime. this is the predictable result of western postmodernism privleging “victimhood.”
107 · Manju said
why hasn’t Pajama’s Media signed you to a lifetime contract? (and yes I do realize that much of the outrage came from the inserted cartoons, rather than the originals, but none of this is particularly new).
102 · portmanteau said
actually, jyllands-posten refused to publish a pic “of a figure with features of the devil (horns) and Islamic stereotypes (beard / pointy shoes). His genitalia are visible. In his hands he holds little human figures…Jyllands-Posten has stated that this image is offensive and publication would violate the newspaper’s ethical code.”
i guess this confirms that the paper was acting to open up debate, not provoke.
Who knew Michelle Malkin loved to hang out on Sepia Mutiny?
Certainly a logical conclusion, since we do know that Danish Imams, Pakistani suicide bombers, and Saudi flag burners justify their actions and thought processes using po-mo discourse and Derrida studies.
forgot the link:
actually, jyllands-posten refused to publish a pic “of a figure with features of the devil (horns) and Islamic stereotypes (beard / pointy shoes). His genitalia are visible. In his hands he holds little human figures…Jyllands-Posten has stated that this image is offensive and publication would violate the newspaper’s ethical code.”
Umm.. no. Unless one holds that their decision not to print Jesus cartoons on Easter was based purely on the quality of the cartoons, whereas the Muhammad cartoons were to bolster free speech.
Haloing the victim is as ridiculous a response as blaming the victim.
I do realize that much of the outrage came from the inserted cartoons, rather than the originals, but none of this is particularly new
It is certainly news to Mary Mary Not Contrary, Allahback girl and portmanteau. The outrage was manufactured by the Imams to suit their ends.
Heh… Islamic Rage Boy must have put on his best performance.
I don’t blame the JP folks. They did the right thing. The blame should be on the bombers.
So much nuance for some rageaholics, but not for hotheads in saffron. Why?
Let me attempt to answer my own question, nominally Hindu kids envy Euro-Americans for their guilt..it is the spice of life. Hence the ability empathize with everyone except your own kin. Also conquerors with black hair and/or epicanthal folds (i.e. early Central Asian conquerors of Indian) are not to be viewed with an eye jaundiced by post-colonial grievance because {insert latest idea from Pomona her}
I daresay we will not be seeing Mike Myer’s doing “The Love Mullah” anytime soon for that reason.
94 · Allahback, girl! said
The cartoon riots were a global phenomenon not a Danish phenomenon. Reducing this issue to Danes making fun of an ethic minority certainly makes the Muslims look like the underdogs, doesn’t it?
In actuality, this incident pitted a small inoffensive nation on the Northern corner of the earth against a religion of 1.5 billion people, all because a small newspaper in that small nation ran a few cartoons.
I see the Danes as the real underdogs. The Islamists control dozens of governments, terrorist groups, have huge petro cashflows, tens of millions of devoted followers, and attacked Danish Danish embassies and boycotted Danish companies which had nothing to do with the cartoons.
Newsflash: Denmark is not a powerful imperialistic nation that is menacing the Islamic world. On the contrary it is the Islamic nations which have used this incident to force Denmark to prostrate before them and to demand that islamic values should guide Danish national life.
For the record I am not the least bit offended by the things that get the saffron crowd in a tizzy and am pbly going to enjoy “Love Guru”. I am just wondering why Hindus, who were a subject people of both Muslim rulers and Europeans, not “entitled” to the same infantile tantrums?
Well, with the input of Adam Gadahn AQ video statements certainly do use the lingo to reach out to Western intelligentsia.
94 · Allahback, girl! said
You are distorting what Amitabh said. All people should be treated equally but not all cultures and values should not be treated the same.
For example, free speech is a an important part of American political culture. We value free speech as an end to itself. We have a right to ask immigrants to conform to American ideas of free speech. America should not restrict free speech to laws to make immigrants who are easily offended by certain ideas and sentiments feel more comfortable.
lc writes: >>nominally Hindu kids envy Euro-Americans for their guilt… Hence the ability empathize with everyone except your own kin.
So true. Just the other day I was at a party talking about affirmative action with a 2-gen desi. His argument was that AA is a must for african-americans, and that desi/asian-americans who lose out their hard-earned college admissions because of AA should not complain because it’s their duty towards social justice. My point was: As it is affirmative action is bad – even if a remote case can be made in its favor, only white-americans should be giving up their seats because it is their ancestors who enslaved african-americans – not desi/asian americans’ ancestors. The guy looked at me as if I was speaking in my mother tongue.
M. Nam
Contrived situation or not, racist or not, the issue is still about freedom of speech. I really don’t give a rat’s ass whether the Danish cartoonists are the underdogs or Muslims are, nor do I think being the underdog automatically walks you past the velvet rope to the VIP lounge of the Moral High Ground.
While we’re on the subject of “hopelessly tribal,” isn’t it a crying shame that so many people go to such extreme lengths to rationalize the most barbaric sorts of behavior when performed in the name of religion?
Just because you found something blasphemous does not entitle you to indulge in violent retribution for the perceived offense. I don’t care what religion you believe in, that’s ridiculous.
Easy to call B.S. on that:
Here is a cartoon with Joseph and Mary by J-P. http://www.filtrat.dk/sandbox/images/uploads/Hvem20sagde20hvad.jpg
Even if this cartoon had not been printed, it is easy to huff and puff and blow the straw man down. The Jesus cartoons referred to were unsolicited, while the Mohammed cartoons were not. If I send a cartoon to Time off the spur of the moment, how likely is it that they would print it even if my friends thought it was hilarious?
Also this was in 2003 before the killing of Theo Van Gogh and the other incidents that caused the self censorship.
Given that there was no self censorship of this level regarding Christianity in Europe, and no corresponding killing of a national figure by fundamentalist Christians in Denmark at that time what would have been the point of publishing the Jesus Cartoons? To show that they were trying to play catch up with Chris Ofili?
I think the justifiability of this bombing, which killed innocent civilians, can be evaluated without trying to make the JP folks out to be the standard bearers of the torch of freedom and justice.
So how justified are the bombers, Allahback, girl?
amaun, i like how you quoted the sentence which should have given you the answer while asking the question. you are so funny.
also, i might suggest reading my earlier comments. or maybe you were showing how you too were capable of unjustified and poorly considered umbrage.
124 · Salil Maniktahla said
I agree. But one argument that is being made is that the Danes are the bullies and that Muslims are just voiceless underdogs who acted out of frustration. Its the opposite. The cartoonists have gone into hiding and police protection while the Islamist line is supported by many governments, given credence at the UN and of course enforced by large mobs all over the world.
why, i usually take the time to engage with ponniyin selvan, dizzydesi, jgandhi and co.
nicely put. i don’t know why people won’t consider the possibility that JP could be pandering to its own xenophobic audience (yes, not all Scandinavians are wholesome blond socialist hippies happily crooning ABBA tunes). it is possible to condemn the bombers in the strongest possible terms without imbuing JP with noble motives.
The sequence is
i don’t know why people won’t consider the possibility that JP could be pandering to its own xenophobic audience
Substitute “JP” with “Danish Imams”
132 · amaun said
amaun: in this case, i think both sentences work. louiecypher, will you at least give my nominal-hindu-self props for admitting that my phenotypic kin (also political adversary) has a point? its a rare occasion that i find myself in agreement with amaun (#132).
And according to your religion, you could have been a white slave trader in a past life, More Bhagavan ka Nama.
I am not responsible for any of my ancestors did. However, I am responsible for what I did in a past life and am presently reaping the karmic results of it.
Some of my ancestors were white but they were not slave owners. So then following your logic we have to trace back generations and determine what white people had slave owning ancestors?
The whole thing is silly.
No one should have to give up a hard earned seat to anybody.
At the same time, there does need to be programs in place for underprivileged persons.
The best program is GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES.
Huh! May I know the criteria that you used to bracket the three of us?.
92 · Mary Mary Not Contrary said
Sorry, but you can’t compare who is better. I’m not a Dane, but to me at least the popularity of so-called ‘shock jocks’ in the United States, with their vile, vituperative use of language, is at least as bizarre and alien as the Mohammed cartoons are to you. From my point of view Americans can be just as racially insensitive, and they have less of an excuse, since the USA is a very multicultural country. I’m not defending Jyllands-Posten, which I’ve heard is fit to wipe your feet with, but I do have to point out that there is no competition as to who is better – and also that there are people who read this site who are not from the USA. Sometimes the attitudes here can be really frustrating and alienating(I don’t blame the bloggers, but some of the commentators).
135 · Ponniyin Selvan said
The general slant of your comments matches with the phenomenon that Thiru Fanishwar described (and self-published anonymously because he was afraid of the righteous wrath of Bajrang Dal activists) in his book, ‘What’s the Matter with Kanpur?’
I keed. My taxonomy is based on a regression analysis of sepia comments.
The general slant of your comments matches with the phenomenon that Thiru Fanishwar described (and self-published anonymously because he was afraid of the righteous wrath of Bajrang Dal activists) in his book, ‘What’s the Matter with Kanpur?’
I know whats the matter with Cawnpore.
You go into these small towns in Kanpur, like a lot of small towns in Eastern UP, the jobs have now been gone now for 6 months since the rupee appreciated against the dollar and the export industry collapsed.
And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to trishuls or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-Bihari sentiment or anti-Muslim sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
The general slant of your comments matches with the phenomenon that Thiru Fanishwar described (and self-published anonymously because he was afraid of the righteous wrath of Bajrang Dal activists) in his book, ‘What’s the Matter with Kanpur?’
I keed. My taxonomy is based on a regression analysis of sepia comments.
🙂 You must be a “secular progressive” to see “Hindutvadis” everywhere.
FYI, I’m actually fine with and enjoy all kinds of cartoons/movies/satires on religion, whethery they be of Mohammad / Sita and Parvati in a lesbian act. If you act in one such movie, I’d welcome it.
My hobby is to visit this website (in Tamil) http://www.viduthalai.com run by atheists to get juicy exposes on Hindu scriptures. Recently I came to know that Lord Ayyappa is formed because of homosexual relationship between two other lords. Interesting, isn’t it??..
139 · Ponniyin Selvan said
Well, check your browser history/DVD collection/Netflix queue again, Ponniyin Selvan. Perhaps I’m already one of your guilty pleasures 🙂
I do agree that Hindu mythology is endlessly fascinating (despite being both secular and progressive, without the scare-quotes, thanks). I’m sure Wendy Doniger thinks so too. See also: Kubrick, Cruise, and Kidman — you seem to enjoy art that gratuitously mingles sex with religion.
Good to know that. If you can let us know the name of the flick, that’d be great too. 🙂
As a Pakistani, it is so embarrassing when these idiots go out and consistently do ridiculously stupid (and horrible) things like bombing embassies or burning effigies. I understand people hold certain things sacred but expecting others to do so is incredibly silly. And believe me, the same people have a pretty no-holds barred approach when it comes to taking the piss out of other religions or symbols especially Hinduism and their Gods. They just can’t take it though. And i think it shows a remarkable lack of faith in their own religion. Are they really that insecure?!
Unfortunately, you can’t really expect anything better from them because they’re the ‘illiterate masses’. The fact that they killed one foreigner is good enough for them. The other pakis who died in the blast were just collateral damage. I’ve given up on this but i think what really pisses me off is the attitude & indifference of those who should presumably know better (i.e. the educated or elite lot), including people like our ambassador to Denmark. I can’t believe she had the audacity to even say something like ‘look what you’ve unleashed’?! Take some responsibility, woman. Or get our government to start putting these idiots behind bars and make an example out of them. Until they do that, we’re always going to have a bunch of idiots whose response to any slight is a handy grenade.
And to those who believe that violence seems to be the only answer, i’m sorry but i don’t think Muslims have given the other avenues a real shot. They’ve always resorted to violence, with the sane voices being too far and few in between.
Sarah writes:>>people like our ambassador to Denmark. I can’t believe she had the audacity to even say something like ‘look what you’ve unleashed’?! Take some responsibility, woman.
A diplomat cannot go beyond the cultural and social mores of the country he/she is representing. Does the social fabric allow her to express her opinion without fear of retribution? I mean, this is a country where the Presidents are hanged by successors. Where an ex-Prime minister was assasinated just a few months ago. Does her diplomat’s salary match the risk-premium for her job description?
Give the poor woman a break. Her only mistake is that she took up the job of representing savages to a civilized world. She should quit and retire.
M. Nam
Do you believe that there is hope for Muslims of the world or should we just accept that they’re all savages and treat them accordingly?
Give the poor woman a break. Her only mistake is that she took up the job of representing savages to a civilized world
Pakistanis are savages?
145 · Pagal_Aadmi_for_debauchery said
Aside from this one poor woman, apparently yes.
Ironic, since this savage feels that way too.
That savage is really just another weener.
Pakistan has banned kite-flying (associated with Basant, a “Hindu-origin” festival) because of pressure from Islamic clerics. Basant has been part of the culture of the region for centuries, one which somehow retained its hold on the people there despite their becoming Muslim..now even that last vestige of pre-Islamic indigenous culture has been destroyed (or is in the process of being destroyed)…these are the types of religious leaders the Muslim world has to offer (and suffer under).
jgandhi (“muslims are savages and control the world”) is sepia’s answer to william donohue.