A guy wrote the following letter to the “Dear Prudence” column at Slate.com:
I am a 25-year-old Indian-American who has been in this country since I was 5. I started dating a Caucasian classmate four and a half years ago in college. The romance bloomed, and we are still together. She is kind, loving, beautiful, and a great inspiration. I see us together for the rest of our lives. There is only one problem: My parents are very traditional Indians and have told me since I was a young boy that they wanted me to have an arranged marriage, and if I did “bring home an American girl” that they would disown me. After two years, I told them about the relationship, and they were rightfully hurt and upset I’d kept it a secret. They say now that they were “joking” about disowning me and that I should have come to them. But it is close to three years later, and my girlfriend has still never met my parents. I greet holidays with a sense of dread because I feel pulled in two different directions. Even when I bring her up in conversation, they quickly change the subject or just walk away. They say that my relationship is just “a phase” and that I will “come to my senses.” I also feel a sense of embitterment from my girlfriend for being completely shunned by her potential in-laws. My parents have told me that they will accept my girlfriend when we become engaged, but by then I fear that their attempt to build bridges will be too little, too late. I know that my parents love me and want the best for me, but is there anything I can do to unharden their hearts? (link)
Prudie’s advice in response to this was pretty good, I thought (read the column to see). But I was wondering — what would you tell this person? Would it be better for him to push his parents, and demand they accept his girlfriend, or is it better to kind of wait and see (until, say, getting engaged)? Do parents really mean it when they say “we’ll disown you,” or is it just something they say?
Finally, do people have experiences of their own along these lines they want to share?
Any gay South Asian have experience introducing a white partner to the the parents? Was it like Disown 2.0?
It seems like many of these stories – Never Mind’s, Project 37, xetra’s, sandhya’s and others – carry the common message that parents will always have some initial trauma and disappointment (heck, parents go through initial trauma and disappointment if you marry someone who doesn’t have the right job, even) but if the non-desi fiancee and the “wayward” child genuinely respect and care for the parents, want to be in the family with them, and show compassion, empathy and understanding – the parents sense and respond to that respect and love, and come around. Often much more quickly than you expected. I’ve observed (and experienced, in my own family with my brother and his wife) that things really only get ugly if the parents get the sense the child doesn’t really care about what they think or how they feel. That’s when the feelings of natural disappointment – instead of just fading peacefully as they get to know the actual fiancee – turn into rage and permanent anger.
The lesson? If you really love and respect your parents, don’t give up – as Project 37 said, be sympathetic, let them know your door and your arms are always open. AND – make sure you a fiancee who isn’t just being nice to your parents to humor you. He/she has to really want it. Parents can spot faked sincerity a mile away and will close up like a box.
So you found out that artsy white boys want you to financially support their creative ass! So glad you didn’t fall for that.
Girly, I’m crossing my fingers for you too. I hope he’s worthy of you.
24 · Janeofalltrades said
Ok, Rahul , I hope you are calling in sick today.
53 · bess said
Bess, thanks muchly for the great vibes — most days I worry whether I’m worthy of him.
Wow, there are some hard-hearted desi parents out there! Damn!
In comparison, my parents have been wonderful about this issue. While they tole me they would prefer an Indian or Asian girl (my girlfriend now is Asian Hmong), they care more about character than culture. I was a typically shy awkward desi guy and my parents were always telling me to get a girlfriend. When I finally found the courage to start going on dates, they didn’t care that I was seeing white girls (it’s usually white girls who are interested in me for some reason). They were just thrilled that I was dating someone. They were more concerned with the possibility of racism from white people or the girl’s parents.
And yes, they constantly tell me to WAIT for marriage even though I’m 25. They think 30 would be a good age for me to get married.
I guess it would be stupid to generalize about all desi parents. We’re Malayalee Catholics if that makes any difference.
I lucked in out by having my older sister clear the way for me. When my parents found out that my sister was dating a white guy in college, Dad refused to my sister for over a year. And after that, it took him 3-4 years to accept that this wasn’t a situation that he could change, and that he was better off gaining a son-in-law than losing a daughter. And by the time of their wedding seven years later, they had grown incredibly close to my brother-in-law.
With me, my folks engaged in massive cognitive dissonance–they never asked who I was dating, and I never volunteered any information. I finally broke the news when my girfriend (now wife) moved in with me; by that point, I was 30 and it had been over a decade after the trauma with my sister, and they never once raised an issue. I’m not sure if it was simply the passage of time, the fact that things were different for a boy rather than a girl, or that they were simply relieved that I wasn’t gay.
As I think about it, it was always my father who had an issue, not my mom. From when I was a teenager, my mom always told me, “I don’t care who you marry, as long as she’s a good person and makes you happy.” But then she’d sometimes add, “though if you really care about my feelings, just don’t marry a muslim…”
I had this issue. My husband never lied about me. He was always respectful to his parents but stood his ground “accept my wife/treat her with respect or you can’t be a part of our lives.” They came around.
I don’t belive in all of this coddling of the parents.
Wow, where was this guy when I met the Biggest Mistake of My Life back in 2000? He shows a lot of cojones and maturity for his age, certainly compared to my experience. I spent what I realize was too much time in a relationship with the same sword of Damocles over our heads too. Initially, on both sides, the parents were not happy; the difference is, over time, mine thawed and began to do the holiday thing and Christmas gift thing (much to my own surprise), whereas every holiday card I sent to his went routinely, and purposefully, ignored and unacknowledged. My experience upon meeting the ‘rents (twice over the course of 5 years, once here, once there) was stony silence, monosyllabic answers as I tried to ask the most harmless questions and open questions, and tension so thick you could touch it.
I just interviewed Manil Suri recently and asked about this (his partner Larry is white and American), and he said, back around 1981, his parents (especially his Mom) were very cool when he came out on his first trip back from the US. He said that he thought she had already intuited a lot from his letters. With his father, he didn’t refer to a specific incident of Having The Big Talk, but rather, it seemed to be more understood but not discussed too much. Suri’s been with Larry for 18 years now. Well done, eh?
this sounds so terribly familiar! if its not the race then its the region/ language/ religion/ caste – the reason why this guy’s parents are playing the waiting game is because he is. my suggestion – don’t just talk about her to your parents – its been 3 years – call her over to meet them and let them talk. if they get along, they will and if they don’t – well then at least someone’s happy!! and then you can always wait for them to come around.
“sounds like you’re the only one growing up… ;-)”
INSERT “NOT”
Or I’m not the only one growing older…I guess my parents really want to see my baby…before they die, as they morbidly put it.
I think this whole process of dating someone that your parents disapprove of is easier if you are making a ton of money. My parents supported me in grad school and later, and I work in a nonprofit and I don’t make a ton of money now…If I’d just gone straight to med school and been making a six figure salary by the time I was 28 (or on my way to doing that), there would have been less pressure.
One word: Patience. I’m 31 now and have gleefully waited my parents out on the whole marriage issue. First, I had to marry a southie, anglo-indian, catholic, DOCTOR or else I would be disowned. Then, one by one these requirements got knocked out. Now, I’m dating a wonderful, Hindu, southie woman who used to be a doctor but then came to her senses and does what she loves. they really like her and things are going great. if all else fails, wait until grandkids come into the picture. they cure everything apparently…..except sanity.
Wow, sooo many stories of people going through this. I am too… in my case, the parental opposition is from my side and the boy is same religion but from a different state background. Just plain silly to oppose this while he and I both grew up in the US…
I think Indian, er S. Asian Aunties (and Uncles to an extent), with their years of socialization in the nosy Indian community environment, are adept at playing social politics. So threatening to disown, keeping their heads in the sand, acting like the relationship will die out over time, etc. are all strategies. Because S. Asian parents seem to think they should determine their kids lives – what they study, what profession they go into, etc. For some reason S. Asian parents seem obssessed with controlling their kids – probably because their kids are reflection on them in the COMMUNITY (which I hate by the way – who cares what a dumb ignorant hatin’ community thinks).
So the tactics so far seem to be: threaten to disown, argue a lot, ignore, noncooperation, and in my case, try to make the “special friend” leave you (whenever my parents have finally agreed to talk, they end up either making ridiculous demands or just being really, really rude).
I consider a marriage to be a success only on the day when both husband and wife play with their own (not adopted) grandchild in the presence of their child(ren). Any other outcome, regardless of reason, is a failed marriage.
Your parents wanted their marriage to be a success – can’t blame them for that.
M. Nam
PS, I think that’s a great point about how your parents might have given you some leeway with your dating choices if you made a lot of money.
I’ve noticed a lot less opposition to the doctors or other super-highly successful people I’ve known who marry “out”. A lot of times the parents or other people well say, “They met in medical school… of course a doctor needs another person on their level.” Or, “Well he’s a doctor and he wanted someone that would suit him.” And they somehow excuse whatever difference would have been unacceptable if the child was, for example, a software engineer or something. I saw this with own Harvard-educated doctor cousin, who was actually divorced from his first marriage with minimal gossip/finger-pointing, and seemed to have no issues marrying a girl of another religion who was a lot less successful then he is. People just gave him all this credit even if they never even met him…
I think a lot of it is about power play… the more clout you have in the community, whether by profession or knowing powerful people or being super rich, etc., the more you can get away with.
For all you people out there who are struggling to convince their parents, here is a fool-proof plan.
Scenario: Desi guy living in US, parents living in India. This guy’s ‘sweetheart’ happens to be a desi, but from another state, speaks different language, maybe has different religious beliefs.
Step 1: Buy a camera. Step 2: At every social gathering, ask your friends to take a lot of pictures of you, with your female friends, who should NOT be desis. White girls, black girls, Asian girls …whatever be it. Step 3: Email these pics regularly to your parents, together with the obligatory new car, new apartment pics. Step 4: Mention a lot of American (girl) names during your phone conversation with you parents, and tell the story of this one friend who married a ‘gori’. Drop them a hint that you too might do this one day. Step 5: Amidst all this, please don’t forget about your real girl-friend 😉
Once you have done this, your parents will call you one fine day and tell you that they are strictly against you marrying an American girl, because that’s too much to ask. Your mom will also mention “had the girl been an Indian, we would have said yes to the marriage, but American is a strict no-no.”
Job done. Wait for a few months, and then break the news about your real girlfriend.
This trick works like a charm, and little modifications can render it useful in a lot of different scenarios.
66 · Accidental Enlightenment said
Accidental Enlightenment, I think you’re right in some cases but it cuts both ways. My bf with the crazy parents is a doctor and I think for many parents with the traditional success-story kids feel a sense of entitlement from their kids…i.e. “I put you through med/grad school, I supported you to become what you are, and you repay me by marrying ‘out’?”.
Do what I do. Stay unmarried in your late 20s and your parents will beg you to marry any Indian. Stay unmarried in your early 30s and they will be begging you to marry even a white person. Late 30s and your parents will be begging you to marry anyone. Stay unmarried in your late 40s and they will be begging you to come out or whatever if that is the case.
OK I keed, sorta.
I read that advice column on slate too and the only thing that I thought was the guy was a pussy. If my parents did that to me, I would just ignore them. I would still talk to them, but if they gave me the silent treatment, I would just tell them to cut it off. And I know if my parents tried to cut me off, my sibling would not stand for it and vice versa.
That’s another thing I want to bring up. If parents disown one kid, I think it’s upto the other siblings to tell the parents that if they disown one kid, they might as well disown everyone. And that is something very few Indian parents are willing to do. So my advice to any fellow Indians – ABDs or DBDs – out there is to band with your brothers and sisters and even friends and ask your parents to cut out the nonsense or ask them why they left India(where they probably will be out of place anyway after all the changes in recent years).
66 · Accidental Enlightenment said
(Sorry for above post, posted incorrectly.)
Accidental Enlightenment, I think you’re right in some cases but it cuts both ways. My bf with the crazy parents is a doctor and I think for many parents with the traditional success-story kids feel a sense of entitlement from their kids…i.e. “I put you through med/grad school, I supported you to become what you are, and you repay me by marrying ‘out’?”.
Personally, I would call out my parents (as respectfully as possible, of course:)) and call them out on joking about disowning and them wanting me to be open with them. However, the reality is, some parents say this and don’t really mean it if the ‘openness’ entails owning up to things of which they do not approve. Although I am not in a relationship right now, I suffer from similar circumstances as the writer, and am constantly being told by my parents how much they don’t want me to hide things from them etc and then having to hear from them comments and judgments passed on other desi kids and their behaviour. I always challenge these comments, at every chance I get, much to my parents’ (and where relevant, aunties’/uncles’) grief, but I think it’s the only way to show them the irrationality or hypocrisy of their statements. Admittedly, I have kept more than my fair share of secrets for various reasons, and have failed to bring home anybody whom I have dated, for the sole reason that I didn’t want to be with any of them long-term and there was no point in having to hear my parents’ litany of comments (both when they met the guy and well after we inevitably would break off); basically, it was easier not to create a fuss over a relationship that would never last. Now, however, I would bring home anybody who was long-term potential, even if that had not yet translated into some sort of commitment in my parents’ eyes. Unlike the reader, a ‘white’ partner would not be a barrier, as my parents would have relatively little problem accepting him (in fact, I think my parents would more easily accept a nice Jewish guy than a Punjabi one). But my biggest fear is that I find my soul mate in a Muslim. I would still bring him home, and hope that, as with my Muslim friends, my parents would one day accept him. But I’m not so naive to think such a thing will be easy, or even possible.
I feel for the reader, but I would suggest easing his girlfriend into his parents’ lives asap. And if it helps, and this is his intention, start discussing the prospect of engagement – both in her presence and when he is alone with them. Hopefully, it will give them enough time to get to know her and they might be more receptive to this if they know how serious their son is about her.
In my experience, the white son-in-law seems to have less hangups dealing with the indian relatives than the ABD son in law and certainly more respect to his in laws than the DBD son in law.
Lotsa insights from the kids side. I want to throw in something from the parents side (sorta).
I am 1.25gen (here since junior year in college), been living in the West(US/Europe) for 14 years. Extremely traditional relationship with parents (fear & respect for dad/love for mom) – arranged marriage (couldn’t get over the hurdle of my near-illiterate mom not being able to talk to my wife – if you want to call that a lame excuse, I can see that POV).
I have been a dad for 18 months and have been doing some idle thought exercises about what the today’s me would do if my son from 2040 wants to marry a non-Hindu. No matter how much I try, I can’t get myself to accept that it is an okay scenario.
I somehow feel the responsibility/obligation to continue my Indian/Hindu way of life through my off-spring. I don’t have any hangups about north-south or caste (my parents were very non-traditional on this one aspect, I don’t know why) or even gay/lesbian issue (living in the West for so long helped with that I think), but I just cannot get myself to accept even the hypothetical scenario of my son/future-daughters marrying a non-Indian or Indian-non-Hindu. I feel as if that is somehow letting a piece of my own soul slip-away.
I want the resources of my kids, their kids, and so on to go towards building, enhancing, strengthening, rectifying the Hindu/Indian way of life (note the use of rectifying – don’t come at me with ‘is Hinduism so worth preserving?’ garbage). I feel that them marrying someone outside of Indian/Hindu dharma will comrpomise their loyalty – if not theirs, their kids’ loyalty will definitely be not tied as much to Hinduism.
Thoughts?
Oh, haha – I just remembered another tactics parents use. Mainly from mother: “Every since you told me I’ve started having hypertension/back problems got worse/dil ki bimarri.” (Dil ki bimari = heart problems, not to be confused with tutte dil = broken hearts, which is what they’re causing.)
When my mom tried that one, I reminded her of her yogic stress management class; “Remember to just let go with the things you can’t control in life.”
The drama….
And I agree a lot of getting parents to come around is to just cut through the bakwaas/b.s. and move forward. If the guy in the letter wants to get engaged, I agree he should just go for it. My parents turned around from outright rejection to reluctant and defeated acceptance of my partner choice once they saw the ring.
kohlgirl, no worries… I can definitely imagine that scenario happening too, where the parents do the whole guilt trip/I’m so betrayed after all we’ve done for. If the parents want to change your mind, they’ll try it all… And they probably truly feel that way too. So I guess it’s either tactics of real feelings.
On the positive side, if someone in this type of situation hasn’t thought through about how serious, committed and ready they are for the relationship/marriage, going through these sorts of trials will definitely make them think and re-evaluate.
p.s. Sorry to everyone for the typos and grammatical errors in my post – me no good at typing/grammar
Gruhasthu, I understand your feelings about wanting to perpetuate the Hindu dharma in your offspring. But in some ways, with Hinduism, we’re supposed to go with the karmic flow right? And not have attachment to a particular outcome? Do without doership, etc.? Well, that’s one school of thought at least. There’s also the good work = good fruits school of thought in Hinduism, which always gets very confusing when you try to reconcile the different philosophies.
So if you raise your children to have a deep appreciation of Hinduism, to find its deeper meanings and their own connection to it, maybe all you can do is hope for the best and let nature take its course. It’s important to do that outside of the surface, “I gave the temple $1000 so we will get many blessings now.”
Sorry for the off-topicness… but I think despite religion any parents needs to realize for their own sake that you do the best you can with raising your child. You can’t expect they’ll do the right thing, and you can’t get so wrapped up in how they reflect on you that you care more about appearances.
i think the guy should take ownership of his life. we all struggle w/this to some extent, and a good friend reminded me that there comes a time in life when you have to simply decide how much your parents’ approval is going to dictate your life. my parents, as modern as they are about certain things, are still a bit stiff about relationships. through my experiences, i’ve learned that my parents are just plain uncomfy with the concept of dating. whether the guy is indian or non-indian doesn’t matter; whether or not the relationship is headed for marriage does matter.
parents may do and say things that hurt us, but their ultimate goal/wish is for their kids to have a happy and drama-free life. another thing about parents like these is happiness is always something in the future. they’ll never be completely happy, and if this upsets you, you’ll always be seeking their approval and living your life in ways that make them (and maybe you) happy, thus allowing them to disrespect you and your partner. so, while we can’t change hearts and others’ definitions of happiness, we can change the way we react to them.
As a white guy married to an Indian woman, I will say it took some time for the family to warm up to me. I found some of their hesitancy understandable. For instance, they were concerned I would not understand what it is like to be a minority and that I would not want to do any traditional Indian things. I think they were also concerned about what to tell the family back in India. But, there were other concerns I found a little insulting. There was a real suspicion about my motives and questions about why I was interested in someone who was not white.
They never suggested disowning my wife though and they did come around to liking me. There is still some level of distrust but we get along fine knowing that I will never be someone they confide in or discuss real feelings with.
I can see why people would be hesitant to embrace inter-racial marriage. On the other hand, we see it as something to celebrate. We do not really think about the differences of race within our relationship. In our minds, we are the same as one another, two human beings in love. But, we do have to keep aware of the fact that we both grew up with different experiences because of our skin colors and our names, etc.
On top of the personal fact that we just love each other and want to spend our lives together, I think inter-racial marriage is a testament to the human spirit and a sign of social progress that should be celebrated.
gruhasthu, i think it is possible to carry on the desi culture without being with a partner who is also desi. i think what matters is ho much your partner is open to this, or just open to the idea of culture, of whatever ethnicity. this is esp. so since there are plenty of desis – dbds and abds – who either not very tied to or knowledgable about desi culture. as a person who is an abd but also very tied to my desi culture, i think i know enough about my culture to pass it on to my kids, and i would only want/require that my partner be open to exposing the kids to the culture.
and not to nit-pick, but it seems that you have sort of mapped out your kids’ lives and ambitions vis-a-vis the desi culture – it’s all well and good to expose them to it, but don’t get too disappointed when they don’t take to it. as one of three siblings, the relationship that we each share with desi culture, despite almost equal levels/nature of exposure.
my parents, being consummate bong cosmopolitan types never objected to my marriage (they actually loved it that i married a jewish girl); my in-laws on the other hand…..needed to be convinced, to put it mildly (they had all sorts of unfounded preconceptions, etc.)
…is vastly different.
i forgot to mention (#80) that its all good now
It really is an age thing.
And parents opinions change once a lot of those perfect looking marriages fall apart.
Gruhasthu-
Please don’t take offense, but my first thought is I feel sorry for your kids. You said you would feel a piece of your soul slipping away and that’s where I think you’re wrong to begin with…its not your soul, its theirs and its not your life. You may have brought them into this world, but your kids don’t owe you anything (although they should take care of you, respect you, etc.)
The second thought is, and again please don’t take offense, but really, how religious are you? I have met very, very few first generation desi-americans who have even read from the Gita let alone the other Hindu scriptures. And if you are very religious and preserve your Hindi identitity by observing puja frequently, then honestly, you should know better…Hinduism is one of the great religions because of its capacity to embrace other religions. No Hindu priest I have ever spoken with has said it is a sin to practice another religion or to even marry outside the Hindu religion.
my mother gave up meat on two days of the week in the hopes that my sister would get married. her last trip to india started with a sojourn to guruvayoor, where the priest told her to visit 13 additional temples, which took over a trip that lasted all of 15 days. a pooja done for the same purpose two years ago resulted in very little (except, much to my mother’s dismay, with my cousin becoming pregnant). a pooja last fall is the most recent event, in which, apperently, i was included, as well. not that i’m complaining about the last one – amazing kozhkattais in the prasadam 😉 my mother has marriage on here mind, yet, still, despite the nearly 10 years they have spent looking for my sister, they are still extremely picky.
So apparently there are a few ways to mitigate the risk of being disowned or getting grief from parents:
Oh and requirments seem to also disppear the 2nd time around!
I think the power issues need to be established early on especially with men because eventually it affects more than his life. From experience women leave the home and they don’t have to fulfill the kind of “expectations” desi parents seem to have off guys. The man if he doesn’t assert his independence, adulthood, real personality early on in his relationship with his parents and chooses to keep reality from them about who he is will ALWAYS face problems when he brings someone into the family. If you’ve allowed your parents to treat you like you are 12, still follow curfew, lie about where you’ve been, still live at home at 35 and have never paid your own bills expect to be treated like a 12 year old even if you acquire a wife. And imagine the wife’s hell.
Indepencence btw is a state of existence and being in my books and entails having respect and faith from your parents. If that is never established early on or in natural course of time the power struggles begin. Honestly is the best policy. Yeah it might give your parents gray hair early on but it will prevent some of the power struggles that go on later in life.
I could never imagine marrying someone else who isn’t Hindu or Jain (I’m Jain). I had a really bad experience with a Christian Indian girl, and that has made me bitter to a certain extent. She ripped and tore me apart; claimed my religion was inferior, etc. This has made more conservative, and marry a girl with the same values & traditions. I’m still young though, things may change.
79 · ak said
You raise two very important points 1) not mapping out my kids’ lives 2) not to get disappointed if the kids don’t take to it.
On #1, I don’t want to map out their lives too much, but my wife and I have to lay some path forward. My thought exercises and my comment above (for your and others’ input) are little parts of my figuring out what that path is. And that is going to be an ongoing exercise for a while – my kid is only 18 months old.
On #2, I agree with your point that parents shouldn’t be disappointed if the kids don’t follow the path they lay out. But by the same token, Kids shouldn’t be so disgruntled if the parents don’t accept the path the kids choose. I see/hear a lot of bitter recrimination of parents and no effort to think things from their perspective. The way parents hurt kids on this issue is exactly the same way kids hurt the parents. Kids just have the luxury of calling their parents old-fashioned and retrograde and such.
well, they can always try the sonia gandhi passing routine. worked for her. in fact, indira prefferred her over maneka, but thats a whole other story.
This guy is too funny?! First off he lies to his parents for almost 5 years. And then, instead of having the courage to face his parents with his girlfriend, he goes whining to a national columnist that his parents are mean old Indians who have no idea what love is all about! If I was the parent I would probably say the same thing, that this too shall pass.
The girl also has aided and abetted him in pulling the wool over his parents eyes. What makes her think that he would not do the same to her after some time. Sheesh!! Grow up already. I hope the genius is reading this site, if not I pray that his friends tell him to read all these comments. Such a coward!
Gruhasthu,
Fine I respect that. You feel that your religion is important and you want your children to have the same faith. Then while your son is 18 months old still I hope you have a plan of action of how you will make that happen. Religion isn’t exactly like osmosis. You have to practice what you preach and preach it every single day and make sure you give your children the foundation to have faith in Hinduism. If that is important to you.
But what will you do that despite being a strong Hindu some day your child falls in love with someone of another faith and they don’t view it as disloyalty to their religion. Your son could believe that practicing his religion, the one that is important to you, and loving someone of another religion are not mutually exclusive. What will you do then? Disown him? What will that achieve? Aren’t you projecting what would bring you happiness onto your child and forcing him to conform?
I understand where you are coming from. My husband despite being born here is a staunch Hindu. So are his parents. And he’ll often say “I don’t care if my child marries out of the religion/race, as long as the person converts to Hinduism!” I think he’s crazy but considering we don’t have kids and haven’t gotten to that bridge it’s tough to fight over how to cross it at this point in time.
You need to look deep in your heart and ask yourself. What is more important? The way of life you want your son to follow becuase you think it’s right or your son’s happiness.
This is funny. The week I met my husband his parents had paid $1K for a puja to be performed so he could find a wife! We met 4 days before this puja happened but it’s overlooked in terms of stating faith in their god that “their son found someone because they paid $1K to god.” Shit I could have bought a entire summer wardrobe with $1K 🙂
i think we can all emphatize with the “curry & french fries” even as we question whether he has enough “cajones” or not. there are a lot of good suggestions here, i.e., talking about your b/gf, etc etc. i wanted to throw in my experience and perspective since someone asked about what it’s like to be an indian woman in this type of a situation.
when i was about 18 or 19, i sat down with my parents to tell them about a guy that i was dating. my poor mum, who never drinks, drank about half a margarita, and got tipsy and cried, “but you go to rutgers! with all the indian guys there, you had to date a KOREAN?!!!?” it was hard but i was very honest with them and said, “i will probably makes decisions that you don’t agree with but it’s really your choice – would you rather i keep you out of my life (by not talking about these things to them) or do you want to be a part of my life and recognize that you’ve taught me to make good decisions?” i also said that i didn’t enjoy lying to them and wanted to respect them by having an open, honest dialouge with them, since i cared about them. they were taken aback by this and had to concede that it was preferable to them to stay in my life and try to work on things together. then, i continued to talk about him and his good qualities like it was the most natural thing in the world, despite the fact they looked slightly displeased. i think this is something “curry” (damn, i wish he would would have picked a better nickname, don’t you?) hasn’t done yet with his parents.
then i dated quite a few people, most of them non-desi (and not white). i never talked to my parents about these guys because i couldn’t see any future with them and my parents still frowned on dating, in general. (for them, dating = sex, sex and sexin’!) 😉 now, i’m getting married to a non-desi in july. to a japanese guy, actually. it was hard in the beginning… my mum accused me of depriving of her “god given right” of finding me a husband. indian mums are SO melodramatic; she would put her forearm on her head and say, “oh, i need to go lie down. you don’t even care about my feelings.” (just thinking about this makes me laugh, it’s so theatrical).
anyway, the point is… they knew this was coming. we talked about it. i told them that they should realize that i wouldn’t bring someone home unless i thought there was some real future there and that they could get to know him just as i was so that when and if my now fiance and i decided to get married, they could feel good about the decision too. it’s all about selling it as a family scoping out the new guy. when we finally got engaged, they were thrilled and they love him now. it totally helps that he’s a considerate, great guy (and sooo cute).
a lot of these things would be more helpful to curry if he had laid the groundwork early on. it’s not too late for him but he has to decide, as the others said, how much of a future he sees with his gf and then makes a decision to stand up for her and his decision making abilities.
perhaps my parents aren’t quite as mean sounding as his, so it’s not a comparable example. either way, i think he needs to help them gain perspective on their behaviour by outlining what the consequences are of the way they think (i.e., no relationship with the son and his future family). btw, i don’t believe in disowning the parents, unless there is more emotional manipulation and abuse than the letter writer lets on.
anyway, the point of the story is… i’m pretty sure my parents think i have an asian fetish (ha ha)
gappa
86 · Janeofalltrades said
I think this is changing — my parents really care about my career, and are asking me to push off marriage as long as possible, to be really picky about the guy I end up with, and are happy for me to let somebody very successful leave if my professional plans have to be modified for having him in my life. At the same time, they would accept him if they knew it made me happy and if he was a mature, responsible, and considerate person. But I’ll tell you where all their energies are focused now — making sure I sure I ‘live up to my potential,’ pick and succeed in an appropriate career (I’m 23 if that is of any consequence). And I don’t think this is unusual at all these days (for many DBD girls and their parents at least)
Mogaya: “this sounds so terribly familiar! if its not the race then its the region/ language/ religion/ caste”
Put them all together – you’ve got me! well…technically…
My boyfriend’s from a different country, speaks a different language (english is his second language), is of a different race, has a different religion-his whole cultural background is different from mine. And my family accepted him…even my grandfather (yes, i lived with dear old pappy who spoiled me rotten). My granddad didn’t care that he was white – but he was concerned. Which i understood better than if he acted like all was well. He sat with me and told me all about boys these days, and how he saw on tv white men pretending to like black women and getting them in trouble with the law and all kinds of things, just because they not white. And he told me to be careful. Better conversation than i could’ve asked for! My mom too talked to me, but about real issues we would face as a couple, not about disowning.
My grandfather’s face when he first met my boyfriend was priceless-he shook my boyfriend’s hand and put the other hand on his shoulder and patted it – just cuz i wanna tell that story, it was so cute!
I do have lots of experience with the disowning and the silent treatment – but that’s from when i was dating a Muslim…
portmanteau, With all due respect you are 23 🙂 I would never expect any desi parents to not imbibe importance of education and putting off marriage for a 23 year old, son or daughter.
Educational and success expectations are always the same for kids but marriage expectations are more superficial in my opinion from what I’ve seen with daughters. Sons come with expectations not just off him but off his wife and a LOT of desis in the west stil practice the “some day we will live with our sons” mindset and they rather have a say in the wife he picks.
another good one that i used on my parents was when they wouldn’t stop bothering my older brother about getting a girlfriend:
mum & dad: why don’t you date a nice indian girl? bro: (silence) me: well, i was thinking… how about a nice indian guy? there are so many cute ones at rutgers. i mean, i was wondering, which is more preferable, a non desi girl or an indian guy? m&d: stare, stare, stare.. thinking how to reply. cursing themselves for “letting me be so independent” me & bro: howling and rolling on the floor with laughter
Oy, so many comments. Have not read them all, but, funny enough this is my EXACT situation right now. With the gora BF four 1/2 years, parents refuse to acknowledge his existence until I finish graduate school, so my brother and I have engineered having the BF come to graduation with the fam as a “very good friend”, so as to ease them in. A good girlfriend of mine is also going to dinner, but as a friend and not a human shield.
I thought it was because I’m a girl, but I guess it happens to boys too.
No kidding.
84 · kohlgirl said
Don’t feel sorry for them quite yet. I have just begun thinking about these things – nothing is set in stone yet. On whose soul is it question: that’s really not the point. It is about that thing I feel inside that I won’t be doing my job/fulfilling my responsibility as a parent if I don’t do my darndest to get my kids to stick with, defend, improve the way of life me and my forefathers have been defending and improving. That’s pretty high-sounding and probably rather stupid – but I feel what I feel.
Also, are your religious in the ‘do you read Gita regularly’ sense also doesn’t get to the point. There is so much more to the ‘way of life’ than reading Gita or doing puja. The lullabys, the stories, the role models, the festivals, the relationships, the food, where do I stop?
95 · Janeofalltrades said
I specifically mentioned DBD parents and DBD girls (should have made that more explicit). Their parents accepted their fact they’re going to be visitors in their daughters’ and sons’ homes. So for them it makes more sense to have professionally successful and financially independent kids (who can sponsor their visits and have room for them). Kids who’ll be able face eventualities without them, and also provide financial support to them, should they need it. In fact, financial support is the way a DBD living here substitutes actual facetime with parents (to a certain extent). And because of that the career expectations are becoming more symmetrical wrt to DBD sons and daughters.
and parents have the luxury of calling their kids too ‘modern’/’american.’ i know it’a dilemma. but the fact is, if you are raising your kids outside an environment where your religion, language, or culture is native, you have to take some hits to their exposure to culture, and your expectations of their behaviour within that culture, without it ever being your children’s fault. i value that my parents did a good deal to expose us to desi culture, but in the end, i think it is wholly unfair to expect your kids to do certain things exactly as they are done in india, when, in reality, they do not live in india. and let’s face it, their parents might even be more open to certain concepts had they remained in india – in fact, nobody ever considers you not ‘desi’ in india when you don’t know how to speak the language or choose not to follow the religion – they might still look down upon it, but it doesn’t come with the tag of ‘american.’ it’ a bit hypocritical, and something you should consider. so to this point, while i think you can map out a path, i do not think you can blame your kids for choosing a path that you voluntarily exposed them to by physically raising them in the states. i’m not saying you necessarily have to accept that path, but just don’t blame them – it’s already tough enough to straddle two cultures.
you also have to think about how your children will view hinduism – while you might hypothetically, e.g., have a narrow conception of hinduism and its practise, your child might be more into the philosophy and end up with an interpretation that might be a bit too liberal/’modern’ for your taste. but since it was you who endorsed your child to study hinduism, it might be a situation that you neither intended nor like, but wholly created.
lol. since i’m in tax, i can only help but think that this is very much like the cash vs accrual methods – in the latter, it doesn’t matter if you haven’t actually paid out the cash yet, so long as you are due to!