A friend of mine emailed me this photograph of a mini-dosa from a desi restaurant’s lunch buffet in Davis Square:
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It’s not the size of the dosa that counts, it’s the flavour of the filling |
From a restauranteur’s perspective, this innovation makes perfect sense. You can’t serve everybody a dosa, it’s too large. And you can’t serve dosa slices either. Enter the mini-dosa, everybody gets dosaed, the restaurant has less waste, everybody goes home happy right?
And while we’re on the topic of alternadosas, how about totally American fillings like “Grilled Chicken with Goat Cheese, Spinach and Roasted Tomatoes” or “Tuna with Cilantro Chutney Dressing, Avacado, Arugala & Tomato“?
Are these reasonable innovations or travesties wrought by American commerce on the fine traditions of Madrasi South Indian cooking? In other words, is it a shanda like the bagel stick with the cream cheese inside, AKA the bagel Twinkie?
Ever toast, spread cream cheese on, and eat a bagel, and be like, damn, this is taking too long? Kraft’s Bagelfuls, essentially, a bagel Twinkie, are for you. A “Bagelful” is a frozen bagel tube with cream cheese inside. They’re kept in the refrigerator and then toasted, microwaved, or even eaten straight from the box. [Link]
How do we tell when a departure from beloved tradition is actually progress?
49 · Manvantara said
I’ve heard the ‘punjabi’ tag being applied to North Indians a lot of times. My point is that this ‘ignorance’ is present pretty much everywhere, be it in the North or in the South.
This is increasingly common in the IT cities of South India, where ‘Northies’ are sometimes accused of the same. Prejudice is widespread.
From what i recall.
Punjabi was generic for Northern Indian food esp. non-veg. Never used to refer to people. “Bihari”, on the other hand, had a whole different connotation, although it was used very often with hostel mates who thought all Goans were “beudas” 🙂
Damn, where can one get a “consistently” good dosa in l.a?
which restaurant in davis square was this? I hope it’s not the same one we all had to boycott a while back because of feeling unwelcome?
is paru’s still open in la? it’s (was?) run by a tam-brahm family and though i’ve never eaten there, it’s supposedly quite good.
on the north-south issue, many people from different parts of the south are prob. guilty of the same thing as labeling all people from the southern states just ‘south’ indian. for example, maharahstrians do not consider themselves north indian (and depending on whom you ask, they even consider themselves a part of southern india) but because they live just north of karnataka, most people from the south would consider them north indians.
..i totally agree. who in tn calls them punjabi? even while being chased by pathan suit wearin funny talkin north indian money lenders on bicyles, or while teasing the lascivious-marwadi-munchkins in the sowkarpet(s), we madrasis always take care to call them by their proper name… seth, or sethji, or when you get to know their real names-natwarlal.
Diva
ugh… sounds like diva. it may be that i’ve been out of the uni-environment for too long, but the service in the three places i tried in that neighborhood was less than stellar. it was a little funny actually. i was with a buddy at diva. After being ignored several times i managed to rassle a guy down as he was passing by and got him to pour me some water. my buddy had a question on the menu and is wanting to grab the waiter’s attention but our man is not looking at the table and seems to be staring into the distance. then he finishes pouring and generally ambles off into the darkness while buddy desperately tries to catch his attention by waving arm and menu – i cracked up of course. The food was nothing to write home about.
namaskar servce was also … makes grunting sound quite meh … the tibetan resto across the street called martsa has marginally better service tho.
The term “South Indian” for a person from the south of India is a fact, a geographical inevitability. A convenience I can live with. The problem is with the word “Madrasi”, word used by North Indians, often insultingly, to refer to South Indians.
Actually, Northies in Bangalore aren’t accused of stealing jobs. They’re accused of being crass, money-minded, loud and expecting everybody to speak in Hindi. Prejudice is widespread and multifarious.
Sorry Manvantara, I just saw your comment, you put “Madrasi” in context much better than I did.
Where is India’s Mason-Dixie line and what is it called?
61 · Neale said
the vindhayas are usually thought of as the great divide. also: the madrasis marry their uncles much like the red-necks.
59 · Minkey Chief said
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Interesting you should say that Minkey Chief… A friend who just returned from a visit to Bangalore told me of an auto driver who practically wept for joy because she spoke Kannada. Considering that Bangalore’s auto drivers are made entirely of old leather and rusted nails, it becomes a rather poignant social comment.
have you tried “cocktail” idlis? that’s what the ‘kitty’ party circuit calls them – they’re cute, if rather pointless as the maza of the idli is in their soaking of the sambar juices…
Cocktail idlis are very very nice when they’re stuffed, with minced meat for instance 🙂
“Madrasi” is funny, given that even Madras doesn’t exist anymore. I don’t know how something from Chennai would be referred now. Chennaie?
Being called a “Madrasi” would offend a lot of Telugus, since the separate state (and identity) required hard fight and sacrifice of a life. It is as much fun as being called a “paki” if you are an Indian – derogatory and untrue.
Dosa is common cuisine for all rice-growing states. Small dosas are traditional ones. Large dosas were introduced just to attract people to restaurants. Family dosa was fun and exciting compared to home-made small dosas. Now, the small dosa trend sounds like going back to roots. 😉
40 · NANDKISHORE said
gee, that was so meta. a dosa is a dosa is a dosa. well done! to think that i missed the subtle gertrude stein reference.
59 · Minkey Chief said
That’s even worse.
62 · portmanteau said
You forgot that we’re also born knowing how to play the Indian banjo or fiddle, drive broken-down cars (except they’re Premier Padminis and not pick-ups) and wear wifebeaters in public.
OK, a certain amount of historical perspective seems to be missing from the discussion here. Let’s beat up on prejudice in any form, especially ethno-geographic, linguistic or racial. But let’s not completely forget history.
There really was a place called Madras once upon a time (in India). It started off as a ‘Presidency’ under the British administration. And the Presidency was really large. It included most of what is today Tamil Nadu, parts of what are today Andhra Pradesh, some northern districts of what is now Karnataka, as well as some areas that are now in Kerala. By colonial cartographic magic, the boundaries of Madras Presidency denied both the ‘princely state’ of Mysore and the ‘princely state’ of Hyderabad access to the coast, denied a hinterland to the princely state of Travancore, and prevented the three from sharing any boundaries! It was, in short, really huge.
Anyway, the result was that the ancestors of many people who are now Keralites, Karnatakans (to invent an adjective) and Andhras were once in Madras Presidency, and thus ‘Madrasis’ in the colonial usage. In addition there were people who are now in Tamil Nadu. So that is how ‘all South Indians’ came to be called ‘Madrasis’, during the colonial regime, a usage that survived, it seems, even longer in the diaspora, though of course diaspora are excused from detailed historical knowledge of the home country 🙂
There was also a state called ‘Madras’ till sometime in the early 1970s, and a city called Madras till sometime in the 1980s. So ‘Madrasi’ could legitimately apply to someone from those geographical entities, and no offence could be meant.
There is still a place called Madras in Oregon, as I once noted in another comment on SM.
There’s a good reason why many S.Indians (SI) refer to NI as “Punjabis”. The reason is that many NI identify themselves as being Punjabis even when they are not! I can give you some examples: I knew a guy surnamed as “Gupta”, and he identified himself as being a Punjabi. However, behind close doors, without telling me that his family was from the UP, he’d lament on the “UP bhaya” perception inherent in all Indians.
Another case: I was at an Indian friend’s wedding 4 years ago, and at my table were 2 American-born NI kids. The girl was a 21 year old girl surnamed as “Singh”, but she was Hindu. The boy was an American born ‘Uttar Pradeshi’ as well, and the 2 were family friends. I remember that this girl was teaching/convincing him that they were Punjabis, and this boy, who was like 12, was confused, and he told her that both of their family was from UP and not Punjabi. For some reason, this girl really didn’t want to be identified as a UP girl, but as a Punjabi, and she was trying to convince that young boy the same thing.
Finally, I’ve noticed that a Uttar Pradeshi is happy with being labeled as a Punjabi, and from my 2 examples above, they even seem to advocate this. This is especially true amongst people from Delhi (aka “Doabi”), as even the people who’ve had nothing to do with Punjab in historical times all of a sudden claim that they are Punjabis.
This is because all NI films/Bollywood have Punjabi actors/actresses playing the rolls of Punjabis. Even the light-skinned SIs, like Ash Rai, plays a “Grewal” (Jatt Sikh Punjabi), but none of her rolls allow her to play a “Nayyar” or a “Reddy”. So, implicitly, the movie industry will have us believe that being a UP is not good enough and SI is surely not good enough.
Oh yeah, if you read the Wikipedia article on Gujarat or of the castes within Gujarat, you’ll get the impression that they, too, are dying to be included into the Punjabi/Scythian/Georgian/Kazakhstan fold. I’m not kidding you one bit. They try and create a common link between themselves and Punjabis, but they don’t want to include the possibility that they have GASP Dravidian genetics.
45 · brown_dbd said
On the flip side, I’ve heard a lot of South Indians use the word “Punjabi” or “Punjus” when talking about North Indians in general. UP, Bihar, Rajasthan, Delhi, Himachal, Harayana, Jammu-Kashmir etc are all clubbed together !
62 · portmanteau said
At least we don’t kill baby girls and try to become a homo erotic society. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Or is there?
Actually, Madras state was renamed Tamilnadu in late 60s and Madras city was renamed in late 90s. Other than that what you said is right. There are valid reasons for South Indians to be called “Madrasis” by the North Indians (hangover from colonial times).
The reason why people are offended by the usage is because (I suspect) of the portrayal of “Madrasis” in Hindi movies / Bollywood of yesteryears.
Wow, that was so meta-meta. To not only notice a subtle reference, but make bloody well sure that we noticed you notice. To think I missed the subtle transfer of glory.
72 · Sil said
ok, i was just kidding. there is this tendency to reduce every cultural practice or reference to its american equivalent; however, much of the valence is, of course, lost in translation.
i do, however, thank shiva everyday that the love of my life doesn’t have a female cross-cousin 😉
Just as there are valid reasons for Indians to be called Subjects of Her Majesty?
74 · The G-Man said
son, i let my parents know at every opportunity that my liberal arts education wasn’t a complete vaste of time. cuz i classy like that.
Both groups marry their first cousins. I’m not sure about South Indians marrying their uncles.
72 · Sil said
..untrue! we madrasis have an american style call option to marry our neices (option price ~ zero, maybe one plate betelnut leaves, and some bajjis+bananas)..that we evaluate constantly against our portfolios on iyengarmatrimony.com and iyerbootycalls.org.
port- don’t dismiss lightly the complex evolutionary processes that have gone towards making these norms. There is a reason for the suave, hyper-smug tambram male-and you can usually find its photo in the folds of his lungi..
Re #62: also: the madrasis marry their uncles much like the red-necks
–that was quite an uncalled for comment. The discussion was about the word “Madrasi” and why that makes some of us (Madrasis) squirm a bit (and I explained it was because there was a tone of derision/condescension all the times I have heard it from a north Indian). With comment #70, chachaji has explained why the term “Madrasi” was used to mean everyone from the south (though that does not explain the condescension). I have numerous south Indian friends who grew up in the north and were made fun of for being from the south, with statements like “the dark one from the south”, for instance.
I don’t think there is any need to start throwing any mud here.
How about a male cross-dresssing-cousin 😉
70 · chachaji said
Er, so…? Are we validating the term Madrasi then (derogatory, irrelevant and unpopular though it may be)?
Bloody supercilious Iyengars thinking that their mating is worth a .com profit label, whereas Iyers have to resort to trolling in the freegan, dumpster-diving non-profit world.
79 · dingchak said
yeah, so some tamil females (nieces) do marry their uncles, assuming the option is exercised.
. dc, you will be happy to know that i heartily appreciate the complex evolutionary processes that have produced what lies beneath the folds of certain tambram lungis 🙂
Hang down your head Portmanteau, hand down your head and cry. You inflicted humour on the take-themselves-uber-serious and now you’re bound to die.
I think the question is, from when the term turned derogatory. I don’t think there is any harm in calling the people from the Madras state as “Madrasi”.
Port-are you sure? what about male cousins? the bi-yengars of kerala are allowed to marry the first cousin of either sex- its an old madrasi tradition..wiki it.
80 · Manvantara said
manvantara, i humbly direct you to comment #75.
86 · Ponniyin Selvan said
No need to insinuate that we Madrasis are darkies.
Sorry that was comment no. 70
Rahul, LOL!
And enough about you already back to me! (Unless “G” in G-man represents a certain talent for …um….accuracy.) A dosa by any other name would taste as sweet and buttery?
87 · dingchak said
dc, i’m hoping my fair settuponnu charms have ensnared him.
A Madrasi by any other name would taste as sweet, and, er, buttery.
Maybe he’s just hoping you’re indeed his long lost cousin, who was separated from him at birth right before the child marriage ceremony, and he yearns for his wonk-eyed Lalita Pawar Mrs. Gomes nanny to reunite the two of you by singing your favority lullaby/love-song.
..only if he’s from an iyengar bakery..
Note: I’m not defending the folks who use “Madrasi” in derogatory terms.
Some habits are hard to change esp. with names. I know many people who still use Bombay, Madras and Calcutta instead of Mumbai, Chennai and Kokota and I’m sure people will be using Bangalore instead of Bengaluru for decades to come. It is possible that some folks still use “Madrasi” just like that.
Again, I suspect, the term turned derogatory with the portrayal of “madrasis” in the Hindi movies or with the anti-Hindi protests of the early 60s..
71 · boston_mahesh said
Nayyars and Reddies can be fat too!
Finally, I’ve noticed that a Uttar Pradeshi is happy with being labeled as a Punjabi, and from my 2 examples above, they even seem to advocate this. This is especially true amongst people from Delhi (aka “Doabi”), as even the people who’ve had nothing to do with Punjab in historical times all of a sudden claim that they are Punjabis.
That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard on SM. Btw, have you ever been to Delhi? New Delhi is majority Punjabi. Speaking of UP, I have NEVER heard anybody refer to themselves as Punjabis. People in Western UP are mostly jatts and they dont refer to themselves as Punjabis but as Jatts, Gujjurs whatever.
Right. He also said, in the second sentence of his comment:
It is not the term itself that should be the focus, but the underlying prejudice. You can bet the same prejudice will transfer itself to the geographically correct ‘South Indian’ or the linguistically exact ‘Tamilian’ if the underlying prejudice remains.
On a heartening note, the Governor of Tamil Nadu is a Sikh Punjabi, Thiru Surjit Singh Barnala.