What does it mean to get tanned when you’re brown to begin with? This is a question particular in some ways to South Asians living in northern countries — where you don’t get much exposure to sunlight much of the year, and where you are surrounded by friends and colleagues who do take pride in “getting a tan.” (In India, home of “Fair and Lovely” ointments, there is no culture of tanning.)
This came up for me because I recently went on a short vacation with my family in the Caribbean. We went to the north coast of the Dominican Republic (a major tourist destination, I know). We rented a small villa near, but not in, one of the massive resorts that dominate the “Silver Coast.” Quite nice, overall, and restful.
I didn’t actively seek to get a tan, but I definitely came back a lot darker than I was when we left. My wife also got quite dark, and even my 18 month old son got a bit darker, though we were careful to keep his delicate skin protected wherever possible from direct sunlight.
Now, I generally like getting a bit tan — it seems to bring out some rich orange tones in my “brown” complexion. And I’m certainly not one of those people who would ever say that fairer skin is more appealing than darker skin. There are many different ways of being beautiful, and I find the desi obsession with skin tone (especially as it indexes with the matrimonials culture) tedious and embarrassing. (And sometimes tragic, as in this recent story posted on the News Tab)
Nor is it the case that getting tanned is new to me: living on the east coast of the U.S., one generally finds one’s skin tone in August to be a few shades darker than it was in May, even if you’re one of those people who tends to hide indoors in front of books and/or a computer 95% of the time.
But here’s the odd part. On occasion, over the past couple of days since coming back, I’ve found myself feeling slightly embarrassed to be so tan — as if part of me is thinking, “wait, everyone, this isn’t my normal skin tone!” And then I’m immediately embarrassed to be embarrassed — because what the initial embarrassment perhaps reveals is an unconscious skin tone bias that comes out if and when one’s skin tone does in fact become darker. (More forgivingly, it might simply be that one is always embarrassed to look a little different from how one normally looks.)
Has anyone else ever been embarrassed to be tan? Or conversely, are there desi readers who particularly enjoy seeing their skin get tanned?
Largest temple in NY, oldest in US: Flushing: Main Deity: Ganesh Black Granite Largest temple in NJ: Bridgewater: Main Deity: Balaji: Black Granite Largest temple in PA: Pittsburgh: Main Deity: Balaji: Black Granite
Temple with most worshipers in India: Tirupati Main Deity: Balaji: Black Granite
Where do you come up with whole blue eyed thing?
If you are so bothered about blue –eyed gods, learn more about your own culture – ask your family about your family deity for example. I bet you will like the results.
As for actors: Our Rajni is the equal of more than a hundred so called North Indian Heros. Mind it :-).
Deemz (#95), solid comments. Although personally I like most white people just fine.
So to me, it was much more than aping the superficial aspects of popular AA culture and listening to biggie and tupac, while simultaeonusly referring to blacks as “gorillas” under their breath as many brown kids in fact do.
Alot of them also use a certain N-word over and over again, And they speak in that mix of punjabi-ebonics-english hybrid which is very painful to the ears.
And finally, to me being whitewashed isn’t about the style of music you listen to or the clothes that you wear, but of being disconnected from your own culture and accepting western culture as its superior. It’s also about being wholly ignorant and insulated from the world and assuming western values are universal (or should be). I won’t attach a positive or negative connotation to this definition of whiteness, it’s just how I feel about it.
Well then this is an issue that we disagree on. I guess with the things that I have had to go through with my life has led me become to believe that people need to make some effort to intergrate and asslimate into western society. I just get annoyed how many times I hear people who from a middle east/south asian background and when they get to the west talk about how the western country has no culture and how things are much better back home.
Living in Vancouver which has the biggest south asian population in North America, I get frustrated at how many of the people who have come in the last decade are living in 1950’s punjabi village view of the world.
Hey Suki,
I don’t think we disagree all that much. I actually agree with you that people should “make some effort to intergrate and asslimate into western society”, but at the same time, not to the point where you forget where you came from and shun your own cultural inheritance. That just seems like a tremendous waste to me. Again, people are free to do whatever I want…
But the way I see it is that living in the western world is a great opportunity, to pick and choose your values, to explore different cultures, to sit back and reflect on the good and bad of your own mother culture, and to share with others.
Of course that can’t be done if you only want to stay around your “own kind”. But it also can’t be done if you want to live exactly like the mainstream to the point where you are embarassed of your own people, or whatever.
There’s got to be some balance.
So I choose to cherish my cultural heritage AND my upbringing in the West.. I would like to think it’s given me a broader understanding of the human condition and made me into a more thoughful person.
&nd for the record I don’t hate white people, some of my best friends are white, hahaha
Of course that can’t be done if you only want to stay around your “own kind”. But it also can’t be done if you want to live exactly like the mainstream to the point where you are embarassed of your own people, or whatever.
My main issue is the that I live in Canada and have alot of family in the United States. My family in the States has done a perfect balance of the two cultures. Where as in Canada, alot of the punjabi immigrants make no effort to learn anything about Canada. They move into all punjabi neighborhoods, shop in punjabi markets, get there satellite dishs for the indian channels and make no effort to learn english, cause they don’t need to.
One thing I have noticed is that of all the western countries, the United States does not have the problem with honor killings among its south asian/middle eastern population that other western countries seem to do.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the United States wanted immigrants to intergrate more then other western countries or the level of education of its immigrants from that part of the world. The media in the US would have a field day with stories about honor killings, but have nothing to report.
Multicultrism is bad for south asian women, cause its prevents mainstream women groups from helping them.
That’s so funny — it sounds like your interest parallels the regionalism, especially of Punjabi dialects, on the Indian half as well.
Vyasa=Prema? Just asking.
I think one the biggest factors when it comes to an immigrant community’s level of “integration” into a host country is where they live. If they’re all clumped together, then it’s likely that they won’t integrate whereas if they’re spread out a bit more and have to have neighbors from other communities, they’re more likely to mix in. Also, differences in the incoming group’s income and level of education would probably play a role too.
So I think that’s the difference between the South Asian community in the U.S. versus the ones in the UK or Vancouver, BC. The South Asian community in the U.S. is just spread out a lot more and are relatively more affluent and educated. My experience is one of having fairly open minded parents, living in an overwhemingly non-desi community. I didn’t have a choice, I had to integrate, but I tried not to do it at the expense of forgeting where I came from – the pind yaar.
When I was growing up, I remember some Indian Aunties (even my Mom’s sister) would cover their faces with facial powder and/or foundation that was several shades lighter than their real skin tone. Maybe they did that to make themselves look more fair but it really looked hideous. Or perhaps they were/are going for the mime or Kiss (the rock group) look.
I’m the dark one in the family. I was constantly advised to wear clothes in pastels and beiges while my light-skinned sister was told that everything looked good on her.
Been there, got over that.
Now, living in sunny Melbourne, I get tanned during the summer. I find it disconcerting at times but it doesn’t stop me from going outdoors. Why disconcerting? Well, for one thing, when I get tanned I don’t look darker, I look darkened, as thought I’d been wearing a foundation three times darker. Makes mine nose look funny. 🙂 I will also admit reluctantly that, despite my loving my skin-colour, there is sometimes a brief jolt when I see my brown-black wrists. Conditioning runs deep.
Good points, dizzydesi (post #101). I will keep my brown eyes open for this blue-eyed Hindu deities that Boston Mahesh alludes to.
Tangent-alert. This is not an attempt at re-igniting the old DBD vs. ABD thing, but a general observation. For all the Fair and Lovely’s, matrimonial ads and annoying aunts in India, I find that DBD’s in the 20-40 age-group (one of the largest sections of the Indian population) are not nearly as obsessed with color as are ABD’s in the same age category.
I have no data to support this, (so please hold the flames) except to say that most matrimonial ads are sent by the parents of the propsective brides/grooms, not the b/g’s themselves. Also, naming a blog after your skin color (even if it represents pride) is not something a group of DBD’s would typically do. Mind you, it doesn’t bother me at all. I am here, aren’t I? 🙂
On second thoughts, flame away. I need the tan. 🙂 Tennis league 2008 hasn’t started in NY yet, y’know.
Totally separate contexts and therefore no comparison…for ABDs, the allusion to skin color in this blog’s name has nothing to with attitudes about desi skin tone, but is more a nod to our asserting our more confident 2nd gen desi identity in what (was) the overwhelmingly white mainstream many of us grew up in. I think.
Can you sketch out your opinion a little bit further? I’m not sure that multiculturalism (however defined) implies ghettoization. So it does not necessarily mean that South Asian women would be excluded from the help of mainstream feminist NGOs. It is also possible that mainstream NGOs lack some of the expertise and familiarity needed to deal with the peculiarities of South Asian womens’ problems.
Can you sketch out your opinion a little bit further? I’m not sure that multiculturalism (however defined) implies ghettoization. So it does not necessarily mean that South Asian women would be excluded from the help of mainstream feminist NGOs. It is also possible that mainstream NGOs lack some of the expertise and familiarity needed to deal with the peculiarities of South Asian womens’ problems.
Alot of people are not gonna want to hear this. But when it comes to violence in the south asian/ middle eastern ccommunities in the west, alot of it is due to backward sexist cultural beliefs. But the problem is that most of the mainstream women rights groups suffer from white guilt, and would dare not say anything that backward cultural views are reason for the violence.
Late last year a 16 year old pakistan girl was killed by her father who not wearing the hijab in Toronto. I can recall reading a editorial not long after that by a muslim women who said that very thing.
I hate my dark tan so much, I even get my creme unbrulee.
Yes.
Deemz, just wanted to point out that ‘standard’ Lahori Punjabi itself is barely surviving the onslaught of Urdu. Although there are indications that things might have improved in recent years, with people becoming less self-conscious and embarrassed of speaking Punjabi.
SD unabridged: “Backward good grammar fancyfancy mult-culti arabosouthasian Muslims don’t assimilate and cause problem and there never pulling up…”
But when it comes to violence in the south asian/ middle eastern ccommunities in the west, alot of it is due to backward sexist cultural beliefs. But the problem is that most of the mainstream women rights groups suffer from white guilt, and would dare not say anything that backward cultural views are reason for the violence.
look, south asian and middle eastern men are not responsible for violence. it’s white racism ultimately. people of color have no power, so what can they do? the problem is the violence which white racists force people of color into to make up for their powerlessness.
Late last year a 16 year old pakistan girl was killed by her father who not wearing the hijab in Toronto. I can recall reading a editorial not long after that by a muslim women who said that very thing.
the problem was not islam, it was domestic violence, pure and simple. muslim women are pearls, and they respect their bodies so they should cover every inch of it. it is unfortunate that that girl had to be killed, but the problem is not a cultural system where men value the virginity and honor of women, we should always treat women as extensions of male patrilineal status as most muslim cultures do, rather it was that particular man’s ends….
I believe this is what is called a holier-tan-thou attitude.
thank you razib for sarcastic victimology 101, lol..
anyhoo, i just don’t get this all or nothing attitude towards cultural values. yes, there are some fuckd up things about desi culture from our gender issues to colourism, but that doesn’t mean you to have throw your heritage out of the window completely. you’re living here, you have a brain, so you can pick and choose.
and here’s a thought, just maybe mainstream groups are not the best ones to deal with conflicts within a community they don’t understand, maybe it’s up to us, those that do understand the issues, to fix things. it will probably work better than turning your nose up towards the community and relying on “guilt ridden” whites to help.
“This could all be dismissed as harmless self-delusion except that its not. It speaks of a deep-seated self-loathing and inferiority complex that manifests itself in contempt for each other based on a metric in which desis are congenitally handicapped to begin with. It just makes desis look pitiful and contemptible.”
lighten up. (no offense meant). Spare some pity for all those freckled folks who love the beach and need a tan. Anybody with any internal dialog going on will regard themselves and others with a degree of ambiguity–shades of gray or, considering this blog, brown. Only the thoughtless or stupid are possessed of unalloyed self-satisfaction. “Tan” is one of those words that just depends on context and has taken on its own meaning. It means getting darker as a result of exposure to the elements. That’s all. Because it first became fashionable (ironically) on the beaches of Europe and America, naturally for them darker usually meant “tan.” It may be an Americanism because Brits tend to say “a bit brown”. In pre-20th c. English lit, a white person might be described as “black” or “brown” in a certain context simply because they had particularly dark hair and eyes or dark eyebrows. When I was in Lebanon, brown haired people would get described as “blond” which confused me to no end. It’s all relative.
so you can pick and choose.
choice is a eurocentric construct. free your mind!
one more thing–who are these blond, blue-eyed Hindu deities somebody was bitching about? Lisa Ray? Yoga kitsch?
126 · on the beach said
gwen stefani
Deems: I think that it is commendable that you’ve taken an interest in your preIslamic History. The Persians are VERY proud of their Zoroastrian past, and as a result, they seem very culturally confiden.
I am also very interested in ore ’47 Punjab. What kind of pre-’47 relics can a person find in potohar?
97 · deemz said
To examine the ‘pre-Islamic’ history of that region you’d have to go back much further than 1947…that area has been Muslim-majority for a few centuries at least. And their majority kept getting bigger with time. However, even as late as 1947 Sikhs/Hindus were probably at least 15-20% of the local population. And even the Muslims there were largely the descendants of local Hindu and (in an earlier era) Buddhist Potoharis. Many of the Muslims there are Rajputs. Hindu cultural practices, especially pertaining to weddings and festivals, were well-entrenced in the local Muslim population as well. Which is something that has eroded rapidly in the post-1947 scenario.
Not just Potohar, but other regions reflected quite a strong non-Muslim influence on the cultural practices of Muslims in what was to become Pakistan. Take Vaisakhi for example. Of course it gained huge significance for Sikhs after the formation of the Khalsa…but it was around much before that, and is a deeply-ingrained folk festival of the region. Muslims used to celebrate it with gusto. It was part of their cultural heritage. However after 1947, Vaisakhi was celebrated less and less in Pakistan, until it finally died out in the 1970s. I believe Zia and his push for Islamicization helped in eliminating a LOT of non-Muslim behavior in Pakistan. But it was inevitable once that nation got created anyway…the Mullahs and the politicians saw to that.
You know, new generations arise, and think that things must always have been they way they are now…they often don’t realise just how much things have changed over time.
For example take this song. You’d think it’s a rural southern thing. And in fact it HAS been a rural southern thing for decades. But look what Wikipedia has to say about it:
So this song was once known even in Canada…but could you ever guess that now? Similarly, looking at Pakistan now you could never imagine the cultural practices of a hundred years ago.
thank God for hip-hop, Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Different World, the Autobiography of Malcolm X… and the general concept of ‘black is beautiful’… I feel like I would have grown up worshipping the white aesthetic like so many of my fellow South Asians who think assimiliation is the highest goal one should strive for.
No? Why do we have Indian girls dreaming of white weddings?
You know who I love? Those Indians who feel they always have to defend white people… do you guys know who I’m referring to? I always feel like what they’re really defending is the confusion they feel about growing up worshipping the white aesthetic 🙁
81 · Camille said
So does that mean no tan lines? 😉
I suppose black people in this country don’t have white weddings?
I for one have never considered assimilation as the highest goal. But then neither has the historical experience or cultural heritage of black people in this country moved me to my core or changed my life as it has for some of you. I don’t worship Whites but by no means do I worship African Americans either. Much respect to them though, they’ve produced a rich culture in some very adverse circumstances.
I have defended whites on occasion on this board not because of confusion but because people here dump on them too much sometimes, in my opinion. Culturally I would agree that many of their pracices, attitudes, and behaviors leave me cold…and I have no wish to assimilate to those specific things at least. But that definitely goes for Afican Americans too, and for that matter some aspects of desi mentality too. But Whites are not the root cause of all evil in America, and I have never felt anything but accepted and welcomed by them. Everyday I go to work in predominantly white environments, and am met with nothing but friendliness, warmth, and respect. Have there been the occasional moments when I’ve been made to feel different? Yes…but no one’s perfect, and I know our own desi folks can treat people a lot worse.
OK, I know the anti-white brigade is going to skewer me for these commments…bracing myself…can we still talk about Potohar a little?
Suki/Clueless, I think this is the ultimate “Indo-Canadian” coming-of-age video.
Suki/Clueless, I think this is the ultimate “Indo-Canadian” coming-of-age video.
That 5 minutes of my life that I’m never gonna get back.
OK, I know the anti-white brigade is going to skewer me for these commments
Where is HMF? He has posted on SM for awhile now, I almost miss him.
You know who I love? Those Indians who feel they always have to defend white people… do you guys know who I’m referring to? I always feel like what they’re really defending is the confusion they feel about growing up worshipping the white aesthetic 🙁
It good to be loved.
I get embarrassed when white people pass around the tanning lotion, and usually refuse, saying I have a natural tan. Pretty stupid — the last time I did that was on the ski slopes, and I spent the next two weeks rubbing burnt skin off my face.
Where is HMF? He has posted on SM for awhile now, I almost miss him.
;=) antibiotics cures gonorrhea. eventually.
After spending a month in India, including 3 days on the beach in Goa, it means my even my own grandmother (bless her and her both literal and figurative myopia) doesn’t recognize me and wants to know why I chose to get so “kala.” The real question is, are desis obligated to update their shaadi.com profile pic after a vacation spent under the sun?
Amitabh, I’ve been meaning to point you to a post a friend of mine blogged that touched on your favorite call to arms. Things are allegedly changing, for the better.
Classic, but I think you might find you need to speak your intended audiences’ language, even if they themselves are illiterate.
132 · Jangali Jaanwar said
Stop distracting Amitabh, he wants to talk about Potohar 😉
[Sorry Amitabh, sometimes I just can’t resist.]
Deemz, you rock. Many Indian kids in the US (and Canada? not sure as I did not grow up there) sort of end up identifying with the white/majority culture because that’s usually the easiest thing for kids to do – most kids want to be part of things, and not stand out to others. I have actually known Indians who insist, because we are technically classified as Caucasians, that they are white, despite the obvious proof to the contrary staring them in the face from a mirror. I do think that this kind of automatic default to identification with the majority (or its converse, total failure to assimilate) is really detrimental to adding all the great things from Indian culture to the melting pot.
I agree also that if you come from a working class background in India, maybe you are more sensitive to these issues. My family from Kerala is from the one of the lowest caste you can be without actually being untouchable (and as my mom says, the distinction was always more important to us than anyone else.) All my aunts/uncles/cousins are now doctors/dentists/engineers, etc. But our success was built on the backs of the men and women who worked in the fields to get us here. The best and kindest man I know, my great uncle (an airplane mechanic who made sure my dad went to college after his own father died) is black as the proverbial ace of spades. So I really hate it when I hear those “darkie” comments (and bring on the sun!)
So I totally understand why you might explore non-Euro based American culture as a way of figuring out where you fit on the race and culture spectrum.
You get me…you really get me…sniff sniff…
Thanks DJ Drrrty, that was cool to read.
122 · Rahul said
Are you going on a tangent or is this relevant to the topic?
“I’m sick of blue-eyed, white-skinned Indian goddesses/gods and white elephants.”
How about White Buffalo Calf Woman? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Buffalo_Calf_Woman Does she get a pass?
Not to mention polar bears…
I’m amazed at the similarities between colourism within the Indian community and lipophobia/sizism within white (North American) society. In both cases, a largely genetic, minimally (and, usually at most, temporarily) alterable human characteristic is imbued with immense value, in spite of the fact that it’s ‘functional’ character, in-and-of-itself, is almost negligible (darker skin does offer a bit of protection against skin cancer, and fatness is associated with a slightly longer lifespan and improved illness survival rates). In both cases, people are often willing to do dangerous things (toxic skin-lightening creams; dangerous calorie-restriction, extreme exercise, and/or bariatric surgery) to meet those social ideals, despite ample evidence that these activities may cause debility or death. In each case, those deemed ‘afflicted’ become the targets of systematic social and occupational discrimination, and often blatant ridicule. ‘Glowing’ white skin and thinness are both upheld as markers of ‘good health’ (despite the lack of supporting evidence for this) and both offer tickets to upward social mobility, especially for women. Dark skin and fatness, in the Indian and white communities respectively, often become the ‘gatekeeper’ qualities for romantic/marital relationship possibilities; i.e., a woman will often not be considered as a potential partner, regardless of her other qualities, if she is perceived as ‘dark’ or ‘fat’.
Areem, it seems that the beauty ideal is really defined by that which is unattainable or difficult to attain for the majority – and it’s been that way for many centuries and for many different cultures. The ideal changes as the level of difficulty does – whether or not it’s healthy never seems to factor in. Perhaps all we can do is follow your example by realizing just how ridiculous it all is and/or we can follow the example of Deemz who says that what’s beautiful is what looks like him ; )
89 Suki Dillon said
R&B is my favorite genre of music, ranging Motown to Funk, Quiet Storm to New Jack Swing, as well as contemporary artists like Usher and Brian McKnight. My siblings and cousins tend to make fun of the music I like, which really annoy me. Funny thing is, most of them are in to hip-hop, but they think R&B is nonsense.
i def used to avoid/be uncomfortable with getting a tan- the idea is present in me from desis/family but also from general american society whose idea of beauty is pretty white. to try to get away from this idea of fair/pale=more beautiful, i tried to consciously counter it with the opposite thoughts. and it has been kind of working, like i have been noticing the desi and black women who have beautifully rich, dark dark brown, glowing, gorgeous skin and i’m like wow! but then i’m like i wish my skin wasn’t so light! (my skin is probably somewhere in the middle for desis?). i feel like now i have gone in the opposite direction
I ain’t going, I’m quite a tan gent myself.