One of the things that marks me as an ABD is the fact that the Indian national anthem leaves me cold. Largely that’s because I don’t identify as an Indian politically, but it’s also in part because most national anthems don’t move me. The Star Spangled Banner, for example, is a horrible song. I feel something when I hear it only because I am an American and am conditioned to do so, but honestly I’d far rather have a song like the Marseillaise which is actually catchy.
The first rendition of Jana Gana Mana is sung phonetically by Kenyans who make it sound a bit like church music – it loses the rhythm that it has when Indians sing it, but it becomes etherial and quite haunting (courtesy Chick Pea):
The second rendition is A.R. Rehman’s bombastic cover, as if John Phillip Sousa decided to set a lullaby to 24 tubas:
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Do you guys have a favorite version of the anthem? How about the other regional national anthems (none of which I know) – Pakistan? Bangladesh? Lanka? Nepal? Afghanistan? Feel free to share youtube links but no rickrolling please …
Forget the Kenyans. Somebody should get Marvin to rock the Indian National Anthem.
If you watch closely enough, you can see Obama booing the National Anthem in Chicago.
Also who cheers for war this loudly?
I don’t know why some of us don’t move with national anthem, I studied in Pilani in small school for 10 years, and every year we would sing national anthem only twice, you know the dates, well the word ” BHARAT BHAGYA VIDHATA ” would bring so much passion and respect and this was true all across the board, cuz we talked over it after the song and prasadam was given to everyone of us. I think it should be ethereal not ethrial. I don’t identify myself with US and I don’t make any comment on there national anthem although I don’t see any emotions coming from their national anthem. As far as church connection with Indian national anthem goes, I don’t feel that at all, we have always linked our National anthem with Bharat Mata and 26th Jan or 15th August. We were never conditioned because the anthem was something we connected with martyrdom, specially after watching movies of Bhagat Singh, Bose, Nehru and Gandhiji. There is hell lot of difference in growing up in India during 70’s or 80’s as compared to growing up in US, where it’s more of absolute than mediocre.
Re 6:
Oh, good grief! Kush, the youtube link you provided is NOT the Bangladeshi National Anthem; it’s a currently popular version of an old song sung by Habib.
An instrumental version (mp3) of the Bangladeshi Anthem is here. And here’s a youtube version of it that’s sung.
Re 33:
Chachaji, while I don’t dispute that Amar Shonar Bangla was composed in a different context and then shoehorned in as the Bangladeshi National Anthem, I believe it serves us Bangladeshis well. It might not be the most stirring or martial of songs (we have those too; see Nazrul’s Urdho Gagone Baje Madol — used by the army — or his Karar Oi Louho Kopat), but having already gone through a particularly bloody war of independence, we don’t necessarily see the need to either extol our martial values or sing some glorified version of Bangladesh uber alles. The anthem remains a simple nostalgic song reminding us of what we are (alright, were) — a golden and green pastoral nation, and for many of us, that suffices.
Oh, good grief! Kush, the youtube link you provided is NOT the Bangladeshi National Anthem; it’s a currently popular version of an old song sung by Habib.
Sorry, I just searcher in youtube for “Amar Shonar Bangla”, and that link came on top.
Thanks for the correction.
I was going to bring up this issue in my previous comment, but feared political incorrectness. This is a similar case to South Africa, where not everyone can speak the same language. This is why I think it was such a great idea to make a combined anthem with a little bit of the various languages. It promotes unification and patriotism but at the same time accomodates the differences. I saw this at school where say a Xhosa kid would know the Xhosa part of the anthem better or sing it just a little louder. It was like “yes, this is my part” & made the whole thing more inspirational. I do acknowledge though, that it doesn’t include all 11 languages….most of the native ones being quite similar. That said… I like JGM actually.
Since I don’t know Bengali, I can’t follow the meaning of the words, and the tune does not excite me at all.
I am guessing this is the main reason. This is the primary reason i like both this as well as bangladesh’s anthem, tho i think “dhono dhanye pushpe bhora” is a more moving song.
Furthermore, at the time the poem was widely believed to have been composed in honor of the visiting British monarch, and so again, it doesn’t move me as an anthem for free India:
This is an urban legend. Odd that you, Ennis, would (half ?) believe something spread primarily by hindu fundamentalists. Little knowledge and all that, I suppose.
50 · Neale said
Neale, I har my Mom’s genration say that, Jaga Gana Mana was sung AFTER the movie a few decades back, mo movie house in India plays Jana Gana Mana before/after the movie (in the past 25 years). (one of )The reason(s) why they stopped it is, if you were to stand in respect for the full duration of the Anthem, there was a risk that the different modes of public transport might be gone by the time you arrived, so lot of people weren’t keen on doing it which amounted to “insulting” the Anthem.
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As for some opinions about the anthem not being “touching” or “moving”, now it can’t be forced, right? I couldn’t have put it better….
On these two special holiday’s, a fluttering tri-color in front of you and a music band drumming away did evoke some feelings, probably more intense for some, they can’t be suppressed, right?
Another (patriotic) video that is definitely touching is this
I must be your total opposite, Ennis 🙂 I love national anthems. All of them. Specially the Marseillaise of course. Sometimes i watch Casablanca just for that part. And I try and watch the first 5 minutes of the big games because the americans really do theirs the best. I wish the Indians would put some zazz into theirs. Even the Rahman version is a bit wimpy in its overall effect, but i do love jana gana mana too.
All this talk about what Jana Gana Mana was first used for are inconsequential, unless we make it so. The idea of a nation is either created or formed over time but it is more of an idea than the sum of its parts, the political necessities and the advantages of being a nation, etc. The idea is the biggest thing and an anthem is connected to this idea. Thus the importance of an anthem or its ability to move does not come from the quality of its lyrics or the catchiness of its music. Nor does it come from what its origins were. Thus irrespective of all these things, the Indian anthem or the American one have the power to inspire and move – no matter whether you care about the music or understand the lyrics.
Similarly, even if the Indian anthem was used to praise King George 100 years back, so what. Today to an Indian, it is more about being proud about things Indian and what India means to them. When I hear the anthem and am not in an excessively dissecting and critical frame of mind, to my mind it brings things that I associate with India and moves me due to that. I do not care about the rest, its all about emotion and thats it.
But yes, if this issue of George was indeed hyped up so much that people got emotional enough over it so that the idea of the anthem and those emotions were lost in the emotions raised over the controversy, then it would start mattering. Hopefully, it would not come to that!
Are you saying this based of videos of the Indian anthem on TV/Youtube. Those are hardly close to the real thing, they match in lyrics and music but never in the passion. The passion is seen in schools and colleges, parades and public squares when people sing the anthem on occassions such as the Republic Day and the Independence day.
You started an interesting line of thought Ennis. I guess being Indian politically as well as genetically, the national anthem has just been a part of my psyche and never come in for critical appraisal even from this most trigger-happy of caustic critics!
But having thought about it now, I must say that it does move me anyway, maybe it’s too deep to be touched. I think it’s extremely funny (and kind of fitting considering how fluid the concept of Indian-ness is) that the Kenyans have managed a much more evocative rendition than AR Rehman’s overly stylised attempt!
On a separate note, I’ve always felt that America the Beautiful would have a made a more powerful anthem than The Star Spangled Banner, which is weak both lyrically and musically.
How many people speak or understand Persian in Pakistan ?. Atleast Bengali is spoken in a state in India.
The Indian anthem is a bit too bengali for me. Should have been written in Hindi. But I like the AR Rahman version above. The Pak anthem has a great tune (the electric guitar Junoon version linked above is awesome!) — but what’s with the all-Persian lyrics? It’s like a closeted gay man talking too much about how he wants to “nail some chicks”. Yeah, we get you’re not Hindus — stop overcompensating.
I like the Marsellaise too, And the Russian anthem has a great tune, but crappy lyrics. The American anthem is my favorite — great lyrics, great music. Here’s the amazing Jimi Hendrix at Woodstock version.
There was a movement in the Reagan era to make America the Beautiful the anthem.
I get quite moved when I listen to “Oh Canada”. One of the more beautiful anthems, in my very biased opinion.
I could well be wrong, but I quoted a letter from Tagore saying as much in the comments as well as newspaper reports from the time. Perhaps the letter from Tagore is bogus (it was on wikipedia) but I saw enough evidence not to dismiss it out of hand.
You’re right, the origins are irrelevant. The bottom line is that it doesn’t move me, basically because I’m an American.
Kush had asked me how I could be so glib given Tagore’s status, and at that point I discussed the history of the piece, based on what I could find in wikipedia. That’s where this issue about King George came from.
Agreed.
I think the instrumentation really matters–i’m utterly unmoved by large orchestral arrangements. If SL’s anthem was played utilizing a double-bridge violin, big drum set, the bass guitar from Lightning Bolt and a mridangam or two…i’d be moved. Otherwise, it’s just a reminder of how corny a nation’s window-dressing cultural accouterments can be.
Another song, also by Tagore, that I like a lot is Ekla Chalo Re. Here are Solo A Capella, and Harmonica versions.
On the question of Persian and the Pakistani anthem – the Western parts of Pakistan speak heavily Farsi-influenced tongues – Dari, Pashto, Balochi. And the Urdu now current in Pakistan has also borrowed significant chunks of its vocabulary from Persian. So while classical Persian is not exactly an everyday linguistic experience for Pakistanis, it is not nearly as far removed as it might at first seem.
The Sanskritized Bangla of Jana Gana Mana (adhinayaka? bhagya-vidhaata?) is arguably similarly, if not more, distant from everyday Bangla speech – forget about other Indians, especially those who speak Dravidian languages. One of the reasons I like Ekla Chalo Re, is that it’s Bangla is much closer to the everyday. Unfortunately, while it might do as a credo for some people (ahem!), it won’t do as a national anthem.
Another song that deserves mention, especially given this is SM – is Kadam Kadam Badhaye Ja! – the anthem of Netaji Bose’s INA during WW2.
And finally – I do want to congratulate Ennis for initiating this and for all the mutineers who chimed in – in this discussion of national anthems – one of the most emotive topics possible. It’s been great to hear everybody’s views. I’ve learnt a lot, and hope to learn more.
I’ve always found Pak Sar Zameen annoying because of some experiences when growing up, but I’m warming up to it after chachaji gave his approval.
Yes, Persian isn’t the language of Pakistan, but people who know Urdu should be able to understand most of it. But that is irrelevant, how many people understand songs anyway? As a kid, I always thought that some guy named Bharat ran to Vidhata, wherever it was. Also, how many people understood Springsteen’s “Born in the USA”? Many people still think that it’s a usual patriotic song.
Someone mentioned the Canadian anthem. 10 points for anyone who can pull up the Simpsons episodes where the forego the US anthem and sing O Canada instead,
I sang the JGM for years at school and it can still break out the goosebumps. But then anthems can do that to me, even club anthems :).
While JGM, like most anthems, iconizes sentiments i disagree with, there is no denying the soaring lyricism or the proud, vivid way ARR’s version showcases a wealth of musical craftsmanship–like the utter awesomeness that is D.K. Pattammal.
I find it ironic that the first listing after typing ‘India National Anthem’ on Yahoo! is
http://www.whitehouse.gov/national-anthem/newdelhi-full.html
I think choosing “Persian” as the language for the “national anthem” has more to do with the mentality of keeping “Persian” on the pedestal (being the “official” and “court” language of the Mughals) than any commonality with Urdu (again a minority language in the Pakistan dominated by Punjabi/Bengali/Sindhi).
I think Pakistan when it came into being was considered (atleast by the elites who created the state) to be a continuation of the Mughal rule.
Where is the Buffalaxed version?
I could have written this exact same thing. Wow.
I like to go to games when the Blue Jays come to New York, so I can hear the Canadian national anthem, which is a fine one. I also particularly like South Africa, Poland and Argentina. Jana Gana Mana is not my favourite Indian patriotic song. I much prefer Sare Jahan se Achha.
i rather like this instrumental version – though i think rehman’s vocal version with such esteemed artists is amazing, for a country like indian where languages are such a source of tension and division, and instrumental version is more befitting (even if the original was based in one language), and moving in the particular instruments chosen for the particular notes. it’s interesting how JGM is not regarded by all indians with the same respect – as mentioned above, i’ve heard many tamilians reject JGM for many reasons, mainly linguistic (which is also tied to the political reasons). contrastingly, i once went to a kuchipudi performance (with mostly telugus in the audience) where the performance began with JGM, something i’ve never ever seen at any tamil/bharata natyam functions. can anybody expand on whether this was part of a political movement -e.g. when hindi was eliminated as a mandatory language in TN?
And I could have written the exact opposite. National anthems at sporting events annoy me. It is alright if the match is between national teams, but the practice does not make sense to if the match is between private franchise teams. Maybe that is the reason why I’m always somewhere else when the anthems are playing.
My comments were not directed at you or anyone in particular but at this controversy that keeps coming up about the anthem. I think it’s perfectly cool that the Indian anthem does not move you and I was not implying otherwise. Actually, I wont have issues if the Indian anthem did not move someone who was an Indian citizen either, patriotism should not be defined in ill formed narrow concepts of standing or sitting, wearing flags or singing anthems. To each his own, people do not need to feel love for their country (though that is always nice) as long as they do not do harm to the country they come from.
Ok, with all this talk of anthems at sports events, I have to link in this video – Jana Gana Mana and Pak Sarzameen, both sung back-to-back, by the same South African choir at Johannesburg – at the end of the Twenty 20 finals, in September 2007, which India won. JGM gets speeded up a little, so both JGM and PS land in just about a minute each, and both anthems run at about the same tempo. Both sound great, and it’s difficult to tell they’re being sung by non-natives.
generally not a fan of national anthems, but particularly am irritated by the one’s that talk about war, violence, vanquishing the enemy etc. Examples of the latter would be “star spangled banner”,La Marseillaise, “god save the king/queen”, though I like the tunes of the first two (so am not immediately repelled so long as I don’t have to concentrate or listen to the words).
The following should have been the words to a national anthem of India, or for that matter of every country in the world (set in any tune)
Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high; Where knowledge is free; Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls; Where words come out from the depth of truth; Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection; Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit; Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action– Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.
This is probably off-topic but does anybody know a “Dilruba” or “Esraj” player in the L.A. area ?
These are musical instruments that are a cross between an violin and a sitar.
If you do, e-mail me.
… or The Internationale. 😉
81 · chachaji said
When the new South African legislature was inaugurated, it featured invocations from many sacred texts, so I am not surprised at the atmosphere of cordiality with which the chorists went about their rendition. Wow! Not to miss the cute mascots. Standing bareheaded at such an occasion is a Christian/Hindu custom of piety or respect. While for Muslims. Sikhs, and Jews they do so by keeping their heads covered. In Pakistan in keeping with Western custom military personnel as a rule leave their hats ‘outside’. Splendorous to see such a variety of expression.
South Africa is truly the place where the world comes together.
I dunno, I’m an American, and it moves me…
23 · Rahul said
That’s a great moment – imagine – a Czech and an American lead the French expats in hte Marsellaise! These days, French and German soldiers march together on national days in Paris, and Berlin! Thankfully those days of war are long past and lie behind us.
6 · Kush Tandon said
it’s either “pass muster” or “cut the mustard”. there’s no such thing as “cut muster”
Kali ji,
it’s either “pass muster” or “cut the mustard”. there’s no such thing as “cut muster”
From WSU:
It’s “cut the muster,†not “cut the mustard.†This etymology seems plausible at first. Its proponents often trace it to the American Civil War. We do have the analogous expression “to pass muster,†which probably first suggested this alternative; but although the origins of “cut the mustard†are somewhat obscure, the latter is definitely the form used in all sorts of writing throughout the twentieth century. Common sense would suggest that a person cutting a muster is not someone being selected as fit, but someone eliminating the unfit. See the alt.usage.english faq explanation of this term. Other references.
Now instead of anthems, we are talking about muster/ mustard.
Now instead of anthems, we are talking about muster/ mustard.
CUT THE MUSTARD — From “Listening to America” by Stuart Berg Flexner (Simon and Schuster, 1982), “Mustard came into English in the 13th century from the French (going back to Latin mustum, grape juice, originally used for mixing ground mustard seeds into a paste). By the War of 1812 ‘mustard seed shot’ was an American term for small-gauge shot. Between 1900 and 1910, when commercially bottled mustard became popular, ‘mustard’ appeared in several slang expressions that used the strength of the condiment as a metaphor: ‘to be the proper mustard’ meant to be the genuine article, ‘to be all mustard’ meant to be excellent, and ‘to be up to the mustard’ and ‘to cut the mustard’ both meant to come up to expectations. Since World War I the last expression has been used almost exclusively in the negative ‘he can’t cut the mustard’ – and among many men is used to mean unable to have an erection, to be unable to perform sexually.”
From the “Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins” (Second Edition, HarperCollins, 1977) by William and Mary Morris: “cut the mustard — was originally a Western expression, popular among cowboys during the late nineteenth century. If something was ‘the proper mustard,’ it was O.K., the genuine article. Andy Adams used the expression this way in his famous ‘Log of a Cowboy,’ when he wrote that ‘for fear the two dogs were not the proper mustard, he had that dog man sue him in court to make him prove the pedigree.’ And Carl Sandburg once wrote: ‘Kid each other, you cheapskates. Tell each other you’re all to the mustard.” Then expression cut the mustard then came into vogue.”
I didn’t read all the comments, but I loved the kenyan version. Got goosebumps. And I’m not a particularly patriotic person.
@ #14 rax
The link you have posted is from a movie and not how it is sung. Here is the original and here is a downloadable file
The English translation. Where is there a call to arms.
My obeisance to Mother India! with flowing beneficial waters Filled with choicest fruits Sandal wood wafts cool Lovely mooned nights. O mother! My obeisance to you! Where the bright morning light and thrilled nights Are dressed in attires wondrous flora abloom Sweet speaker of sweet languages A happy boon are you, o mother… Aha…dear mother, I salute you!
The English translation. Where is there a call to arms.
45 · melbourne desi now in the desh said
The subject matter of Waltzing Matilda is a hobo making tea, stealing a ship, drowning while hiding in a pond and then becoming a ghost and haunting that pond, hardly something that would make a national anthem. They could jazz up the AAF like the Adam Hills rock version
True, but that said, Waltzing Matilda is generally much beloved for its ideals of antiauthoritarianism and “live free or die” sentiments like ‘”You’ll never catch me alive”, said he’. AAF was chosen simply because it wasn’t controversial, not because it was everyone’s favorite choice.
If anyone here wants an Indian American anthem derived from Waltzing Matilda, try starting with “Welcome macaca, welcome macaca”.
That was a SHEEP!
sorry my mistake, yeah its a sheep. The same mistake, Ship – Sheep, cost me at my KG (pre-school) interview at a prestigious school and had to settle for another one.
LOL. I had a similar experience too, but I got in because my brother, who was already at that school, was really smart. Your situation was salvageable – you could have said that you were transcribing in IPA.
53 · Ashwani Batra said
I move with the national anthem, but not as much as I do with a Segway. National trees, on the other hand? That’s a topic that really gets the blood flowing at a party. I did write in the jack pine as my choice, but when that failed, I stood behind the president, and to this day, I put my hands on my heart when I drive past an oak tree independent of the car scent I am using.
93 · Samir said
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vande_mataram
“”Vande Mataram” was the national cry for freedom from British oppression during the freedom movement. Large rallies, fermenting initially in Bengal, in the major metropolis of Calcutta, would work themselves up into a patriotic fervour by shouting the slogan “Vande Mataram,” or “Hail to the Mother(land)!”. “
Yea, my apologies that my forefathers couldnt write a more harsh, hate filled, bloody war cry. However, Its what I’d expect from a peace loving nation.