A Little on Obama’s Speech

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I disagree with Manish’s assessment; I actually thought Obama gave a very good speech on Tuesday. I do see the limitations: the tone and delivery was much more restrained than Obama’s earlier big speeches, so it’s not likely to bring him a new wave of supporters where he could use them most (i.e., here in Pennsylvania). But a soft and dispassionate tone was probably essential, as his primary goal was to distance himself from the unrestrained, over-the-top anger of his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

In contrast to Manish, I do feel that Obama did address the segments of American society who are not black or white, when he mentioned immigrants:

That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change.

But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don’t feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race.

Their experience is the immigrant experience — as far as they’re concerned, no one’s handed them anything, they’ve built it from scratch. They’ve worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. (link)

The rhetorical move here is intriguing — he starts by acknowledging the resentment of working- and middle-class whites (which is itself significant; it’s perhaps the first time I’ve seen a Democrat say anything like this). But in the final paragraph, he moves to include immigrants, and in some sense suggests that the resentment of whites might also overlap with the resentment of immigrants about things like affirmative action. (Certainly, I know many South Asians — and Asians, more generally — who are deeply opposed to Affirmative Action, so this rings true.)

A second reference to immigrants comes later in the speech:

But I have asserted a firm conviction — a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people — that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice if we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life.

But it also means binding our particular grievances — for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs — to the larger aspirations of all Americans, the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family.

This time, the reference is more purely sentimental: he’s talking about our shared experience of striving and struggle. But his choice of examples here is really telling as it reveals who he’s trying to reach: middle-class whites and immigrants.

In short, while this is primarily a speech about relations between blacks and whites, Obama does inject a “third” position into the mix, which might refer to Latinos, Asians, or other immigrants.

187 thoughts on “A Little on Obama’s Speech”

  1. This was a brilliant speech but one remark of his was not alright with me…

    This time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is not that someone who doesn’t look like you might take your job; it’s that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for nothing more than a profit.

    As Amit from India Uncut rightly put…http://indiauncut.com/iublog/article/globalization-and-barack-obama/

    He spoke of race in America with a nuance and subtlety that is rare in political discourse, but his rhetoric against free trade and profit, which are the driving forces of human progress, was archaic and befuddling. He was making a speech for posterity, not just for the Democratic Party nomination, and his populist pandering, which lacked the nuance that set the rest of his speech apart, struck a discordant note.
  2. his primary goal was to distance himself from the unrestrained, over-the-top anger of his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

    He also used it well to put to bed any concerns that he might harbor any secret love for Islam.

  3. Ah, but the story continues. Have you listed to this interview – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/20/obama-grandmother-was-a-_n_92587.html.

    If I was a working class white person who lived in a mixed neighborhood, I’d be pretty insulted by this remark. Actually, if I was most of the white people I knew, I’d be insulted by this remark! I have a general sense of Obama and his principles, and I doubt this was his intension, but to say “The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn’t know (pause) there’s a reaction in her that doesn’t go away and it comes out in the wrong way…” is ANOTHER STEREOTYPE.

    In other news, the Richardson endorsement may take away from the heat he’ll get for this.

  4. In other news, the Richardson endorsement may take away from the heat he’ll get for this.

    What is the relevance of Richardson except for the Dem insiders? He polled lower than Colbert when he was running for the presidency, and was not even able to carry New Mexico for Kerry despite being the governor.

    His ads were good though.

  5. This is the primary season – not the general election, so the more esoteric activity has a greater impact on the actual primary result. One step at a time ;).

    Richardson’s decision to endorse Barack, despite the fact that he was a friggin member of Bill Clinton’s cabinet is significant, and it will probably have some influence with the superdelegates, etc.

  6. Well, it sure isn’t the first time a Democrat has said this. Especially because the last time someone said something like this, that person wasn’t speaking out of political expediency or defensiveness. And this person talked about white fears and black pain, and included Hispanic Americans in his speech, and not just because they were a potential vote bank.

    link

    And Winston Churchill said, “I have great confidence in the judgment and the common sense of the American people and their leaders. They invariably do the right thing after they have examined every other alternative.” (Laughter.) So I say to you, let me begin by saying that I can see in the eyes of these students and in the spirit of this moment, we will do the right thing. In recent weeks, every one of us has been made aware of a simple truth — white Americans and black Americans often see the same world in drastically different ways — ways that go beyond and beneath the Simpson trial and its aftermath, which brought these perceptions so starkly into the open. The rift we see before us that is tearing at the heart of America exists in spite of the remarkable progress black Americans have made in the last generation, since Martin Luther King swept America up in his dream, and President Johnson spoke so powerfully for the dignity of man and the destiny of democracy in demanding that Congress guarantee full voting rights to blacks. The rift between blacks and whites exists still in a very special way in America, in spite of the fact that we have become much more racially and ethnically diverse, and that Hispanic Americans — themselves no strangers to discrimination — are now almost 10 percent of our national population. …… Today we face a choice — one way leads to further separation and bitterness and more lost futures. The other way, the path of courage and wisdom, leads to unity, to reconciliation, to a rich opportunity for all Americans to make the most of the lives God gave them. This moment in which the racial divide is so clearly out in the open need not be a setback for us. It presents us with a great opportunity, and we dare not let it pass us by. (Applause.) In the past when we’ve had the courage to face the truth about our failure to live up to our own best ideals, we’ve grown stronger, moved forward and restored proud American optimism. At such turning points America moved to preserve the union and abolished slavery; to embrace women’s suffrage; to guarantee basic legal rights to America without regard to race, under the leadership of President Johnson. At each of these moments, we looked in the national mirror and were brave enough to say, this is not who we are; we’re better than that. Abraham Lincoln reminded us that a house divided against itself cannot stand. When divisions have threatened to bring our house down, somehow we have always moved together to shore it up. My fellow Americans, our house is the greatest democracy in all human history. And with all its racial and ethnic diversity, it has beaten the odds of human history. But we know that divisions remain, and we still have work to do. (Applause.) The two worlds we see now each contain both truth and distortion. Both black and white Americans must face this, for honesty is the only gateway to the many acts of reconciliation that will unite our worlds at last into one America. …….. On the other hand, blacks must understand and acknowledge the roots of white fear in America. There is a legitimate fear of the violence that is too prevalent in our urban areas; and often by experience or at least what people see on the news at night, violence for those white people too often has a black face. It isn’t racist for a parent to pull his or her child close when walking through a high-crime neighborhood, or to wish to stay away from neighborhoods where innocent children can be shot in school or standing at bus stops by thugs driving by with assault weapons or toting handguns like old west desperados. (Applause.) It isn’t racist for parents to recoil in disgust when they read about a national survey of gang members saying that two-thirds of them feel justified in shooting someone simply for showing them disrespect. It isn’t racist for whites to say they don’t understand why people put up with gangs on the corner or in the projects, or with drugs being sold in the schools or in the open. It’s not racist for whites to assert that the culture of welfare dependency, out-of-wedlock pregnancy and absent fatherhood cannot be broken by social programs unless there is first more personal responsibility. (Applause.) The great potential for this march today, beyond the black community, is that whites will come to see a larger truth — that blacks share their fears and embrace their convictions; openly assert that without changes in the black community and within individuals, real change for our society will not come

    Yes, this was Bill Clinton, thirteen years ago.

  7. Richardson’s decision to endorse Barack, despite the fact that he was a friggin member of Bill Clinton’s cabinet is significant, and it will probably have some influence with the superdelegates, etc.

    Yeah, that I buy. I thought you were alluding to the aam aadmi, for example, the NY Times seemed to indicate that this might swing Latino vote his way (I don’t have a sense of Richardson’s influence in that community, except for his general lack of public traction).

    Hillary’s prospects are probably dead and buried at this point (she’s down on delegates, and Florida and Michigan seem to be out of the reckoning except in Wolfson’s math which gives her scant hope of making up the popular vote deficit), unless extremely serious concerns about Obama’s viability as a candidate crop up (the Wright thing doesn’t seem to be dying down yet, despite that really well-crafted speech).

  9. I agree that I don’t think much of the Richardson endorsement, I think most endorsements at this point for party seniors are opportunist. That being said, I like the speech but like I think it opens more questions than it provides answers, I agree with Rahul that it put the secret love for Islam bit to rest but I am not sure if actually appealed to working class whites. I also don’t make too much of his comments on immigrants as I think they related to Hispanics than Asians.

  10. 8 · Rahul said

    that person wasn’t speaking out of political expediency or defensiveness.
    Exactly. Which is why Muslims and Islam were marginalized, and worse in the Tuesday speech.

    Huh? Sorry, you either just doubled-back on your sarcasm and therefore lost me, or you’re being straight-up: I’m confused, which one is it? You see, we Obama non-supporters are usually less educated (and therefore, more stupid) 🙂

  11. Slim pickings, innit? Look at the meat, not offhand references. It’s outdated that race in America is framed as black and white. A historic, MLK-type address today would include Latinos at a very minimum.

  12. Sorry, you either just doubled-back on your sarcasm and therefore lost me, or you’re being straight-up: I’m confused, which one is it?

    I was being straight-up, #2 was sarcastic. You can count me among the stupid, uneducated bunch (Obama non-fan describes my position much more accurately than Clinton supporter).

  13. Exactly. Which is why Muslims and Islam were marginalized, and worse in the Tuesday speech.

    Rahul you can count on me, to always follow your rabbit trails. However Muslims , according to this make up 0.5% of the US population.

    Of all non-immigrant Muslims in this country, more than 85 percent are black “They are the ones who have planted the roots of Islam firmly in this country, establishing mosques and centers of civic outreach, working in prisons and communities..”

    link

    Are muslim prehaps a numerically marginal percent of the US? People typically see your race before your religion.

    In contrast to Manish, I do feel that Obama did address the segments of American society who are not black or white, when he mentioned immigrants:

    I totally understand that desi’s are not white or black but as it has been hashed out on some the great conversations here- your lock on Investment Banking and medicine, in the historical dialectic of America,- has firmly made you “white”. America is not mono racial or cultural but if we are looking for precision here none of Mr. Wrights** outrage was directed at any other group but “whites”. That was the primary reason for the speech.

    (**which I reject and denouce)

    On the bright side- [Rahul] you and others can be happy now that he’s not “rising above” but keeping it dirty the way apparently you like politics to be.

  14. Are muslim prehaps a numerically marginal percent of the US? People typically see your race before your religion.

    dilettante, I respectfully disagree. This varies considerably along a lot of factors, including whether or not you wear the hijab.

  15. dilettante, I want to respond to you in detail but am very busy and will get to it later. Very quickly though – he not only didn’t mention Islam, he also laid all the problems of the middle east at the doorstep of radical Islam, while giving unstinted praise to Israel. And both the non-mention and this mention happened in a context.

  16. #3 If I was a working class white person who lived in a mixed neighborhood, I’d be pretty insulted by this remark..

    Since we commonly use black as a substitute (See President Clintons speech linked at #6)for high crime areas etc- which I deplore but understand. To be consistent, to observe that a white person having a “typical” reaction to this truism, is not a stereotype but reality. I think Obama was brave to address this topic in such a ‘real way”

    So does Charles Murrray

  17. Good speech on race. Bad judgement on Wright. Good work in the community Does not excuse the repeating Of conspiracy theories involving HIV-AIDS

  18. dilettante, I respectfully disagree. This varies considerably along a lot of factors, including whether or not you wear the hijab

    .

    I do concede that, Camille, and in no way do I want to start an oppression Olympics discussion. IMV race trumps gender in the US context. I think most Americans are sophisticated enough to distinguish between a Somalian/Sudanese woman and a black woman whose family has been in the US for a longer period. Whereas as a [black] woman from the latter group is where the BULK of the Muslim population (85%) in the US originates.

    he also laid all the problems of the middle east at the doorstep of radical Islam, while giving unstinted praise to Israel

    Well he did say “Im not running for vice president. Im running for president of the United States of America.” Link

    One American taboo at a time, besides Wright was strongly against Israel (and by association US FP) for its support of apartheid South Africa. The point of the speech, remember, was to draw a distinction between himself and Mr. Wright.

  19. Obama non-fan describes my position much more accurately than Clinton supporter

    Oh come on now Rahul don’t be so modest, you are much more than that, you have consistently been derisive and ever so sarcastic of Obama and his positions calling him Hoperah, and worse. Seriously, you are better than Wolfson and company at casting doubts about Obama, Hillary should offer you a job in her campaign as a spokesperson.

  21. 17 · MD said

    Good speech on race. Bad judgement on Wright. Good work in the community Does not excuse the repeating Of conspiracy theories involving HIV-AIDS

    Hey if you’re gonna get mad at Obama and/or Wright about conspiracy theories involving HIV-AIDS (or about 9/11) then damn it, get mad at Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson for also their views and saying same crude remarks about so-called conspirators of AIDS and

    9/11.

  22. Thank you for the encouragement, Yogi. Yes, I can!

    Indeed you can and if Obama becomes the nominee there is always the McCain campaign, though you might have to tone down your clever and subtle put downs and be more direct to appeal to “base”.

  23. Hey if you’re gonna get mad at Obama and/or Wright about conspiracy theories involving HIV-AIDS (or about 9/11) then damn it, get mad at Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson for also their views and saying same crude remarks about so-called conspirators of AIDS and 9/11.

    Paraphrasing Orwell: some pastors are more equal than the others

  25. Hey if you’re gonna get mad at Obama and/or Wright about conspiracy theories involving HIV-AIDS (or about 9/11) then damn it, get mad at Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson for also their views and saying same crude remarks about so-called conspirators of AIDS and 9/11.

    Or more importantly, McCain for embracing these haters as well as Hagee.

  26. Okay, I didn’t finish.

    Seriously, what kind of comeback is that? Two dumbasses make a Wright?

    I’m sure those kind of conspiracy theories don’t hurt poor communities at all. Way to stand tall, Sen. Community Organizer.

    *BTW, I don’t really have a dog in this race.

    Clinton: Okay, good luck with that health care plan and all that detailed policy wonkery. It takes a village. Obama: Okay, good luck with that diplomacy. I’m sure they’ll all roll over for your pretty speechifying. McCain: Okay, good luck with that convincing India and China to join in on your super duper environmental plan. I’m sure they’ll take a 0.5% hit to their GDP to cap things. Sounds like reality to me.

    Ugh. I am writing my own name in, I swear.

  28. Okay, I don’t have a dog in this race but I can’t stand how it’s wrong to have Hagee endorse McCain, but it’s okay for Obama to choose, of his own free will, Wright has his long-time spiritual advisor. Hagee didn’t marry McCain, baptize his kids, or give him the title of his book, The Audacity of Hype, or whatever.

    Also, if Hagee is a jerk, then Wright must be too, huh? So, you’d have to be disappointed in both McCain and Obama, huh?

    Look, it’s human nature: You excuse your own guys stuff and hate the other guys stuff. That’s fine. We all do it. Just see it for what it is.

  29. 1 As Amit from India Uncut rightly put:

    free trade and profit, which are the driving forces of human progress

    LOL…

  30. MD, I don’t know whom your last comment was addressed to, but it is obvious there is an asymmetry in public expectations. McCain can embrace all these crazies whose primary planks seem to be preaching of hate against assorted groups, and nobody bats an eyelid, he is not required to explain himself, and somehow, mind-bogglingly to me, retains his reputation as a maverick and straight-talker.

    Obama, despite his fairly obvious sanity, is required to deny allegations that he secretly believes or endorses these conspiracy theories – of a man who also advocates black self-help as a primary ideology – and has to dissociate himself from them. This is a patent and obvious double standard in American society today.

    (That said, I do think there are issues with the Wright-Obama link, I will write a more detailed comment later, but I really should attend to my work, so I will refrain from this thread)

  32. Rahul.

    One more time so you can understand.

    One is a standard campaign endorsment. One is a long time pastor and associate of a candidate. Do you see the difference between seeking out a campaign endorsement and sitting in a pew for over twenty years while taking spiritual advice from a person? And taking your kids to sermons by that person.

    How are they the same? And if they are, why is it okay for Obama to be with Wright, but wrong for McCain to be with Haggee? You can’t have it both ways.

    In other words, you don’t really care about Wright and what he said, but you care about Hagee and Falwell and what they said. Fine, that’s your business. I can’t respect Obama after this, though. That’s my business. As for McCain? Eh, like I said, I’m not excited about any of these three.

  33. 29 · Xyzz said

    #1 As Amit from India Uncut rightly put:
    free trade and profit, which are the driving forces of human progress
    “LOL…”

    Heh, I was thinking the same. It’s amazing how people manage to think about the history and modern operation of American capitalism as being entirely distinct from social issues like racism!

    30 · Rahul said

    McCain can embrace all these crazies whose primary planks seem to be preaching of hate against assorted groups, and nobody bats an eyelid

    I am in agreement here. If anything, it is Obama who has been forced to go to ridiculous lengths to distance himself from Wright, while McCain seems to be riding free. While I am not in agreement with Wright’s HIV comment, everything else he said was absolutely reasonable (and true, IMO), making this double standard even more of a travesty. As a person, Wright is not nearly as much of a “crazy” as those conservative preachers.

  34. In other words, you don’t really care about Wright and what he said, but you care about Hagee and Falwell and what they said.

    Your other words, maybe. I don’t think I ever said that Obama-Wright is ok. I was pointing out the double standard in the other direction.

    And if they are, why is it okay for Obama to be with Wright, but wrong for McCain to be with Haggee? You can’t have it both ways.

    And I never was.

    One more time so you can understand.

    Backatcha.

  35. You didn’t even answer me, Rahul!

    Is an endorsement of McCain by Hagee the same as an endorsement of Wright by Obama?

    McCain didn’t attend Hagees church for 20 years. Obama attended Wright’s for 20 years. is that the same or is it different? I think it’s different, that’s why it’s not a double standard.

    Anyway, this conspiracy stuff hurts the very community that is meant to be helped. That’s why I can’t respect Obama after this.

  36. I think Obama has taken a few knocks down the pedestal and stumbled to gain his former status. His chief adviser/strategist, David Axelrod is the same nimrod that got Deval Patrick into the Governer’s office in Mass. After Mitt, all we could see was hope. Who is he really after the “hope” message translates into real life? Someone who has major problems building consensus (even with a democratic house and senate) and has instituted no major initiatives in the 1+ years since he came into office. He just tried to push through the idea of casinos in MA, but it failed miserably. As a former employee of the state of mass, I saw this inaction first hand. Rock star candidates are always a let down.

  37. This stupidly prolonged dem primary is going to screw them over and Mr John ‘I don’t care a rats a$$ about economics’ McCain is going to go to the white house. Obama and Clinton’s populist rhetoric does not help much either to feel to good about any of these candidates.

  38. There’s other stuff that will come out about Obama that will keep this story alive. His relationship with radical state senator in Illinois, and the relationship of his church with the pardoned (by Clinton Administration) Puerto Rican Separatist. Obama may win the Democratic Primary, but I don’t see him beating McCain. Like Obama said about whites…’Most white’ are wary of blacks.

  39. The controversy over Obama’s pastor and his response to it in this historical race speech has accomplished a number of objectives for his campaign:

    1. It has pulled the rug from under the Republican dirty tactics brigade which was planning to destroy him with innuendo of being a closet muslim Trojan Horse.

    2. It should now compel the media to give equal opportunity to offensive soundbites from the loony white christian pastors and preachers who are such close allies of the Republican Party. Hagee, Robertson and the recently departed Falwell have made far more indefensible remarks than what Wright is being raked over the coals for. Wright’s rant that 9-11 was America’s foreign policy chickens coming home to roost is actually shared by many others including Republicans like Pat Buchanan. Scholarly books (example “Blowback”) have been written that connect the rise of Al-Qaeda to american foreign policy. On the other hand Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell made the utterly indefensible claim that 9-11 was God’s punishment for the evils in american culture; in other words these Republican nutjobs claimed that God hates and damns American culture. How is that OK but Wright’s condemnation of America for treating blacks as less than human is not? Clearly a double standard here.

    3. Obama’s calm, balanced, thoughtful response to this lynch mob baying for his blood should settle the question of who is best qualified to answer that 3 AM call. Who should America trust to do the right and intelligent thing in a crisis? A cool headed, intelligent, emotionally balanced leader like Obama or a weepy Hillary or an angry McCain?

  40. Question from the UK. Will John McCain’s age count against him in the election? 71 or 72 is very very old. Presumably he’d aspire to be President until he was 80. Healthwise, and otherwise, is this an issue for voters?

  42. The question is not if Wright is as bad as he was potrayed. The church promotes black separatist ideologist. They honor Puerto Rican separatist who were imprisoned for having bombed and maimed a police officer in NY City. How would the media react if a candidate’s church had this their web site.

    1. Commitment to God
    2. Commitment to the White Community
    3. Commitment to the White Family
    4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
    5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
    6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic
    7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
    8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”
    9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community
    10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions
    11. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System
    12. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.
  43. Is an endorsement of McCain by Hagee the same as an endorsement of Wright by Obama? McCain didn’t attend Hagees church for 20 years. Obama attended Wright’s for 20 years. is that the same or is it different? I think it’s different, that’s why it’s not a double standard.

    When did Obama “endorse” Wright?

    McCain on the other hand actively sought Hagee’s endorsement. His close associate Senator Lieberman compares Hagee to Moses! Coming from a practicing jew thats the highest compliment possible. Now this “christian” pastor Hagee is indeed a crazy and hateful person. He openly hates Catholics and Muslims (evangelical hatred of hindus, buddhists etc is of course a given). He preaches treachery to his flock: their first loyalty should be to Israel, not America he thunders (no wonder Liebermann thinks he is the new Moses). Fairness demands that McCain also be forced to explain why he was so eager to get this insane hatemonger’s blessing; and why he has such close ties with a Senator who thinks this evil lunatic is God’s prophet.

  44. I thought his speech on race was nuanced, sharp and honest. However, I still find Wright’s comments unacceptable and completely tactless. There is a part of me that is rubbed the wrong way by all of this, knowing that Obama went to that guy for twenty years and still defended him.

  45. 42 · Vic said

    The question is not if Wright is as bad as he was potrayed. The church promotes black separatist ideologist. They honor Puerto Rican separatist who were imprisoned for having bombed and maimed a police officer in NY City. How would the media react if a candidate’s church had this their web site. 1. Commitment to God 2. Commitment to the White Community 3. Commitment to the White Family 4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education 5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence 6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic 7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect 8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness” 9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community 10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions 11. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System 12. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System.

    No offense, but you sound like you’re getting talking points directly from Fox News itself… In the case you’ve suggested above, the vast majority of the media would probably ignore and downplay the racism of such a Church, as they do all the time. If you are Desi, or of any other minority group, I suggest replacing the racial/ethnic terms above with ones that fit you, then see how you feel about it.

    While it is not perfect, there is nothing “separatist” or “racist” about Trinity. Like many other “black” churches, it promotes the perfectly legitimate desire for community, solidarity, and achievement on the part of a historically and systemically disadvantaged minority group. White people aren’t disadvantaged in the same ways as black people are, nor are they a minority, which is it could easily be racist to promote a white church like the one you suggest above.

    The only thing that suggests marginal amounts of “separatism” is #8, which is only “separatist” insofar as it rejects the heavily politicized, racialized, and otherwise constructed notion of success in mainstream America (get a good job, marry, settle down, have a family, become a homeowner in a nice neighborhood, enjoy the “freedoms” of American Capitalism) and the flawed ideals and illusions in which that notion is based. I support that 100%. Read the church’s Mission statement for further clarification.

  46. Bobby – it’s an issue that’s discussed quite a bit – although John McCain’s mother is still kicking and she’s actually quite youthful looking…so maybe it runs in the genes. And besides, this is the same nation that voted for a ticket with Cheney…lol.

    If you ask me, the biggest concern is that he supports this war. He’s also not necessarily aligned with his party’s base and their thinking on other issues.

  47. 1. Commitment to God 2. Commitment to the White Community 3. Commitment to the White Family…

    Vic, I’m not sure how much American history you have been exposed to. Black people in America are defined by their race, which for historical reasons, doubles as an ethnicity. “Real” African nationals being a somewhat new phenomena. That’s why many of us prefer the term “African American” – its not precise, but there you have it. I view myself as American /w an American culture. Oddly enough its white Americans [I live in England] who usually find a need to remind me of my blackness.

    You are right. No “white” church would proclaim points 2, and 3, but they could very well claim allegiance to their Irish,Polish,Lithuanian ,Greek “roots” with out being considered anti American/racist.

    6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic… 7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect…

    Ironically, this quintessentially American — and yes, conservative — notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright’s sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change. BHO “The speech”

    As Mr. Obama stated in a debate I watched between himself and Mr. Alan Keyes for Illinois senate- he’s was not running to be the Pastor of Illinois. I’m going to extend that to his campaign for POTUS. I have problems with Mr. Wright, and the liberal Theology of all UCC- but I am not looking to Obama, or any other political leader for spiritual guidance.

  48. “No offense, but you sound like you’re getting talking points directly from Fox News itself”

    This is so used and stale. Anytime a Democrat is criticized, you can almost guarantee to hear that one. What about CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, AP, New York Times, Washingtom Post, LA TImes etc etc. that do a lot more for Democrats. Are you getting your talking point from them?

    In any case, its not Obama’s church that bothers me as much as his socialist agenda and a blank resume for a presidential candidate (and what little he has is flawed).

  49. 48 · Vic said

    “No offense, but you sound like you’re getting talking points directly from Fox News itself” This is so used and stale. Anytime a Democrat is criticized, you can almost guarantee to hear that one. What about CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, AP, New York Times, Washingtom Post, LA TImes etc etc. that do a lot more for Democrats. Are you getting your talking point from them? In any case, its not Obama’s church that bothers me as much as his socialist agenda and a blank resume for a presidential candidate (and what little he has is flawed).

    Alright, if it so offends, then I apologize for my remark, which was intended more at the analysis of soundbyte-esque fragments over contextualized substance, rather than at your character or intellectual integrity. For the record, I’m not a democrat or an avowed Obama supporter of any kind.

  50. Its amusing to see Obama apologist defend issues that would damn any Republican candidate from political life. First the guy clearly lies about having no knowledge of the church’s separatist ideology. He actively gains support of State Senator Meeks, who makes Jesse jackson look like Clarence Thomas. The only thing going for him is he seem to speak well, which seems to be a bigger qualification than it really is after hearing other black politicians like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the current President. I don’t think Presidency of United States qualifies as an affirmative action experiment.