In the past, I was somewhat snarky when it came out that Aishwarya Rai, before her marriage to Abhishek Bachchan, agreed to marry a Peepul tree because of her “Manglik” status. 
The New York Times had a story recently (thanks, Jamie), which described how Aishwarya Bachchan recently dropped out of a Hollywood project with Will Smith in order to be home in Mumbai to celebrate Karva Chauth.
For those who don’t know, Karva Chauth is a traditional Hindu festival where wives fast for a whole day without food or water as a symbol of their devotion to their husbands. I have many women friends who object to the festival as regressive, though I also know one or two people who do observe it out of a sense of loyalty to tradition. (Perhaps not too surprisingly, the women I know who observe it are NRIs, not ABDs. Are there any ABDs out there who observe Karva Chauth?)
Here is the quote the NYT gives regarding Aish’s decision to return to Mumbai for Karva Chauth:
Ultimately Ms. Bachchan chose to return to Mumbai and starve with a smile. National television channels covered her first Karva Chauth as headline news. Two months later she shrugged off her loss in an interview. “You do what you have to do,†she said. “Feeling torn and thereby unhappy, confused or guilty is not something I want to feel. So you make your choices and go with it. You get some and some you don’t.†(link)
What to say. From what I can tell, everything Aish does outside of her acting seems to reflect a pretty sincere traditionalism. One has to presume she’s observing Karva Chauth because she really wants to, not because anyone put pressure on her to do so. So, if we accept that the festival of Karva Chauth isn’t inherently sexist (and the case can be made that it is), here I’m inclined to give props to Aish for putting tradition over her career. It certainly beats America’s celebrity culture — which has lately just been depressingly bad, what with Britney losing her mind, and Amy Winehouse smoking crack…
On the other hand, the Indian media loves this kind of thing, so it may be that sacrificing a romantic comedy with Will Smith might actually help her Bollywood career — and she can have both. Jodhaa Akbar, anyone?
You think customs like Karva Chauth aren’t going to be around in the future because of the cultural transformations? I highly doubt that…I think people will cling to these things even more tightly as a way to avoid feeling that they are losing their moorings. Certainly a lot of women will opt out as they become more aware of the biases and underpinnings of these traditions…but many will adhere to them even more strongly. These things are a way to show off, and they serve a communal function too. Just my guess.
I do think Indian languages will continue to deteriorate and that urban India at least will be primarily English-speaking in about 2 – 3 generations.
I’ve been on some of those hindu websites but did not find their discussions very interesting. Fighting is too exhausting and negativity is ultimately depleting. There has to be a better way. I think people have to make the most of life in a way that is most authentic to them. For many American hindus it is unthinkable to go back to tradition. Once you get a taste of individuality, you’re on your own. So why, when it comes to matters spiritual, do people all of a sudden start looking for meaning in the 3000 year old vedas? Wouldn’t it be better to go about the whole thing in the only way you really know how, and that is the scientific way? Did the ancient sages produce knowledge? What was that knowledge and how can it be arrived at? If part of that knowledge is that there are planets floating around in the skies, then study astronomy. If part of that knowledge is how to grow rice, then study agriculture. If part of that knowledge is that you need to be tough in order to withstand misfortunes, then go climb mountains. If part of that knowledge is to discover who you really are, then study physics or meditation. There’s no need to make it all into some big religion and talk about worship, sacredness, divinity and all that mumbo jumbo. In any case, there are no equivalent words for these concepts in any of the native Indian languages. Of course all that mumbo jumbo can be very soothing, but that does not mean it is religion.
And you cannot pretend to appreciate tradition either. So when people who do not really relate to tradition start pronouncing upon the evils of it, it cannot help but sound arrogant and obnoxious. Anyway, I appreciate the positive feedback. If it had come two days sooner I wouldn’t have gone and broken my new years no-smoking resolution over this.
It’s very easy to deprecate people’s efforts in the face of an overwhelmingly unfavorable power structure and centuries of physical and mental colonization. Someone wants to demolish a temple; after all, the Deity inside is an abomination to the true Creator, who is a Principled Being. Don’t the Dieties bicker among themselves? Didn’t Ram abandon his wife? Now what do you expect the traditionalists to do? Of course, they will try to defend themselves with the language of the aggressors. It does not necessarily mean they are alienated from their traditions, just that they can adapt without really ‘believing’ and play along in a rhetorical sense. Doesn’t the physicist play with equations all day but still retire for the night with a puja? He may also write a tract in defense of Ram Setu. Indians are adaptable in face of hostile situations. Just the very fact that a Divya can recover the essence (for lack of a better word) of her traditions in this day and age means that the networks are intact and thriving. Even Master Amardeep wears his turban without questioning its meaning.
I don’t believe in torturing yourself or others for the sake of keeping up traditions. To put it bluntly, we should have the freedom to pick and choose how we would like to worship , keep up the culture etc. as long as no one gets hurt, unfairly treated or discriminated against in the process.
It looks like traditions like Holi and Raksha Bandan, etc are some of the most popular celebrations and will be around for long time because of the fun element and it doesn’t cause too much pain to participants. (Although I wonder about whether the colored powder in Holi celebrations is lead free and if inhaling it will make it settle in the lungs for good.)
My kick to the horse: it is something of a generalization that rituals don’t mean anything, but it is true for more people than it is not, so in balance I agree with Divya. The success of a ritual, that is, how widely it is adopted, how many generations it survives, certainly does not depend on the original meaning written in some book (I don’t know a single person who has read all the four Vedas), but is based on its psychological impact. People select rituals based on how it makes them feel, whether it is fun, whether it makes them closer to the community, and whether it agrees with their sense of the world. Crudely speaking, there’s a cost-benefit analysis, and when the costs outweigh the benefits, the ritual is dropped. This happens all the time. Incidentally, this generation in my family has stopped celebrating Karva Chauth. That is, women in my parents’ generation did not force their bahus to do the fast. That is because the bahus work at jobs, and so the idea of them starving all day seemed impractical. They still do the fast and puja themselves, so it is not like they changed their mind about the ritual. They simply realized the ritual works for them but not for others. To have such an open mind to the efficacy of rituals requires a confidence in one’s identity which unfortunately is hard to maintain outside India. That is why negative remarks on an obviously outdated ritual such as karva chauth are interpreted as a general assault on Indian culture and traditions.
There is no contradiction in saying that rituals, even when meaningless, serve a purpose in people’s lives, and karva chauth sucks and is regressive and unfair to women, at the same time. One has nothing to do with the other. Unfortunately people, when defending tradition, fall into the trap of defending all tradition, and forget that traditions evolve and change with the times, just like everything else, not based on rereadings of scripture, but based on how they are judged by the human conscience of individuals.
Sakshi,
Very well put.
201 · Amitabh said
I think customs like Karva Chauth aren’t going to be around based on what I saw from past 2 generations. The strict fasts over once a month have been changed to once a year. Even the meaning of fasting has changed from ‘not even water’ to ‘fruits and milk allowed’. So, I don’t think strict adherence is going to be around. Specifically, since Hinduism is unorganized religion (borrowing Divya’s terminology), there is no religious authority impounding on rules of what must be followed. The societial pressures will decide what is acceptable.
Given the meaning of marriage itself is going to change (I dont’ have faith that the divorce rate in India won’t grow in next 50-100 years), what good is Karva Chauth then (it would be funny to know which husband a woman is keeping fast for)?
Indians have been losing their traditions to foreign influence for quite awhile now (no matter which religion). I guess the only people who cling more tightly to traditions are ex-pats. (I don’t want to open any new can of worms – but an example off the top of my head is Sri Lankan Tamils language preservation compared to Tamil Nadu Tamils.)
Traditions and culture are not static, they keep changing and not just in India. I mean US in the 1950’s was very different than it is now. You can’t blame all changes on India’s colonial experience. Besides all traditions are not necessarily great and all change is not necessarily bad. There is no one way to be.
This is a complete tangent but I don’t think the SL Tamil community considers itself to be an ex-pat community. They have been in SL in some cases for well over a thousand years. That is their home and their land. Their roots may lie in southern India but I don’t think that’s really on their mind all that much. As to why their language is more pristine than that of TN, I don’t know, but often languages in diaspora retain more purity and archaic features than they do in the homeland.
For that matter the roots of the Sinhalese people lie in India too. But that’s not really on their mind either.
208 · Yogi said
+1 to that!
209· Amitabh said
Agreed! Come to think of it, it was not such a relevant example to begin with :). But I guess, I managed to convey the gist. Especially, considering this part:
Just very quickly. Change must happen, should happen, does happen – for better or for worse. I am not blaming change on anything. I am blaming most english speaking indians’ interpretation and analysis of indian traditions through a colonial framework. When one culture encounters another (as the west encountered india), it sees the world through a particular framework. This framework may not have the wherewithal to make intelligible the culture it is observing. Yet we have not only adopted the same framework but are even sure that it is right. This is basically the problem I think I’ve been trying to talk about.
Divya wrote:
This has got to be the most absurd and ignorant statement on this thread. FYI, the Upanishads are considered the primary source and inspiration of all schools of Vedanta which is mainstream hinduism, and which predate colonialism by many many centuries.
Divya wrote:
More ignorance and absurdity. It is acknowledged in mainstream hinduism that meaning (as in the Upanishads) predates the stories and rituals. The puranas were written by Vyasa precisely to make the highest truths accessible to the masses. The degradation of spiritual culture, which you are extolling and defending, occurs when the meaning of the myths and rituals is lost over time. You appear to have an ass-backwards way of thinking.
Divya wrote:
More ass-backwards reasoning. FYI, adoration is love. Adoration of the deity is the meaning and purpose of puja. Love of God is very meaningful. Diligently performing puja as a meaningless act, while your mind wanders around in worldly concerns, will not bring you closer to God realisation. This is the current degraded state of affairs for many if not most hindus. Which you seem to think is hunky dory.
Why not? Based on your ridiculous argument that mindless and meaningless ritual is true spirituality it should, shouldn\’t it? Try to be consistent in your arguments.
If discipline alone could earn you true freedom, soldiers and athletes would all be liberated. Liberation or Moksha in hinduism is achieved through Bhakti: Love of God; Vairagya: detachment from the world; and Jnana: reasoning. Discipline in these paths is whats required. Discipline in worldly endeavors will earn you worldly rewards not spiritual liberation.
Prem @ 213 – The Upanishads cannot be mainstream hinduism because 95% of hindus have not read them.
@214 – there’s no such thing as mainstream hinduism. the “fact” that Vyasa wrote the puranas is part of the traditional lore. “Vyasa” in sanskrit simply means “compiler”. among serious scholoars, it is acknowledged that it cannot really be determined who wrote the various puranas. I don’t know what part of anything I wrote amounted to extolling and defending the degradation of “spiritual culture”.
@215 – why do you think we absolutely have to separate the worldly from the spiritual? Could it be a colonial mindset? Why do you find it unthinkable that we can go about our “worldly” endevors in a “spiritual” way?
We don’t have any Karva Chauth nonsense in Madras. It is not part of Ms Rai’s traditions either. So KC might be a Hindu tradition but it is confined to North India/Bollywood movies.
Divya brings up some good points (#217).
This southie (me) has never heard of Karva Chauth until reading this SM post also. In fact, the only fasts I heard of (that was connected to Hinduism/Indian/Ayurvedic customs) was fasting once in awhile due to health reasons. Now, I don’t know how healthy or widespread the practice of fasting is, but I guess it is a minor part of the culture today.
Now, I don’t know how healthy or widespread the practice of fasting is, but I guess it is a minor part of the culture today.
Every major religion has fasting as one of their components – Here is a list, and their significance.
I stand corrected every religion except Sikhism promotes fasting, and in Islam (where it is for a month during the month of Ramadan/ Ramzan), Judaism, Catholicism (both mainstream and versions like Opus Dei), Evangelical Protestantism (fastest growing religion, and increasingly popular activity), it forms an important religious activity.
Carol – You go girl.. you have made great posts.. and gosh people here just seem like the ones who love the sound of their own voice..
Gosh internet really is full of people who always have all these opinions but only a few actually have knowledge in what they are talking about
Aish never married a tree, it was just imagination of some B grade magazine and everyone ran along with it because it sounds funny..and all these pseudo intelligent desis, they found another excuse to show off how they are so “modern”.. and bash a celebrity
LOL. Sorry for the vulgarities, thought it was aptly funny. And besides, bad words don’t sound so bad in foriegn languages, now do they?
Karva Chauth, where to begin. Been present in India for many a season.
In the cities there’s a standard joke that this is the one day you will find cinemas packed with ladies only, because without eating, what else do they have to do at home? (A little insight into the class system there).
As a public figure it’s good that at least Ash’s hubby is stating he will fast also. This might influence some of their male fans to do the same act of solidarity with their wives. I wonder how the mother-in-laws feel about that though? Often when a young hubby tries to cook or clean around the house to help his wife, his mother won’t allow her “prince” to do any such thing. Can’t imagine too many Indian saas’s celebrating their sons fasting in solidarity with their bahu’s. The less time spent with her the better, seems to be the motto.
The funny thing about this holiday is that at the end of the day the wife is supposed to go to the roof top of her home and hold a plate up to the sky and capture the moon’s reflection in it. Then she is supposed to feed her husband a bite of food (which she cooked while fasting), and after his bite, she then takes a bite and breaks her fast.
She was fasting all day and she has to cook? She was fasting all day and HE gets the first bite?
Once on that day I asked one man who’s wife was fasting for HIS longevity what he was doing for her, he said, “my whole life is for her, I don’t need to fast”.
Whatevs.
And Karva Chauth was in November. Why is it being blogged about now as if it’s happening now?
Violet, once a person is divorced, they no longer have a spouse. If after divorcing they then remarry, they then have ONLY ONE spouse, that is the person they are currently married to.
Ex-husbands are not husbands.
When I was living in a small town in India the people there also assumed that somehow an ex-spouse was still a spouse and would joke and make fun of men or women who had 2 or 3 wives, when in reality, they had one wife or husband and maybe one or two EX-spouses. They did not get the idea of an ex-wife or ex-husband.
In fact, when my friend’s ex husband came to India to visit his son, she could not convince her landlord to give the man his own room. He insisted, “he is your husband, he will stay with you”.
Funny, the guy was never really her husband to begin with as they never got legally married anywhere. Nevertheless, she kept trying to explain to her landlord the concept of divorce and “ex”, but he would have none of it. The father of her child ended up staying with her, against her wishes.
Disclaimer; I’m aware that in Mumbai and a few other places in India where divorce may be more common, there are indeed people who DO understand these concepts.
“Wanted…”
Please don’t use a long handle name. Keep it short. Thanks.
OK. But let me just write what it was coz I think it’s a terrific play on words;
WANTED: A Karva Choot for a Karva Chod!
Hindi bhasha wallas will laff….
PS: what’s wrong with long handles? (no pun intended)
I am a little surprised about the frequent use of four-letter words both in English and Indian languages in a forum like SM. I thougt such use is not done in mixed company and in a public forum. A lot of times a point can be made without use of such words. I see important and serious issues discussed here by youngsters in a meaningful way. I learn a lot on SM about current events pertaining to desi Americans. Please understand I am not suggesting complete ban of any such words either.
UncleDude you are so regressive to be offended by four letter words.