Indolink.com carries a good article highlighting a study by Samir Patel, Nausheen Rokerya and Maneka Singh at Cornell University titled, Switchovers: Indian American Drinking Culture at Cornell
. The study claims to be the “first academic survey of ‘Indian American drinking culture’ in a college campus [setting].” The study sought to lock in on incoming desi undergrads who saw a particularly significant shift in their attitudes about alcohol (from something viewed as strictly taboo to something very normal and even necessary to have a good time).
Who were the subjects of this study? They were 12 Indian-American Cornell undergraduates – five male, seven female – who began drinking only after their freshman year of college. Demographically, nine were from the northeast, one was from the Midwest, one was from the west, and one was from the south. When questioned about their religious affiliation, three students identified themselves as being Jain, and nine as Hindus. [Link]
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Since most of the people that read this site have graduated from college, the rest of this will be a bit nostalgic (and may even make some of you nauseous). If you find yourself getting angry or thinking, “kids these days…” it means you are getting wiser (AND possibly that kids are getting dumber).
First of all the study reveals that all of the freshman students were shocked upon arriving at Cornell and witnessing the heavy drinking atmosphere among their senior Indian counterparts. All interviewees also indicated a struggle between a desire to maintain roots and yet still get the full experience of American college life.
The authors argue that the “switchovers” adopted mainstream American culture and that the “adoption of this culture and consequent ideological shift was caused by a combination of socialization needs, avoidance of fears, and academic pressures,” including the desire to be popular among the opposite sex.
The study begins by claiming that the abstinent culture of the average Desi student can be attributed to the strong Hindu background and their parents’ primarily educational immigration motive.
However, upon entering college, the same Desi students realize that the culture found at Cornell is radically different from that which they were used to at home. They were particularly surprised that this culture, which so heavily promoted drinking and partying, was so willingly embraced by the college Indian community. One student did not “expect that this many Indian kids would drink” and was stunned as to how much Desi students did drink. They found that this new culture assigned significant value to “having fun” and recreation, as well as doing well in school: the “work-hard, party-hard” mentality that many of their non-Indian high school friends embodied, was also a value for many Desis at Cornell. [Link]
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p>So let me break down for the researchers what I observed in college. For an increasingly greater number of students (desi and otherwise) “getting wasted” becomes a reward. It is something you deserve at the end of a long week for being an overachieving Indian student (even if your grades suck). Plus, everyone else is doing it and it might make it easier to talk to that girl/guy because, you know, maybe you aren’t that interesting otherwise. Another reason you may want to get wasted is because you don’t know how to tell your parents that you don’t want to be a doctor:
Many of the students apparently altered their life goals between the time that they entered college and the time that they began drinking, the study notes. According to the authors, this indicates a shift in ideology.
For example, one student’s goal during her freshman year was to do well in school so that she could prove to herself and her parents that she could in fact handle a Cornell workload. She never anticipated partying and socializing as being a big part of her life, but “the people [she] lived with went out to parties a lot so she went with them once in a while” and became exposed to alcohol. Similarly another student’s goal was to maintain a primarily academic focus. His goal was to excel academically, compensating for the fact that he did not get into MIT. During his freshman year, he placed “an emphasis on school work, not being social,” going out to parties only occasionally. Another male student said that his goal during freshman year was to “do well academically and get a high GPA.” A third male student’s goals were “not to get kicked out of Cornell, not to drink, to make good friends, to have a girlfriend, and to socialize…” [Link]
In August I attended a conference here in Houston titled, “Alcohol & Drug Abuse Among South Asians.” I was actually there to register people for the South Asian bone marrow registry but I did spend a good portion of the time listening to some of the talks. I was pleasantly surprised to see quite a few desi teenagers there with their parents. The better informed these parents are, the less of a chance their children will be shocked when they get to college.
After the students had switched over, they found themselves to be better assimilated into the Cornell culture. Whereas before the students often preferred to stay at home on weekends to study or relax, they now blended in with the rest of Cornell’s Indian drinkers, often starting their weekends off on a Thursday or even a Wednesday night. One student said that now he frequently “goes to the bars on a Thursday. Sometimes, [he’ll] even go on a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday, if [he doesn’t] have anything due the next morning.
The study concludes that desi students’ alcohol consumption served as a rite of integration.
A student promptly summed this up in her description of the Indian drinking scene at Cornell. “There were times when people got drunk, but most of the time, people were just buzzed. At a typical party, you’d see a couple of kids that were wasted, and everyone else would be pretty normal.” Another student recalls that even when he thought his friends were very drunk, they could act normal when they had to. He remembers, “Once my friend’s mom called him while we were walking home from a party. I thought he was going to say something stupid, but he played it off pretty well. She still doesn’t know that he drinks…” [Link]
So naturally, you know how this post is going to end. Let’s have it you anonymous commenters whose parents (unlike mine) are not reading this. Tell us about your first experience with alcohol IF it was in college like the students in this study. Let the college students of tomorrow learn from your collective experience 🙂
In my experience, DBD males seem to smoke a lot more in college compared to ABD guys.
I was conservative about drinking until I moved out of residence with four girls. One of my roommates made these unbelievable margaritas one night and got me completely soused. Don’t know why I abstained for two years in residence, but given the amount of brain cells I’ve lost drinking since then, I’m rather grateful.
I think ive only really met one other person who doesnt drink who isnt an ultra religious muslim.
Most muslims I’ve met don’t drink, ultra religious or not. I’ve met men and women that party, wear provocative clothing, listen to music, but on the ‘haram’-ness meter, it seems drinking alcohol ranks the highest.
However, Pinda, I also don’t drink as much, but not for religion or anything of that nature. I just don’t see whats “fun” or “having a good time” about getting dizzy, yelling loudly, puking, etc… plus I have no interest to support the alcohol industry.
yeah “ultra religious” might have been over kill. for that matter, most of the muslims i meet i very religious. i dont meet very many people who call themselves “muslim” that dont take it REALLY seriously. not sure why my sample would be skewed.
the reason i never drank is that i just saw downside in it. that, and i listened to my parents (because their advice tended to make sense to me).
In my observations at Cornell, as a grad student, the undergrad population liked to ‘think’ they were big drinkers and partiers on par with some of the big state schools, but they really weren’t. I’m comparing it with my undergrad experiences at the University of Illinois, which wasn’t even the best party school of the big 10. Southern/SEC schools are known to blow most of the country away.
Although, I must say ‘Slope Day’ was definitely an interesting experience in Ithaca. Thousands of students just show up on the ‘Slope’ on the last day of classes (tradition used to be the college offered graduating seniors a pint of beer on their last day), bring their own drinks, and get plastered. The Police only shows up to make sure nothing crazy happens, but they’re not looking for any underage drinkers. The University even has volunteers with golf carts flagging drunk people passed out, hauling them off NFL style to the area where volunteers help these folks to re-hydrate and stuff.
My buddy told me once that MIT was rated as a good party school once by Playboy sometime back….
Although, I must say ‘Slope Day’ was definitely an interesting experience in Ithaca.
It’s the only day the frat boys get up before 9 AM.
you know what they say about MIT….the goods are odd, but the odds are good…
Having one or two drinks is one thing, but getting drunk is NOT safe, especially for women if they drink til unconscious, they can and do often wake up raped, and it also occasionally happens to men. Alcohol brings one down, while ganja makes one high. Alcohol often aids in violent outbreaks which sometimes end in death. Ganja does not make one violent but rather chills one out. I’d rather kids smoke ganja than drink, it’s just safer and more benign and the resultant behaviour is more trippy than dippy.
oh, man…and i didnt even consider that part of the downside risk.
is there any data on how many desi students get started before college?
Haha, RotiEatingHokie, of course everyone you know drinks! you’re at Tech 😉
a lot of desi kids in college (as i remember it) used to act normal most of the time, then they drank alot and started acting like they were gangstas from the hood or something. they would tend to mistreat grls, then get into fights with each other. that sort of behavior led my young mind to the conclusion that i was different than every other human being on the planet. a feeling i never 100% shook off.
I’m shocked…shocked, I tell you! Kids go to college, see people drinking, want to fit in, start drinking themselves. Is it possible that brown kids are just like other kids?
Personally, I’m more distressed that a study based on a sample of 12 non-randomly selected (at least according to page 9 of the study) freshmen is considered an “academic” article.
Funny, a Punjabi friend of mine was really upset that a non-Punjabi friend made this comment over the weekend. It is indeed stereotyping, right? But, the problem I see is that Punjabis themselves often (not always of course) say this and in some sense take pride in it. How do you all feel about it? Should Punjabis take offense when people say that theirs is a drinking culture or that they are the biggest drinkers in India, etc?
I suppose it depends on context. In the case where someone is bragging about how they are punjabi and can therefore drink, it wouldnt be offensive. In the case where an aunti-ji says “dont marry them. they re punjabi. punjabis drink a lot and get divorce”. in that case, its gotta be bad.
Another point, and this is purely based on empirical observation, but I always got the feeling that there’s a correlation between a student’s financial situation and their attitude/philisophy towards college/drinking/partying/etc… That is, if a student is essentially, ‘rolling in it’ and parents don’t really have any issues paying the hefty bills, the kid is more likely (not always) to piss away the opportunity – or he doesn’t need it in the first place.
When I went to school, one of my classmates was the heir to the Coors Beer Empire, you know he’s not curtailing his drinking.. in fact he’s probably mandated by genes to drink up (everyone as a joke kept tempting him to drink Bud’s and Miller’s).
I’ve found that people who’s parents “put up the farm” so they could attend a good school wouldn’t be so cavalier towards missing classes, drinking every other night, etc..etc…
Yes it true most punjabi men drink alot. Punjabi jatts are the biggest drinkers of them all. Of course I may be one of the few punjabi men who are not religous that don’t drink.
Punjabi women on the other hand can only drink in private. Go to any punjabi wedding, and you will not see any women drink. If one did in the public, all the backward punjabi aunties would have a field day going off of the parents of the college educated girl drink, while forgetting the fact there thug son is in jail or dead.
You have to love punjabi culture in which a college educated girl who drinks, her parents are thought lower of then, the many punjabi parents who have sons who are drug dealers, in gangs, in jail or dead.
is that an exaggeration, or for real?
I think it’s his personal opinion/stereotype.
It not an exaggeration, and it’s very real in the Vancouver punjabi community. Just go to any punjabi wedding here, and you will notice that women will never drink, cause they afraid of what people will think.
I knew you’d show up on this thread sooner or later to begin the Punjabi bashing =)
i’m a recovering alcoholic and find very few young south asians that seek help dealing with alcoholism or drug abuse, often for fear of stigmatism, including self-stigmatism. It’s not unlike the big hush in south asian communities regarding mental illness. Older working class men seem more likely to give themselves to a program of recovery, admit they need help, find themselves in need of it. I’ve never seen a south asian woman seeking help, though I’ve known south asian women with the disease. In fact, I’ve found South Asian women in colleges particularly to devastate their lives dealing with freedom they’ve never had, along with the potentially soul-killing combination of boys and alcohol.
Tamilians drink alot of rum. My personal experience is that Indians in India drink more hard liquor than Indians in the U.S. For example, my parents are basically non-drinkers, but their siblings that live in India drink rum and water every night for a few hours leading up to their dinner and then afterwards until they go to bed. They also smoke cigarettes, which I find rarer and rarer among older south asians in the u.s. and more common among dbds than abds. Young south asians in u.s. drink more beer because beer is so popular here.
For me, I first got drunk on the night before I turned sixteen, enjoyed it but didn’t really want to admit to enjoying it as I was a weed smoker, thought alcohol was was for corny white people with no souls. I was later that year arrested for an assault while drunk when I was 16 but didn’t think much of it, went to a college with lots of drinking, considered myself somehow different and not really a drinker like those corny frat boy people, though I began to drink alot there. I found that I had a low tolerance (which I imagined, rightfully or not, to be related to my being an asian) but a high capacity; that is, I got drunk quick, but I could drink alot and I drank fast. I enjoyed what I perceived as literally ecstatic experiences with drugs, but eventually it all fell into a soup of very hard drinking, alcohol being the most powerful drug I every experienced, overwhelming the high of most anything other than lsd. Alcohol also helped me, as a south asian who often was perceived (rightfully perhaps) as somewhat meek, build up a good solid aggression and assholeyness that for whatever reason helped attract girls.
…as somewhat meek, build up a good solid aggression and assholeyness that for whatever reason helped attract girls.
I thought all women wanted were nice, caring, considerate, funny, [insert rest of hallmark card BS here], people? Well aw golly gee willakers.
thats hilarious….i agree being agressive attracts more attn somehow…
Tula says
it is a bit of an offensive stereotype that is best put to rest. I dont like it, but unfortunately the punjoos who dont drink are unlikely to catch that much attention – and when the gilassis are out, the drinkers who get noticed are the ones with the giant punjoo noses or the turbans.
and… my experience says that the punjabi (keshdari sikh or otherwise) contingent on any flight between toronto and desh enjoys its scawtch (sic). I have interpreted the requests of many such greybeards to the attendants myself. They sleep rather well after that. The well traveled ones carry around a litre of chivas themselves. I dont know if it’s a bad thing. The old dogs seem to hold it rather well, although I find it very uncomfortable if baoji starts making bawdy jokes. Bebe usually chips in with a few choice epithets. good fun.
seems to be an exageration but a littl truth to ‘guys will be guys’ and all that sort of thing you know
they had to do a study on this? Uh I could have told them this without them wasting school funds…
oh btw – I’ve had alcohol poisoning once. if we live we have learned.
since when did asking 12 people become an academic survey? that is a drunken conversation as a party winds down.
Personally I think it’s a bit offensive. This is not to say there isn’t a culture of drinking in Punjab, but I often wonder if it is greater or more severe than the drinking patterns of other communities. I have a feeling it’s not different, just more obvious. I meet plenty of Punjus who don’t drink, or if they do, they certainly don’t drink themselves into a drunken stupor (which is usually the stereotype affiliated with Punjabi drinking) nor do they “take pride” in being able to drink someone under the table. It just depends on who you interact with, but I think there’s more diversity in drinking patterns across the population than the stereotype indicates.
Oh, by the way, heavy drinking totally seemed to be affiliated with the “hard core Indo partying scene” when I was a or afforded it, but it also just seemed expensive and wasteful (why build a tolerance when you can save money and be a cheap drunk? I keed, I keed). I don’t know how much of this has to do with a high school to college transition or how much of it is just about being a frosh in college. Most of the people I knew in ugrad hadn’t really been drinkers before they got to college (desi and non-desi included).
There seems to be a strong correlation between college-age drinking in the US and a taste for awful beer like Bud Light and Coors Light. I admit, what to me is a tasteless, diluted waste of time and money could to someone else, taste like heaven. But I can’t see how! During my four years of college in India, I drank some pretty crappy beer too, but when I got the money, I moved on. I guess brand loyalty is pretty strong.
Also on the topic of desis partying, have y’all been to a big desi party where there wasn’t a fight? I haven’t.
You know what the really sad thing is! that the microbrews coming out of Colorado are truly an act of love and a wonderful refreshing drink. I had not drunk a full glass (after my poisoning incident) until I was in denver And took a sip of this wheat ale, a beautiful amber in color. I still keep myself to under a half-pint maybe once a couple of months, but request a taste test of whatever is on tap before getting a draw. Among the better relatively available brands, I would recommend this pilsner and this . There’s a beer brewed by some quebecois friars that’s supposed to be ambrosia, but my quest is yet unquenched.
After all it’s just a drink and not a cultural statement – but let it not be said that one has poor taste. One might as well be dead.
You haven’t tasted beer until you’ve had: (a) Old Milwaukee Light, (b) Natty Light, (c) Keystone Light, (d) Bo Ice or (e) Pabst Blue Ribbon.
Bud and Coors were high class in my college days. Icehouse was when we wanted to splurge but didn’t want to go quite up to the Bud level.
Historically in India its the low castes and outcastes who have been prone to alcoholism. Maybe that explains why Jatts are heavy drinkers?
The responses to my query have been enlightening. Punjabis = hard core drinkers (w/ “positive” connotation; I put it in quotations since it’s always subjective opinion of the one making the comment) has been something that I’ve heard so often fm Punjabis themselves that I assumed it wouldn’t be offensive when someone of another community made that comment. It brings to light an interesting problem — how do you squash stereotypes when people of the group in question are also the ones to propagate them? I can see this as a problem in a lot of minority groups.
I also find it amusing that much of the article’s cultural premises are based on an India Abroad article. This would be a D/F study, I imagine.
No 🙂 And, unfortunately, I’ve seen a fair share (although definitely not the majority) of fights at wedding receptions, too. What is that?
ive never seen that….although fighting drunks is enough reason for me not to go to desi parties….
HMF – trust you to take some random guy’s version of what women want as truth. Sometimes Hallmark gets it right (partly). (Some) women like to bang assholes. They don’t date them for long, and unless they’re doe-eyed young fools, they don’t marry them.
I am a Tamilian and I have no inborn affinity for rum. In fact, I hate it. My SL Tam family members are in the Johnny Walker fan club (occasionally the Chivas as well) but there are no fans of Rum.
Alcoholism has many causes but I was always under the impression that the capacity for imbibing large amounts of alcohol (without passing out midway) has a hereditary component, i.e. if a parent had a certain capacity, the children would inherit it etc.
this statement could be misconstrued. (PERHAPS NSFW!!!!!)
Yep, that’s what I’m talking about. Really, really stupid. Better to just smoke a little weed, chill out and be nice.
HMF and Noblekinsmen, you have to consider exactly what quality of girl is attracted to aggression and assholelyness and then consider if you want to actually attract that type of girl. Surely both of you young men are worth so much more than that?
This holds true in not only Punjabi culture but other male dominated cultures where questionable behaviour is more accepted for males than it is females because it’s seen as a “boys will be boys” type of the thing but females are held to a different standard. It’s not uncommon in many cultures even in today’s world.
I don’t drink. But when I have experimented (well, some hot chick wanted me to join in, and while I do not succumb to peer pressure, I felt no harm in letting her get in the mood!). So we had a shot contest. I drank 7 or 8 without any problems. Didn’t feel the slightest buzz. It was like drinking a lot of cough medicine. My dad has a high tolerance. He drinks normally and I have never seen him even slightly drunk. Then again, we are tall and big by Indian standards. So maybe that plays a big role in my tolerance.
Have not seen / been in a fight in 3 years. Damn 🙁 – I love a good fight especially one where is there is no rancour after the fight is over.
surprisingly fisticuffs are not very common in the weddings that I attended in India although more common in the diaspora. Any comments?
trust you to take some random guy’s version of what women want as truth.
oh because the opinions voiced by “some random guy” and further corroborated by Pinda, must be the only instance in the history of mankind where such views are voiced? I just followed up to noblekinsman’s comment because I’m nearly positive all the women he said were attracted to his ‘assholeyness’ would never state, “yes I am attracted to assholyness” rather probably the same hallmark cliche you put forth, but what people say they want and what they go for is rarely congruent.
Hmm…my skeptimeter just went red. 8 shots is about half a liter. I don’t care how big you are, if you didn’t feel a buzz, it wasn’t alcohol. Or atleast not enough of it.
Yes they should because it is not true. The biggest drinkers in India are the mallus !!! Kerala has the highest per capita consumption in India (followed by Punjab).
And as many other people have already pointed out, the situation is the same even in India, especially when you have people staying in Hostels, away from home.
I felt a tad sluggish. But nothing really mentally. And it was those fruity raspberry shots. So maybe less alchohol? And it is more probably 7, not that one less makes a difference.
i know many dbds who are hindu (and not necessarily ultra-religious) who don’t drink because of the cultural taboo associated with drinking in many middle class homes.
i know many dbds who are hindu (and not necessarily ultra-religious) who don’t drink because of the cultural taboo associated with drinking in many middle class homes.
I guess thats the way it started for me, then after looking at it from a logical POV, the cost (expensive drinks, loss of control, hangovers, puking, etc) outweighed the benefits (conforming to some bs ideal of whats “cool” or “fun”).