Via SALDEF, a report on a local Fox affilate about a probable hate crime that occurred in Burtonsville, MD, on September 15. (Warning, the images below are a bit graphic. You might want to finish your breakfast first.)
This particular story caught my attention because, first of all, the area is very close to where my parents live in Maryland. It’s a very safe area, and my folks go out for walks all the time, sometimes around dusk — this could have been someone I know (though in fact, I don’t know this particular family). Secondly, the gentlemen who were attacked are in their 70s, close to my grandfather’s age — and I’m particularly disgusted at the twisted version of national pride that might lead a group of teenagers to attack the elderly in this way.
The day after the two Sikhs were attacked, a Muslim man was attacked by a group of teenagers in the same town. That incident has not been detailed in the media, and I don’t know how badly the man in the second attack was injured.
Luckily, two arrests have been made. I’m not sure yet how they found the kids responsible, or whether further arrests are in the offing; we’ll probably hear more in the coming days.
Recently, Thomas Friedman wrote a column entitled, “9/11 is over.” I wish it were true — I gather he does too — though sadly that is clearly not the case.
This would never happen in London. I pity Sikhs in the US
It does happen in the UK sometimes SpicyBrownMunda, but mostly in small provinical towns where there are hardly any Asians, although not in London.
I have a friend whose Sikh Uncle went to a family wedding in Texas recently, and I specifically asked him what it was like. He said he never encountered any hostility in his three weeks there and he travelled quite alot. So you can’t generalise about entire countries.
Thats what I said mate. I know it happens in the UK, but not in London. Heard its quite awful for Sikhs in West Midlands. In general, where there are BNP (British National Party) politicians/supporters they’ll hate on any brown person. bloody xenophobic racist wankers
thanks to pakistanis, the f*cking BNP are gaining support and influence all over the UK, including London.
More like thanks to the pathology of the BNP. When it comes to demagoguery, everybody drinks from the same cup.
the demographics for the area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burtonsville%2C_MD
The racial makeup of the area was 52.05% White, 25.42% African American, 0.22% Native American, 17.62% Asian, 0.01% Pacific Islander, 1.64% from other races, and 3.04% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 5.60% of the population.
If you heard it’s awful for Sikhs in the West Midlands, your judgment is even more suspect. The West Midlands is along with London, the most multicultural part of the UK, and culturally and demographically, one of the main places for Sikhs (and Indians) in the whole country. Sikhs (or any other ethnic minority) don’t have problems like this in the West Midlands.
Amen, brother!
Ok.
Great.
You’re not Jatt. : p
Amardeep, thanks for posting the update, and I’m really glad the police is making headway in the case. I hope there are well-publicized and successful prosecutions and some exemplary sentences are handed out. Apart from being a diverse community, as Razib points out, Burtonsville is barely five minutes outside the DC beltway. While these things should not happen anywhere, it is certainly a matter of great concern that they could happen in a diverse metropolitan area just outside the national capital. While lowering the temperature of the national rhetoric around 9/11 will certainly help, as Tom Friedman also points out, that will take a while. And even after that happens, unfortunately there will still be the risk that such things could happen. As the comments about BNP in Britain tell us, otherizing discourses arise from sources outside the direct rhetorical ambit of 9/11.
Bobby – Where do you live?
Camille – Are you Hindu Punjabi? or non-Jatt Sikh? Real Punjabis are Jatts.
I’m officially done with SM. Too many confused ignorant Indian Americans here.
Cheers!
Goodbye.
Camille – Are you Hindu Punjabi? or non-Jatt Sikh? Real Punjabis are Jatts.
“Real Punjabis are Jatts”? What kind of caste-ist nonsense is that?
If you’re really leaving SM, good riddance. (In any case, I just banned you.)
Jesus f*cking christ… that’s all I’ve got to say.
I’m curious though- were the attackers white or black?
Nala, no word on that. The attackers are also minors, so it’s unlikely that their names or identities will be released publicly.
Woot, woot! I feel more comfortable without the constant intimidation of your height and Scythian-ness. ๐
Sincerely, An ignorant Indian American
amardeep and rob:
i think 6-3SpicyBrownScythianMunda has been attempting some spoorlamish type parody for some time now…ever since that 6-4 scythian army guy appeared in a thread a few months back.
i’m finally with no von. hate groups are responsible for their own pathology. the culture from which they sprang may also want to examne how they enabled such pathology. and only after that should we look at external factors…pakistan, american foreign policy, etc.
This was a nasty attack for which there’s no excuse. But I think there’s something about the whole “mistaken identity” talk that is wrong-headed. First, people don’t only hate sikhs because they mistake them for Muslims. They’ve been hating them for a while. In new jersey/ny, they still hate them basically for being in business and I’m sure that’s the case elsewhere.
There is something somewhat bothersome in the Sikh insistence that they not be mistaken for Muslims. On one hand, fine, I understand the desire to be properly recgonized. But on the other hand, I do wish there was a more than occasional word from such poltical advocates as in the newspiece that say “and you shouldn’t beat up muslims either.” Perhaps that isn’t their business, but I think it is. Eventually, I don’t think it actually is mistaken identity that causes more sikhs to face violence post 9/11. It’s general intolerance. If a Sikh in Howard Beach (or maryland in this case) was able to sit the attacker down, explain the difference between his religion and Islam, differences in his regional background and linguistic background, all that stuff, the attacker would still attack him.
I don’t understand the London comments. Are you saying nobody attacks a sikh in London because the sikhs are too tough and thick in numbers? I don’t buy it. According to the newspiece, DC is 2nd most densely populated sikh place in US. Further, these black kids in brooklyn are known to be thick in numbers and tough, full of political clout, but they get chased on highways, beaten with bats, etc. But perhaps there’s something else to the comments, and if so, explain why such an attack would not happen in london.
Landmark Education is working with various government officials in various countries, hoping to end war by 2012. That probably won’t happen.
Two big buildings went down and several hundred Americans died on 9/11. That’s “what happened”. And since that day we’ve been hearing a BIG STORY around that event. As they would say in Landmark; “IT HAPPENED. GET OVER IT ALREADY.”
Time to move on.
Youth of today need to learn to respect elders as well.
Actually, I get the impression that lots of Sikh organisations do make that point all the time.
How would you know? The nature of alot of these attacks seems to be that the victims are singled out because of their appearance, which feeds into specifically anti-Muslim paranoia and racism. As such, they are related to 9/11 and all the ‘backlash’ surrounding the heightened demonisation of people of this appearance. For you to even dismiss that as a possibility seems a litte rash and fatuous.
he’s the same person… i think in a thread while back he said he was going to change his name… good thing he’s gone too… what iof he found out that I’m a non-punjabi non-idian lurker?? ๐
amardeep, i think i saw somewhere that the attackers were black.
I’m really confused about how an agreement with NVM on the racist, fascist, anti-VME proclivities of the BNP somehow challenge my identity. Crazy. At any rate, thanks, Amardeep ๐
noblekinsman, this is actually one of the most frustrating things — in my opinion — when doing coalitional work around hate crime issues. I understand that Sikhs don’t want to be confused with Muslims, and while SOME spokespeople are vocal about it being inappropriate to target Muslims, not everyone in the community realizes that sometimes their comments seem to tacitly accept marginalizing/targeting Muslims. All that said, if it’s any consolation, there IS conversation in the community about framing their responses in a more conscientious way. It’s just that those responses don’t always get media coverage.
I’m also confused about the London commentary — up through 1995 at least 50% of hate-based violent crimes in London neighborhoods were against desis, and within that group, at least half were Sikh. Maybe things have changed substantially in the past 10 years, but the pessimist in me doubts that all areas of London feel “safe” for desis, including desi Sikhs.
Tara, I don’t mean to be rude or unkind, so I apologize if this doesn’t convey my tone well, but does EVERY topic have to come back to a plug for Landmark?
amardeep, i think i saw somewhere that the attackers were black.
i looked it up on google news and couldn’t find anything….
hmm… i forgot where i saw it but let me look for it, yesterday i saw it (then again i was up to my eyeballs in coffee..), maybe i’m getting my stories mixed up, if i did, i’m sorry. ๐
I suck.. I’m sorry.. I got my stories mixed up :(. I’m sorry. Peace!!
@ # 12..Nala …that explict and unparlimentary language is the domain of Christian dissidents, not others. Have the gall to use relevant names from your own background. I’m afraid you don’t have rights to that particular expression.
Where are the secularists when we need em?
camille, as they teach in landmark, GET OVER IT!
I think telling people to “get over” harrowing, traumatic events is misguided at best and indefensibly obnoxious at worst. Until you’ve suffered through X, don’t presume that you have any concept of how it feels or might affect you. Beyond that, different people are affected differently; a one size fits all slogan of “get over it” doesn’t seem to take that in to account. If it was so easy to “get over” things, many people would.
Camille, I didn’t find your point rude, at all. Hyping something which someone endorses to the extent which “Landmark” has been mentioned recently is a violation of our commenting policy.
If one of you loves something and it has changed your life, create your own blog and detail exactly that there— hurling “Landmark” at every thread to see if it sticks does the program far more worse than good. I have a dear friend who is a Landmark alum and Tara’s over-reliance on it as a response to every topic has undone whatever good will I had towards a program I previously thought of positively. ๐
Tara, since you love Landmark so much, may I sincerely suggest that you chill with the “get over it”s and the constant referencing of it? I’m sure it would appall you if it turned out that you’re turning people off to a worthy opportunity, but that’s exactly what you are doing (and it’s not just me who is feeling that way).
ohhhhh. this whole time i thought it was a joke.
Yeah, I thought it was some sort of parody thing – except that there were too many people named “SpicyBrownScythianMunda” around, some varying only in their purported heights and in the degree of their weirdness, so I wasn’t sure if it was the same person or a bunch of copycats.
Real Punjabis are Jatts. I’m officially done with SM. : sounds like a suicide attempt.
If you’re really leaving SM, good riddance. (In any case, I just banned you.) : capital punishment for attempted suicide! Failsafe! ๐
it sounds like a parody but he like’s to throw “scythian” “jatt” and “punjabi jatt” around… same MO same person… a parody wouldn’t be so blatant.. right?
i mean to say “likes”
if i recall, the first guy was an american soldier living in the south. this guy sound british, even using the term “mate” at one time. but if its the same guy, its clearly a cry for help from someone having an identity crisis. poor poor little Scythian.
i am pretty certain they are different guys. same scythian sense of humor though.
sorry i meant to say, same scythian sense of “humor“ (or are the quotes a redundancy since i said scythian already?)
well whoever he is aren’t we glad he’s gone?? i think he or they was/were the proverbial pink elephant in the middle of the room. he wanted people to say “oh you superior handsome godlike scythian you!!” (hmm i threw up in my mouth a little)but no one ever gave him that satisfaction. no matter how loud he blew his own horn.
People, please get back on topic.
if what I said was against SM comment policy, I apologize. Otherwise…. it’s an expletive that you get used to living in America, a country that is mostly Christian, especially if you’ve gone to public school and have listened to kids curse in the schoolyard. Sometimes I say ‘Arey Ram’ or ‘Sai Nada Sai Nada’ or ‘Abba,’ but that’s mostly around people who come from the same background. Please tell me where I can find this particular bill of rights that you speak of?
Back on topic… In the video clip, they mentioned that the police comissioner (I think that’s what they said his position was) released a statement but didn’t state that the crime was a hate crime. Why would he possibly not do that??
senator john mccain, welcome to sepia. personally, i prefer “blazing shiva balls”. only for cursing, not in my ziti, mind you.
Maybe I should clarify that by saying ‘a country in which the majority of the population identifies as believing in the Christian faith.’ I believe in the separation of church and state and all that.
noblekinsman @17 and camille @21, i agree fully. wasn’t there a recent documentary about crimes against sikhs too? but most of the criticisms take the tone of “hey, don’t come after us because we’re not them” rather than “not only are you a racist, you are an idiot too”.
and can they please stop pronouncing it poon-job?
also, can someone clarify once and for all the correct pronunciation of ‘sikh’?
They pronounce it that way because it is often spelled Punjab instead of Panjab. However if it was spelled Panjab they would probably pronounce it Pan as in frying pan, jab as in I jabbed her in the arm.
like under is pronounced oonder, and lunge is pronounced loongay?
seek and ye shall find.
I’m talking about Landmark too much. Understood. I’m just enthusiastic. I’ll try to contain myself in the future. However;
You might want to examine why you are so easily influenced as to let your good-will towards something become undone simply because an unknown poster on the internet comes off as over-zealous.
nala, it’s Sikh with a short “i” (not “seekh”).
Tara, it’s ok. I like reading your opinion, but it was hard to find it between all the Landmark-plugging. I think it would have been that way for others, so I don’t think ANNA’s reaction is unique or a sign of some kind of personal shortcoming.
dravidian lurker, I know ๐ And to be honest, I have heard people say it’s ok to profile Muslims. Clearly the whole “unity in struggle” idea hasn’t gotten through.
Tara, there’s a concept called giving people their space instead of being pushy. Landmark acolytes are not familiar with it, or choose to ignore it. That’s why I prefer Krishnamurthi – I don’t have zealots constantly shouting in my ear how great J.K. is/was and how they have seen the light after reading J.K.’s books (not much different from Randroids). I can go at my own pace. Though I can understand that sometimes pushing the envelope or challenging people can lead them to insights, but it’s usually acceptable from people we trust – not from strangers on the Internet. That’s pretty rare IMO. So, maybe you should examine yourself as to what exactly are you trying to achieve by being pushy, and whether it is being effective or not. A pragmatic person also does some evaluation of one’s efforts. Sorry, Amardeep for the OT comment.
How could the 9/11 mentality of suddenly being attacked by some vaguely defined network of malicious individuals ever leave the american psyche with nearly every American politician facing re-election, or needing support on a single issue, reciting it as a mantra in the hopes of precluding all possibility of rational thought?
For some people, it’s turban=muslim=arab. I would be very surprised if their assailants knew they were Sikh and even a smidgen of what that might entail.
You are correct. From the Montgomery County department of police web site: [link]
Nala, Just as many a time here at sepia, people have voiced their dissent at being treated unfairly for being Sikh, Hindu and Muslim..this does not give you the leeway to use somebody elses religious beliefs, however common it may be, as a statement of disbelief.Would it be fair if the expression were to include a hindu god/godess? I’m well aware of American slang as well as equally adept at the use of swear words. But please restrain yourself and think of what you say yeah? It is absolutely unfair and unfortunate if you use such language if we are expressing our dismay on a RACIAL and Religious attack. The bill of rights you ask for is the same one where Whites are frowned upon for the usage of the N-word. I’m sure there is something in the fine print ๐