So…despite what some might allege, I do NOT keep dosa pr0n up on the main page for an extra long, torturous time, not on purpose, at least. To prove this, I wanted to publish something newer for you mutineers. Off to the News Tab I went…and then I saw this:
Karunanidhi calls Lord Ram a ‘drunkard’, Advani fumes
WOW. Look, I don’t pretend to know about either the Ram Setu controversy OR politics in India, but like any idiot with half-a-functioning brain, I do know (Mandink-aaaa) that it would be disrespectful and hurtful to call a revered religious figure a “drunkard”, especially in uber-devout India. Some of you may be asking, what is going ON over there? Well, for those of you at home who haven’t been following this controversy (coughguiltycough), here’s a brief explanation:
The Sethusamudram Shipping Canal Project proposes linking the Palk Bay and the Gulf of Mannar between India and Sri Lanka by creating a shipping canal through the shallow sea sometimes called Setu Samudram, and through the island chain of Rama’s Bridge, also known as Adam’s Bridge. This would provide a continuous navigable sea route around the Indian Peninsula. The project involves digging a 44.9 nautical mile (83 km) long deepwater channel linking the shallow water of the Palk Strait with the Gulf of Mannar. Conceived as early as 1860 by Alfred Dundas Taylor, it recently received approval of the Indian government. [wiki]
According to the Hindu scripture Ramayana and beliefs, Sri Rama and His Vaanar Sena built a bridge from Rameshwaram to Sri Lanka thousands of years ago. Some Hindu organizations and religious figures, including the Shankaracharya of Puri, have opposed the project, pointing out that it would destroy the “Ram Setu”.
Others have opposed the project on environmental grounds, and fears of the effect it will have on the livelihood of some 20 million fisherfolk in the coastal districts.
The Union government admitted in late 2007 that there was no historical evidence to establish the existence of Ram or the other idols in Ramayana. In an affidavit filed before the apex court, the Archaeological Survey of India too rejected the claim of the existence of the Ram Sethu bridge in the area where the project was under construction. A day later, the affidavit was withdrawn under pressure from Hindu fundamentalist parties. However, the State government of Tamil Nadu continue to maintain its official stance and refused to review the project. [wiki]
Got all that? Good.
The Chief Minister of Lemuria, Karunanidhi, is an atheist. That is why he is extra vexed about any religious-based objections to this shipping canal. A Senior Leader of the BJP, Lal Krishna Advani, thinks Karunanidhi has got some nerve on him.
The war of words over the Ram Setu degenerated into a bitter slander match on Thursday with Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi calling Lord Ram a ‘drunkard’ and a ‘big lie’.
Karunanidhi reacted with these bitter words after senior BJP leader Lal Krishna Advani on Thursday asked him to withdraw his statement about Ram, saying “people at the helm of affairs do not force contempt on others as far as religious affairs are concerned.â€
“I want the Tamil Nadu CM to withdraw his statement about Ram. I respect Karunanidhi for being an atheist. But people at the helm of affairs do not force contempt on others as far as religious affairs are concerned,†Advani, the Leader of the Opposition in Lok Sabha, said…[IBN]
…to which, the Chief Minister replied…
Karunanidhi shot back in no time, saying he remains firm on his stand. “I will not withdraw my statement.“
“Ram is as big a lie as big as the truth of the existence of the Ganges and the Himalayas,” he said. The TN Chief Minister even went on to call Lord Ram a ‘drunkard’.
“Even Valmiki has said that Ram was a drunkard. I urge Advani to get into a debate with me after reading Valmiki’s Ramayana,” Karunanidhi said.[IBN]
Oh, my.
Lately, Ram Setu has popped up on at least one SM thread, specifically the uproar over calling Ram fictional or mythical:
In the wake of the Ram Setu controversy, Karunanidhi had described Lord Ram as a ‘mythical hero’ and vowed to not go back on the Sethusamudram project.
“Is there any proof of Ram having built the bridge, or that he had the engineering expertise… There was no person in the name of Ram. The story of Ram is authored by Valmiki in Ramayana. There are so many things that Valmiki has said about Ram,” Karunanidhi said.[IBN]
I do believe that at one inappropriately hilarious moment during this fustercluck, Karunanidhi tried to make a point by asking where Ram went to engineering school? What the…? I mean, obviously he went to IIT. Just like Jesus went to Harvard.
No, seriously, what kind of pointless, snickering question is THAT? And doesn’t this man value his LIFE? Or, I don’t know, his family’s?
On Tuesday evening, Karunanidhi daughter Selvi’s house in Bangalore was attacked by unidentified miscreants in a development that was seen as a fallout of his comments. Karunanidhi slammed the attackers, saying “they showed the culture of Ram Bhaktas (worshippers). I treat these things like a speck of dust. I welcome such opposition.â€
He likes to talk some smack, doesn’t he? Yowza.
”The Ram Sevaks have proved their culture. I reiterate what I had said. There is no historical proof that Rama existed or of the bridge been built,” he said.[IBN]
I know that some of you are outraged over this (and I sympathize completely…I may not be of the same faith, but I’m a person OF faith), so I hope we can all take a collective deep breath before discussing this. I know I’m not the only one who is interested in reading what some of you have to say.
Ouch, that hurts. SM is about the community because SM is a community, one I’m truly proud of. I love this strange little online space and that’s why I devote myself to it.
“Coverage” is not so cut and dry (much like the topic of this post!)– yes, we each write about what interests us, but even then, we can’t write about EVERYTHING which interests us because we have day jobs, etc. So, usually, the factor which decides whether a story gets posted is time– the lack of it. 99% of you are very compassionate about this and we are grateful for it.
Now back on topic!
Isn\’t it heartening to know that the ranks of the \”Brights\”=Atheists are swelling. Way to go Karunanidhi!! The ridiculous monstrosity of religion should be ridiculed into \”oblivion\”
the likelihood of religion disappearing due to oblivion is as high as the second coming of christ. though i agree that someone needs to be in the ridicule business!
What an arrogant putdown of a perfectly reasonable request from yabadaba. At least Anna came back with a more reasonable response.
well, perhaps SM needs an open thread or something. i don’t read some comment threads because the topics don’t interest me. i read others because they do interest me. the immigration march or whatever doesn’t interest me, and if they posted 10X a day on it i wouldn’t read any of those posts. perhaps SM should have and open thread where people can make the case en masse for particular posts without dropping into other discussions which are humming along. also, perhaps we could open up a third column which is titled “very serious posts about very serious issues which the community must read about & discuss” so that those of us not interested could leave closed.
well, neocon’s a vague term with different meanings, but Strauss and bloom are often cited as its philosophical forebearers. their political philosophy is also so nebulous that it covers a lot of ideological ground, as opposed to say libertarianism.
Leo Strauss, father of neoconservatism,
OY. I already spend all day moderating! 😉 No open! No openings! NOOoooo!
I was sloppy with my wording. I do not speak for the SM admins. I am a reader like you. I meant diaries and comments in talking about it.
Anna, nice post, with content and links providing a lot of background. Unfortunately, I haven’t followed the issue in sufficient detail to say exactly how the opposition to the Sethusamudram project around the Rama (hi)story got built up. But it is clear to me, that both sides are playing politics in the name of religious (or atheistic) sentiments – the Advanis and the Karunanidhis both.
Karunanidhi’s recent statements are gratuitously insulting and literally incendiary – extremely dangerous in places like Bangalore, where there is a history of anti-Tamil riots over other issues (Cauvery water sharing) and economic resentment over the success of local Tamil residents as well. I hope nothing much comes of it, and the IT companies, if nobody else, pressure the local administration into keeping the peace.
Karunanidhi’s state and ultimately his government and party will benefit from both the investment in the construction of the canal and from the higher trade and maritime traffic that would result – so he’s looking at that.
I agree that (i) if there were no serious adverse environmental impact and (ii) the saving in shipping time is truly significant – the project could go ahead, and the religious objections mollified in some way. But the saving in shipping time is nothing even remotely comparable to that which justified the Suez and Panama canals. This is why the whole thing should be looked at more carefully, and I’m not sure that has happened.
I read in a link that Kush posted on the newstab some days ago – that the Adam’s Bridge might have prevented the December 2004 Tsunami waves reaching Kerala, and southernmost Tamil Nadu. (The waves and waters, on the other hand, damaged Sri Lankan coasts on both sides, and also went all the way into Mauritius, Madagascar, even Somalia, Tanzania on Africa’s east coast. Not as much as in Asia, but still much more than Kerala – where it was almost nothing. Since the earthquake zones in the East Bay of Bengal littoral will be active in the future, the enhanced tsunami risk should be properly considered in the decisionmaking for the project.
Now this is a serious issue in itself, one that I hope will be discussed in more detail here and in the MSM and in India. However, it is even more serious than just that, because, at the very southernmost tip of the peninsula, near Kanyakumari, India is currently building its largest nuclear plant, Koodankulam, with Russian help. This plant will have a capacity of 2 GW by Dec 2008, and that will be about 40% of the installed nuclear capacity in India as of then. It is proposed that another 2.5 GW will be added soon after, so that the location will then be the largest nuclear power plant in the world. The safety of that facility, especially since it is on the sea, and close to the Equator, and directly in the path of a tsunami from the Bay of Bengal, must explicitly be considered. I hope they have done that, though I rather fear they might not have. The Kalpakkam Nuclear Power Plant near Chennai on the East coast did suffer damage during the tsunami, and so did the fast breeder reactor also located there. So the concern is not merely academic. If the Sethusamudram project increases the vulnerability of Koodankulam, that must be properly considered.
So while the issue is being framed as one of ‘religious obscurantism’ – there are a whole bunch of economic, environmental, climatological, geomorphological, and even geopolitical issues just under the surface. For example, it has been suggested that if substantial shipping traffic began to go through the Sethusamudram canal, it would give India a strategic advantage in the 21st century! These things must be carefully considered, and a full airing of the issues should occur before the narrative of ‘atheist insults Hindus’ takes over.
Razib — the news tab functions as an open thread. Allowing comments on the news tab is an option, but given the nature of the SM Community (50% ass**les, 50% whiners, and me) someone would have to monitor the threads.
A better idea is a guest blogger who is interested in DBD issues. But ultmately, SM community members (that is, the commentors) have to be interested in a topic for a comment thread to work (the same problem arises with Muslim and/or Pakistan issues). You may be representative, and maybe SMers are not interested in immigration. One blog cannot be all thigns to all Desis.
well, neocon’s a vague term with different meanings, but Strauss and bloom are often cited as its philosophical forebearers. their political philosophy is also so nebulous that it covers a lot of ideological ground, as opposed to say libertarianism.
yes, it is a vague term. and strass and bloom were influences, but so was plato. but instead of allowing vague terms to become more expansive, if you are a neocon it seems like you should be careful about including in people who don’t really “fit.” my own perception of neoconservatism is from irving kristol’s book reflections of a neoconservative, though that’s a bit dated.
Pravin – “Curisor, Trust me. I got a lot to say about that stuff too. But people like Anna on this site have done a great job understanding other religions more than many Hindu Indian Americans. So I am not going to start bashing all the beliefs of these religions I find amusing if they are not related to the diary entry at hand. If someone puts up an entry on evolution debate in US schools, people like me won’t hold back on the stupidity of Christian fundies or in the case of Sania Mirza’s dress, how the Islamic fundies needed to get a life.”
In comment # 4 you did not challenge only the Hindu fundamentalists, you challenged the very authenticity of the Ramayana, which for most Hindus is as holy as the Bible for the Christians or Quran for the Muslims.
Wow, 50+ comments in just over an hour – seems to be a fairly hot button topic. Wonder why! 😀
SkepMod said it well early on:
I totally agree with this from the lower reaches of my left ventricle. As a Tam person with an engineering background from Madras, I am totally disgusted that an engineering project off the TN coast is being “evaluated” (both positively and negatively) by nutjobs on the basis of religion. It is tough for me to find humor in this mess (and that’s saying a lot given that I usually like to make jokes about everything).
What I find particularly irksome is that (within TN) there is a fight brewing along the following lines:
What I would particularly like to know is:
you challenged the very authenticity of the Ramayana, which for most Hindus is as holy as the Bible for the Christians or Quran for the Muslims
do people agree with this? i’ve read a fair amount of hindutva material recently and it seems that a better analog to the bible or koran are the vedas.
oh snap. i’ve been hearing from more and more from people who watched those serials. i couldn’t sit through the whole thing again. but, man, i was crazy addicted to those shows. remember dhuryodhan and bhim fight in the end. yeah that was dope.
Ikram – “I really doubt Mr. Abbas Naqvi thinks Ram was real. So what’s the state of his mental bank account?’
Are you doubting his sincerity because he is Muslim?
Razib
The ridicule business has started and no wonder from the scientific elite, who finally and just in the nick of time have decided that there is a real danger of faith pushing the human species back into the Dark Ages. Check this out. http://beyondbelief2006.org/
Many of you would want to be a part of this movement.I know there are a lot of closeted \”Brights\” who would normally shy away from ridiculing irrationality, straining to speak out.
And I do not believe in Christ as a real son of God and i do not believe Muhammad actually heard the voice of God. I made comments about Islam with friends when talking about the South Park controversy over the depiction of Muhammad. And when people tell me I am not saved, I do give them my sarcastic take on Christ and Mary. Besides my comments were in reaction to people already threatening Karunanidhi for his speech. I would not go unsolicited and tell someone they are an idiot for believing in Rama building that bridge or even if he was real or not.
strauss and bloom are more than influences like plato, they are considered to be the founding fathers of this nebulous political philosophy. and if you read them (i’ve never read strauss but am more than familiar with bloom) you see how they are all about subtly and nuance, to the point that people have no idea what they are talking about or what they stand for even after reading them, as opposed to say rand.
in general, neocons seems conservative but are really liberal at heart. thus social conservatives read blooms “closing of the american mind” while being oblivious to his athiesm (or homosexuality). this work, one of my favorites, is seemingly conservative in its attack on multiculturalism but is very liberal at heart,(thus the title, which bemoans a rising closed-mindedness on campus).
so the nature of neoconservatism is that it will always be somewhat undefinable. it embraces apparent contradictions, the anti-communist liberals, colonialists who spread democracy, athiests who cite the bible (like bloom), idealists who are instructed by machiavelli.
Thank you anna,
Thank you so much. I was gonna ask you to post bout this as blogs everywhere have been screaming bout the identity crisis ‘Lord Rama’ is facing. This is my current fav topic and I’ve been doing so much research bout it , I hope it meanders into a mega thread…..
do people agree with this? i’ve read a fair amount of hindutva material recently and it seems that a better analog to the bible or koran are the vedas.
In North India, particularly the Hindi belt, the Tulsidas Ramayana enjoys very high ritual status, so I can see some people making the claim that it has the status of the Koran does to Muslims. Some scholars believe that the Tulsi Ramayana was the Hindu answer to “the people of the Book.”
While the Vedas are regarded nominally as the “highest,” keep in mind that the recitations were restricted for the most part to Brahmans, though ideas from the Vedas certainly percolated through the Puranas, which were transmitted orally, from village to village in festivals.
The Kamban Ramayana is the Tamil Ramayana. Its widely regarded as the greatest literary work ever written in Tamil. It was written by a non-Brahmin. However, it doesn’t have the same status that the Tulsi Ramayana does in North India. The Tamil Vasihnavas have their own “fifth Veda” comprised of hymns from 12 Vaishnava Saints known as Alwars.
Bottom line; There is no one book for Hindus.
chachaji@57: I heart your analysis!
Serious non-rhetorical question: can a shipping canal change the topography of the sea floor so much that it can affect tsunami propagation characteristics?
Also, I have read two (conflicting) accounts in the media of the planned implementation of the canal: one involves the large-scale dredging of Adam’s Bridge to make the sea floor deeper throughout, and the other involves making a cut (literally dredging out a channel) through Adam’s Bridge. Does anyone know which is correct here?
The ridicule business has started and no wonder from the scientific elite, who finally and just in the nick of time have decided that there is a real danger of faith pushing the human species back into the Dark Ages. Check this out. http://beyondbelief2006.org/
brother, no need to preach.
a) i’ve watched EVERY one of the beyond belief segments already b) i was involved in the atheist movement in college c) so trust me, faith that the promised age is coming will be in vain
and if you read them (i’ve never read strauss but am more than familiar with bloom) you see how they are all about subtly and nuance, to the point that people have no idea what they are talking about or what they stand for even after reading them, as opposed to say rand.
straussian ideas of “reading” sound really PoMo to me.
in general, neocons seems conservative but are really liberal at heart.
the premises of neoconservatism are fundamentally liberal. i wrote for the american conservative, so i know plenty of people who would call neocons liberals 😉
“mutazili views still exist in shiism.” .. Interesting read. But still, a statement like that by Karuna would be viewed as blasphemy by contemporary islam in majority, whereas athiests are not considered extremely dangerous in hinduism, otherwise the leftist & south indian self proclaimed atheist power centers wouldn’t have been there.
Theres an international angle to this as well, apparently the americans want to make these international waters ala suez canal.Though we only have the vhp account of things on that, I didnt get any more info.
BTW this project is done with. No one wants to give the communal parties the fodder they need to come out of the doldrums – it’s not happening. Any believe the insertion of the ASI material was sabotage? Who would be foolish enough to put that in there, considering the fact that anger about Ram is what catapulted the BJP parties to power in the first place? Then again…
Interesting read. But still, a statement like that by Karuna would be viewed as blasphemy by contemporary islam in majority, whereas athiests are not considered extremely dangerous in hinduism, otherwise the leftist & south indian self proclaimed atheist power centers wouldn’t have been there.
in Alternative Tradition: A Study of Unbelief in the Ancient World the author claims that the ‘blasphemy’ of groups like the carvaka in india did not have to do with their atheism since that is an acceptable position within the hindu tradition. rather, it was their rejection of karma and absolute materialism (and rejection of metaphysics as a whole).
Quoting risible:
Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity! 😀
I coudl never get into the Hindi versions. I preferred the South Indian portrayals of Hindu gods, especially NT RamaRao’s. Mayabazaar is a must see for those into this kind of stuff. For me the difference between South Indian and North Indian versions is like the difference between black churches and white churches in terms of the fun aspect. I am just saying this based on my own experience, not as an absolute truth or anything.
The ramayana, mahabharata and Bhagavad Gita have been translated, abridged and thus more market friendly. The tulsidas ramayan is one classic example of taking the scriptures to the masses. The ramayana and mahabharata have the advantage of being story-based and hence the masses find them engaging and easy to grasp. The finer plots are laced with pearls of wisdom on daily life, administration, dharma etc.
The 400 questions that Bharata asked Rama before the latter left for vanavas, helped him govern the kingdom and are now to be added to school cirriculum. Same holds for the bhagavad gita and the mahabharat, but the vedas are chants which are firstly impossible to translate and then they aren’t enticing to keep the reader engrossed.
However you make a valid point of not having a book, there seems to be some action in that direction as well, see link
Quoting Shodan:
ROFL! I tell you, everything came from India! Even the Invisible Pink Unicorn came from India!
The project involves dredging out a channel through adams bridge. The fun part is that dredging has already begun and the strong sediment layer has damaged two dredgers. The TN govt plans to import one now.
Call it divine intervention, or mother nature’s wrath. This has bought the other parties, time to fire their salvos.
Why not high explosive demolition charges like the ones used in quarrying rock? This is just underwater rock right? Given the shallowness, I don’t see a major problem in placing the charges. Not a technical problem anyway.
“atheism is an acceptable position within the hindu tradition.” exactly ! & that is not the case with any other ‘way of life’.
Ok, leave alone Karuna, how did the ASI officials managed to put in a reference to Ramas non existence, into the report that could have been simply that it is a natural formation ! Is this a way of congress reminding leftists that if elections are held now, there is a chance for the ‘communal’ forces to come into power ? a li’l conspiracy theorish perhaps ?
pingpong:
Totally agree with you. However, there is a side benefit to this controversy. I dont personally like Karunanidhi. I agree with freedom of speech etc and dont mind what he says about Rama, but if this ends with the fall of Karunanithi’s upcoming evil dynasty, then I’m all for it. People shouldn’t mistake Karunanidhi’s actions as bravery. He sits in his throne and shoots his mouth off when he should shut up but remains silent at countless other injustices.
Anna:
Most hindus are half-assed. That pisses off the hindu fanatics more than muslims or christians. There are too many contradictions within hinduism for someone to be a true believer without being a nutter. I’m proud to be half-assed-hindu(Today’s WORD).
Is it true what Karunanidhi says? Does the Ramayana refer to Ram as being a drunk? Does anyone know?
If he’s right, then why blast the guy for pointing it out, if he’s wrong then someone should slap him with the truth! I haven’t seen any comments or articles (may have missed them) yet that answer this question.
exactly ! & that is not the case with any other ‘way of life’.
that’s false. reconstructionist jews are generally not theistic. additionally, confucianism has a long streak of anti-supernaturalism which dates back to xunzi (i’m excluding jainism & buddhism since they are indian derived traditions). of course, i’m sure there are non-supernaturalist confucians who would make the case for the the uniqueness of their tradition without knowing that hinduism has its own cognates, people are mostly familiar with what is culturally near. so just a warning to be careful about generalization (i accept that generalization is necessary and essential in communication!).
India and Srilanka share the adams bridge as their territorial cross. Now India has to dig out a channel and then dump all that sediment in Indian territorial waters only. The dredging will kill the coral reef and the rare species found there, the dumping will ruin the fishing and 700 families will be stripped of their livelihood….
There are too many contradictions within hinduism for someone to be a true believer without being a nutter
how many contradictions are necessary before someone has to be half-assed to be intellectual honest? because of the range of hindu beliefs i can accept that hinduism has more contradiction than christianity. but quantitatively does it matter that there are 1,000 vs. 500 contradictions? 10,000 vs. 100 contradictions? a cursory reading of christian scripture and theology manifests plenty of contradiction (which is why the church fathers were generally not biblical literalists, they accepted the likelihood of allegory and metaphor so as to preserve inerrancy). i think that the difference isn’t the number of contradictions, but the acceptance that contradiction and disagreement is normal. in contrast, many christians and muslims contend that difference is unacceptable because there is One True Way, so despite the contradiction and wide differences of opinion within the religion many of the various camps do not accept that the others as as christian or muslim. some hindus are like this as well, but it seems quantitatively less prominent within the religion.
that’s false. reconstructionist jews are generally not theistic. additionally, confucianism has a long streak of anti-supernaturalism which dates back to xunzi (i’m excluding jainism & buddhism since they are indian derived traditions). of course, i’m sure there are non-supernaturalist confucians who would make the case for the the uniqueness of their tradition without knowing that hinduism has its own cognates, people are mostly familiar with what is culturally near. so just a warning to be careful about generalization (i accept that generalization is necessary and essential in communication!).
Since you are an open carvaka, I suggest you formally declare allegiance to hinduism, since it was the way of your ancestors…Bangladesh is a very recent construction 🙂 BTW what would you do if your child wanted to become a Muslim? Would you be okay with that?
Thank you for answering one of my questions in #60. If the canal project does go through, is there some way of not damaging the coral reef? For instance, if a ship passing through the channel washes its tanks and dumps the effluent at sea, can the current carry the effluent away from the coral reef? (Just asking – a channel project won’t automatically wipe out all marine life, but the risk must be carefully analyzed before deciding whether to go ahead or not).
Since you are an open carvaka, I suggest you formally declare allegiance to hinduism, since it was the way of your ancestors…Bangladesh is a very recent construction 🙂
i have no great issues with hindus “claiming” me if they choose so long as they leave me and my beef burger in peace.
BTW what would you do if your child wanted to become a Muslim? Would you be okay with that?
the short answer is no, I WOULD NOT BE OK (and neither would my fiance). the main issue general is not religion, but supernaturalism, btw (though i find islam to be the most abhorrent of religions). luckily myself and my fiance are both rather “dead to the voice of god,” so the likelihood that our offspring would be like us is high (i’ve looked a bit into the behavior genetics of this).
since it was the way of your ancestors
btw, my paternal grandmother was born a hindu (though her family converted when she was 1 or 2 years old). so they aren’t just distant ancestors.
i wouldn’t bother analyzing anything karunanidhi says. this guy names his son stalin, for rama’s sake.
The waters are very shallow and only 10mts deep. Dredging will disturb the balance, increasing temperature, stronger currents will enter the region and this increase in water levels will submerge parts of both india and SL…. Below is what I could find online….
Though there has been a demand from various quarters for the implementation of the project, there is also opposition to it from environmentalists. They point out that the dredging of the Palk Strait and the Gulf of Mannar, by modifying habitats, could affect the ecology of the zone by changing currents. This could:
They also point out that dredging the canal would stir up sediment the dust and toxins that lie beneath the sea bed, smothering corals and affecting marine life. The emptying of bilge water from ships travelling through the hitherto impassable areas could diperse invasive species through the ecosystems of the area.
These effects could endanger precious marine species and wealth. The Gulf of Mannar has 3,600 species of plants and animals and is India’s biologically richest coastal region. Mammal species which abound in the area are sperm whales, dolphins and dugongs. The Gulf of Mannar is especially known for its corals: the portion in Indian territorial waters has 117 species of corals, belonging to 37 genera. Associated with these ecosystems are many varieties of fish and crustaceans. Marine life on the Sri Lankan side, which is better protected, is even richer. The Bar Reef off the Kalpitiya peninsular alone has 156 species of coral and 283 of fish; there are two other coral reef systems around Mannar and Jaffna. There are extensive banks of oysters, as well as Indian Chank and Sea Cucumbers, especially in the seas adjacent to Mannar. The pearl fisheries south of Mannar, which inspired Georges Bizet’s opera Les Pêcheurs de Perles, have not been productive for many years, indicating the fragility of these ecosystems in the face of overfishing and of relatively minor changes in the habitat.
Despite these concerns, official environmental clearance has been given for the project. The contention that the Sethusamudram Canal will cut through coral reefs and disturb the ecology has been dismissed as a mistaken fear.
The Indian government has conducted various environmental studies which has concluded that such issues are overblown and not based on science. However, skeptics have noted that environmentalist objections remain, including:
Is it just my relatives and family friends, or do more recent immigrant families of Indian Hindus seem more reluctant to eat beef compared to those of us whose parents came here in the 60s or 70s. Whenver I have BBQs , I notice this.
People who follow DMK , will not be surprised by his remarks but personally hearing such things about lord Rama hurts me.
The tamil rationalist leader EV Ramasami Naicker also known as Periyar is the father of the atheist rationalist movement called the Dravidian movement. This forms the guiding ideology of the DMK and to a lesser extent the AIADMK (the AIADMK is not atheist). He had his positives, but he also broke several idols and garlanded statues of Ram with slippers. MK comes from this school, so I guess calling Ram a drunkard ( in comparison garlanding Ram statues with slippers ) doesn’t shock me , but ( as stated earlier) hurts me.
On a side note , if you want a filmy version of how DMK was born and split , you have to check out the tamizh movie IRUVAR by Mani Ratnam. Of course , you will get a celebrated , glamorized and non controversial version of what really happened in the state , but movie has it own merits apart from Rahman and being TMBWITW first movie ! Aish plays Jayalaitha , Mohan Lal MGR and Prakash Raj – MK.
This is MK in the movie !
Due to the absence of coverage in the mainstream english media (CNN-IBN is running yet another headline about who is greater King Khan or Big Bee). Here is a compilation from the vernacular print media about the recent events in the state of Tamilnadu. This time it has nothing to do with Dalits like in Maharashtra. You can see the difference between violence born of oppression and that born of hatred.
I wonder how much all this hot air in India has contributed to increase in global warming by now. 🙂
More dosa pr0n, please. Maybe throw in some uttappam to make it extra kinky.
This subject is incendiary and the Congress party messed up big time in its initial response to the dredging of the straits. The archaeological institute bungled by using too much legalese in its response. To paraphrase, “although the importance of the Ramayana can not be discounted, there is no historical evidence of the same”. This was seized upon by the nationalist parties and twisted into an inflammatory statement to revive their flagging fortunes. Again, to paraphrase, “when there is no Rama, there can be no Rama bridge”. It led to riots and people died in parts of UP and Haryana. I consider this gross political incompetence on part of the Congress party to have not seen it coming and to not have used better judgement when releasing the official statement. Karunanidhi is using this to further his own credentials within his political base.
I swear, one month in India is like a decade anywhere else in the world. It’s sort of like the Brahmic timeframe.
“@Shoan 27 “So Rama did not exist but somehow managed to down a few drinks regularly? That’s some next level, 5th dimension talk Kalaingar.”
Maybe he wants to say that the fictional novel ramayana, written by the best selling author valmiki had a protagonist named rama who was fond of soma ras. Thats an old edition , heres the new one.”
so, karunanidhi wants to have his cake and eat it too. makes as much sense as the asi saying the ramayana cannot be used to prove the existence of Rama. of course it can’t. neither can any religious book/epic. but it cannot be used to prove that no such figure existed either.
i thought the nda govt. said dredging was ok if the bridge could be saved? (on headlines today they made it seem that the bjp and vhp are not exactly on the same page when it comes to the project.)
as for the environmental impact, which should be the greatest consideration in whether the dredging should go ahead or not, sometimes religion serves to protect the environment, even if for religious reasons – such as india’s sacred groves which, by virtue of religious taboos, help to preserve some of the world’s rarest plants and animals. when the religious taboo goes or changes in character, as has been shown in some part of india’s northeast and in the western ghats, the environment suffers.
Since this thread is at least partly about Karunanidhi’s person and personality – I’ve always been curious why he (and MGR before him) always wear dark glasses all the time, including indoors. It’s one of the things about him that irritates me – irrationally, of course :)Anybody care to share some wisdom in the matter?
What happened?