But what will the community think?!

padma and russell simmons.JPG

Ah, Padma.

Padma, Padma, Padma.

Potentially Mallu (I thought you were TamBrahm!) beauty, accomplished author and Television ish-tar, you speak so uniquely and that takes some talent. What sort of talent, I haven’t a clue, but I’ll credit you anyway, because I’m fond of you like that.

A few years ago, you made every Desi man’s heart beat a little bit faster, from the joy of the improbable occurring; if a supermodel would marry an award-winning, uber-protective, “distinguished”-looking author, then everyone had hope (as long as they did something extraordinary. Or had a looooot of paisa). It was the ultimate Revenge fantasy and that’s exactly what it was, because the dream, it died. You and the man who defended your intellect, who insisted that you were being shortchanged by the focus on your outsides, you are…kaput.

So, what to do, except to follow the well-established mores of our culture. You don’t recall? I am happy to remind. Now comes the time when you cast your eyes downwards, marinate in the somber reality of failure and wait an appropriate time before you are back on the scene, the ultimate “Innocent Divorcee, no issue”. It is imperative that you be seen alone, that you not be photographed with strange men touching you, because if a potential groom from Madras or Bangalore sees that, chee, vat he vill think?

So it is paining me, Padma-akka (chechi?!) to see you emulate the controversial example of that Sarita Denzel Masala of Mississippi, especially since you chose to do that in the front row of the Marc Jacobs show, where everyone could see you! Aiyo! What’s the one thing your Amma told you, edi?

“Don’ bring home a Kala or Muslim.”

Stop lying, you aren’t special, she totally said that. [Aside: whenever I hear that oft-repeated phrase, I wonder what would happen if one chose to bring home a KALA MUSLIM, but I digress]. I’m well aware that all of our parents ignorantly shouted this rather nonsensical order at us, in an attempt to be helpful (though I’m sure for our Muslim friends it was “Don bring home a Kala or a Hindu!”, since the hate goes both vays).

So, what are you doing? Yes, this Russell, he is healthy, wealthy, wise. He does yoga. He is a vegan (unlike you! Naughty, naughty omnivore!) and he seems kind. BUT. He has two children! And his ex-wife will smear Vaseline on her face, take her bamboo earrings (at least two pair) off, hand them to her assistant and then CUT YOUR ASS UP. Have you not seen Life in the Fab Lane, starring Kimora Lee Simmons? Put down the bong and pay attention: you should be terrified!

Worst of all, when I was watching the Today show this morning, I saw your “friend” Russell. He was wearing his “uniform” of baseball cap, sweater, shirt, jeans, sneakers. Ek tiny problem: there was an OM symbol on his jeans pocket. Now I am both Christian and a quondam lover of status denim (Diesel, Blue Cult, James et al), so I am just slightly, less offended than half of those who are sure to comment AND I get that the kundi pockets must have some elaborate design on them, to show people you have rs.5500+ to burn on a pair of pants which was once worn by the working class…to WORK, but I was taken aback when I saw that, much as I was when I viewed this commercial. Someone who is so entranced with our culture should know better than to put a sacred image on a back pocket!

Om on pocket? Home with two kids, and a fiercely mean ex-? Far too friendly hand on your leg? What are you thinking? Who will want you, if you continue with such shenanigans? They will burn you in effigy, I tell you. Or worse. They will call for strikes. The sweatshops in Bangladesh will stop stitching Phat Farm and Baby Phat crap! There will be chaos!

I only say all of this to be nice. I am concerned for you! If you ask me, you should try to be more homely and make sure you fast on Fridays for a good husband; perhaps your kinda-boring cooking show can tape on other days? Vatewer. I care, so I advise. I am like this only. You should be, too. Hangari!

Photo via NYT. A big, juicy “thank you” to Rumor Monger, for the tip. 🙂

415 thoughts on “But what will the community think?!

  1. Can anyone think of a desi dude (famous or otherwise) who dated/is dating a black girl? Seems to me that desi girls “go black” in higher numbers. Why?

  2. Don’ bring home a Kala… does “Kala” here apply to generic dark-skinned people of any race or does it specifically apply to people of African origin?

    this.

  3. skep, ben kingsley’s brazilian wife seems to have some african admixture looking at her (most brazilian “whites” do actually).

  4. Some more inter-religious pairings (some married, some not) connected to Bollywood (and to cricket too)

    Sharmilla Tagore and Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi Sangeeta Biljani and Mohammed Azaruddin Shekhar Kapoor – Shahbana Azmi (They never married) Hirtik Roshan – Suzanne Khan Nagma – Sourav Gangouly Praveen Babi – Amitabh Bachachan (A very strong rumor) Praveen Babi – Mahesh Bhatt Aishwaryia Rai – Salman Khan

    It is a never ending list………

  5. I have NOT been given this advice (yet?), and I’d also like to know if this is advice given only to daughters or to everyone.

    Oh, its given to everyone. I got it too. My brother used to promise our parents a bride who was “a divorced muslim black girl with two kids”, if they didn’t stop bothering him about getting married.

  6. More trivia: Evidently, Mani Ratnam’s Bombay was the first time a mainstream Hindi film portrayed a Hindu Muslim couple – India Today did an article on the “novelty ” of it …

    Runa, how about Mughal-e-Azam (Akbar and Rani Jodhabai)? 😉

  7. “Indian men usually have arranged marriages. Don’t bother.”

    I followed your link…and found an unbelievable amount of suck. Can’t believe the stuff people think.

  8. Runa, how about Mughal-e-Azam (Akbar and Rani Jodhabai)? 😉

    Runa,

    A lot of mughal period movies (they were really Indian film industry staple diet in 1950s) showed Hindu-Muslim pairings, since quite a few Mughal rulers married Rajput princesses in real life.

    It is true, that Mani Ratnam’s Bombay was more realistic, and present-day story of inter-religious pairing. Then you have Mr. and Mrs. Iyer by Aparna Sen.

  9. Razib, thanks for that link. So, my hypothesis was pretty wrong.

    Also interesting, desis are more likely to marry black than any other asian ethnicity included in that study. (except for philipino men)

  10. Also interesting, desis are more likely to marry black than any other asian ethnicity included in that study. (except for philipino men)

    well, the difference is minimal. i don’t know what the N’s were so 1.7 vs. 2.5 might not mean much. second, the marriage patterns of browns are very different from other asians; not the sex balance in outmarriage.

  11. for 1.5 & 2nd gen american asian indians percentage of asian indians who have black husbands: 1.7 percentage of asian indians who have black wives: 2.5

    Razib, I followed that link, and I think based on the accompanying text that the numbers should be flipped around. The text for instance says “Korean women are most likely to have a white spouse…nearly 50%” while the table lists “48%”. The table terminology was confusing at first .

    There were some things further down that made interesting reading. In particular, black males who have Asian spouses are most likely to have an Indian spouse and least likely to have a Korean spouse. Indian males were LEAST LIKELY to be the spouses of Whites, Latinos and Other Asians.

    (These figures are only for US-raised Asians).

  12. “Indian men usually have arranged marriages. Don’t bother.”

    “But, I will say one positve thing about indian men.. They have PHD’s in the science of passion..” (p. 17) LOL. Perhaps she is refering to a Jatt/Punjabi bloke? 😉

    If you play your cards right (with a Jatt bloke), you will never go back to ____ blokes. 😉

  13. Padma is hot, but it’s that model kind of heat that looks good but feels cold. Also she sounds like she’s smokin the doobie all the time. Has anyone actually followed her recipes?

    If I’m looking for food porn, my eyes have a hard time wandering further than Nigella.

  14. Razib, I followed that link, and I think based on the accompanying text that the numbers should be flipped around. The text for instance says “Korean women are most likely to have a white spouse…nearly 50%” while the table lists “48%”. The table terminology was confusing at first .

    my bad, invert it!

  15. If I’m looking for food porn, my eyes have a hard time wandering further than Nigella.

    Heresy! How can you say such things on SM?! Have you read Anna’s descriptions of an SM meetup? 😛

  16. In particular, black males who have Asian spouses are most likely to have an Indian spouse and least likely to have a Korean spouse. Indian males were LEAST LIKELY to be the spouses of Whites, Latinos and Other Asians.

    the last is key, look at the us-born or raised…and the % of the ‘other asians’ is rather high for the other groups vis-a-vis indians.

  17. the last is key, look at the us-born or raised…and the % of the ‘other asians’ is rather high for the other groups vis-a-vis indians.

    That is true. I now think I may have screwed up the second paragraph of my comment #114 (flip husbands and wives to get the correct picture). My apologies.

    Would you know where I could find a complete matrix of who has been marrying whom in the US?

  18. Runa, how about Mughal-e-Azam (Akbar and Rani Jodhabai)? 😉
    It is true, that Mani Ratnam’s Bombay was more realistic, and present-day story of inter-religious pairing

    Yes, you are both right.

    I remember being amazed when Bombay came out and that article came out in India Today that Mani ‘s movie was literally the first time that the lead pair in a mainstream movie were Hindu Muslim.My amazement was that it took so long considering that I myself know plenty of Hindu Muslim couples Of course, after that the “taboo” was lifted and many movies now show Hindu Muslim couples….

  19. Heresy! How can you say such things on SM?! Have you *read* Anna’s descriptions of an SM meetup? 😛

    I have no recollection at this moment of something written in regards to food porn at a previous meet-up. The one I attended the topic of food porn didn’t come up while I was there.

    However, I will admit to the guilty pleasure that is Nigella.

    I also like milk chocolate sometimes of dark Belgium chocolate. Just yesterday I stopped at the store just to get myself a big Hersey’s chocolate bar. Ahh, just like it says, Hershey’s happiness. =)

    Of course, my standard assortment of chocolates for the ladies comes from my favorite place in VA, Artisan Confections.

    Obviously, sweets are on my mind at the moment.

  20. I have no recollection at this moment of something written in regards to food porn at a previous meet-up.

    Actually, this was the Meetup Writeup I had in mind, especially that photo of the luscious beauty and the effect it had on the first several commenters. A very delectable photograph, showing the juicy parts glistening softly in the light, just begging to be eaten.

    But for interracial food porn, there should be a perfect photograph of a paneer dosa with ketchup.

  21. Well, I’m sure few black women would want to be involved with Indian men regardless of the potential for a good relationship. What kind of psycho wants to have anything to do with a culture that hates their skin color (no apologists please LOL)! I’m a black woman and it’s never gonna happen. The Indian Bollywood thing/the casual racial slurs/casual colorism disgusts me overall, I would be flipping out on the guy 24/7 for not condemning every single slight I heard which would obviously result in a horrendous relationship!! I date white guys, because believe it or not, racist though their reputation is, they love dark skin on average more than any other race of men, of course not all of them are like that, but a lot of them are, especially Europeans. Also, the average non-racist white guy honestly has no skin color preference; the same cannot be said of other races of men (the non-racists that is).

    Indians make no sense to me with their racism towards African Americans – many AAs can easily pass for Indian, if not white. From Wesley Snipes to Wentworth Miller, AAs can look like anything, and are often anti-racists (what with being labeled black and everything that comes with it), so some random Indian with tanned skin and East Indian features would easily be at loggerheads with a blue-eyed/European looking Wentworth Miller who is extremely sensitive to racism.

  22. Getting my popcorn, this is gonna be good…

    ooooh. this thread’s getting even better. getting my bourban.

  23. What kind of psycho wants to have anything to do with a culture that hates their skin color (no apologists please LOL)!

    imnotbeingfunnybut,

    I respect your experience. However, as a person of color, I am sure you yourself have heard unfair generalizations about AA culture and it must have hurt.How come you are making the same generalizations about another culture?

    Indians make no sense to me with their racism towards African Americans

    Racism of any kind: Indians towards AA ,AA towards Indian, Indians towards whites, Whites towards Indians etc etc – none of it makes any sense to me .Yet there are examples of each – so should I just give up on the human race?

  24. RE: indian guy/black woman pairings

    I’ve found that the Indo-Caribbean community is more ok with kids dating black people, and I’ve seen a few examples of brown guys and black girls going out (but more the other way around). I know one Guyanese girl whose father is Indian and whose mother is black and who participates in lots of different brown cultural stuff… and we all accept her.

    I think that American media in general doesn’t depict black women in a favorable (meaning attractive) way, leading to black men dating out their race more often than black women (regardless of who the other half of the interracial pairing is), which might be why we all perceive more indian girl-black guy couples than black girl-indian guy couples. e.g. Norbit, Big Momma’s House, fucking Tyler Perry (ok he’s not as bad, but I just don’t like him very much)… and then there’s the bizarre phenomenon of Asian women being represented in larger numbers in mainstream porn than black women, even though there are so many more black women in the country (of course there is a market for the ‘ebony’ lovers, but I’m talking mainstream here).

    imnotbeingfunnybut, i’m sorry you’ve had such a bad experience with the indian community that you’ve completely ruled out dating indian guys. but just so you know, there are lots of great indian guys out there who don’t give a $hit about your race (the only thing they’ll care about as far as your looks go is that you’re hot). (my brother is one of them)

    also, nitpick.. but wentworth miller is extremely mixed. most people who don’t see people of different races on a daily basis probably wouldn’t even guess that he’s anything but white. i think he himself would object to being completely ‘claimed’ by the black community.

  25. The Indian Bollywood thing/the casual racial slurs/casual colorism disgusts me overall, I would be flipping out on the guy 24/7 for not condemning every single slight I heard which would obviously result in a horrendous relationship!!

    you sound so sweet and non-judgmental. thank goodness the “aa rap thing” does not have any casual slurs or anything else that’s disgusting. otherwise, i’d never be able to be with a black woman, be it venus williams or alicia keys.

  26. I think that American media in general doesn’t depict black women in a favorable (meaning attractive) way, leading to black men dating out their race more often than black women

    in the USA media might be a factor, but i think there’s a generalized contempt for the kala kuffar with juju-only culture. that is, brown people perceive black africans to be without any native high cultural product (while in places like trinidad and guyana the blacks view indians as heathens for their non-christianity). i recal reading once that in the early 1960s the local black muslims in zanzibar rebelled against their omani arab rulers. for several days militiamen raped the daughters of the arab and indian population. the point was that there was no argument that blacks were not good enough for their daughters anymore and it established who was now in charge.

    imnotbeingfunnybut’s were strong and with little nuance, but reading SM you get a sense that black-indian couples have it harder. i recall seeing recently one poster talking about how her mother had disowned her for having become engaged to a black man. but her mother herself had married a white man and been disowned!

    color-consciousness is pretty universal among people of color. look at mexican television, or read up on color issues in brazil, or the idealization of mestizo beauty in the phillipines. and it is also exists in spades in the black community. remember “middle class brown” muhammad ali declaring dark skinned joe fraser a gorilla? that being said, american blacks are at one extreme in disavowing the elite promotion of these biases, even if they still play out in day to day life and personal choices (e.g., the pairing up of successful dark skinned men with light skinned black women). i think south asian culture should be subject to some critique until a more thorough “black is beautiful” movement does emerge which at least serves as a nominal counterpoint to beauty ideals which are out of the reach of 90% of indian women (bipasha basu is the dark skinned woman in bollywood, but she seems a bit lighter than the average brown if you ask me). [i know about the dravidian movement, but i don’t think it has affected beauty ideals as much as it might have]

  27. ImNotBeingFunny, for someone who lectures Indians on a color complex, would you care to lecture AA women on all the straighteners , weaves and extensions when they can be black and proud. What is wrong with those 70s Afros? And I did watch School Daze. Maybe I should generalize the entire race of light skin vs dark skin AA differences based on that movie. No race is perfect. Don’t come in lecturing us if you are really an AA woman and not someone else pretending to be one.

  28. i think south asian culture should be subject to some critique until a more thorough “black is beautiful” movement does emerge which at least serves as a nominal counterpoint to beauty ideals which are out of the reach of 90% of indian women (bipasha basu is the dark skinned woman in bollywood, but she seems a bit lighter than the average brown if you ask me). [i know about the dravidian movement, but i don’t think it has affected beauty ideals as much as it might have]

    i agree, but i doubt that the phrasing will ever come under the term ‘black is beautiful’ (if in english). maybe ‘dark is beautiful,’ but i don’t think even the darkest indians think of themselves as ‘black.’ i’m ok with that actually, because i don’t think desis (IN south asia) think of light-skinned desis as ‘white,’ they think of them as ‘light,’ so i think it would make sense for people to consider ‘dark’ beautiful as well. (then again, in my experience, light skin has only been used as an unquestioned sign of beauty… no one i know in real life has ever actually tried to ‘distinguish’ themselves from the rest of the brown population by virtue of their light skin, somehow making them whiter and therefore better than the rest of us) and yeah, bipasha basu… if that’s the darkest beauty that bollywood can offer, they really need to try harder.

    the reason i brought up the depiction of black women in american media is that i’ve heard quite a few white guys say something along the lines of, ‘oh i can see myself dating and bringing home an asian girl, but not a black girl.’ eh, i think there’s something there.

  29. me: hand them to her assistant and then CUT YOUR ASS UP. Jeet: anna, 90s called they want their slang back…sorry couldnt help it. Even i dont know whats the equivalent of that in today’s time, gotta hit the streets! I beg to be differing. I’ve totally heard that or variations thereof…”BITCH! I. WILL. CUT. YOU.” etc ad slanginum. 😉 Besides, think of how old both of these vomen are…and then it seems that is current enough. Everyone over 30 dwells in the past anyway, since hiphop and everything else musical was better 15 years ago. 😀

    I can vouch for ANNA on this. to get down with today’s youth, all you really need to know are: 1) “cut a bitch” and 2) “hot ass mess”

  30. Razib, thanks for the link in #126! I’m collating more data from Asian-Nation.org to see cross-group marriage statistics. Seems to indicate slow but steady avialification (not unexpected).

  31. i agree, but i doubt that the phrasing will ever come under the term ‘black is beautiful’ (if in english). maybe ‘dark is beautiful,’ but i don’t think even the darkest indians think of themselves as ‘black.’

    granted, the terminology has to be different. my main point is that despite the bias and prejudice which continues to exist, and which will continue to exist, there needs to be a little more consciousness raising about the traits which we value in other people and what we should strive for. most people would rather have their children be attractive, but i think it would be perceived to be graceless point out the ugliness of one particular child. and yet darker skinned members of south asian families are quite often reminded of their darkness with just taht tone.

    in any case, back on topic (sort of), it is refreshing that padma lakshmi is a conventionally colored south asian and smokin’ to boot. i would say parminder nagra also falls into that category. interestingly they’ve made their careers in the western media.

  32. hotda*n … i google imaged padma lakshmi and apparently she lost her bride value to the aunties LONG ago though, since she’s posed nude. i would think that’s worse in their eyes than getting felt up by russell simmons

  33. but i doubt that the phrasing will ever come under the term ‘black is beautiful’ (if in english). maybe ‘dark is beautiful,

    Wheatish is Wonderful

  34. muhammad ali declaring dark skinned joe fraser a gorilla?

    even the NOI got in the act. elijah muhammed picked Malcolm X as his spokesman in part b/c of his skin colour.

  35. I can vouch for ANNA on this. to get down with today’s youth, all you really need to know are: 1) “cut a bitch” and 2) “hot ass mess”

    😀

    Thanks, Nala!

  36. This Russel guy is a total yoga nut. He has all these Indian artifacts in his house and is always talking about hinduism and yoga, but then again I would be looking for a way to clear my head to if I sold records to kids telling them how they should never report crimes and should sell drugs and kill in order to get some ass. Basically he sells poison to young black minds.

    Totally agree. I saw this photo earlier today and I thought, “Oh no, Padma! Not Russell!” I’d guess that its just a photo op; Russell is probably peeved that Kimora is dating Djimon Hounsou, a tall, handsome and elegant guy. A suggestive photo with beautiful Padma is sure to raise Kimora’s ire.

    also, nitpick.. but wentworth miller is extremely mixed. most people who don’t see people of different races on a daily basis probably wouldn’t even guess that he’s anything but white. i think he himself would object to being completely ‘claimed’ by the black community.

    Maybe Wentworth Miller would object, but the president of The City College of New York does not.

    I’ve found that the Indo-Caribbean community is more ok with kids dating black people, and I’ve seen a few examples of brown guys and black girls going out (but more the other way around). I know one Guyanese girl whose father is Indian and whose mother is black and who participates in lots of different brown cultural stuff… and we all accept her.

    Yes, It does happen more often in the Caribbean. Shurwayne Winchester had a Soca-Chutney hit with “Don’t Stop”, a song about his East Indian beauty. And Denise Belfon sang I’m looking for an “Indian Man”, to which Remo Fernandes responded “I’m your Indian man from India”. But I’d dare say that Indo-Caribbeans are more likely to approve of the relationship if the person is of Caribbean descent.

  37. Can anyone think of a desi dude (famous or otherwise) who dated/is dating a black girl?

    Well, I guess I can fall into the “otherwise” category. In the late 90’s, and a few years into the millenium, I dated a black woman I met while working in Evanston. Same office building, but different companies. She was the kind of woman that would normally be way out of my league in the looks dept, but since I figured a rejection from an attractive woman would be no different than from a plain Jane, why not give it a shot? She caught me off guard with her acceptance. When my co-workers (all white) found out, their response was, “Damn! How’d you do that?”

  38. i googled derek jeter bollywood actress to find out the name but all i got was some chik name jessica beil. doesn’t look desi. hot though.

    btw, did you people know that blonde woman from desperate houswives is half punjabi. you can tell by the eyes.

  39. Can anyone think of a desi dude (famous or otherwise) who dated/is dating a black girl?

    Leander Paes dated a black Canadian lass for several years. Did raise a few eyebrows back in Desh. Boy, has he been around the block. Leander is famous coz he was one of the few sporting stars in a non-cricket area. He also won an individual bronze medallist at the Atlanta Olympics.