Mmmm, snark:
Leger poll shows Sikhs are the least liked religion in Canada (liked by only 53% of Canadians). Jews are the most liked minority religion (78%), Muslims at 61%. No data on Christians, or on people who commission really stupid polls. [Ikram]
But what about Jewish Sikhs? Feh. Fresh from the News Tab, some meshugge story in the Montreal Gazette which deserves Ikram’s (and perhaps your) scorn; Canadians apparently respect Sikhs less than members of other religions, and the amount of contact a Canadian has with a person influences their perception of them. Shocking, but true.
Asked whether they had a favourable opinion of each group, the 1,500 people surveyed by Léger Marketing across Canada said they hold Jews in the highest esteem (78 per cent), Muslims considerably lower (61 per cent) and Sikhs least of all (53 per cent).
And in each case, how much a person approves of one of the minority religions depends on how much contact he or she has had with them. The more contact, the higher the esteem, the poll found.
Forty-five per cent of Canadians are in contact with Jews often or occasionally, according to the poll. Only 37 per cent are in touch with Muslims, and only 21 per cent with Sikhs.
One thing to keep in mind– there are fewer Jewish people than Muslims, in Canada (pronounced Kuh-NAH-da, natch).
According to the 2001 federal census (religion data from the 2006 census are not yet available), there are 330,000 Jews in Canada and 580,000 Muslims. Sikhs number 278,000.
Y’all need to hold some Bhangra Blowout-esque event in Quebec. 😉
Sikhs are best-known in B.C. (44 per cent), Alberta (30 per cent) and Ontario (25 per cent); they’re virtually unknown in Quebec (four per cent, lowest in the country).
But if it is any consolation, people in Quebec also had the least favorable views on Jews. Ha! I rhymed.
Only 69 per cent of Quebecers have a favourable opinion of Jews – the lowest level in Canada. By contrast, Jews are held in highest esteem in the Maritimes (85 per cent), the Prairies (84 per cent) and Ontario (80 per cent).
Familiarity breeds respect, in British Columbia:
Muslims fare best in Ontario and the Maritimes (about 66 per cent) and worst in Quebec (52 per cent). Sikhs are best-regarded in B.C. (66 per cent), Ontario (59 per cent) and Alberta (51 per cent).
Behold, the confusion:
About one in 10 people polled refused to answer the question or simply didn’t know what they thought, except regarding Sikhs. For Sikhs, a higher percentage – one in four – refused or didn’t answer, perhaps reflecting lack of knowledge of Sikhs (except in B.C., where 14 per cent declined to answer or had no opinion).
And now, for you freaks who like statistics and methods and other things which have given me hives, since grad school:
Conducted for the Montreal-based Association for Canadian Studies, the telephone poll was done over seven days from Aug. 22 to 28. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 per cent, 19 times out of 20.
The only useful thought I have regarding this survey is that we create understanding when we interact with others, as opposed to segregating ourselves; we need to educate our friends, coworkers and classmates, when it is feasible and comfortable to do so. The useless thought? One day, all white people should know as much about India as Gwen Stefani does…dating and singing songs about how a cute brown boy broke their heart…optional. 😉
i’ve been away from my computer for the last few days – and was hoping to make inane comments about insubtantive things (e.g. rajini fair and loverly) but that can only be done where comments are not required to be read either beforehand or in depth.
ANNA’s good like that 🙂 and i just got yelled at by my mother for a similar sibling issue (on my 29th birthday, no less) – i don’t think such things ever change, and that’s kind of nice 🙂
no comment on the racism, but as far as rents go, my place in london (even with the current exchange rate) was much cheaper and ten times nicer than where i am living now, outside nyc.
Amitabh, I believe it 🙂 Ugh, I also had to take the uground –> bus [I was coming from Tottenham Hale]
ak, it probably helped that I was not there for very long [I feel like the longer you live in a place, the more you learn about its “true personality.”]
Puli, it’s funny because when I wrote that I distinctly thought to myself “but not bankers/business-types.” I think I got free license because I was there as a lefty activist / academic type, and admittedly not for very long.
yes, sometimes you have to face that fact that when we own things (or are people) that others would covet, there is a chance the someday someone mighttry to take it (or him/her). It can seem irrational, but self-preservation seems to be a very basic instinct. I was raised in a fairly anti-violence-and-violent-items environment (considering mumsie saw the ’83 shenanigans) but i did see this and consider the yawning chasm that a .410 shotgun shell, fired from an effectively legal sawed-off shotgun, would open up in a violent intruder.
it aint the rent im talking about. a lot of it is everything else…
what does puliogre mean?……….i have no clue what these debates are about……bottom line, canada blows……it is freezing, the people are lame, it is practically communist, the chicks are fat and white…..ottawa, canada = 1950’s mississippi….toronto and vancouver may be a bit different……end of story
South Indian dish made from rice…yeah boyeeeeeeee!!! Bring it!!
tamarind rice, or a snarky investment banker that spends more time posting comments on SM than investment banking.
I’m with Puli re:London–it’s no nyc–tho’ Amitabh is right that the desi food there rocks!
Anyone have interesting insights on the view of Punjabi’s in Delhi–I love Delhi, but it seems the “old school” Delhi-ites (which includes my parents, & both Muslims & Hindus) still have a bone to pick with the post-partition Punjabi influx, in spite of the obvious economic success of many of the latter.
IF you don’t want people to say America/India/Pakistan/Egypt blows, the people are lame, the chicks are… …how about we not do that to others.
even though i’m from the nyc area, i would choose london any day over nyc. it’s my incomplete love story 😉
I personally prefer a man who knows what he’s doing – so there – you’re theory has been squashed.
mr intern……….appreciate your committment to sm, but if anyone wants to say beverly hills, miami beach, manhattan, honolulu are dumps, go for it…………those that have been there/live there will be mildly amused……….i know canada, i lived there for 20 years. i speak from experience……….all canadians want to be americans; that is the canadian dream……..all canadians have a serious inferiority complex, which often manifests itself in the form of racism……..america has no such problems….there is racism but it is direct…..much easier to deal with….ie, it is just one on one combat as opposed to fighting an ingrained, institutionalized, emotionally needy structure. in america all you have to do is snuff out your enemy and you’re good……not to mention, rich people don;t give a rats ass about others, let alone rich others, as is the case with most sikhs in america. they have better things to spend their time on than slandering sikhs or minority groups.
Camille, I’m really glad you’re on this thread, and hope you’ll add more to what you’ve said. I was so hoping you’d come in, just when Amitabh actually wrote it that I felt he had channeled me! I’m just back from a workout myself, writing this to clarify what I meant earlier, just in case you misread or I mis-wrote. Though I hope you’ll still be with me 🙂
First of all, the earliest Sikhs who went to the UK in the early 1950s went as factory labor, in response to the post-WW-II labor shortages. And then some of them also became employed as janitors, bus-drivers, postmen, etc, other unionized occupations. These are some of the most honorable occupations imaginable, but still not ‘educated elites’. The educated elite came to the UK later, in the 1970s – the doctors, engineers, professors. But anyway, the first cohort of which I spoke, and the earliest cohort of Canadian Sikhs in the 1900-30s had relatively the same SES. They were drawn from the same filtered stock – ex-British Indian Army (post-WW-II in the UK), and in fact, some of the Sikhs who initially went to Britain later went to Canada. Also, some of the Canadian Sikhs went south to Washington, Oregon, California, and still do, while other Sikhs came up via Panama, Mexico, etc. Anyways.
The other point is that British Columbia itself was settled largely in the mid-and-late 1800s by people of British stock. In interesting ways, their society is ‘more British than the British’, preserving some elements of British culture from the late Victorian-Edwardian period wholesale, though that is an interesting but separate discussion.
So the host societies of BC and UK – and the immigrant Sikhs – are essentially the same people, arriving initially with the same kind of human capital, and differing only slightly in the timing – about 20-30 years. That so much sameness at both ends has had such dramatically different results is puzzling to me. As far as racism and otherization, they would face the same level thereof, brought about by similar cultural attitudes. Though the BC whites seem to have forgotten that the Sikhs who lived among them had served in the British armies with their fathers and grandfathers, with their turbans, and therefore may have otherized them some more. The British in Britain didn’t, but that may not have meant much on the ground.
But the fact that, as serena mentioned upthread, so much difference in SES etc now exists in the Sikh-Punjabi immigrant populations across the Washington-BC border, whereas the host societies are much more similar in their SES across that same border – raises yet another puzzle. This is amplified when one realizes that there is a lot of movement across that border, and many kinship ties as well. So anyway, that’s where I’m stumped.
Totally my bad. I just did my own pet peeve.
I may be biased by the fact that I seem to be much more “club-able” in nyc than in London. 😉
Funny how a survey about white people not liking Sikhs, turns into a royal rumble of Indians shaming Indians for making Canadians uncomfortable.
UMMMMMMM, I wonder how the British managed to turn Indian against Indian?
Maybe we can create some sort of “model minority” task force. When ever a Canadian displays some sort of annoyance with Indians, we can send some Indian armed with a black bored and chalk and amuse them with math problems and organic chemistry.
rob, I also love Delhi 😉 The old-school can kiss my grits; my fam was in Delhi before and after Partition, as were many Punjus (which makes sense given the shape/size and changing borders of pre-Brit Punjab). We [Punjus] are like bunnies — everywhere! That is what happens when you viciously oppress a people and drive them to flee refugee-style across the world (and subcontinent) =P
ak, me too. I love NYC, but I didn’t know I could love London even more, and I did. Of course, this Anglophilia is a slap in the face of my martyr-complex.
chachaji, thanks. 🙂 Hopefully this thread stays open — it is way past my bed time, and I am going to go zonk out. That said, I wonder if Canada had anything on par to the British labor unions + anti-racist movement? Any Canuckians know? I could expound on why I’m curious, but I’ll have to do that after I’ve slept 🙂
Hallo Fuerza Dulce, ju sound saxy! Vill ju allow Brown Daddy to defend his theory and enter Fuerza’s wurld? Fuerza Dulce’s contact address and mobile number vill be vary good! Thank you ji.
Off to study now…
OK, so i was visitng Vancover on a rainy day and was walking thru Stanley Park. Very quiet. Then suddenly, I was startled by a burst of Bhangra. Walked around a bush and saw a Sikh staffer mulching leaves and such, while his city truck blasted music. Very nice.
Next evening, I am sitting in a Red Robin in Burnaby. Big group of Punjabi men walk in. Waitress clears two tables, sets silver etc., asks repeatedly for a drinks order. No response. Cell phones are drawn,hoslstered, dialled, etc. More guys walk in. More chairs, no drink orders yet. Then, suddenly, everybody ups and leaves. WTF?
Amitabh,
You’re right about the demographic changes that Southall is experiencing. You could geek out and breakdown all the factors like a proper wonk…
or
…you could note that the tune “Southall wich nachdi” was written in the 80s (then later brought to album by Shava Shava) and “Soho Road” by Apna Sangeet was written in the 90s.
Southall will always be glorious (if not physically, certainly historically) but Birmingham is the don daddy now. West London is absorbing a new wave of immigrants- in the 60s & 70s, South Asians; today, Somalians and Poles.
As they say, easy bruv, bhangra still has a home, it’s just up the M6 innit.
chachaji:
Could it be that comparing BC Sikhs with American Sikhs writ large is a dubious task for finding out “what went wrong”? In my travels, there is no place like BC. True blue Indian thuggery is but a mild streak in any metropolis but in BC it’s much more in your face. If we consider BC to be an enclave of sorts then perhaps we should compare enclave with enclave, like BC with California’s Central Valley. The noted social problems are shared, in the same magnitude (minus the homicide rate), though not as public and not nearly as publicized because Latino’s receive most of the press.
Camille said it upthread that gangs keep the underground money moving which is true. Former BC bud trading transplants in the Valley say that, simply put, there is a boatload of money to be made in drugs in BC at every level. In California, the market is mature and tight; it’s harder to get in, you start at the bottom and weapons are in abundance so you can’t barter you’re way in. And its harder to make a long-term living because the DEA plugs the holes pretty quick on the boys occupying the lower hierarchy of the trade. In BC, it’s the opposite. The market is young, less developed, hence more dangerous and prone to temperamental inexperienced idiots shooting down fools that create problems for the higher ups. If you’re South or East Asian, the network is ripe and there’s less competition to make it big because most Asians have average to good opportunities because of their SES. The drug enforcement agencies in Canada can certainly do better, and they will, but most honest underground wonks know that the best combination of enforcement tactics is market maturation (let the big dealers have their share and they will see to it to keep the noise down) and making sure that the low-hanging traders continue to make chump change and eventually drop out of the trade. I’ve got a rolodex full of South and East Asians friends in the Bay who dropped out and are now in med school, accounting and software engineers. Fascinating stuff.
Great isights into the economics of the drug trade, NVM.
Yes and much thanks for keeping it on topic.
You whose comment was already deleted twice, stop leaving it. You were warned yesterday, that your comments were unacceptable. Nothing has changed in the past 12 hours.
I’m more or less FROM NYC and yet I love London even more! And it was hard for me too, to accept that I love England despite our (desi) history with that country (and the nagging feeling I have when I see the beautiful buildings that they were built with Indian wealth). But I’ve accepted it, and if I ever win the lottery, a London apartment will be one of my first purchases (hmm…maybe two apartments…one in Chelsea and one in Southall…)
London reminds me of New Delhi in some ways…it’s clear that both cities were built by the same (English)civilization.
Yeesh — what a crap thread. It’s putting me in the unusual role of defender of Punjabi Pride. You guys are all misreading the poll results, which are more about Quebec than anything else.
Some comments on comments
Razib wrote about the supposed rise of Ethnic mini-cities in Canada. That study is more often misunderstood than not — the increased number of visible-minority neighbourhoods (where more than 30% of the population is non-white) is a result of the increasing number of visible minorities, not of increasing segregation. If you go back to Feng Hou’s original study, it say:
Both the number of minority neighbourhoods and the tendency to live with own-group neighbours among major visible minority groups in 2001 were still lower than the historical levels of some earlier European immigrant groups with a compatible population size.
In most cases, the expansion of visible minority neighbourhoods and the rise in the tendency to live with own-group neighbours were primarily associated with a large population growth through immigration over the past two decades
I recommend reading the original study if you are interested in trends in residential segregation by ethnicity in Canada.
Next, Amitabh wrote
Canada, despite the greater material prosperity, nicer homes, better cars, better schools, has produced little of cultural note …, but lots of drugs, gangs, and other problems
Well, I won’t speak to Punjabi Culture (my family members have some dereogatory jokes, which I categorically deplore and secretly enjoy), but Punjabi Canadians have a spectacular record when it comes to integration. One of BC’S largest forestry companies was founded by Herb (Harbance) Doman. Former BC Premier Ujjal Dosanjh is one of the few non-white politicians who doesn’t rely on an ethnic base (he was a union leader). Punjabi Wajid Khan owns one of the largest car dealerships in Toronto. If you primarily care about music and goofy dancing, by all means, go to Southall (or wherever), but if you want to live in the country that could plausibly one day see a Turban wearing Prime Minister, come to Canada.
Razib wrote again: more possibilities of interaction. but an issue might be what people think of sikhs when they don’t interact. what does a typical person know about sikhs? perhaps television programs about criminals? in other words, lack of knowledge isn’t the only issue, it is the selection of knowledge that they do know.
Ok, we don’t have the full poll data, but the article suggests that Sikhs are relatively unknown and least liked in Quebec, a province with very few Sikhs, and little media exposure to Sikhs other than the highly charged Kirpan / Reasonable Accomodation affair. Francophone Quebeckers don’t pay much attention to English media.
So while I would generally agree that media representations of South Asians are different in Canada and the US, this poll neither confirms nor debunks that prior assumption.
I think the poll result suffers in other ways than simply social distance, especially if Canadians are making a connection between “Sikhs” and the BC bunch of misfits. The articles about the BC bunch nominally refers to them as “Indo-Canadians” (occasionally as “Punjabi Sikhs”) but also contain quotes from gurdwara spokespeople. I say this because the BC gang stories are well publicized, the narratives are within reach of the clueless (“immigrants cause trouble”) and full of straight-to-video plot twists. Point being, I don’t the BC bad boys would identify as Sikhs.
Gaff above:
Point being, I don’t think the BC bad boys would identify as Sikhs.
24/7 at 105:
What’s with all the vagina-bashing, dude? Give birth to a few kids and then tell me again why that’s a synonym for weakness.
Thanks, NVM 🙂 I’m with you — I think you have to compare like to like. If you want to compare Punjabi thuggery between BC and the U.S., go to Richmond, California or to the Central Valley.
This is true, chachaji, but the number of 1950s migrants is miniscule compared to 1960-onwards migrants. The other “first movers” in the U.K. came from the military. I got the impression that the Canadian first-movers were 1) larger in numbers, and 2) from a larger swathe of Punjabi society [of those who can afford to migrate]. I could be TOTALLY off-base; I don’t know nearly enough about Canadian migratory history to draw good parallels 🙁
I have to disagree with Ikram when he talks about punjabi being more intergrated in Canada. Yes there are successful punjabi’s in the Canada, but there also successful punjabi’s in United States. There are lot more punjabi policticans in Canada, but almost all of them ran in areas with huge punjabi population. Even Ujjal Dosanjh is based in part of Vancouver [South Vancouver] where most of the punjabi’s live.
This is from what I’ve seen, but the average punjabi who lives in the United States is more likely to speak english, and have friends of non-punjabi background then in Canada.
Oh, forgot to say, lots of drug traffickers/dealers in BC are not fulfilling the role of Levitt’s “foot soldiers” — they let younger kids do that, kind of the way it works here in the U.S. (but with a more open/less packed/less self-regulated market).
OH! going back upthread… i’ve been meaning to ask this for a while… so puliogre is the same thing as pulihora (telugu word for tamarind rice)?
Yes. 🙂
Ikram, I’m sorry you felt the need to defend anything. You’re right, this wasn’t one of our best threads, but I think we did quite a job of turning it around, wouldn’t you say? I didn’t have to close it, which to me is victory for the good guys. 😉
Also, I’m with Sarah. Don’t diss the vadge.
I’ll say! Camille, Amitabh, Ikram, No von Mises – many thanks for your contributions!
Tuhaadian vi badian meherbaanian, chachaji!
Anna nu vi badiaan meherbaniaan kehniayaan chaidiyaan sann!
Anna, you too deserve thanks: for writing the original post (within what seemed like minutes after Ikram posted his link!), moderating of the discussion, and the successful intervention and restoration. And I would say it has been quite a good thread overall, in spite of the unpleasantness – perhaps even one of the better ones. Thanks again.
Camille @ #182 said:
This is a reasonable assumption but it does not resonate with my (albeit limited) experience. Many of the Punjabi chavs I know who front and flex the hardest come from wealthy families. I suspect they’re acting that way because, like Melbourne Desi, they’re trying to shake some kind of image they feel is foisted on them by non-desi peers. They are trying to assert some sort of pride in their heritage and express solidarity with each other in a very trite, superficial way.
That said, I know that my experience is not universal and circumstances are very different in BC, Toronto and London. I’m just trying to complexify the discussion a bit.
muralimannered @ #196 said:
All these things are true, but let’s not also discount the fact that the US spends more on its military than most nations combined (and it’s not afraid to use it.) And then there’s that whole slavery thing. Of course, colonialism, neo-colonialism, and the slave trade could also be dispassionately held up as examples of an “idustriousness, risk-taking, adventurous” approach.
Bells Beach ( the surfers will understand) is bloody refreshing.
To answer the questions that were asked above.
in Melbourne I live in the western suburbs – which any melburnian will tell you is the dark side.
It is also the home of the goondas and criminals. More crime occurs in Vyp / BB as compared to Mylapore / T Nagar. Remember no guns in Madras ( at least not then)
Not sure I agree especially after Razibs comment about aborting babies based on colour. Foeticide based on gender is wrong while Foeticide based on colour is not?
Would you prefer that I quote ‘Quick Gun Murugan’ 😉
This is not the first time that I have talked about the desis not being tough. Read the comments in the Satender Singh post. No one talks about goras as a nerdy race. There is a fair distribution of nerds / jocks/ crims. Desis are heavily skewed towards nerds.
Murali – thanks for the intrepretations. Despite being on the wrong side of 30 I dont know how I would react if someone repeatedly insulted me. Probably throw acid on his face ?
Possibly Canadians don’t like Sikhs, but I doubt it. Maybe they don’t know what Sikhs are? Certainly they vote them into office in prodigious numbers: both the Tories and the Liberals have sizeable Punjabi caucases in the House of Commons; British Columbia is now on its third Sikh attorney-general (a former Court of Appeal justice who left the bench to run for the provincial legislature, growing tired of judicial restraint about expressing his views), having had one premier (chief minister in Indian terms; governor, more or less, in US terms) and several federal cabinet ministers. But who knew that Moe Sihota was Munmohan Singh Sihota, that Herb Dhaliwal was Harbijan Singh Dhaliwal (and that his wife Jessie was Jaswinder) or that Wally Oppal is, well, he’s Wallace Oppal but that he’s also a Sikh?
(The poll focuses on Quebec, which is increasingly monocultural, Montreal having once been Canada’s most cosmopolitan city: a Palestinian friend there once had a Québecoise get him to teach her a word of Hebrew, practised it all day, then complained that her German acquaintance whom she’d wanted to impress didn’t understand it — “What? German and Hebrew aren’t the same?” and another asked, “Les juifs là , sont ils musulmans ou catholiques?”)
And what is it with people who prefer their racism served up hot and in their face? Bharati Mukherjee made the same complaint of Montrealers versus Americans; me, if a bigot dislikes me on account of my ethnicity or religion I’d far rather he politely keep it to himself.
You have to look a little behind stupid people’s stupid answers to stupid questions.
(Caucuses, that is. I was thinking of Caucasus as in Caucasian obviously.)
i.e., “The Jews, are they Muslim or Catholic?” – this may have happened to your friend, but it’s hard to believe that it represents a larger reality (although I do not question your basic premise that Montreal is turning monolingual, and therefore, in that context, also monocultural).
Montreal’s Jewish community does find mention in most tourist guides, individual Jews are quite prominent in (anglophone) Montreal, so I don’t find the statistic that the survey came up with – that proportionately more Maritimers know Jews than Quebeckers – very believable.
Melbourne Desi, I like, respect and value you as a commenter, which is one of the reasons why I am intervening, again. Razib does not advocate aborting dark babies: to accuse someone of such a thing is heinous –that’s the other reason I’m intervening.
Alerting us to the possibility that something exists is NOT the same as endorsing it.
FYI: I, too, stupidly thought he was a racist a few years ago. I quickly learned otherwise. Some of you haven’t even been here for three months— Razib has been here for three years. I have to say, that’s some chutzpah, to read a comment from last week and decide he’s a nazi, when I have spent the past three years reading almost every comment he has left on this site. I think that gives me some perspective.
If I say someone is not a _____, then kindly trust me. If you should believe anyone about such things, it’s hyper-sensitive, perpetually-offended me.
::
In response to this: Otherwise I don’t see why the aunties need to be abused for blatantly specifying their skin tone preferences, especially when the underlying reasons for this preference are basically the same as those of yours for preferring a more muscular or taller man (for instance).
Razib wrote:
In response to: True, if colorism is practiced as a form of racism, i.e. insistence that skin-tone dictates qualitative aspects. What is wrong in desiring a lighter skinned person for your own personal private use?
Razib wrote:
Another time, he typed:
also:
THIS quote is extra salient:
::
I did not go through the trouble of writing this because I am partial to Razib.
If any of you regulars were being unfairly attacked and/or grossly misrepresented, I would step in then, too. It’s the right thing to do.
Enough. Enough agreeing with the troll who cast Razib as a racist monster. And in the future, please grant me the courtesy of your trust…if I step in and try and clarify something about a commenter here, it’s because I’m telling the truth, I want to get us back on track AND I don’t want people to be hurt. Having some of you ignore that was very frustrating.
If you like this blog and the discussions which occur here, do your part to be fair, civil and to err on the side of “maybe I’m misunderstanding him/her” vs. “they suck!”. It’s difficult to assume the best about people, but you’d be surprised at how often that’s the right thing to do.
Harbeer, what’s your local context, if I may ask? I believe you, I’m just curious 🙂 My p.o.v. is distinctly skewed from growing up in an area where desis (Punjus and otherwise) were mixed-SES levels.
anna, tx. m.d., i can see how you thought what you thought, and, i do push the envelope. suffice it to say that i have a long paper here and elsewhere, and you can make your judgments without dealing with the hearsay of a notorious troll. that being said, perhaps you too should be advised to dial it back a bit? i recall you also jumped over amitabh in an earlier thread without realize he was a known (and respected) quantity. this is a blog with a long history as the internet goes and there’s some context you might miss out in the ASCII that flashes….
Many of us should, especially me. 😉 No more skipping meals, it makes me extra combative. 😀
What does “SES” stand for? I’ve read it in a couple of different posts.
socioeconomic status.
SES = Socio-Economic Status
SocioEconomic Status (the way I’ve used it)