This just in: CanAda doesn’t care about Sikh people

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Mmmm, snark:

Leger poll shows Sikhs are the least liked religion in Canada (liked by only 53% of Canadians). Jews are the most liked minority religion (78%), Muslims at 61%. No data on Christians, or on people who commission really stupid polls. [Ikram]

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But what about Jewish Sikhs? Feh. Fresh from the News Tab, some meshugge story in the Montreal Gazette which deserves Ikram’s (and perhaps your) scorn; Canadians apparently respect Sikhs less than members of other religions, and the amount of contact a Canadian has with a person influences their perception of them. Shocking, but true.

Asked whether they had a favourable opinion of each group, the 1,500 people surveyed by Léger Marketing across Canada said they hold Jews in the highest esteem (78 per cent), Muslims considerably lower (61 per cent) and Sikhs least of all (53 per cent).
And in each case, how much a person approves of one of the minority religions depends on how much contact he or she has had with them. The more contact, the higher the esteem, the poll found.
Forty-five per cent of Canadians are in contact with Jews often or occasionally, according to the poll. Only 37 per cent are in touch with Muslims, and only 21 per cent with Sikhs.

One thing to keep in mind– there are fewer Jewish people than Muslims, in Canada (pronounced Kuh-NAH-da, natch).

According to the 2001 federal census (religion data from the 2006 census are not yet available), there are 330,000 Jews in Canada and 580,000 Muslims. Sikhs number 278,000.

Y’all need to hold some Bhangra Blowout-esque event in Quebec. 😉

Sikhs are best-known in B.C. (44 per cent), Alberta (30 per cent) and Ontario (25 per cent); they’re virtually unknown in Quebec (four per cent, lowest in the country).

But if it is any consolation, people in Quebec also had the least favorable views on Jews. Ha! I rhymed.

Only 69 per cent of Quebecers have a favourable opinion of Jews – the lowest level in Canada. By contrast, Jews are held in highest esteem in the Maritimes (85 per cent), the Prairies (84 per cent) and Ontario (80 per cent).

Familiarity breeds respect, in British Columbia:

Muslims fare best in Ontario and the Maritimes (about 66 per cent) and worst in Quebec (52 per cent). Sikhs are best-regarded in B.C. (66 per cent), Ontario (59 per cent) and Alberta (51 per cent).

Behold, the confusion:

About one in 10 people polled refused to answer the question or simply didn’t know what they thought, except regarding Sikhs. For Sikhs, a higher percentage – one in four – refused or didn’t answer, perhaps reflecting lack of knowledge of Sikhs (except in B.C., where 14 per cent declined to answer or had no opinion).

And now, for you freaks who like statistics and methods and other things which have given me hives, since grad school:

Conducted for the Montreal-based Association for Canadian Studies, the telephone poll was done over seven days from Aug. 22 to 28. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 per cent, 19 times out of 20.

The only useful thought I have regarding this survey is that we create understanding when we interact with others, as opposed to segregating ourselves; we need to educate our friends, coworkers and classmates, when it is feasible and comfortable to do so. The useless thought? One day, all white people should know as much about India as Gwen Stefani does…dating and singing songs about how a cute brown boy broke their heart…optional. 😉

269 thoughts on “This just in: CanAda doesn’t care about Sikh people”

  2. Razib what a surprise on you last post that that the illegal indian immigrant is punjabi. What kind of message is this gonna send back in the punjab. I would’t be suprised if punjabi now start flying into Mexico and try to get into America that way.

    these are people. not roaches.

  3. clueless, well, i didn’t do that purposely 😉 i suspect overstays shouldn’t be that diff. in ethnic skew from what is already present here in the USA. for indians, i think gujaratis are #1, and punjabis #2. then all the other groups.

  4. Some here might mad at me for some of my last few comment, I think if they spent some time in parts of Vancouver like Surrey and Abbotsford, you might understand why I feel the way I feel.

  5. Some here might mad at me for some of my last few comment, I think if they spent some time in parts of Vancouver like Surrey and Abbotsford, you might understand why I feel the way I feel.

    conditions so bad it justifies dehumanizing an entire group of people. thats great.

  6. these are people. not roaches.

    that is correct, and there is a valid humanistic angle to these stories. people don’t leave their homeland for trivial reasons. that being said, this is an issue like free trade: you weight more to what you see than to what you don’t. so it is entirely valid to point out the economic distress that middle class indian visa stays are escaping, that is what you see. what you don’t see is that the vast majority of indians can’t get a tourist visa because they’re too god damned poor to imagine such a thing. similarly, the mexican immigrants who come north are improving their quality of life greatly through increased incomes, so that’s a humanistic boon. but what you don’t see is the fact that most of the world is far poorer than mexico and because of the contingencies of geography don’t have the same migratory opportunities to increase their income (consider the bizarre case of equitorial guinea, where they line up for visas to congo-brazzaville).

  7. (consider the bizarre case of equitorial guinea, where they line up for visas to congo-brazzaville).

    this reminds me of a book i read that said that people in the sudan line up to go to chad. I was thinking “life must have really dealt you a raw deal if you are fleeing to the relative peace and prosperity of chad”.

  8. One of my problems is how many punjabi complain about how bad Canada and the United States is, and yet they talk about great there precious punjab is. It wouldn’t kill them to show a little love for the country that is giving a much better life then homeland, which if it’s so great then why would they leave.

  9. One of my problems is how many punjabi complain about how bad Canada and the United States is, and yet they talk about great there precious punjab is. It wouldn’t kill them to show a little love for the country that is giving a much better life then homeland, which if it’s so great then why would they leave.

    1.) they wouldnt want to go back to the harsh life they had there with no ecoomic opportunity. 2.) they miss home

  12. Here is a list of bc drug dealers that have killed each other since the 1990s. The list is not complete as it does not contain parts of 2004 and all of 2005, 2006 or 2007.:

    http://www.canada.com/vancouver/vancouversun/features/nna/story.html?id=cc7ac95e-4266-4006-8340-c874932aeee1

    Aug. 29, 2004 — Manjinder Singh Nutt, already charged in a stabbing several months ago, is gunned down outside the Saanich basement he had rented for several months. Police say he had connections to the Lower Mainland Indo-Canadian gang scene. July 14, 2004 – Hardeep (Hardy) Bassi of Langley is found dead in his car in Abbotsford after shots are fired around 3:20 a.m. Friends of Bassi’s family said he had gotten mixed up in gangs and drugs. May 4, 2004 — Two Indo-Canadian men are found shot dead in a home in the 800-block of East 32nd Street in Vancouver. One of the victims is identified as Herman Dhillon, a former high school basketball star. The other victim’s identity is not made public. Police say they believe the murders are gang-related. April 26, 2004 — Harjit Ghoman is shot dead in his car in the Pacific National Exhibition’s north parking lot. Ghoman, who had been at a concert at the PNE with his girlfriend, is shot in his car by a man wearing a balaclava. Ghoman was a suspect in a September 2000 shooting in Vancouver. March 23, 2004 — Truck driver Karmen Singh Johl, 63, is found shot to death at the wheel of his Chrysler LeBaron on River Road in Delta. Johl had been convicted of drug trafficking in 1993 and lost property under the Proceeds of Crime Act in 1998. Police are investigating the possibility his murder was linked to Indo-Canadian gangs and cross-border smuggling. March 6, 2004 — Gerpal (Paul) Dosanjh, 27, is shot to death inside the Gourmet Castle Restaurant on East Hastings. He is a cousin of the original Indo-Canadian gangsters — Jimmy and Ron Dosanjh — who were gunned down in 1994 by suspected associates of Bindy Johal Dec. 13, 2003 – Thirty-six year old trucker Gurwinder Singh Bath is found slumped in his car in Bear Creek Park in Surrey. Earlier in the year, Bath, who worked for R&S Transportation Ltd., had been implicated in a cross-border marijuana-smuggling scheme involving commercial trucks. Aug. 16, 2003 — Three people are killed and six are wounded, including several innocent bystanders, after shooting breaks out between bikers and Indo-Canadian gang members at the Loft Six nightclub in Gastown. “Paul” Dosanjh survives a shot in the head, but is killed just months later. Aug. 8, 2003 — Bobby Johal is gunned down in an upscale Saanich neighbourhood. He was wounded three years earlier in a July 2000 attack that claimed the life of his younger brother, Gurinder. Sources say the brothers had been involved in marijuana trafficking. June 8, 2003 — The body of 20-year-old Jaspal Toor is found in south Vancouver. A 26-year-old Burnaby man is charged with second-degree murder. Police say Toor was involved in minor drug activity. Nov. 18, 2002 — Davinder Singh Gharu, 21, is shot outside his New Westminster home. He was a close friend of Jaskaran Singh Chima, who was murdered in spring 2002, and an associate of Robbie Kandola, murdered in June. Sources say the intended target of the hit was actually Gharu’s cousin Peter Adiwal. Nov. 16, 2002 — The body of Heera (Hari) Singh Bahia, 24, is found near Mission. Bahia, who had gang associations, disappeared in August. Nov. 1, 2002 — Abenaas (Abby) Jaswal is doused with flammable liquid and set on fire in a ravine beside a Belcarra regional park road. Port Moody police believe the Simon Fraser University student got involved in a drug scheme that went bad. Sept. 29, 2002 — The body of known drug dealer Kamaljit Singh Sangha of Vancouver is discovered near Nelson Ave. and Marine Drive in Burnaby. Sources say Sangha was killed because he gunned down 22-year-old Michael Ly three months earlier outside a Metrotown apartment building. June 23, 2002 — Cocaine dealer Robbie Kandola is murdered by killers waiting for him as he gets out of a cab in front of his Coal Harbour apartment. Former gangster Bal Buttar said he arranged the hit because Kandola had ordered the murder of Buttar’s brother Kelly six months earlier. April 1, 2002 — Gurjinder (Gary) Singh Sidhu is chased down and shot to death by two men lying in wait for him at the Delta house where his family had been hiding in fear of retaliation for another killing. Three men are later convicted. Buttar says Sidhu, along with his friends Rick Bhatti and Ned Mander, were killed over a heroin smuggling scheme that went bad. March 18, 2002 — New Westminster police discover the body of 25-year-old Jaskaran Singh Chima in a burning car under the Alex Fraser Bridge. Chima was a known drug dealer. Buttar admits he arranged the hit on Chima who he believed was involved in his brother Kelly’s December 2001 murder. Jan. 2, 2002 — The body of Phouvong Phommaviset, 26, is found near the Fraser River in Richmond. Phommaviset was a suspect in the disappearance of Ned Mander the previous October. Dec. 22, 2001 — Kuljit Singh (Kelly) Buttar, 22, is shot dead at a Richmond wedding. Nov. 21, 2001 — The bound bodies of Gurpreet Singh Butter, 25, and Sukhjinder Singh Sahota, 27, are found shot to death on the riverfront near Dyke Road in Richmond. Buttar says the pair was killed over the same heroin deal that involved Sidhu, Bhatti and Mander. Oct. 9, 2001 — Narinder (Ned) Singh Mander is kidnapped from his Surrey business by two men and has not been seen since. Hours later, he makes a call to a friend in a car with Rakinder (Rick) Singh Bhatti. Minutes later, shots are fired at the car near Surrey’s Dasmesh Darbar temple and Bhatti is killed. Mander and Bhatti were allegedly involved in a heroin smuggling scheme that went bad. Sept. 29, 2001 — Kamalbir (Kam) Jawanda is shot dead outside the home of Sarbjit Singh Dhanda, a former Bindy Johal associate and friend of Rick Bhatti and Gary Sidhu. Dhanda is convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to five years. Aug. 20, 2001 — Tyler Hawryluk, 22, an associate of the Buttar brothers and Bindy Johal, is found shot dead in Burnaby. Hawryluk was executed by associates of Bal Buttar who believed he had been the triggerman in the attempted execution of Buttar two weeks earlier. Aug. 3, 2001 — Gary Rai and Baljit Singh (Bal) Buttar are shot at a Vancouver hair salon. Rai is killed and Buttar, a former Bindy Johal associate, is left paralysed. Buttar says Rai conspired with Hawryluk, Buttar’s girlfriend and the woman’s new love to take him out. July 9, 2001 – Lakhwinder Singh Sahota, a dispatcher for R&S Transportation, is shot in the leg as he arrives for work by an Indo-Canadian male who mutters something in Punjabi. Jan. 15, 2001 — The body of 24-year-old Krishan Sharma, who is known to police, is found in a pond under the Pattullo Bridge. Sources say Sharma was choked to death, stripped and burned because he was responsible for a shooting a short time before that left a man critically wounded. Sept. 14, 2000 — Suspected drug dealer Gurpreet Singh Sohi, 20, is shot to death in Delta. Three of his former associates — Robbie Soomel, Gogi Mann and Hardip Uppal — are later convicted. Sept. 9, 2000 — Parmjit Singh Gill, 20, of Burnaby, and 26-year-old Raj Soomel, of Vancouver, are shot and wounded in an exchange of gunfire outside Soomel’s family home on East 59th. Soomel’s brother Robbie believed the shooters were Harj Ghoman, killed in 2004, Gurpreet Sohi, shot a week later by Soomel and admitted gangster Mindy Bhandher. Aug. 25, 2000 — Manmohan Singh Tiwana, 26, is found shot in the head in his car in Surrey. Sources say Tiwana was selling cocaine when a customer decided to steal a kilo and murdered Tiwana in the process. Aug. 4, 2000 — Sanjeev Gill is shot and wounded outside Bar None, in downtown Vancouver. July 27, 2000 — Gurinder Singh Johal, 22, is shot to death in Port Coquitlam. His brother, Bobby Johal, 24, is wounded. Bobby is a former associate of Gurinder Khun Khun, killed in 1997. May 13, 2000 — Mike Brar, 21, acting as a bodyguard for alleged cocaine trafficker Ranjit Singh Cheema, is shot to death outside a west-side Vancouver wedding attended by hundreds of people, including former premier turned Federal Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh. Sources say Robbie Kandola arranged the hit on the popular Brar. Feb. 14, 2000 — The charred body of 21-year-old Rishi Singh, of Vancouver, is found dumped near Squamish. His burned car is later found in Surrey. Robbie Soomel and Daljit (Umboo) Basran are arrested but released a day later. Sept. 3, 1999 — Vikash Naidu, 23, of Vancouver, and Kuldeep Singh, 25, of Richmond, are fatally shot at close range in the parking lot of a 7-Eleven in Richmond. Bal Buttar says he was the “middleman” in arranging the hit on Singh, but that Naidu was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. May 20, 1999 — The body of Deepak Sodhi, 19, of Vancouver, is found on a dike in Delta with gunshot wounds. Robbie Soomel remains a suspect in the murder. Dec. 20, 1998 — Bhupinder Singh (Bindy) Johal, 27, is shot dead at Vancouver’s Palladium nightclub. Bal Buttar says he arranged the hit on Johal for $20,000 after the notorious cocaine dealer became reckless and started killing some of his own associates. Nov. 29, 1998 — Johal friend Roman (Danny) Mann, 22, is found murdered in New Westminster. Buttar says Johal killed Mann because Mann wanted out of the criminal organization. Nov. 18, 1998 — Moderate Sikh newspaper publisher Tara Singh Hayer is shot dead in his Surrey garage. A gangland trial last year heard that Indo-Canadian gangsters were paid $50,000 by the Babbar Khalsa terrorist group to kill Hayer, who was to be a witness at the Air India trial. Oct. 7, 1998 — Drug dealer Vikash Chand, 26, is shot dead outside Rags to Riches Motorcars in Burnaby. Johal went to the scene with Buttar and Mann because he was shocked by his friend Chand’s death. Buttar says Johal was not involved in the murder. Sept. 19, 1998 — Johal associate Derek Chand Shankar, 19, is found shot to death under the Queensborough Bridge in New Westminster. Buttar says he witnessed Johal shoot Shankar after Shankar insulted the crime boss earlier in the evening. Oct. 21, 1997 — Gorinder Singh Khun Khun, 24, is shot dead in Vancouver. While Khun Khun had been hanging out with Johal in the period before his death, Buttar says Johal ordered the hit because he suspected Khun Khun was the shooter in the 1994 attempt on Johal’s life that left his neighbour Glen Olson dead. Jan. 19, 1997 — Amarjit Singh Dheil, 31, is gunned down as he leaves the Marpole Community Centre in Vancouver after a late-night floor hockey game. Buttar says the hit was ordered by Johal. Oct. 11, 1995 — Suspected drug dealer Paul Jabbal, 22, dies after being found at Southeast Marine Drive and Elliott in Vancouver with gunshot wounds. Sources say Jabbal was killed after becoming addicted to his own product, reducing his profits from illegal drug sales. June 10, 1995 — The charred body of Peter Manjeet Dosanj is found in a stolen van set afire in a Delta field. Police say the death is linked to the drug underworld. April 24, 1994 — Johal’s neighbour, Glen Olson, is walking a dog when he is shot dead. Police suspect he was mistaken for Johal by associates of Ron Dosanjh. Buttar says Khun Khun was the likely shooter. April 19, 1994 — Drug dealer Ranjit Singh (Ron) Dosanjh, former head of the Vancouver branch of the International Sikh Youth Federation, is killed on Kingsway. Johal and associates are eventually charged, but acquitted. Feb. 25, 1994 — Drug dealer Jimsher Singh (Jimmy) Dosanjh, Ron’s brother, is shot dead. Johal and associates are eventually charged and acquitted. — compiled by Kim Bolan

  18. WOW!! This sure did turn into “immigrants make me look bad” thread in a hurry.

    If a immigrant comes here to the west then most of his friends are going to be other immigrants. It’s very simple. It’s not like most white people only have minorities as friends, to display their openness to other cultures, like some of you are trying to tell us.

    If you hear people say they liked living in Punjab, its not that Punajab is better, its their level of comfort that they miss. Would it make you feel better if people were to say “Punjab and everything in it is worthless and I wish a bomb would drop on it and make it disappear!”?

  19. Some here might mad at me for some of my last few comment, I think if they spent some time in parts of Vancouver like Surrey and Abbotsford, you might understand why I feel the way I feel.

    Exactly, not all of us live in ethnic enclaves. Just because you might have, that doesn’t mean all Punjabi-Americans/Canadians did. Nor do all of us think Punjab is better than the USA/Canada. Sure, recent immigrants miss the old country, but usually recent immigrants from anywhere will miss their old country for various reasons.

  20. I have found punjabis to be generally proud of their land, culture, food, etc., even when they are in their homeland, let alone thousands of miles away in North America. Combine that with homesickness and the paeans to pind can get a little tiresome.

    Of course, a simple question about the high rate of female foeticide/infanticide can quieten them down a bit.

  22. I don’t live in ethinic enclave. Most of my life I lived there were only 8 other punjabi families. So it was a culture shock for me.

    Also I guess being forced into an arrange marriage at age of 19, by my backward relatives who live in Abbotsford and Surrey who brainwashed my parents, give me some right to attack these people.

  23. Also I guess being forced into an arrange marriage at age of 19

    im sorry that happened to you. but, generalizing that an entire community is bad based on your really bad experience doesnt still make sense. (sounds horrible though)

  24. more punjus around the US = more punju food = good more punjus around the us = more punju grls = good more punjus around the US = better desi dancing = good

    more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi = more hotels/IT engineers/artists/illegal immigrants = good more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi = more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi grls = bad : p more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi = more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi blokes chasing after goris = bad : p more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi = more dravidian-looking people = good

    Lol at silly stereotypes : D .

  25. Female foeticide is very popular among punjabi’s in the west who have not assilmated into the west.

    Also I may had that I have only 1 child and she is a girl, yet I have had many punjabi [many I don’t know] tell me that I need to have son, and some told me that having another daughter would be a mistake. Yet my white friends only ask me If I’m gonna have another child, not the sex of the baby. Why is that?

  26. more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi = more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi grls = bad : p

    bad? how is that bad. huh?

    more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi = more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi blokes chasing after goris = bad : p

    that might actually be entertaining.

  27. Female foeticide is very popular among punjabi’s in the west who have not assilmated into the west. Also I may had that I have only 1 child and she is a girl, yet I have had many punjabi [many I don’t know] tell me that I need to have son, and some told me that having another daughter would be a mistake. Yet my white friends only ask me If I’m gonna have another child, not the sex of the baby. Why is that?

    im not claiming that the punju community doesnt have anything wrong with it, but EVERY community has something wrong with it.

  28. Once, a few months ago I was talking to one of my Friends(blonde)who has lived her entire life in Vancouver and she mentioned she and her family dont like Sikhs, When Asked why she said they dont mix with other ppl, stick within their own flock, are too crude and they dont treat their women fairly and consider white women as inferior to their culture/race.

    I was appalled at the amount of ignorance they have about the sikh culture. One way to counter this is to create public awareness by mixing.

  29. more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi = more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi grls = bad : p bad? how is that bad. huh?

    Mate, they crave Brown Daddy’s percy. My percy prefers goris.

    more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi = more guju/south indian/bengali/bangladeshi blokes chasing after goris = bad : p that might actually be entertaining.

    More competition.

    I love making inane comments on SM! : )

  30. To comment 78 by pappu. Most of the younger punjabi that were born into Canada, stick together and don’t have many non-punjabi friends.

    I have made new friends since I moved here, who grew up with punjabi all there lifes, yet I’m there 1st punjabi friend.

  31. One way to counter this is to create public awareness by mixing.

    hmm..not to self. create awareness aout my culture by “mixing”. spend as much time “mixing” with whyte chyx as possible.

    im a deep humanitarian.

  32. Mate, they crave Brown Daddy’s percy. My percy prefers goris.

    but…even if your “percy” (that sounds drty) preffers goris, having a lot of grls around of any kind that “crave” your “percy” cant hurt.

  33. To clueless/Puliogre in da USA/navi:

    As a Punjabi-American from Seattle, while growing up a rarely knew any Indians, let alone Punjabis. And as you can imagine, visiting Surrey-Vancouver was quite a ‘cultural shock’ to me.

    While people will complain about how Surrey is an ethnic ghetto, people are backwards, too “pindoo” etc, you have to realize, across North America ethnic enclaves DO exist(currently and in the past.) They’re going to develop no matter what, but it happens with pretty much every ethnic group (well…the ones with larger populations). Yes, I do agree that forced marriage, female foeticide, etc. is wrong, but there is often an equivalent amongst enclaves of different ethncities.

    To sum it all up: the Punjabi community, like any other ethnic group in Canada/America, does have it’s problems, but what group doesn’t?

  34. spend as much time “mixing” with whyte chyx as possible.

    yes sir. frehies should nobb whyte chyx as much as they can…best way to assimilate into the west. avoid ones at discos/pubs, they’re a bit “loose”

  35. Most of the 100 young punjabi men who were killed over the last decade in gang violence in Vancouver grew up in those ethnic enclaves in which there parents had very little idea about western culture.

  36. Most of the 100 young punjabi men who were killed over the last decade in gang violence in Vancouver grew up in those ethnic enclaves in which there parents had very little idea about western culture.

    so….what are you suggesting? throw em out? exterminate them? i mean, what are you actually saying?

  37. but…even if your “percy” (that sounds drty) preffers goris, having a lot of grls around of any kind that “crave” your “percy” cant hurt.

    Desi grls (18-25) = drama (“I love you brown daddy! You love me too, right?!”; “When are you going to meet my parents?”; “Wait, you’re not a virgin?!”; “Whose Maddie and Maria?!”). No thanks :/

  38. Desi grls (18-25) = drama (“I love you brown daddy! You love me too, right?!”; “When are you going to meet my parents?”; “Wait, you’re not a virgin?!”; “Whose Maddie and Maria?!”). No thanks :/

    leaves more 4 me.

  39. We need a mass cull of Punjabis in Canada with Clueless overseeing the deportation / imprisonment to a Gitmo type institution, Butter Chicken and others in charge of waterboarding.

  40. The difference between the Punjabi (mainly Sikh) communities in the UK vs. those in Canada are stark…there is something special about the interaction of Punjabi cultural inputs with English social conditions and environment that allowed the amazing creativity that the Sikh community there has produced…I can’t put my finger on it, but conditions were just right somehow (requiring the right cultural inputs on the part of the desis, as well as the right setting for those inputs to find expression), and they’ve never been duplicated anywhere else in the diaspora. Despite racism and economic marginalisation, a real UK-grown 2nd gen diasporic Punjabi culture flowered there like nowhere else.

    Canada, despite the greater material prosperity, nicer homes, better cars, better schools, has produced little of cultural note (except great bhangra dancers, which I would never knock, and of course Jazzy B, who I think is actually quite good), but lots of drugs, gangs, and other problems. Of course, the silent majority of desis there are good, law-abiding people who are quietly getting on with their lives and attaining all sorts of success, but they are overshadowed by the more visible elements who are getting into trouble all the time. This of course has nothing to do with the results of this poll, which if anything show that LACK of knowledge and interaction lead to negative feelings.

  42. I do think that the amazing success and penetration of the long-established UK-based Punjabi scene, has actually prevented similar things from happening in Canada…instead of having to be creative, they just import cultural product from the UK.

  43. Most of the 100 young punjabi men who were killed over the last decade in gang violence in Vancouver grew up in those ethnic enclaves in which there parents had very little idea about western culture.

    Very true. I blame the Jatt ego as well.

    excessive Punjabi pride/lack of education/rejection of western culture/resistance to assimilation = killing

  45. Canada, despite the greater material prosperity, nicer homes, better cars, better schools, has produced little of cultural note (except great bhangra dancers, which I would never knock, and of course Jazzy B, who I think is actually quite good), but lots of drugs, gangs, and other problems. Of course, the silent majority of desis there are good, law-abiding people who are quietly getting on with their lives and attaining all sorts of success, but they are overshadowed by the more visible elements who are getting into trouble all the time. This of course has nothing to do with the results of this poll, which if anything show that LACK of knowledge and interaction lead to negative feelings.

    Amitabh, very well put. But would love to get your (and every one else’s) take on why – why the drugs and gangs? And the comparison across Seattle and Vancouver – between the Punjabis on either side of the border – is also quite stark.

    Now, there was a time in the US when there were gangsters that were Jewish, even boxers and ball players that were Jewish. Not so much any more, or at least, the Jewish gangsters aren’t going bang-bang in the street any more, they just do it differently 🙂 So is this just that well trodden path to eventual ‘assimilation’, or is something more virulent and vicious going on?

  46. This of course has nothing to do with the results of this poll, which if anything show that LACK of knowledge and interaction lead to negative feelings.

    why would you say it has nothing to do with the attitudes? if you have a religious group that is more disliked than muslims since 9/11 in the west that makes you want to inquire as to what the local dynamics are.

  47. In the UK, its the bloody Pakis (Pakistanis) that create loads of trouble. Pakis and Chavs : p

    Jatt Pride!! : D

  48. A few brown gangstas / tough guy image wont hurt. If anything we need more bad boys in the brown community. Too many wimps. I hope that there a few bad boys and girls in the next generation of Aussie Desis.

  49. A few brown gangstas / tough guy image wont hurt. If anything we need more bad boys in the brown community.

    the world has enough ‘tough’ posers and gangsters. which nations are the most modernized and the developed? those with the big-bad-men, or with industrious p*ssies?

  50. why the drugs and gangs?

    Easy money, falshy cars, women, peer pressure, macho image, and parents who are culturally at a loss to understand the complex realities of their 2nd gen childrens’ lives. And did I say easy money? I’m not sure to what extent if any the host society is also to blame.

    Razib, I thought the poll showed that people didn’t like groups that they didn’t interact with as much?