My baby cousin at UCLA still hasn’t forgiven me for joining Facebook. His objection is not that I’m too old for it or that I lessen its “cool factor†with my elderly presence—he just hates the program and apparently I was the last person he knew and cared about, who was not on it. That had more to do with pragmatic causes than most anything else; I was happy on Friendster and consummately preferred it to MyAss or the more “globalâ€/Brazilian Orkut. I didn’t have time to maintain profiles on a plethora of time-sucks. And most relevant of all, I couldn’t be bothered to get an “alumni†email addy from either of the schools I managed to graduate from…and once upon a time, you needed such official stuff to participate in the Facebook-orgy.
Not anymore. And so a few of you began inviting me to join it and I pointedly ignored such requests…until one of you was Facebook-stalking a guy you thought was sooo cute.
“What’s his friendster link?â€, I asked.
“He’s not ON friendster…he’s only on Facebook!â€
“Well, then I can’t see him.â€
“But you just HAVE to see this one picture…I have a feeling you know his friend.â€
“You know how I’ve never been a bridesmaid?â€
“Yeah what does that have to do with anything??â€
“I’m signing up for this bullshit right now, so A) you best marry his ass and B) I best be in some sort of poufy outfit, twitching out of boredom on an altar in a year or three.â€
“Omg, whatever you want, just SIGN UP and so I did. But I didn’t bother uploading a pic or filling out my profile, not for a while. Then, I was asked to write something about social networking and I needed more information about FB, specifically a sense of how intuitive it was to use. I noticed, upon logging in, that I had been “poked†approximately 40 times. I also noticed that several of my far-flung friends were considerably more active and in touch on FB than they were on Fster. This puzzled me until I realized that they were destroying all of their free time defenestrating each other via “SuperPokeâ€, proving their music IQ via some guessing game which was far superior to the one on my iPod and playing Scrabble online via the hyper-addictive “Scrabulousâ€.
Well, I saw her Facebook…and now I’m a believer. I will happily eat the words which initially expressed indifference towards this program. The recent app explosion transformed FB for me, from a site to ignore to one which I am now constantly logged in to…which brings me to this post.
Now that I am spending a ton of time on there, my inner, dilettante-sociologist is hyper-stimulated. There’s so much to discover, like…
- How annoying today’s youths in high school are (incoherent and illiterate comments on group walls)
- How thousands of others also speak shitty Malayalam (via the Ende Malayalam Sucks group)
- How several of you first discovered SM! (via the SM Group, natch)
- How people are utilizing Web 2.0 to create support groups for Inter-desi relationships (!!!)
Here, read all about it. I’ll post the group’s “description” for you:
Aviyal Couples Type: Common Interest – Dating & RelationshipsDescription: This group (also a support group) is for all the desi people that are in a relationship (dating, engaged or married) where your partner is Indian but is from a different state in India or is from a different religion or caste. This type of relationship can’t be called interracial, so it can be called an ‘Aviyal Relationship’
For example: An Indian from Mumbai is in a relationship with an Indian from Bihar or an Indian from Tamil Nadu is in a relationship with an Indian from Kerala e.t.c or an Indian who is Hindu is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Christian or an Indian who is a Jain is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Brahmin e.t.c
* Aviyal – a south indian vegetable curry that has a mix of different vegetables. [Facebook]
I didn’t even realize there was a term for this situation—one I have been in for almost half of my dating life. While I tried valiantly to date Malayalee boys, “just to make it easier†on all 349 people who were potentially involved with such an alliance, I went to a college that had no Malayalee male undergrads and didn’t attend our local (read: more than 100 miles away) Syriac Orthodox church. I was far more likely to encounter Punjabi Sikh guys at U.C. Davis/Fresno/Modesto/Yuba City and predictably, that is what I often dated.
I had been making Aviyal all the way through college and I had been oblivious to it!
Whether by circumstance, i.e. being one of a handful of South Indians at a school dominated by Northies or by choice, i.e. just plain falling for someone, this is a cocktail we will see more and more of, no matter what our respective parents think of such emotional collisions. One of you, who comments regularly, is a Tamil married to a Punjabi; sometimes, the comments which inform me of this detail also contain other bits of information, which illustrate how challenging such a union is. I’m assuming both parties involved are probably Hindu, which makes things nominally easier, but when you add interreligious components to the conflict…sometimes, that is exactly what you get: conflict.
When one of the only Malayalee girls I grew up with got married about a decade ago (she was a bit older than us…because I remember that even her younger brother was two years older than me), it caused quite a stir, since she, a Namboodiri, had fallen in love with a Mallu Christian she had met at school. This was the source of much discussion and concern, as our parents pondered whether this was a harbinger of their own future disappointment.
Years later, I felt compassion for her, once I realized what the “odds†were like…it’s difficult enough finding a match who is Malayalee, finding one who is Mallu and of the same faith narrows the pool considerably—especially when you take caste or in the case of Christianity, multiple denominations in to account. It may seem counterintuitive, since Kerala’s Christians comprise a disproportionate share of Malayalee Americans, but yes, it’s hard to find a suitable boy. My father never forgave the Catholic church for what they did in the 17th century, so the thought of me marrying one was inconceivable. MarThomites were out because they were anti-feminist-Mary-haters who shamelessly chose not to revere the dead. 😉
We were fiercely Orthodox and unlike many Malayalee couples, both of my parents were Orthodox; my mother didn’t “convert†to marry him. So for me, Orthodox it would have to be.
Do you have any idea how many single Orthodox Malayalee boys there are in America, who are over the age of 32?
Approximately two.
I have a Sikh friend who is a few years older than me, who is also single, because he’s rather Orthodox himself, and most Sikh girls he encounters want someone sans beard and turban. One of you posted a NYT Vows link recently, all because the groom was Muslim and the bride was Hindu and yes, I’ll admit my non-existent eyebrows rose heavenwards upon reading it, because that’s what I’m conditioned to do. We are marinating in aviyal, whether we know it or not (pass me the drumsticks, btw…and keep the arbi to your damned self).
I’ll probably end up in an “aviyalâ€-marriage of my own, so I confess that I’m partially motivated to explore this aspect of growing up in the diaspora, out of self-interest. But I also remember a certain thread where it was brought up quite a few times, so I know it’s on your mind, too, along with potheads on celluloid and Shah Rukh Khan-endorsed colorism. If you have your own thoughts to add about aviyal, sambar or rasam relationships, speak.
There are many mutinies within which we can participate; the struggles associated with dating “outside†of the precise group we were born in to, perhaps more than any other uprising, often involve the most upheaval and anguish, even if one’s intended is also a shade of Sepia.
yumm…machcher jhal and luchi .
Mast-mom, is that your food blog by any chance ?
oooh, luchi is the final word in heaven, at least in my book :-). Posterity, thanks for the NY restaurant tip, have to plan a trip there now (am in DC). About the real topic of this thread, had an arranged marriage, (we are both DBDs), which was traditional in the extreme, same region, language, religion caste etc but biggest fights were on guess what? food! My cooking was and continues to be open to different influences while hubby is big on “authenticity” so constant pull and push. Both love ethiopian food though:-)
Posterity,
I had never had Sri Lankan food before so I can’t vouch for how authentic it is. I like the spice in the food and if you are a non vegetarian there are some good options. I also like appas with meats and seafood so that was an added blessing. I think the place is run by a family so it makes it all the more special.
For Pak tea house, it is nothing great in terms of ambiance, to give you an idea, I grew up eating muslim style curries in old Delhi so the food at pak tea house is close to home. The people who run it are very nice.
I know! reminded me of my lunch tiffin when I was an innocent bakra at Happy Nursery School in Delhi
zuni, sadly no, not my blog, looks great doesnt it, may have to go ilish shopping this weekend!
Jeet,
What part of Delhi was the school you went to? I recall one from DaryaGanj and one close to Karol Bagh
So you are not from a khate-peete and hatte-katte ghar…;)
brown, it was on Bungalow Road, Kamla Nagar if my memory serves me right. I lived all over Delhi; Malka Ganj, Pitampura, Mukherjee Nagar and later GK
Jeet,
Good to see you here, I think there was one in Kamla Nagar, I went to college at Hansraj but that was also a long time ago.
sort of off-topic but @331 Runa commented that the 28 yr. old should defintely call her auntie. Really???!!! I thought the age gap should be at least 20 years!! ie. someone too old to be typically considered older sibling. I used to call everyone aunty/uncle until a lady who had a daughter 5 years younger than me told me that she would prefer not to be called auntie. It made her feel old. I’ve started being a bit more restrictive in my aunty calling.
I’m with ya, sister 🙂 I’m glad that I kind of decided this before I was really dating, also, because it makes reconciling (and explaining this preference to your parents) much easier, I think.
Jeet, I’m from a ghar in which my father is the only person on his side to live past the age of 55 [heart disease, hypertension]. We have been a low-fat, low-sodium household since I was 2 🙂 Puris are eaten/cooked very rarely in my parents’ home (e.g. once every 1-2 years).
CORRECTION: My 23 year old nephew most definitely called me “auntie” and I didn’t really know if it was appropriate for him not to .My response was to Puli’s question as to whether I am in the age group that he can call me Aunty and my answer was if a 23 year old can, Puli at 28 can too.
Now should anyone call me auntie ? Please, for the love of all that’s desi , don’t!! 🙂
“Runa”/”Akka”/”Hey, you there” works fine !
Camille, did your family ever microwave pappadams? My mom tried this thinking that we would still have our pappadam but no one ate it.
I am at an age where I am too young to address someone with their first name but too old to call someone aunty or uncle. Whenever in doubt I say go with ji. So Runaji…..is that better?
I thought ji was a maculine title, no?
masculine
i’m abd and have dated dbd girls while living in india..my biggest problem was dealing with their d-bag guy friends and warped elitist views. if i didn’t agree with them on something arbitrary it was always because i was an arrogant american prick… there were good things too though!
for breakfast, how bout paratha, kheema-lasan, and two bullseyes easy? or on a kerala tip, appams and stew?..
bg, we never microwaved pappad, no… But we don’t really make them/eat them that often, to be honest, but when we do we bake them (still crisp but not fried).
“ji” isn’t masculine or feminine… at least not in Punjabi. You can use it for anyone; examples: bhenji (sister), bhaji (brother), naniji (maternal grandmother), masiji (mother’s sister), chachaji (dad’s younger brother), auntie-ji/uncle-ji
I’ll try not to, Runa auntie. 😉
bg @ 363 – use the toaster or over an open flame – as long as you cook it thoroughly, it actually tastes quite nice.
since my parents hate the concept of dating, i wouldn’t know 🙂 but on the other hand, so many of their parents’ friends kids have married non-desis, that they have made it clear that they would be cool with it (with restrictions, of course). but, like you, i also decided this at a relatively young age – it has made the theoretical dating much easier, but i can’t say so much for the practise 😉 also, despite my openness to guys of all backgrounds, i find that my particular looks only seem to attract brown guys – some non-desis, but mostly desis. i find this to be puzzling, and at times, frustrating…
Okay,I walked straight into that one !
Its kinda sad but ji is used less and less nowadays
Jeet,
Jeete raho and all that !
It’s not the ingredients I meant, Camille, but the combination – bhurji + chapati (fresh ‘roti’) + chilly pickle – not bhurji + parantha + aamb da aachaar! I usually do not add potatoes in my bhurji, but add plenty of tomatoes, which come in when the scrambling is almost, but not quite done. The milk is not necessary by any means, and I don’t add it.
Do you mean, you’ve never made it yourself?
My observations have likely been stated (didn’t read all the 360+ comments):
Just the fact that a term such as “aviyal relationships” exists is proof that Southies are staking their claim in the cultural diaspora (’bout damn time if you ask me).
ANNA (at 105): My mom makes a cranberry thokku as well. It’s the shizz. Unfortunately, because of some bizarre desire to somehow associate it with vestern holidays, she only makes it around Thanksgiving and Christmas.
As for the auntie/uncle thing, when I was growing the rule for me was you had to be at least 15 years older than me AND married before you got the uncle/auntie. Many of my childhood family friends are having kids now, and they’re all calling me uncle. It kills me, worse than being a mama, but what can you do?
I love how when you get a bunch of desis in a room (virtual or no), especially the southies, the conversation invariably drifts toward the topic of food.
I’ve tried doing that a few times, and the pappadum just doesn’t taste good. The best way is to use a pair of tongs and open flame, as ak mentioned. Brings out the flavor.
you aviyal people are pretty brave. I had the spine of an amoeba and therefore never muttered a single HELLL NOOO when my parents even refused to let me go the freakin library for a group study. OF course now that many of my friends have married non-mallus (gasp), they are totally o.k. with the concept. Granted, this is after they married my sister and I off. Luckily, my man is awesome so no gripes but I still wish I would have stood up to them so I could have at least experienced the dating scene.
Oh, I don’t think you can have bhurji unless you do it with parantha. I am more flexible on the form of aachar (nimbu is acceptable, although not as good, as amb in this case). I often do aloo + anda (haha, why am I using Punjabi? egg and potato!). I make it myself, but I like feeling “baby’ed” by my mom when I come home and she asks what I’d like for breakfast 🙂 To my credit I try not to request it too often b/c I don’t like to make her do more work than she already does.
ak, my parents hate the concept of dating as well, but we had early convos on how this was inevitable from my point of view. I think part of why they’re more “permissive” (although still irked by dating, be it cross-cultural or otherwise) is because very few of my mom’s cousins ended up marrying other Punjabis. At least 75% of her first-cousins are in interracial marriages (white, Nepalese, Latino, etc.). Kind of remarkable, actually, given their age demographic, etc, although I’ms ure razib will pop in with a statistic showing that their rate of “out-marriage” is not an unusual phenomena 😉
Of course it’s masculine – as in Mataji, Mummyji, Auntieji, Dadiji, Naniji, Mamiji, Chachiji, etc 🙂
In our family we don’t butter or ghee our chapati when having it with meat or eggs. In other cases it’s fine though. Isn’t that a part of Kashrut? Do others desis share this dietary quirk?
That’s how I remember eating it too, growing up. Mostly with paratha, but sometimes with bread/toast. And ketchup. 😀
I was told to never mix milk with fish-supposedly caused skin pigmentation.
I forgot the open flame / toaster. It’s true, this is better than baking 🙂 There’s something about how a microwave heats food that really ruins the concept of crispness (for example, if I overtoast a waffle I’ll throw it in the microwave for 5 minutes to get it “moist” again). If it gets dry enough, then the food is chewy.
Posterity, we just don’t butter our chapati in general, but I think the exceptions you’re talking sound more religion-culture oriented, if that makes sense? (e.g. not mixing meat + milk at the table if keeping kosher)
By the way – re bhurji – I don’t use egg yolks at all – only egg whites, so the tomatoes do add an essential bit of color.
And also by the way, has anyone ever tried the ‘egg dosa’ ? Like, supposedly, they fry the egg sunny-side up on the dosa itself. I’ve only ever seen it on restaurant menus. Don’t know anyone who’s eaten it, and am curious if it’s really authentic?
egg dosa is legit…
Chachaji 381,
The only place I had eaten egg dosa was in my college cafeteria back in India, I am not sure if it is authentic but I like pretty much everything with egg. It is also good to know that the food quirks like no milk and fish, no butter or chapatis with meat and microwaved papads are shared by many. Camille, I don’t think the no butter on chapatis with meat is relegious at all, for me the butter on the chapati with Indian style meat makes the meal heavier hence no butter.
Camille, just wanted to say that this was so well-put, and captured what I loved so much about going out with people who belong to different religions/race/ethnicity. Granted that they all fit a similar profile because they grew up in fairly well-to-do backgrounds in X country (be they Jewish/WASP/desi) and whatever said and done, the kids of the international bourgeoisie have much in common whether they grew up in Bombay or Bethesda. Does anyone have stories about significant (and I mean significant, like in Hindi movies) class differences in a relationship? How’d that go?
PS: Although me mum complains about the “madrasi” I’m seeing now, I’m willing to bet she’s secretly very happy that he’s not some artsy-fartsy gora, but a “highly-educated” engineer.
is anyone else concerned with how you will keep in touch with relatives in the motherland? is there anyone else who even cares about this, actually? i’m a pretty sentimental person, so this is something i think about. my dad’s side is very conservative (one uncle’s wife doesn’t even sit in the presence of her husband! she crouches!) my mother’s side is a bit more liberal (an uncle on her side let his daughter go Down Under for college). so needless to say, a lot of relatives don’t speak English very well. some of them don’t even understand my Telugu that well, because I don’t know/use rural slang. so i’m not sure how an aviyal or interracial marriage would work in terms of that (assuming that it would even be accepted). i want my kids to know their extended family and be able to speak with them in Telugu, y’know? (um, i’m still in college and nowhere to close to even thinking about having kids for real, let alone getting into a potentially-resulting-in-marriage relationship, but i’m just sayin’)
chachaji@381
in response to egg dosa, all I can say is “AIYOO RAMACHANDRA!!”
traditional accompaniments to dosa areL sambar, potato koora, peanut chutney, coconut chutney, tomato chutney, milaga podi, or chutney podi, in our Tel/Tam Brahm home.
andas are meant strictly for paranthas.
chachaji: one of my cousins specializes in making egg dosas. he egged me on (pun intended) to try it once, and it wasn’t really to my taste. i think that’s because i thought the concept was just so bizarre, and have a certain psychological mindset about what dosas should be eaten with (e.g. my mom made dosas with idli pindi last night, and i couldn’t stand it).
Yes, it’s the similarity to Kosher that intrigued me. But then we have no qualms about using both dahi and ghee to cook a certain kind of meat dish. Did I turn you off Camille? I swear we are all super healthy;) Touchwood ( as my mom would rush to add )!
Egg dosas are sorta like ‘pancakes with eggs’ – which of course I have eaten, but I have exactly the reaction to them that lifelong had. Somehow they just don’t add up. But I’m glad we have both pro and con opinions on that 🙂
sometimes egg is beaten into the dosa batter…as far as dosa only going with meatless things, perhaps the 97% of people in tamil nadu and andhra pradesh who are not tel/tam brahm might disagree with you..they may go so far to eat it pork, liver, tripe, brain whatever..
egg dosa rocks, man. is this more a telugu thing? i’ve only ever had egg dosa in my relatives’ houses, and not in any other south indian home. personally, i like it with podi (chilli-channa powder mix) rather than the usual chutney sambar…
camille, i’ve learned to avoid the ‘who i’m dating topic’ because my parents are so condescending about it when other people’s kids date, there’s no way i am risking that convo unless the guy is worth it, which up until now, hasn’t happened. my parents are totally not liberal when it comes to any whiff of romance….
nala, that’s a nice sentiment, but i hope that if you meet a guy who’s perfect for you, and just happens to not be telugu (though, in your case, this could mean he’s not perfect :)) you think a bit to consider whether your extended family is really a dealbreaker. i used to think like you, but as the years have gone and i’ve had a better sense of my life and myself, this sentiment has, essentially, gone for a toss.
chachaji, that makes sense. I don’t like egg dosa, and have no idea if it’s authentic. I don’t know why I dislike it — it’s not much different from a crepe. I also like the Ugandan rolex (I have no idea what the non-slang word for it is). Oh, and of course, back to bhurji (a.k.a. best Punju b’fast ever), I hear you on cutting out the yolks. I don’t eliminate them entirely, but I use a 1:3 or 1:4 ratio.
brown, sorry I should clarify. I don’t think there’s any religious rationale behind butter/not buttering, but for those who do this with some kind of consistency it seems like there’s often some way-back-when religious reason for it. That said, I’m sure personal preference is a better explanation 🙂
port, a coworker of mine is dating a guy from a different class background than she is (which several of my friends have done), and she’s had a really rough time. Not because she thinks there’s anything wrong with it, per se, but because 1) her friends totally don’t think he’ “good enough for her”, and 2) she’s noticed the distinct difference in cultural capital that is often connected to class. For example, he really believes that if you make a ton of money, your class background shifts automatically. She would say that there’s more to it than that (otherwise why would we use terms like “nouveau riche vs. riche”?), and he found her explanation very hurtful. I think a great movie that looks at these kinds of class assumptions/differences, although in a different ethnic community, is Daddy’s Little Girls.
nala, most of my des-based family is dying out. I know that sounds harsh, but most of my cousins have immigrated and the older generations are aging quickly. That said, what’s to stop someone from learning a language? My cousin-mamaji grew up in Tamil Nadu and speaks Tamil, Punjabi, Hindi, and English. My Delhi-based great-aunt speaks conversational Telegu because her housekeeper is a Southie. My (California, Central Valley-based) cousins who’ve married Latinas have learned conversational Spanish. This is all as adults. Their kids are learning English, Punjabi, and Spanish. Even if people struggle, just the act of trying is often appreciated.
Faints{not feints!}…AGAIN
what other kind of pindi to you make dosa with?? i just blend the same pindi for dosa and idli (most people do, and they use the batter immediately for idli, and then if it gets stale in a day or two, use it for dosa). do you mean you don’t like plain dosa – e.g. you like it mixed with wheat, rava etc?
what is pindi??
Hmmm..Interesting! How do you make that?
How about Potato Fries Curry or Cucumber curry..anybody tried those?
pindi = batter (in telugu)
“so i’m not sure how an aviyal or interracial marriage would work in terms of that (assuming that it would even be accepted). “
nala, I am actually very close to my extended family in India. I lived there till I was 15. Its very important to me that they accept my future wife. Sometimes I feel that my parents are more conservative about interracial marriages etc. to please the extended family back home. Ironically, most of my cousins back home have had love marriages and most of them aviyal.
…and my infantile mind shall never perceive “Rawalpindi” the same way again. 😉
Camille,
Thanks for your clarification.
Has anyone tried the deep fried idlis you get in Bombay?