My baby cousin at UCLA still hasn’t forgiven me for joining Facebook. His objection is not that I’m too old for it or that I lessen its “cool factor†with my elderly presence—he just hates the program and apparently I was the last person he knew and cared about, who was not on it. That had more to do with pragmatic causes than most anything else; I was happy on Friendster and consummately preferred it to MyAss or the more “globalâ€/Brazilian Orkut. I didn’t have time to maintain profiles on a plethora of time-sucks. And most relevant of all, I couldn’t be bothered to get an “alumni†email addy from either of the schools I managed to graduate from…and once upon a time, you needed such official stuff to participate in the Facebook-orgy.
Not anymore. And so a few of you began inviting me to join it and I pointedly ignored such requests…until one of you was Facebook-stalking a guy you thought was sooo cute.
“What’s his friendster link?â€, I asked.
“He’s not ON friendster…he’s only on Facebook!â€
“Well, then I can’t see him.â€
“But you just HAVE to see this one picture…I have a feeling you know his friend.â€
“You know how I’ve never been a bridesmaid?â€
“Yeah what does that have to do with anything??â€
“I’m signing up for this bullshit right now, so A) you best marry his ass and B) I best be in some sort of poufy outfit, twitching out of boredom on an altar in a year or three.â€
“Omg, whatever you want, just SIGN UP and so I did. But I didn’t bother uploading a pic or filling out my profile, not for a while. Then, I was asked to write something about social networking and I needed more information about FB, specifically a sense of how intuitive it was to use. I noticed, upon logging in, that I had been “poked†approximately 40 times. I also noticed that several of my far-flung friends were considerably more active and in touch on FB than they were on Fster. This puzzled me until I realized that they were destroying all of their free time defenestrating each other via “SuperPokeâ€, proving their music IQ via some guessing game which was far superior to the one on my iPod and playing Scrabble online via the hyper-addictive “Scrabulousâ€.
Well, I saw her Facebook…and now I’m a believer. I will happily eat the words which initially expressed indifference towards this program. The recent app explosion transformed FB for me, from a site to ignore to one which I am now constantly logged in to…which brings me to this post.
Now that I am spending a ton of time on there, my inner, dilettante-sociologist is hyper-stimulated. There’s so much to discover, like…
- How annoying today’s youths in high school are (incoherent and illiterate comments on group walls)
- How thousands of others also speak shitty Malayalam (via the Ende Malayalam Sucks group)
- How several of you first discovered SM! (via the SM Group, natch)
- How people are utilizing Web 2.0 to create support groups for Inter-desi relationships (!!!)
Here, read all about it. I’ll post the group’s “description” for you:
Aviyal Couples Type: Common Interest – Dating & RelationshipsDescription: This group (also a support group) is for all the desi people that are in a relationship (dating, engaged or married) where your partner is Indian but is from a different state in India or is from a different religion or caste. This type of relationship can’t be called interracial, so it can be called an ‘Aviyal Relationship’
For example: An Indian from Mumbai is in a relationship with an Indian from Bihar or an Indian from Tamil Nadu is in a relationship with an Indian from Kerala e.t.c or an Indian who is Hindu is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Christian or an Indian who is a Jain is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Brahmin e.t.c
* Aviyal – a south indian vegetable curry that has a mix of different vegetables. [Facebook]
I didn’t even realize there was a term for this situation—one I have been in for almost half of my dating life. While I tried valiantly to date Malayalee boys, “just to make it easier†on all 349 people who were potentially involved with such an alliance, I went to a college that had no Malayalee male undergrads and didn’t attend our local (read: more than 100 miles away) Syriac Orthodox church. I was far more likely to encounter Punjabi Sikh guys at U.C. Davis/Fresno/Modesto/Yuba City and predictably, that is what I often dated.
I had been making Aviyal all the way through college and I had been oblivious to it!
Whether by circumstance, i.e. being one of a handful of South Indians at a school dominated by Northies or by choice, i.e. just plain falling for someone, this is a cocktail we will see more and more of, no matter what our respective parents think of such emotional collisions. One of you, who comments regularly, is a Tamil married to a Punjabi; sometimes, the comments which inform me of this detail also contain other bits of information, which illustrate how challenging such a union is. I’m assuming both parties involved are probably Hindu, which makes things nominally easier, but when you add interreligious components to the conflict…sometimes, that is exactly what you get: conflict.
When one of the only Malayalee girls I grew up with got married about a decade ago (she was a bit older than us…because I remember that even her younger brother was two years older than me), it caused quite a stir, since she, a Namboodiri, had fallen in love with a Mallu Christian she had met at school. This was the source of much discussion and concern, as our parents pondered whether this was a harbinger of their own future disappointment.
Years later, I felt compassion for her, once I realized what the “odds†were like…it’s difficult enough finding a match who is Malayalee, finding one who is Mallu and of the same faith narrows the pool considerably—especially when you take caste or in the case of Christianity, multiple denominations in to account. It may seem counterintuitive, since Kerala’s Christians comprise a disproportionate share of Malayalee Americans, but yes, it’s hard to find a suitable boy. My father never forgave the Catholic church for what they did in the 17th century, so the thought of me marrying one was inconceivable. MarThomites were out because they were anti-feminist-Mary-haters who shamelessly chose not to revere the dead. 😉
We were fiercely Orthodox and unlike many Malayalee couples, both of my parents were Orthodox; my mother didn’t “convert†to marry him. So for me, Orthodox it would have to be.
Do you have any idea how many single Orthodox Malayalee boys there are in America, who are over the age of 32?
Approximately two.
I have a Sikh friend who is a few years older than me, who is also single, because he’s rather Orthodox himself, and most Sikh girls he encounters want someone sans beard and turban. One of you posted a NYT Vows link recently, all because the groom was Muslim and the bride was Hindu and yes, I’ll admit my non-existent eyebrows rose heavenwards upon reading it, because that’s what I’m conditioned to do. We are marinating in aviyal, whether we know it or not (pass me the drumsticks, btw…and keep the arbi to your damned self).
I’ll probably end up in an “aviyalâ€-marriage of my own, so I confess that I’m partially motivated to explore this aspect of growing up in the diaspora, out of self-interest. But I also remember a certain thread where it was brought up quite a few times, so I know it’s on your mind, too, along with potheads on celluloid and Shah Rukh Khan-endorsed colorism. If you have your own thoughts to add about aviyal, sambar or rasam relationships, speak.
There are many mutinies within which we can participate; the struggles associated with dating “outside†of the precise group we were born in to, perhaps more than any other uprising, often involve the most upheaval and anguish, even if one’s intended is also a shade of Sepia.
ve are indian. no diworce here.
I can always get boys to do anything for me, coz usually I am the only girl around. Supply – demand, something? 😉
Much better for them to be roused by their kids than to be aroused by them.
bhakshanam = snacks? bhojanam = meals?
You are absolutely correct.
Although I normally protest the presumption that facial hirsutism = sloppiness, I agree here. While he does seem to have had his beard trimmed for the occasion, it has clearly not been growing long enough to fuse smoothly with his sideburns, which you can see that he had before. My guess is, and it’s totally a guess – that he might have been growing the beard for a part in a movie he was shooting, and decided not to shave – it’s only his wedding after all. I mean, I’m sure they are in love and everything, but let’s not kid ourselves. People who keep track of things like that can confirm!
Thanks Anna! But just BTW, do you also email your Mom regularly? My father in India has been reluctant to take up email and prefers to write longhand, so my questions have to wait till my weekly phone call, and I sometimes forget them by that time. While my maternal aunt (‘maami’, I think Tamilians use maami in a slighly different sense) also in India, took up email long ago.
I was taken to a local Ethiopian restaurant by a friend (who was a fan) and I had to politely force-smile my way through an excruciatingly long meal of injera with this-or-that tasteless mush. (i know being veggie limited my options but still, what’s PATRIOT-ACT freedom without at least two quality choices?)
Anyways, it just tasted like dumbed-down southie cuisine to me and the Injera had this devilish property of taking up all available space in my stomach like some freakish, mutant, whole-grain laxative.
Is there a word for a DBD married to an ABD (or in my case Canadian) – and no it wasnt arranged…?
It might not seem like a big deal to ppl but I have lived in Bombay, am a gujju. My husband is a gujju too but his family is from Gujarat. We are worlds apart – which is why the marriage works, me thinks.
:D. Are you in engineering?
Affirmative 😀
I liked Indian food from the moment I first tried it years ago, but I get tired of Indians saying that some restaurant I like is lousy and inauthentic. How do I know? What are good south Indian restaurants in the D.C./Maryland area? in fact, what are the best Indian restaurants in this area? especially Montgmery County? I get so weary of the sneers about my taste (in food).
Pingpong :An Ethiopian friend of mine pointed out that when US companies want to be seen as diverse (like in a recruiting poster), they put in a token African-American, who will almost always be East African:
Unless the African-American is recently arrived from Africa or the parents are, most African-Americans are slightly mixed, many with Native American and some White/Other, which changes the features, Slavery accounts indicate that most Africans were brought into the US from Weat Africa and some central.
Then don’t listen to them. If it tastes good to you, that should be enough.
Ah well! Cham always says it better. 😉
@311- reminds me of a post that A N N A did looong time back. She wrote how she had told her co-workers about a place to get good Indian food but they kept insisting on going to the crappy place nearby.
This post. A quondam co-worker went out of his way to ask ME where to get “good” Indian food near our office. I told them Heritage, AFTER BEING ASKED. That point is important, since after the post, I later got hate mail for ordering white people to go one place instead of the other, as if I had randomly decreed such a thing, with no context or reason for it. I was asked, I swear!
anyone in an ABD boy DBD grl relationship? were there any issues endemic to that kind of relationship that came up?
On the facebook: I’ve never herad the term Aviyal, but I like it. 🙂 [also, I think the facebook is way easier to use than friendster, but this is in part b/c it wasn’t really pitched as a dating network so much when it started to go really wide. As Ennis can attest to, it helps me keep track of tons of acquaintances, birthdays, scrabble games, etc.]
On tradition: While I understand Pravin’s feelings re: keeping traditions, I find that there are other things that are more important to me when looking for a LTR. I’d rather have someone kind-hearted, warm, generous, adventurous who is open-minded to learning more. I think it’s hard to explain cultural traditions, sometimes, but I think there’s something deeply beautiful that can be built between two different “cultures”/families when there’s aviyal relations happening. Just the act of having to explain, and wanting to know, builds a different kind of relationship than when you go through the motions assuming that both of you understand what’s happening.
On within-community dating odds
ANNA, I think this really gets at the heart of things. Growing up, I found most of the so-called “Orthodox” Sikh Punjabi guys I knew were total wingnuts [this is not a statement on the larger Sikh community, nor orthodox Sikh guys — just my immediate peer group]. I must have been about 15 when I realized that a community in which there are relatively few orthodox Sikhs is bad odds. Even worse if you limit it to the U.S., smaller still if you want a Punjabi guy, and even smaller if you want to click along a wide array of metrics (politics, aspirations, attitudes, personalities, tastes, etc.). In away I’m glad because it made me more open-minded about dating and relationships in general and what issues I actually care about more/less. But to that effect, I’d rather date someone of a totally different religious/ethnic background than a very non-Orthodox Sikh.
On food: I love injera, and particularly Ethiopian, but I think a “make it or break it” experience can happen based on where you go. For example, the (one) Ethiopian joint where I live now is godawful. However, Addis in Oakland (61st & Telegraph) is amazing. I could eat doro wat or the chickpea mix they make or their tomato-veggie soup mix + injera all day long. so good.
Also, I have no idea who your Punjabi b/f was ANNA, but I wonder if someone picky about dosa, idli, and sambar (which are 3 of the best things ever, combined with coconut chutney) would be a picky eater in general. I’m with Amit; cooking can be a fun/awesome activity, especially with someone who appreciates a well cooked meal as opposed to TV-dinners. I have no idea how I would go out with someone who was severely limited in their food preferences (e.g. hates ethnic food or spicy food or vegetables or was generally unadventurous).
Parantha vs. Phulka The difference is that a parantha is thicker, flaky, and made with more oil. It can be stuffed, or eaten by itself. When I think “chapati” I think of “phulka” — it’s a bit flatter, but much lower in fat. If someone adds oil, it’s after it has already been cooked. The consistency is drier, also, and for that matter, healthier 🙂 Oh, and I think bhurji + parantha with amb di aachar beats aloo parantha for best Punjabi breakfast, ever, especially in the winter. 🙂
Don’t know if the gender matters as much, but in case it doesn’t, my ABD kundi has been in two such fobulous relationships. Two of my more serious, actually. Very aviyal, in yet another way.
Nope, you are not alone. I love Ethiopian food too as well as the common plate dining experience.
Ardy @287
I believe you are referring to the Bohris. Eating from one plate called the “Thaal” was one of the best aspects of being semi-bohri as a kid. The other good aspect being the quality and taste of the food served on the Thaal………….
No! That’s what was so bullshit! As the pickiest eater EVER, I could have respected that, trust me.
He had gone to boarding school in India and often bragged about how the experience conditioned him to eat ANYTHING, without complaints. This made him great to test my novice-Indian cooking skills on, but it also confirmed that his dislike for Southie food was the serious. 🙁
what? blasphemy! puri & chhole w/ amb di achaar is the best punjabi breakfast
This site gets the general combination, but is off on the details.Also, I add a lot of tomatoes in my variation. Healthy too, if you believe this site.
In terms of a Punjabi breakfast, Aloo parantha is the king when it comes to Paranthas (other common ones are cauliflower, radish and just the plain one). Having said, Puri Chole with Yoghurt and aachar (if made right) are the bomb.
Another good one is the Methi di Roti (Corn bread with Fenugreek) made spicy with some home made makhan and lassi…
I’ve got to stop..I am drooling just thinking about this stuff.
a lot of people of north indian descent turn their nose up at southie food. that leaves more for me.
Anna, do you mean the way it tastes? :p
“317 · Puliogre in da USA: anyone in an ABD boy DBD grl relationship? were there any issues endemic to that kind of relationship that came up?”
Moi – Girly girl from Bombay, boy from Canada. Is that what you mean?
Quick notes:
I like Injera and Ethiopian food. Dukem in DC is good. Someone on this post mentioned the South-Indian food from the cafe at the Bridgewater Temple in NJ. It’s fantastic. Nothing like it in NYC. Though there are a couple of joints on Newark Ave in Jersey City which are good enough and only a PATH-ride away from Manhattan. By the way has anyone here been to the Punjab Deli on Houston between 1st Ave and Ave A? The one that is thronged in almost equal parts by turbaned Sikh cabdrivers and young & sexy White hispsters? Homemade, langar-like vegetarian food! Have a satisfying meal for under 5 bucks. This is the best value in all of Manhattan. And not just for Desi food.
“A quondam co-worker went out of his way to ask ME where to get “good” Indian food near our office. I told them Heritage, AFTER BEING ASKED. That point is important, since after the post, I later got hate mail for ordering white people to go one place instead of the other, as if I had randomly decreed such a thing, with no context or reason for it. I was asked, I swear!”
yes-I see your dilemma. I guess that’s why Indians are not always too forthcoming with suggestions of how to better my Indian dining experience. And then their own tastes differ, as I see here.
Sigh…I am afraid so, I am 39!!!. I had a pair of distant nephews visit me the other day – elder one is 23 and he most definitely called me ‘auntie’ !
I so much prefer “akka” or “didi”…..but I guess that’s vanity!
While I heart Southie food I also have a good appreciation of Punjabi food .Rajama chaawal or kadhi chaawal is amazing comfort food :-).Puri Cholle with Sooji ka Halwa ( Northie version of Rawa Kesari) is to die for
yup.
Yes!! Aloo or gobhi paratha, or puri-aloo-chhole is my favorite too!
pingpong, I missed your earlier comment, but no you’re not alone. I LOVE Ethiopian, especially injera. I also love very strong sourdough bread, and I think the flavor is similar. The first time I had injera I didn’t know it expands in your stomach, so I totally ate my body weight in it and had a tearing stomachache that evening.
ANNA, that’s really unfortunate. Puli, I love Southie food, so we shouldn’t eat together [there would be less for you, haha]. Although I don’t like the sabziaa as much (but the same holds for northie food), so maybe it wouldn’t be a problem. Oh, and for the record, I agree with whoever said that most northie “Punjabi” restaurants suck in the U.S. Wholeheartedly agreed. I am often ashamed that I have to claim affinity of cuisine with most of these places b/c the quality of food is so bad.
Oh, and I have no problem eating with my hands in front of strangers/co-workers/SOs, but it depends on the cuisine. If it’s someone who would be alarmed I always give them a heads up or ask if they would mind/ find it rude, though, just so that I don’t shock or disgust them.
Jeet, I like puri chole but they are soooo heavy. Better at lunch or the afternoon than in the morning. Still, my heart is with plain parantha + bhurji + aachar for b’fast 🙂 Chachaji, the ingredients list for the place you linked is not so bad — I don’t put haldi in my bhurji, but maybe that’s just me… I don’t think I’d ever add milk to the eggs, even if I weren’t allergic. I’ve also never tried it with tomato — do you add them at the end, or scramble them in during the entire process? Whenever I’m at home this is my #1 b’fast request from my mom.
I love mehti parantha (sp?), but only with palak or saag. But you know what I really love? Misi roti. Soooo good.
Runa, Can’t beleive you are only 39. From your posts I thought you were in your 50’s. You are only 1 yr. older than me. Maybe I sound like I am in my 50’s too. Now, I don’t know whether to be elated or depressed.
For the record, my first marriage was aviyal. Second marriage is homogenous dal (we are from same state, same caste, same sub caste). However, he is a DBD, I’m an ABD. All I have to say dal is easy to digest comfort food. Aviyal is a little spicy, and sometime if the ingredients don’t compliment each other, or if the coconut is bad to begin with, it can give you indigestion.
Oh man, gobi parantha makes me gag, as does the shulgum variety! Give me aloo, plain, or nothing at all. You know what else is good? Plain parantha + nimbu aachar.
Oh lifelong , What do I do when I see articles like this? ? Plus I have a 15 year old son and belive me teenagers age you 🙂
But you know what I really love? Misi roti. Soooo good.
My mom is a big fan of that stuff. I like it very much as well but its somewhat of a rare breakfast item. You don’t see much of it especially outside india.
Ethiopian food tastes like “bad” Indian food. It’s mushy concoctions and sour Injera bread equal a bad experience. Yes, I’ve been Addis and a few others in NY & DC and was regretful. Ethiopians feel the same when they eat naan/pulkas/rotis/pooris … they miss the sour taste.
” But you know what I really love? Misi roti. Soooo good.” thats from Camille btw. Forgot to put quotes
Posterity,
I have eaten at the Punjabi Deli on Houston, there is another one on 50th and 10th and there is a great place downtown on Church and Reade called Pakistan tea house. I am not sure if anyone has tried the Sri Lankan place on 1st avenue between 5th and 6th called Sigiri, the food is second the none.
second to none
My mom and nani say this is because it’s sourdough roti that culturally this is somehow seen as a “less special” or “lower class” kind of food [since sourdough implies that it’s… well.. gone sour/off/fermented]. I don’t know if that’s true, just what my mom and nani told me 🙂 That doesn’t stop us from eating it, or me from requesting it. It’s hard to find in restaurants, also.
Man, I had no idea so many people hated Ethiopian. That’s saddening 🙁
In my experience there are two kinds of desis — those who like Ethiopian food and those who don’t. 😉 What I mean is people seem to either love it or hate it. In my family, my brother, sis-in-law, uncle, and I all really like Ethiopian food. (Luckily for me, I live in a part of DC which is generally thought to have the best collection of Ethipian restaurants outside Ethiopia/Eritrea.) We took my parents once when they were visiting, and let’s just say that outing is now referred to within the family as the “Ethiopian food debacle.”
@ Pugliogre – To answer your questions – sort of I guess.
Mainly b/c I miss home. Most of the issues are around that. Home and family – I miss it and them.
But one thing that did come out is the reception within the Gujju community in Vancouver. It was difficult convincing them I wasnt a snob or some ho from Bombay. It was very weird. I think the issues are more around his family accepting into theirs. For some reason they had some preconceived notions about Bombay girls – that are obviously completely unfounded. As I type this I realize how stupid this sounds buy I swear its true.
The other was cultural differences between India and North America. Rather the communities and their notion of culture. Many are so stuck in the culture of India they left behind that they dont realize that India has moved on. It seemed like I was travelling back in past.
Between me and J – its is always difficult balancing indian traditions and wanting to be part of the community. I guess that most ppl here know what I am talking about. Its a juggling act – esp. because sometimes I think – no one in India does this or thinks this way – but being part of the gujju community – you kind of have to go with the flow.
cmae to this discussion when I saw the abhi-ash wedding pic but have stayed on just fascianted, drooling and now raging hungry with the food discussion. Love ALL food, south indian and north indian but have to ask, no bongs here??? no one nostalgic for mom’s fish curry?
Not a bong, but love aloo-posto & lucchhi, or phulkopir dalna, or the wonderful daals with mango, seasoned the Bengali way.
In New York, for mom’s fish curry go to Spicy Minas in Queens.
Brown,
I have heard mixed reviews of both Sigri and Pak Tea House. That’s why I have been hesitant so far. But if you vouch for it, I’ll maybe go.
i am dying to try puri halwa. and a good channa (sans bhatura) holds an equally special place in my heart with the southie food. some of the best channa i have had is from jassi’s in edison – the spicing is just right, and they give some amazing achar. plus, he gives me a free jalebi whenever i go 🙂
runa – you are definitely not in the aunty category to people who are 28 years of age (that would include me). but this aging thing is weird – i don’t really like to even be called akka (not even by little kids) and when my nephew was born last year, i didn’t take to the ‘atthai’ title very well. but i’m resigned to it, at last – if i’m almost 30, i clearly am old enough to be aunty to somebody 🙂
for the record, i love ethiopian, though it’s been a while since i’ve eaten it 🙁
camille @ 318 Re: On within-community dating odds – i gave up a long time ago on the idea of necessarily marrying a desi, much less one from the same region. it’s hard enough just to find a good partner – to restrict those odds by race and ethnicity would be disastrous. plus, i don’t really think it’s necessary, for me – i just want somebody who appreciates the concept and value of culture, no matter what that culture may be.
HMF, i appreciate your confidence in me
luchchi (sp?)