My baby cousin at UCLA still hasn’t forgiven me for joining Facebook. His objection is not that I’m too old for it or that I lessen its “cool factor†with my elderly presence—he just hates the program and apparently I was the last person he knew and cared about, who was not on it. That had more to do with pragmatic causes than most anything else; I was happy on Friendster and consummately preferred it to MyAss or the more “globalâ€/Brazilian Orkut. I didn’t have time to maintain profiles on a plethora of time-sucks. And most relevant of all, I couldn’t be bothered to get an “alumni†email addy from either of the schools I managed to graduate from…and once upon a time, you needed such official stuff to participate in the Facebook-orgy.
Not anymore. And so a few of you began inviting me to join it and I pointedly ignored such requests…until one of you was Facebook-stalking a guy you thought was sooo cute.
“What’s his friendster link?â€, I asked.
“He’s not ON friendster…he’s only on Facebook!â€
“Well, then I can’t see him.â€
“But you just HAVE to see this one picture…I have a feeling you know his friend.â€
“You know how I’ve never been a bridesmaid?â€
“Yeah what does that have to do with anything??â€
“I’m signing up for this bullshit right now, so A) you best marry his ass and B) I best be in some sort of poufy outfit, twitching out of boredom on an altar in a year or three.â€
“Omg, whatever you want, just SIGN UP and so I did. But I didn’t bother uploading a pic or filling out my profile, not for a while. Then, I was asked to write something about social networking and I needed more information about FB, specifically a sense of how intuitive it was to use. I noticed, upon logging in, that I had been “poked†approximately 40 times. I also noticed that several of my far-flung friends were considerably more active and in touch on FB than they were on Fster. This puzzled me until I realized that they were destroying all of their free time defenestrating each other via “SuperPokeâ€, proving their music IQ via some guessing game which was far superior to the one on my iPod and playing Scrabble online via the hyper-addictive “Scrabulousâ€.
Well, I saw her Facebook…and now I’m a believer. I will happily eat the words which initially expressed indifference towards this program. The recent app explosion transformed FB for me, from a site to ignore to one which I am now constantly logged in to…which brings me to this post.
Now that I am spending a ton of time on there, my inner, dilettante-sociologist is hyper-stimulated. There’s so much to discover, like…
- How annoying today’s youths in high school are (incoherent and illiterate comments on group walls)
- How thousands of others also speak shitty Malayalam (via the Ende Malayalam Sucks group)
- How several of you first discovered SM! (via the SM Group, natch)
- How people are utilizing Web 2.0 to create support groups for Inter-desi relationships (!!!)
Here, read all about it. I’ll post the group’s “description” for you:
Aviyal Couples Type: Common Interest – Dating & RelationshipsDescription: This group (also a support group) is for all the desi people that are in a relationship (dating, engaged or married) where your partner is Indian but is from a different state in India or is from a different religion or caste. This type of relationship can’t be called interracial, so it can be called an ‘Aviyal Relationship’
For example: An Indian from Mumbai is in a relationship with an Indian from Bihar or an Indian from Tamil Nadu is in a relationship with an Indian from Kerala e.t.c or an Indian who is Hindu is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Christian or an Indian who is a Jain is in a relationship with an Indian who is a Brahmin e.t.c
* Aviyal – a south indian vegetable curry that has a mix of different vegetables. [Facebook]
I didn’t even realize there was a term for this situation—one I have been in for almost half of my dating life. While I tried valiantly to date Malayalee boys, “just to make it easier†on all 349 people who were potentially involved with such an alliance, I went to a college that had no Malayalee male undergrads and didn’t attend our local (read: more than 100 miles away) Syriac Orthodox church. I was far more likely to encounter Punjabi Sikh guys at U.C. Davis/Fresno/Modesto/Yuba City and predictably, that is what I often dated.
I had been making Aviyal all the way through college and I had been oblivious to it!
Whether by circumstance, i.e. being one of a handful of South Indians at a school dominated by Northies or by choice, i.e. just plain falling for someone, this is a cocktail we will see more and more of, no matter what our respective parents think of such emotional collisions. One of you, who comments regularly, is a Tamil married to a Punjabi; sometimes, the comments which inform me of this detail also contain other bits of information, which illustrate how challenging such a union is. I’m assuming both parties involved are probably Hindu, which makes things nominally easier, but when you add interreligious components to the conflict…sometimes, that is exactly what you get: conflict.
When one of the only Malayalee girls I grew up with got married about a decade ago (she was a bit older than us…because I remember that even her younger brother was two years older than me), it caused quite a stir, since she, a Namboodiri, had fallen in love with a Mallu Christian she had met at school. This was the source of much discussion and concern, as our parents pondered whether this was a harbinger of their own future disappointment.
Years later, I felt compassion for her, once I realized what the “odds†were like…it’s difficult enough finding a match who is Malayalee, finding one who is Mallu and of the same faith narrows the pool considerably—especially when you take caste or in the case of Christianity, multiple denominations in to account. It may seem counterintuitive, since Kerala’s Christians comprise a disproportionate share of Malayalee Americans, but yes, it’s hard to find a suitable boy. My father never forgave the Catholic church for what they did in the 17th century, so the thought of me marrying one was inconceivable. MarThomites were out because they were anti-feminist-Mary-haters who shamelessly chose not to revere the dead. 😉
We were fiercely Orthodox and unlike many Malayalee couples, both of my parents were Orthodox; my mother didn’t “convert†to marry him. So for me, Orthodox it would have to be.
Do you have any idea how many single Orthodox Malayalee boys there are in America, who are over the age of 32?
Approximately two.
I have a Sikh friend who is a few years older than me, who is also single, because he’s rather Orthodox himself, and most Sikh girls he encounters want someone sans beard and turban. One of you posted a NYT Vows link recently, all because the groom was Muslim and the bride was Hindu and yes, I’ll admit my non-existent eyebrows rose heavenwards upon reading it, because that’s what I’m conditioned to do. We are marinating in aviyal, whether we know it or not (pass me the drumsticks, btw…and keep the arbi to your damned self).
I’ll probably end up in an “aviyalâ€-marriage of my own, so I confess that I’m partially motivated to explore this aspect of growing up in the diaspora, out of self-interest. But I also remember a certain thread where it was brought up quite a few times, so I know it’s on your mind, too, along with potheads on celluloid and Shah Rukh Khan-endorsed colorism. If you have your own thoughts to add about aviyal, sambar or rasam relationships, speak.
There are many mutinies within which we can participate; the struggles associated with dating “outside†of the precise group we were born in to, perhaps more than any other uprising, often involve the most upheaval and anguish, even if one’s intended is also a shade of Sepia.
and Ardy, what happened to Nirula’s??
Runa, I think the mistake people make is that they think relationships are somehow going to be easier if they’re not aviyal. All relationships are work, and often hard work. I don’t think the aviyal nature is the only thing that drives this, but it can be a deal-breaker if the expectations/values of each individual are off by a lot. He could be right, it could have been the mix that did it, but I bet there were other things going on under the surface (e.g. different ideas about relating to one another’s families, or sharing space, etc.)
brown, I’ve never been, but I’ll try it out next time I’m in NYC 🙂
Brown – Nah, never lived in Delhi but been there too many times due to a plethora of relatives. You may want to check out this blog called Eating Out in Delhi (eoid.wordpress.com) and a corresponding Orkut community some friends of mine maintain.
And yes, there was a whole chain of dhaba places near kaka and most were quite good. Actually later on Kake had kind of lost it a little.Not been there in a few years now.
absolutely. did you ever get shawarma at arabian nites (which was awesome back when i did meat)? or the gorgeous egg parantha near vikram hotel?
puli, to tweak what fijova said:
give DBD girls a chance, you’d be surprised (hell, they might even pull a divya on you) 🙂
Things may have got better now but a few years back when I asked around, seems like their quality had gone down terribly and they were being hit by the arrival of the American fast foods (which was their USP for a long time in the 80s and early 90s) and thus they were neither the cool place to be nor did they have the best American fast food.
port, again I express my e-love for you.
Portmateau,
Yes absolutely, I have been to the Arabian nights in Vasant Vihar and it was great, I love the paranthas at Vikram Hotel which was luckily enough an all night spot and cheap and all poor students could afford. I had no idea there were so many people from Delhi here.
Growing up in a muslim household – we used thaal at large family or community gatherings. We would divide ourselves into groups of 5 to share a thaal. People at these gatherings actively recruited thaal-buddies – people with ‘decent’ eating habits and preferably with no skin ailments. Yes it can be ikky.
Doesn’t apply to only Bohris. My famly is non-Bohri and our Arab friends also shared thaals – it is considered a bedouin tradition in the middle east.
talking about thaals – I enjoy ethopian food quite a bit. The sourdough like taste of injera works really well with the spicy, rich brown meat gravy. yummmm….
Sepia Mutiny did have meetups at Indian Bread Co AND Kati Roll. Both were during Manish’s stay in the bunker, that’s why you were thinking UB. 😉
Ardy,
It is sad to know about Nirula’s, that was one of my favorite places growing up. Last heard it was being sold but nothing definitive. I am sure with most American chains in India now, people have no interest ir patronising Nirula’s. Although there Indian fast food was equally good.
camille, “you who are so young–where can you have learned all you know about women like me?“
seriously, if i meet you i’ll make a mean cilantro-tomato bhurji. for parantha, though, you’re on your own.
“Camille, Jeet, BariBarsi and the Panjabis here – stop stop stop!!” I can’t control the food monster that you people have unleashed. This discussion is gonna end with me booking a plane ticket to India.
Regarding the Bhindi vs Pindhi issue
camille you are right. Even though the okra is called Bhindi in Hindi, its pronounced “Pindhi” in punjabi kinda like “Pind”. same with “Bhagvan” vs “pughvan”. I don’t know how else to explain it.
“no love for paranthas and a dollop of butter on top?” I do love that stuff but only if the butter is fresh and home made which I don’t get in US and besides I want to live past 50.
Kati Rolls…love em. Everytime I come to NYC, I have to have the achari paneer and chicken kebob…also its interesting that my friends in NYC refuse to go to the midtown kati roll at night, apparently all the Jersey people hang out there. The locals prefer the one in the village.
No discussion of punjabi food can be complete without Makki di roti and Saron da Saag. In my opinion, nothing tops it. Some fresh makki di roti and fresh saag with butter and of course aachar, fresh onions and green chillies. and for dessert, fresh ripe mangoes.
Thats it for me. I am going home.
port, that was lost on me. Is that a SM or a movie reference?
I think Divya is/was a recent, rather saucy commenter on this blog, who got Rob and a few others hot and bothered. But I’m too drained to look up exact links for you. Yenjoy. 😉
hate Makki di roti 😀 tho loove saag
thanks to lifelong for answering the dosa/idli pindi question. i have no idea about any of that, all i know is my mom is a really good cook. 🙂
ak, i hear what you’re saying. i don’t have much relationship experience so i don’t even really know what i want in the long-term. but i would hope that if i found the ideal compatible partner and he happened to not be Telugu, I would have the guts to continue with that. after reading about everyone’s dating trials and tribulations on SM, it sounds pretty damn hard to find a good long-term partner. But actually, I feel like it’s different (easier?) for my generation (I’m only about a decade younger but there seem to be so many differences that it feels like a totally different generation). Of course it also has to do with the fact that I’m in NY, so there is no dearth of desis. But after reading about the trouble the alterna-desi women had with that identity (in other threads, like the Dating White one I think), I don’t feel like it’s as much of an issue for people in my social circle to have multiple identities and be progressive. Then again, maybe it’s because I’ve been lucky enough not to run into the dumbasses who have a narrow idea of who is ‘Indian’ and who is not.
Good point about language. Yeah, trying is definitely appreciated. I guess I am worried about my children ‘rejecting’ my culture/language for that of the other parent, though, because it’s something I’ve seen with with one of my cousins (her parents are both Telugu but her mother grew up in Delhi and so speaks Hindi primarily) who shuns all Telugu people (possibly all southies?) as ‘lame’ and ‘uncool’ but has no problem with north Indians. Ok, I know it’s partly because she’s at that stage in her identity development when all you want is to be cool and ‘fit in’ so to speak. But I don’t know if she’ll ‘grow out of it,’ or why it even bothers me so much, actually.
I have the opposite experience with my extended family–our closest relatives since we came to the U.S. are moving back (yes, actually moving back, they sold their house and everything) to the desh next year, and my cousin on this branch went there for med school too, loves it wery wery much (despite, or maybe because, the weed is so cheap there?) and doesn’t want to come back. My father also waxes poetic about doing the same, and has already moved business interests back there. And DBD cousins and other relatives/really close family friends from both sides of the family are moving over to the U.S., creating a larger extended family network that I actually talk to.
hee, i asked my mother the other day if she thinks premarital sex is wrong (one of the few other times we’ve talked about sex is when she said that i should wait till marriage because you can have sex and enjoy even into your 60s!). the answer, of course, was yes. she couldn’t really give me an answer for why other than ‘that’s just the way it is,’ ‘that’s how all indians are’ (my response: oh yeah, that’s why there’s over a billion of us, right?), and finally ‘if you have sex no one will marry you!’ i’ve made it abundantly clear to my parents that, no, i’m not having an arranged marriage to some computer engineer from guntur. so i think they’ve accepted that i’ll be dating at some point in the future (after my education is finished, of course). but of course they think the only point to dating would be to find a husband, not to have fun. so i asked my mother if she doesn’t think sex is an important part of a marriage. her: yes me: so don’t you think you should be able to see before marriage? her: see what? me: um, if it’s, uh, good? (this was awkward) her: no! vy are you talking about marriage, dating, sex-u? first finish college, go to medical school (but of course), finish your studies! then you can talk about marriage!
Oooh, now I remember. She’s the one who thought the black men in the Intel ad were hot. Got it!!
What about the ultimate Punjabi dish, bukhara(goat)? The very mention of it to a non-desi, aside from Persians and Arabs, elicits an odd and almost repulsed reaction, but I love it-even though it can be a bit bony with minimal meat. Also, keema(beef)- which is a bit of a taboo in India, specifically Hindu communities- is a favourite of Punjabis(both Sikhs and Muslims).
camille, thanks for the sympathy. sniffle.
nala – my mother once told me getting raped is the worst thing that can happen to me – not because of the trauma, but because i wouldn’t be a virgin before marriage – i.e. that’s the only way i could imaginably have for sex pre-marriage. that about says it all… and i wouldn’t sweat the dating – you’ll figure it out as you go along 🙂
Love your family already!
premarital sex
The notion of premarital sex amongst desis outside of india is so warped. Sorry – that came out wrong. I mean, I know indians in India are doing it – my friends I know who certainly “tried it on” before making a long term commitment to it. And yet, here it is totally opposite. There is so much hoo-ha over it. Perhaps its more of an auntyji view – I dont know.
As an DBD, I wouldnt think of sex as premarital or postmarital. It assumes that you are going to get married. What if you dont want to – or dont want to with the same person.
It seems yet again, that India or most/part of it has moved on.
fijova, I don’t know what part of India you’re talking about–the Delhi socialite circle, perhaps? I know my relatives in rural Andhra Pradesh have most certainly not ‘moved on.’ Nor have most of the villagers there developed this amazingly progressive attitude that you’re talking about, them being poor and sh*t out of luck.
hi brown. one of my best friends went to college there.
@ 466
This brought back memories of a conversation I had with my mom. It was while she was convincing me about the benefits of getting married while in your early 20’s:
Sex is better when your body is young! Appa and I used to have so much more fun then.
Thud (my head hitting the table as I faint.)
I’m really late to this party but had so much fun reading all your posts that I had to contribute …
Even if you are from the same language, religion, caste, sub-caste and (gasp!) gothra you can feel like you are in an aviyal relationship (btw, my fav tam food) My hubby & I are dbds, met here and fell in love, parents were thrilled and then (mainly his) not so thrilled with the gothra thing … but the differences are quite a lot. I grew up in Bombay in a very cosmopolitan surrounding, barely knowing enough Tamil to pass (my dad’s lifelong sorrow), my mom barely knew all the traditions that were required for our wedding and my mil didn’t tell her because she thought as a fellow Tambram she would know! Now that my fil & mil are here staying with us, I realize the differences more clearly … in some ways it would have been easier had I been a Maharashtrian, fewer expectations …
As for desi parents wanting abds to marry within your language etc. etc. that really weird …. most urban parents I know back home (and remember I stayed in India till I was 26 and still go home for a month every year) wouldn’t care about language or caste – religion might be harder though it is usually most problematic if it involves a Hindu marrying a Muslim, even that has been overcome if the couple are determined yet respectful of their parents. In fact, the easiest way (in India at least) to get your parents to agree to a groom/bride of your choice is date, find your perfect mate, keep your relationship quiet, get a bit old (31 is pushing it for boys, 29 for girls) and then tell your parents that you will only marry this person … at this point, they are so relieved to get you married that all you get is a ‘Thank god!’
I wonder if this is worth explaining…oh, here goes…
Spoken Punjabi has lost the following sounds (which still exist in Hindi): ‘bh’ (like in ‘bhindi’), ‘Dh’ (like in ‘Dhol’), ‘gh’ (like in ‘ghar’), ‘dh’ (like in ‘dharm’), ‘jh’ (like in ‘jhaanjhar’).
The ancestor of Punjabi had those sounds, and WRITTEN Punjabi still uses the letters representing those sounds…but in SPOKEN Punjabi, those sounds were replaced by ‘p’ (so ‘bhindi’ becomes ‘pindi’), ‘T’ (so ‘Dhol’ becomes ‘Tol’), ‘k’ (so ‘ghar’ becomes ‘kar’), ‘t’ (so ‘dharm’ becomes ‘tarm’), and ‘chh’ (so ‘jhaanjhar’ becomes ‘chhaanjar’). BUT IT’S NOT SO SIMPLE….Punjabi introduced TONES into those words where this sound shift occured…that’s why Punjabi is alone among Indian languages in being a tonal language. Because of those tones, the word ‘pindi’ (bhindi) is pronounced differently than ‘pind’ (village)…and the word ‘kar’ (ghar) is pronounced differently than ‘kar’ (to do).
Sorry for ruining a good food discussion. Carry on.
I can’t do the common plate experience. Unless it’s just shared bread. I do not like to do the shared dessert thing. So forget the Moroccon shared plate thing.
You know what I love and I have noticed Indians seem split about – Persian food. I LOVE good Persian kabobs and BArgs.
Well, I’m sure your psychiatrist is happy you had that conversation.
Not at all! Thanks for a succinct explanation of things, Amitabh!
And for all the multitudes of Tamil speakers here at SM – please, does the word ‘paneer’ mean something in Tamil, and if so, what does it mean. I just have to know. Thank you!
chachaji, Unfortunatley my limited Tamil does not rise to the occassion. The nearest I can find is on this link : Search page for “pannir” and check the 5th entry .Though since I do not know the context of the original discussion ,I may be completely wrong !
“Panneer” means rose water, the stuff the girlies spray you with as you walk into a Tamil wedding, which in 1980s Tamil movies used to be a place the rose-water-sprinkling heroine met the hero who just walked in to the mandapam to attend his friend’s wedding, where the hero stops in his tracks on being sprinkled and the two stop and stare woodenly at each other and the camera zooms in to each of them and the theme song rises to a melodramatic crescendo. Or if it’s a comedy scene, the girl may see the hero and lose control of the metal jar holding the panneer, which goes flying and injures the hero on the forehead with a suitably humorous clang, which photogenic wound the girl tries to wrap up using a strip of cloth torn from her dupatta while the hero stares into her eyes and the camera zooms in to each of them and the theme song rises to another melodramatic crescendo. THAT is panneer.
Panneer soda is rose-water-flavored carbonated water, also known as “goli soda” because the bottles have spherical glass stoppers like marbles (“goli”) in a slightly widened neck, not metal crown stoppers or plastic twist caps. To open one, you quite literally bang your palm down onto the bottle’s head, forcing the sphere in against the pressure into the widened neck cavity. (I’d really like to know how they get it back up again after filling the bottle). Anyway here’s a pic of a goli soda that someone took.
Or you could join the church of the so called FSM. (Flying Sphagetti Monster) that transcends all culture…
ps: on a different note, I wonder how many religious people would not consider an atheist for a partner…
I’m definitely a culinary barbarian with a paneer addiction, so backtracking to the original post I’d say that the odds of meeting a compatible desi in my country/continent are astronomical at best. In my circle of desi acquaintances and family members both ‘aviyal’ and interracial marriages are common and certainly not frowned upon. As for me well frankly I’d love to experience a desi man(it gets so old to explain aspects of Indian culture and confused desi experiences over and over again) but have a feeling that religion seems to be a major obstacle, as I’m not religious & very sceptical – and the impression seems to be that most desis(especially DBD’s) are quite the opposite. My BFF got lucky and is happy with a DBD guy, but the succes of that I think depends on your own degree of assimilation.
Love them and also MOETs is around there too? havent been back in 8 yrs but planning to go this december and get completely STUPID!!!
pingpong, you mean the dream scenario that has been running in my mind – i in my pavadai-thavani (half-saree) spraying pannir on him in his polo with upturned collar, at the entrance of a country club on long island – is outdated?? sigh 😉
as for religion – it seems that a lot of people are either not so religious, or are tolerant/accepting of someone who is not. i think it’s mostly parents who have issues with lack of religiosity – my mother is vexed that i am indifferent to hindu rituals – i know that that vexation could easily turn into downright disapproval when it comes to the issue of a son-in-law. honestly, i think it’s just as terrible to judge people for their atheism/agnosticism as it is to judge them for their religious beliefs.
Puliogre #473,
That is great to know, I haven’t met anyone from Hansraj here since I have been here. Do you know which year did your friend graduate? Undergrad in India is three years and I was out in 1995.
Runa,
Did having an aviyal relationship complicate things? in some ways yes. He never understood my culture, or respected it. Never wanted to celebrate Hindu holidays, like Diwali.(he was Hindu DBD, from a different part of India!!) He only wanted to celebrate Christmas. Like I said, the marriage started with a bad coconut to begin with. (pun intended)
(auntie voice on)If only I had the wisdom that I have now then, things might have been different. (auntie voice off).
Nala, though, I am ABD, my kids speak in Telugu. (thanks to Chinnari Chitti Geethalu DVD’s and constant coach from my mom.)If it’s important to you, you will pass it on to your children. Don’t worry. Be happy.
Spoken Punjabi has lost the following sounds (which still exist in Hindi): ‘bh’ (like in ‘bhindi’), ‘Dh’ (like in ‘Dhol’), ‘gh’ (like in ‘ghar’), ‘dh’ (like in ‘dharm’), ‘jh’ (like in ‘jhaanjhar’).
As a note: Written Punjabi (Gurmukhi) doesn’t have letters representing those sounds you mentioned that are used in Hindi. The ch in chaanjar has a letter in gurmukhi where as the jh in jhaanjhar doesn’t. Gurmukhi’s letters represent the sounds that exist in spoken Punjabi. Granted Punjabi spoken from region to region will vary, but the script does represent the spoken language.
Ok back to talking about food and dating!
My favorite breakfast when visiting my nani would be fresh aloo paronthey, homemade butter, homemade dahi, amb da achaar, and a fresh mango shake (not lassi – milkshake) mmmmmmmmm
And I’m totally a wh0re for dhabas when I go back to the motherland.
port, that movie is so sad 🙁 But I love the hat-tip to Garbo, so I can’t complain. If we meet, we can mix up all sorts of tasty desi food and have our own tiffin-style picnic!
As a matter of clarity, I would like to say that makki di roti should only be eaten with saag or palak paneer! [ok, I’m being a food freak, I apologize. I just hate makki di roti by itself. Maybe it tastes good with chili]. Sikander, I hate bukhara — the flavor is way too strong/gamy. Pravin, I like Iranian food, and I also like shared plates 🙂 BUT, that depends on who I’m eating with. I know this sounds mean, but I’m not going to eat a shared plate with someone with suspect hygiene. pingpong, your explanation of “paneer” is making me totally crave Rooh Afza.
BariBarsi, I think I just mis-transliterated okra, to be honest. In my head I was saying it “bhindi.” I have to double check my spelling… I have a feeling that it’s spelled with a “bh” (aspirated b), not with a “ph” (aspirated p) character. Amitabh, I haven’t heard people drop the sounds you mentioned except among ABDs… I still hear all those sounds when I’m in Punjab, and when I’m at my parents’ house. Maybe it’s regional? Or maybe we’re [ABDs] just lazy? (if I get lazy with my pronunciation my parents tease me and make me repeat the word until I do it properly)
nala, I think this depends more on the decisions you make with your partner, esp. re: how you’re going to raise your kids (for the record, I also think this applies to the atheist question). But hopefully, if someone’s entering into aan aviyal relationship they’re doing it because they’re willing to embrace ALL of you — i.e. your traditions, languages, religion, etc. Oh, and re: premarital sex, if you don’t mind my asking, how old are you, again?
well, the guy lives in hong kong. he graduated in around 1999
Even quite a few of my DBD cousins and uncles and aunts are not religious. Most of them follow traditions, but more out of cultural respect than any real religious thing. They like discussing Hindu stories more from a philosophical POV. So they do not get bent out of shape when we do not follow them. Actually I do not see that much of a difference in religious upbringing between my ABD and DBD cousins. I am a special case as I was an agnostic since I was 7. And i NEVER believed in Santa Claus. And DEFINITELY NEVER THE TOOTH FAIRY.With Santa, there was at least this sentiment that it would be cool if he were real. I never got the appeal of the tooth fairy.
At least among non-Brahmin Hindu families that I am familiar with, there doesn’t seem to be this concept that if you do not pray to God regularly , you are not a true Hindu like you see in Christian families where someone will proclaim “i became a Christian last year. I was not true to the Lord before that.”. I think the sentiment is similar to Jewish families where secular Jewish people would like to maintain their Jewish cultural identity, but may be agnostic.
Whenever Anna decides to put a post on Indian Mothers in Law, I can see the comment page exploding.
Runa-ji and Pingpong: Thank you! So ‘pannir’ does mean something in Tamil! And what is more, there is a ‘pannir soda’. So maybe that’s the joke in ‘paneer dosa’!
But more seriously, I also saw in the link Runa-ji provided, that ‘panniruvar’ means ‘twelve disciples’. From here it occured to me that, if ‘panniruvarisamy’ were a word, it could mean ‘The lord of the twelve apostles’, i.e. Christ. Now this is pure speculation, I don’t know any Tamil whatsoever (sadly). But I can’t help wondering all the same.
Are you sure? I don’t know Hindi well enough to know what the sounds are like or to compare alphabets, but I’m pretty certain that there are all the sounds Amitabh wrote in Gurmukhi. At least there are definitely the sounds that he mentioned in the context of words. There’s a few that are rarely used in contemporary Punjabi, but they’re all in the alphabet nonetheless.
Man, what I wouldn’t give for mango lassi 🙁 [not a shake, I know, but I love mango lassi]
Wow!! I am so fashionably late here. I finish a chapter in no internet, no TV setting and that’s when the best party is thrown. I’ve outlined my heritage before – I am the product of aviyal marriage àla Arundhati. And while I had some really crappy experiences because of the inability of people to deal with “aviyal-children” who can’t be neatly put into a single identity box, I am so glad that my parents are from different everything. (zuni, you wanted to know a bit more about me) The range of food, culture, religion available to me and my brother was really the best thing ever (better than being at a candy store – you could pick and choose and experiment and have tons of relatives for all kinds of information) and for the most part I’d like to think that we can adjust to almost any culture to enjoy all the fun/progressive/intellectual stuff. My parents are liberal and haven’t had a problem with me dating white or tam bram (pre-marital sex is a no-no of course – for them I mean). Granted I find that people who are very particular about their identity (such as the tam-bram gentleman) are unable to reconcile with my mixed heritage and somewhere in some dark part of their brain always see me as “impure”. As for me and my brother respecting our parents culture – well we can both speak Malayalam, and Bengali and also Marathi cause we were in Nagpur for a while, I picked up Tamil while in Chennai ( which is now forgotten, but I still understand 80% of the conversation). I am comfortable singing hymns and doing arati – though I am an agnostic atheist, unless someone shoves religion down my throat, I see no harm in participating in rituals -especially because it always involves good food and colourful clothes. Which means I am comfortable with erachi and paneer-makhani and I love my machcher jhol (Bengali fish curry). I don’t think I can ever become a vegetarian though!! My problem is meeting other aviyal people my age (which is 26/27). Every one is generally a decade younger to me.
Interesting incident from yesterday:
A long distant relative/friend of mom’s was at a party/desi shindig and met some woman who is looking for a girl for a very nice boy, but the only problem is that the boy’s parent’s are aviyal (half christian-half hindu, no idea about states). Our relative jumps with joy and says ‘I know only one other aviyal couple and they also have a daughter but apart from being aviyal, she is also very modern, liberal and independent’. Reply was, well she is aviyal, they tend to be that way, we don’t have much choice, will she/her parents be interested in this match. The message was relayed to my mother, who is sweet enough to never proceed without explicit sanction from me – so I am curious who is this aviyal in NYC? What say SM? Do I have your blessings to say yes and see how this pans out?
My favorite is sweet lassi (without mango). Ah those wonderful summer days in India. 🙂
Guatham, my posting name notwithstanding, I understand your preference. It hasn’t been a good decade for the “abrahamic religions”.
The “disciples” part is definitely context-specific here. It literally translates as “12 people”. “Oruvar” means “one person with respect”, “Oruvan” means “One male without respect”, “OruvaL” means “One female without respect”. “Iruvar” means “2 people” (as in the movie of the same name referring to MGR and Karunanidhi). “Moovar” is 3 people, which leads to the contrived pun that if The Three Musketeers were adapted into Tamil, the D’Artagnan equivalent could be named “Shekar”, making them together the “Moovar and Shekar”.
Anyway, “panniruvar” is “12 people”. The assumption in the definition “12 disciples” is that any collection of 12 people must be 12 disciples of somebody or something! Which is possible I suppose, because apparently “aruvathimoovar” which literally means “63 people” is used to refer to a set of 63 Shiva devotees called the Nayanmars.
Therefore in Tamil Nadu, one person could be anybody, two persons must be politicians, and 12 or more people must be disciples or devotees of somebody.
The Tamil word for 10 is
. The Tamil word for 2 is
. From the equation 12 = 10 + 2, the Tamil word for 12 is paththu + rendu = (by the rules of sandhi or conjugation) panni-rendu.
sweet lassi is also amazing 🙂 When I think of mango lassi I think of going out — when I was little my parents only let us have soda if we ate out, and we were only allowed mango lassi (probably because of the amount of work it generates for my mom) when we went to Indian restaurants. We knew that if the food was going to suck, at least we could love our lassi. I miss it [lassi] a lot 🙁
Curry and Rice Girl, why not check it out? If anything, it could be fun to meet someone who may have a similar experience 🙂