From Fuerza Dulce comes this video clip of a contestant trying to get on VH1’s Flavor of Love:
I sputtered. I laughed. I frowned. Honestly – I’m confused. It’s a pretty bizarre mish-mash of orientalist cliches, done in a ham handed way. It’s neither hilarious nor completely unfunny, although she does act like she’s in on the joke.
Here’s the question – is Orientalism OK when we do it? Or does one desi’s 15 minutes of fame in brownface make the rest of our lives harder by not just reinforcing these tired tropes, but making them seem OK?
cause whytes are the largest ethic group in the US (to the best of my knowledge). in the absence of any other information the probability of the person being whyte is highest out a random sampling of americans. although, your right. it is a lame assumption on my part.
how about “im from new jersey….btch!”
i was wondering that. sometimes desi guys (if he was desi) have a stronger set of pre-conceived notions re desi women.
i just don’t like the connotation of submissive – i.e. unequal.
meh…i preffer the slightly “submissive veriety”. im kind of the same way, so its a good way for both parties not to get run over at any point..
For the record – the guy who I quoted is Puerto Rican
yeah, but a desi dude in the US probably spent enough time interacting with more agressive desi grls to know the difference. although, that might not always be the case if he grew up in a bumpkin small town with 3 desis in it.
well…thats just too easy then…
He didn’t really fit any of the stereotypes, but regardless – I don’t really roll like that. I think he just hadn’t had much exposure to any desi girls that way. That’s not an excuse, but he definitely has no excuse now.
but what is your definition of submissive? what i mean is, the alternative of aggressive does not have to be submissive. because i thinking compromising, cooperating is good, and does not have to be in a submissive way.
this geography might have something to do with it, but i think a bigger influence is seeing the dynamics between one’s (desi) parents that plays a huge part in how they want the dynamics of their own relationships to be – either similar to or different than from their parents’ example.
oh..thats my point. the fact that he doesnt fit into any stereotypes, and then you impose those on him would make him realze how lame it is to use stereotypes.
hmm…i always thought submissive kind of meant comprimising and cooperating, giving a little, etc….what does it mean to you?
I also think that submissive stereotype is part of why non-brown guys dig desi girls, when the reason cited for them digging the girl is for her “exotic-ness”.
wouldnt want to read too much into guys tastes. most guys will pretty much tag anything, and then come up with all sorts of explainations for their tastes. wouldnt put any stock in the explainations..
I wonder if giving Carlos Mencia his own TV show is a conspiracy to undermine the arguments for diversity. He is the unfunniest comedian on TV. He has also gotten away with some serious anti-Muslim shit.
When I refer to the stereotype placed on desi girls I have more of a stereotypical devdasi type girl in mind – No desire but to take care of her man, whatever he says goes, man-worship.
In everyday usage, I think being “submissive” is relative and depends on the circles you role in. Some people just prefer to not be the one leading the horizontal mambo. But if you roll with a BSMD crew, submissive will mean something very different.
wait…i wasnt even talking about the drty stuff. i just meant in a relationship. giving a bit. being slightly less agressive, etc…
Earlier I was referring to in and out of the bedroom – in the relationship itself, and not just sexually.
but as far as my last comment… I guess you can see where my mind is.
right, i don’t think the alternative to aggressive is submissive. when i think of submissive, i think of ‘submitting’ regularly to the other’s demands/ways – i.e. a pattern develops where one partner’s voice, desires, goals are consistently subjugated to those of the other partner. and i can see the attraction of this set-up to many – if your partner is submissive, it naturally decreases the scope for conflict, disagreement etc. but in this vein, it also means that one person will be unequal, the lesser partner in the relationship. on the other hand, i think compromise/cooperation means that, at the very least, the wishes of both will be taken into account. it may not be the easier path, but i think it benefits both in the end.
Puli, I think when people say they like that Indian girls are “submissive” because of their “cultural norms” they are talking about someone who will basically be a doormat and do anything for her guy. I think that’s very different from a partnership, or a relationship in which you both are willing to compromise, be chill/considerate, etc.
Also, FD, I don’t think the BDSM comment was “dirty” — you’re right, “submissive” has a very explicit and very different meaning in that context 🙂 But, by extension, that’s ideally a relationship into which the sub has willingly engaged in, also, you know?
For the record – the guy who I quoted is Puerto Rican
Boriqua baby thank you.
Puli, I think when people say they like that Indian girls are “submissive” because of their “cultural norms” they are talking about someone who will basically be a doormat and do anything for her guy
Just play it safe, and assume every Indian girl is the exact opposite of what the stereotypes say.
I am like this only
Pravin, thanks for posting. This was really hilarious.
ANNA, please check out the videos by the guy who posted the above video. He has worked on a couple more desi videos – and the hit count and comment section by non desis is hugeeee… Worth a post on how desi songs are becoming popular on youtube?
Lord, I cannot remember the last time I laughed that much after watcthing that Chiranjeevi song. I bet most people who watch that clip and the more famous dancing midget clip have no idea the guys in those clips (Chiranjeevi and Rajnikanth) are the two biggest stars from the south.
the other way to play it safe is not to assume anything at all 🙂
Sometimes all it takes is a simple “Hello”. That’s all it took for my husband and his brother.
It seems as if stereotypes truly abound on reality TV. And VH1 is profiting from it. On reality shows, desi women are definitely doing better than desi men. There has been a desi man on almost every “nerd” reality show. Talk about stereotyping. Regarding Pradeep, he just needs to loosen up. Since “Flavor of Love” is all about stereotypes, Farah will probably get chosen for the show (unfortunately).
There was this bitch on one of the Apprentices who certainly did not do the Indian community any favors with her drama and using her religion as an excuse not to wear a mascot getup.
The Sweet 16 brats. ughh.
One of the Brown folk on reality tv I didn’t mind watching on reality tv was Aanchal on VH1 – she had her issues with her own desi-osity, but no one tried to “white her up” or fit her into a desi stereotype for the most part.
i love you for posting this…..is it missing music? ha
that’s certainly a way to play it, but I wouldn’t call it being safe.
HMF, how is it not safe? I think ak’s advice is right on. Better to go in w/o expectations of stereotypes and you can adjust accordingly, whereas it’s harder to restructure your game if you’ve already put your foot in your mouth.
HMF, i would also like to know how this is not safe? even assuming the complete opposite of the stereotype, as you suggested, you could end up offending somebody who fits the stereotype and/or is of a traditional/conservative type…
Yes it is better to go in w/o expectations, but it’s even better to assume the opposite.
Let’s take an example, let’s name a stereotype that afflicts Indian women : they are quiet and submissive.
If you make no assumptions about her quietness
If you assumpe the opposite, that she’s wildly outspoken about every possible thing.
It’s the same reasoning as “prepare for the worst, hope for the best”
Hmm. maybe it wasn’t clear, the assuming the opposite is internal, you don’t walk up to her and say, so “I bet you’re a loudmouth that complains about everything..”
I’m confused! Are you saying that : The existing stereotypes about Indian women are better than the reality ?( submissive = best , assertive= worst)?
The existing stereotypes about Indian women are better than the reality ?( submissive = best , assertive= worst)?
I make no claim on the overall merits of one perceptio over the other, I’m saying, given you subscribe to a certain metric, it’s best to assume the exact opposite.
no, that’s not what i’m saying – even if you internally assume the opposite, what if you then make some kind of gesture, statement etc that is based on that assumption – it’s plausible that she would be offended – e.g ‘i’m not that kind of girl’
If you make no assumptions about her quietness
but you are going to preferences here, not assumptions. in both cases, you should be equally shocked or not shocked, irregardless of whether you like it or not. basically, the individual will inform you as to her ways and ideas and you should be prepared for anything that comes. as for you liking it, well, that’s a different story.
basically, the individual will inform you as to her ways and ideas and you should be prepared for anything that comes.
I don’t disagree with this, but I just go the extra step and assume it’s the opposite of what the preference is. Usually when you assume the ‘worst’, and it’s not the case, the person you assumed won’t be too offended, its the inverse of that which usually offends.
ie if I assumed a girl was submissive and she wasn’t – offensive if I assumed a girl was more assertive about things, but she wasn’t – doubtful she’d be too offended.
i do see your point, though you never know with people these days – even assuming aggressiveness could put you out of the running! these days, i don’t assume anything, but i am completely prepared for the worst – which frightens me, because sometimes i think i’m liable to end up with any guy who is just not an ass 😉 hopefully, i’ll get a little more than that…
I still stand by ak. Better to have ZERO expectations (in either direction) 🙂 I think we’re all saying variations of the same thing, though.
Kabir and Guru Nanak managed to do that, so why can’t we? 😉 :p
well, I think so too, because the “opposite expectations” aren’t some kind of morbid fascination with doing harm to yourself, it’s just preparing for the worst really.
Err. didnt they also start religions ?
Not Kabir, AFAIK.
Flavor Flav is a modern minstrel show… I always hated him even in the early days of Public Enemy, and actually a lot of his peers hate him now too cuz of this stupid show… I just hope this desi aunt jemima doesnt make it to the show as white people and black people socialized by the institution of christianity, a biased and racist eurocentric curriculum in their schooling, and an mtv owned program for black ppl (BET) would have a field day…