It’s been an adjustment, to experience this website’s growth and witness our readership change. People leave, others join, many lurk. While I miss some of our now-absent personalities who were prolific with their pondering (Punjabi Boy, Jai Singh, DesiDancer and Espressa come to mind), I’m thrilled about our new commenters, who are expanding our discussion and bringing their unique points of view to our cacophonous, rowdy, online adda. I’m especially looking at our first-gen contributors, like Runa and Malathi, because for stories like the one I’m trying to blog, I think their perspective is invaluable, for helping us find nuance and context. What I’m trying to say is, HELP.
Al Mujahid for Debauchery left this on our news tab:
Unbelievable. Pakistani actor Moin Akhtar (a muhajir/Indian origin himself) plays Hyderabadis from India in blackface in this ‘comedy’ show.
Wait, WHAT? And here is where the DBDs come in, because I don’t understand the clip below or know who these actors are, and as I’ve stated before, I like to get as much information as possible before I get my outrage on– and believe me, I could rage about actors in blackface.
What on earth is going on? And would someone who watches desi tv please tell me that this an uncommon practice? I fast forwarded through the clip, but I don’t get the greasy, huge-black-glasses-equipped, buck-toothed character, and by “don’t get”, I mean my spider sense is tingling. What, if anything, do all of you know?
I think I managed to avoid any feelings of outrage over the treatment of south indians in the north indian imagination by growing up in Hyderabad, a city of south indians who speak Hindi. I speak much better Hindi than Telugu (but am South Indian) and in all the time I lived there, I only encountered one person who could not speak Hindi. But, since we all speak “bad” Hindi and make fun of ourselves, no one else can make fun of you and make you feel bad. Hyderabadis are actually quite proud of their bastardized Hindi/Urdu. Also, Hyderabadis are often transplants from other parts of the country, north or south, who come to think of themselves as mostly Hyderabadi and thereby blurring the lines and heirarchies. Certainly Hyderabad has seen its share of communal violence, but frequently being Hyderabadi trumps any other regional or religious affiliations people might have.
I agree the blackface is offensive, but I stopped watching and just listened to them talk, and it was actually quite comforting and reminded me of home.
desishiksa, your commentary has been sorely missed on this thread. good to see you back.
can you set Manju straight – he’s implying that he had three bris in #197 – being sore and all – please confirm that that is medically impossible as well as religio-culturally incorrect. Of course, he says three parties, but still. 🙂
Well, i gave my mohel a lot of material to work with. don’t believe all the stereotypes about southies…or jews.
Chachaji –thank you 🙂 I have been lurking occasionally, not totally gone.
Reminds me of the joke about how they make your foreskin into a wallet after the bris, which is nice, because if you rub it, it turns into a suitcase.
Perhaps if Manju is hung like a sharpei it would require several procedures to get the job done…
First of all, as a fellow hydro ABD, I can attest to the spot-on accuracy of the impressions. In fact their Urdu skills brought chilling memories of me sitting in my house and hearing uncles arguing over pointless things. The black-face was tasteless, but honestly I guess it didn’t offend me as much. As first generation hyderabadi urdu speaker in the states, I’m used to the occasional ridicule that befalls us from pakistani urdu speakers (basically my friends in college). In fact, when I was taking Urdu classes at college, I remember my poor professor having a heart attack when she realized that I didn’t know that in proper urdu there is no such thing as Mere-ko. Anyway, I have a pakistani connection as well. Most of my mother’s family moved from hyderabad to pakistan after partition. They still kept their hydro roots in their new home. In fact there is a hyderabadi enclave in karachi that is known as “hyderabad colony.” Although my younger cousins have become more “pakistani” than their migrating parents, they still cling on to a lot of tradition. Indeed, pakistani’s hold a few negative stereotypes about hyderabadi muhajirs, ie our colloquial urdu. But there tend to be plenty of positive stereotypes as well. From our kick ass biryani, kaatti daal, extravagant gold jewelry, and the infamous “juuk ke salaam.” By the way, another plus of being hyderabadi is the automatic assumption from my pakistani friends that i’m successful. Hyderabadi= doctor. In fact when I tell a pakistani that i’m hyderabadi, they ask, whether or not I’m a doctor. I answer, no my friend, not yet, I’m just in medical school. 🙂
You know what South Indians don’t give a shit, remember TN is the only state where milestones (real white stones on the highway) are marked sans devanagiri in Tamil/English. There is a clear craving to be “hindish/bollywoodish/n.Indianish”, consider peopl;e from Orissa, KA who’s film industry is maligned or non-existent and how they perpetuate a need to be “asssimilated” by speaking/watching hindi
I’m picking up on a level of pain and marginalisation here on the part of some South Indians, that I never knew (the extent) of. If people have made their own brothers and sisters feel this way, that is really sad. I do remember once being in Bangalore, on a tour bus, and this one idiot kept saying ‘PLAY HINDI SONGS!!!’ Other than a few of us, everyone on that bus was South Indian. The bus driver relented and put in Hindi songs the whole way…I didn’t say anything, and subjectively I guess I enjoyed the Hindi songs more than the Kannada songs that were on before, but I also felt there was something really wrong with that whole scene, and I felt kind of bad about it.
That being said, if I may humbly offer a few observations to our South Indian friends…things about your cultures (in general) that I find hard to relate to (these are just comments, obviously your cultures do not exist to please me)…basically the conservatism, the lack of a “fun” or enjoy-life mentality…even at weddings, there’s no alcohol, no meat, little music (and whatever there is is classical). And I know I’m going to get skewered here…please don’t kill me…I find the hospitality in south Indian homes is (in general) sometimes less than in the north. A lot of silences, formality, a look of relief that you’re not staying for dinner…I’m not trying to make enemies here…can we discuss this openly and without hostility? I realise these are crude stereotypes and there are a lot of exceptions…on all sides. I also realise that these observations are limited to upper-caste Telugus and (Indian)Tamils I’ve interacted with in the USA, and not people in India. I’m well aware that working-class and rural Tamil culture knows how to get its party on.
Man, I hope I don’t regret posting this…
Very interesting conversation, just thought I would chip in with my 2 cents here. As a Telugu DBD who used to hang out with a lot of Maharashtrians (west Indians? 🙂 ) and Gujaratis ( west/north?), I must say that we got along pretty fine. It may have helped that I know Hindi, but I have never faced any discrimination/negative comments of the sort mentioned here. Of course, this is my personal experience. I think people in India are slowly getting rid of these stereotypes, since the knowledge economy is putting lots of northies in South India, and lots of southies in North India, etc. I think that as time goes by, these stereotypes should disappear, as they are mostly based on ignorance (I hope).
On a side note, as a guy who did my undergraduate degree in Chennai, I did hear from my friends that there was a fair bit of antagonism between the Telugu and Tamil students in certain colleges. I wonder what to make of that! 😮
The other thing I liked about the impressions was the way he used his hands while talking. Not a Hyderabadi thing per se but very typically south indian gestures. Also like the word “kathe”, there is no equivalent in english or proper hindi/urdu that I know of but it’s very useful to indicated you are repeating something someone else said. Like air quotes, but less annoying.
My mom always tells this story about how my dad used to say “nakko” for “no” in Delhi and get blank stares and she would get all embarrassed because she had no idea what he was saying either.
I find the hospitality in south Indian homes is (in general) sometimes less than in the north.
but do you think it is because you are not “of their culture”? i.e., you don’t think that a southie would feel the same in a northern home? in any case, the stuff you are talking about is pretty innocuous. seem to be different social scenes in terms of what is, or isn’t, acceptable. being shit-faced-drunk is OK in scandinavia, but unseemly in italy. again, to reiterate:
1) i think there is a perception by north indians that they are better looking than south indians. i think a lot of south indians agree. whether it is objectively true or not (using the common indian metrics i think it is obviously true in light of the values) it is kind of an uncomfortable reality when a whole group of people, on average, are considered uglier than another group of people (and the “good looking” people in the ugly group look a lot like the people in the “good looking” group).
2) there is also the cultural hegemony at work in terms of the assumption that they understand you, but you don’t need to understand them, cuz they’re weird. as a bengali my parents experienced in their own lives during with non-bengalis during a united pakistan. my father studied in west pakistan and everyone assumed that bengal was the land of little black hindu monkeys. west pakistanis were overlords over bengalis, so of course the perception needs to be filtered through that light.
208 Amitabh, actually I would have to agree on certain points you mention. Yes,there is a clear divide when it comes to the weddings atleast in the ‘lack of fun’ aspect. So much so that although I’m from Andhra, I would love to have a Punjabi wedding! 😉 And you’re spot on about the conservatism, lack of alcohol etc. I would say this is more of a cultural thing, since most people in my family too don’t drink, don’t eat meat etc. But these things are changing as well. And as for the hospitality thingie, I have no idea what to say. I guess they just didn’t warm to you perhaps because you may have lacked any common frames of reference.
Amongst Hindus, the South is commonly thought to be the land of the great temples and the schools of philsophy. There are no comparable architectural achievements or body of work in the North, so it will always take the laurel for “authenticiy” – the idea being that the cultural practices of the North are “aadha-Musalmaan.” And that too is an epithet used by many Southerners to deride North Indians Hindus.
Amitabh:
i’m from the south and i would skewer you if it weren’t for the fact that everything you said was a dead on accurate description of my experience growing up, especially the silence and formality. i didn’t even have any bollywood. i always found my north indian friends parent’s house much more fun and the food was much more palpable to my tastes. south indian food left me screaming for a cheeseburger.
but all’s well that ends well. i eventually americanized my parents by turning them on to sushi snd bordeaux, so now the house is even funner than the northies, who’ve stuck to chicken tikka masala and johnny walker black. at least they moved on from red.
Oh, Amitabh, I have to address all those comments. But first let me say that I believe you are not trying to offend anyone but…
Yes, there’s no meat or alcohol at many South Indian weddings, but there is often one or both at the reception, and regardless, we still have a good time without those. It’s hard to compete with a Punjabi wedding, but I think south indian weddings can be fun, just in a different way. No dancing (sometimes) or drinking (sometimes) but lots of socializing with long lost relatives, dressing up in beautiful silks and jewelry and eating lots of tasty food.
I totally disagree with the hospitality thing. I have found overwhelming hospitality from desis of all backgrounds, and an expectation of you returning that hospitality. Perhaps you were feeling awkward in some South Indian homes for another reason and that may have skewed your impressions? Perhaps it was your own perception that they were conservative, or that you were somehow an outsider to their culture?
and the “good looking” people in the ugly group look a lot like the people in the “good looking” group
I don’t know, judging from the South Indian cinema that I’ve seen, South Indians have their own aesthetic preferences that are distinct from both North Indian and Western standards of beauty. I’ve met a fair number of South Indian men who are reasonable facsimiles of that Sendhil dude from Heroes, yet South Indian movies are largely populated by chubby guys with big moustaches.
i’m curious to know how much people’s experiences or perceptions of desis outside of their linguistic/caste-based communities are affected by geography (outside of desh). i politely decline to specifically name the place where i grew up for purposes of semi-anonymity, but it was a US metro area where there are puh-lenty of south asians. when i was very young, it seemed that we had more family friends of varied south asian or even middle eastern extraction; for example, my mom befriended the wives of my father’s ismaili, sikh, iraqi, and pakistani coworkers. we would go to dinner parties at their houses, and they visited our house plenty of times. i considered their children some of my “home” friends. it wasn’t until there seemed to be more of a critical mass of tambrahms (iyengar, natch) that get-togethers with the “other” friends became less and less frequent — and that i started becoming much more aware of cultural differences that inform some of the stereotypes that have been brought up on this thread. anyway, i have a friend who grew up in the sticks, canada and he cannot relate at all to the north/south/hindu/muslim/iyer/iyengar/punjabi/gujrati/light/dark etc. bullshit that goes on in the region where my parents still live. all the indian families where he lives are friends, subscribing to that “pan-brown” identity that was described upstream … er … upthread, whoops, nerd alert. i think i stopped feeling like a part of that pan-brownness, thanks to the rudeness i experienced from some class a jackasses … and even now, though i have all sorts of south asian friends, i realize that my defenses stay up much longer around north indians. (i’ve expressed this to my parents, who think i’m crazy and that all indians are not to be trusted, especially our own family “friends.” so classic.)
are you, by any chance my brother? and did i forget to say a big wtf? seriously, no love for the south indian food? although i love my southie culture to bits, i would give up every single aspect of it if i had to, except for the food. and maybe the fabric. but mostly the food. that’s all i’m going to say, but i’m sure plenty of other SMers will join in in time…
I am adding my two cents as someone who did watch a lot of bollywood growing up, the constant caricatures of South Indians as “elbow licking, sambar stained Madrasis” were aplenty. Even on regular Doordarshan television there were advertisements featuring the “buck toothed buffoon” were fairly regular. Even though I am half Malayalee, my mom, my brother and I were always Madrasis to everyone up north.
My mother was also a Malayalee Christian in Nagpur, moved there to do her masters from small village in Kerala (shout out to Anna’s mom) and she and my father (who is a Bengali [North Indian ] Hindu), both agree that people from the South were not treated well at the time. In fact my mother’s S. Indian-ness and her Christian-ness got my parents kicked out of my grandparents home, also my grand-mom used to perform some purification ritual after my mother would touch her refrigerator or kitchen utensils. I faced similar discrimination growing up in Nagpur because I was a “mixed” or “hybrid” and I wasn’t purely a north indian or hindu so much so that I got beat up on first day of classes by other girls in 5th grade, when we moved to Nagpur. Since I didn’t lay claim to either of my parents’ religion, and my “ethnic/state” identity was suspect, the boys in fifth grade would chant “shiva shiva” to also purify their desks if I accidently touched it or leaned on it. When I went to Chennai for my undergrad, I had hoped for more acceptance and sadly that was lacking even there. I was now the Northerner who didn’t speak fluent malayalam or tamil and wasn’t familiar with the network of mallu cousins. My entire first year in college dorms was traumatic because of the lack of acceptance I faced among my peers and seniors. I was also looked down for knowing about Bollywood movies, even if I knew just as much or more about Hollywood and Malyalam movies.
Of course after 7 years in the U.S. my hindi and malayalam have the same level of fluency. But the questioning of my identity by Indian students and random people I smile at in grocery stores continues, along with the general disinterest in me after I explain I am half and half compared to my tam-bram or bengali friends for whom the conversations continue . There are lecherous uncles and mean aunties even here in the states who still buy into the stereotype that Christian girls are sluts and I must be so because of my mothers religion.
Of course there are also people who believe that since I am a half bengali, I am argumentative and pretentious – combine that with a PhD and the other half of the population who buys into the above hackneyed ideas, I am the poster of un-marriageability (not that I am complaining, but my poor mom’s dreams!!)
So what about people who are half and half and have lived in both regions for approximately the same amount of years? Why do you Southerners and Northerners forsake poor moi? Where do I belong?
Definitely never felt like the cultural or even religious differences were a big deal in Hyderabad, then was rudely surprised on moving to the US. My parents’ friends were from a variety of cultural/religious backgrounds as were my school friends. Hard to avoid that in Hyderabad. The more I read the comments on this thread the luckier I feel to have grown up there, riots, curfews and all. Also since my own background is mixed it’s difficult to feel completely a part of or completely alien to anyone else’s culture.
but all’s well that ends well. i eventually americanized my parents by turning them on to sushi snd bordeaux, so now the house is even funner than the northies, who’ve stuck to chicken tikka masala and johnny walker black. at least they moved on from red.
Hmmm so the South Indians became white to trump the Punjabis. To me that would be a pyrhhic victory, but if your goal is to decenter “hegemonic” Punjabis its probably a brilliant stroke, assume the “higher” cultural vantagepoint to mock the bumptious “drinking and dancing” natives – and perhaps something to it too, e.g. the seemingly higher outrmarriage rate amongst South Indians.
My mate, whos an indian muslim, has experienced this in lot of non arab muslim countries (Malaysia, Indonesia) and communities (even Indian Muslims) Arab muslims are treated as they are superior than the locals or themselves. According to him its because the Arabs have managed to convince uneducated non arabs about their superiority as Mohammed was born arab and the Quran is in Arabic thus they are the chosen ones.
i went to school in india with indians from all over, subcontinentals from all over and several nationalities. so, thankfully, was very isolated from all this stuff. the first time i encountered it was in college in the u.s. but the demarcation there was less along north-south lines and more along dbd/idb/ibi/srilanikans/bangladeshis/nepalis vs. abds and pakistanis vs. all subcontinentals (except for the half-pakistani, half-indian students, of which there were a few). i made only one good abd friend and stuck to the “international” group of subcontinentals/europeans/west indians/east asians(both international and american-born)/africans. in fact, overall, there was a bigger “divide” between international students and their american-born counterparts than between international students coming from different regions of their home country. seems very different to what i read here now.
Curry and Rice girl,
My father would have told you that you are perfect; his brother, my uncle, loved Bengali everything so much, I have a cousin named Subash. Daddy was convinced that Bengalis were just as Lemurian as Mallus, since both were “brilliant” and had “Communist tendencies”. At our house, you would have been whole.
Incidentally, are you Arundhati? 😉
More like, “it’s not always a north-south problem.” I have received more ‘dear family deity, he’s much too dark!!!’ in potential gf situations (parental review is harsh) from other Tamil families, but have never even had the chance to generate this dynamic in a north-south situation. (that’s a very bare invitation)
And so! Honestly, though I would LOVE to understand conversational Hindi, the most I get out of Hindi movies is fresh material for my inecessant SRK impressions, but it’s really of his acting technique and not some general, superior sense of my ‘own’ culture/ethnicity/in-group’s superiority.
I had so much respect for the north indian parents of BN Camp attendees who would sit through hours and hours of sloooooow tamil, telugu and sanskrit padams, varnams (or nrityopaharams of INTERMINABLE length–.5–1.5 hours!!!) etc without batting an eye-lid, losing their enthusiasm or turning their cheshire-cat grins into hindi/punjabi/urdu/gujurati-supremacist frowns. When my mother or her gurus found the time to choreograph a piece in hindi (Vaishnava Janato comes to mind–excellent material for ecumenical sermons in motion), the response from the northie parents was palpable–grateful without being desperate and not a hint of ‘aw shucks the southie crap is over” relief.
I am not sure what is the definition of “North Indian” here, are UPiets, Biharis North Indians? I am asking this because they are the most hated people in India now, be it North India i.e. Delhi and Punjab or be it South. So statements like “North Indian don’t like South Indians and vice versa” in IMO, don’t capture the complex regional and cultural dynamics of hate in India :).
Right here, on SM. Welcome!
Thanks Anna. From your vignettes her and at HERStory, your father sounds like a really great man.
No, but my Catholic Communist grandfather is still waiting for me to pen down a counter to her novel to show her up!
he he. but i wasn’t actually insinuating anything 😉
Curry and Rice Girl – that sounds truly traumatic.
amitabh, although i hate generalisations, yes, i do see some of the social patterns you mentioned – my parents, their friends, and even much of my family back home, are rather formal in their social interactions – there is always a sort of etiquette that is followed that obviously made any outsider (and not just north indians) feel the need to be equally formal. on the other hand, in my mama’s house in madras, it was always a free-for-all – anybody could come and go as they please, and would always be guaranteed a drink and a solid meal and a good chat. that’s why i spent as much time as possible at his place 🙂 i guess different strokes for different folks. my parents are their friends here are definitely more casual about these things after having lived in the states for so long. but they still find my last-minute dinner plans and casual drop-bys very odd (and shameful).
If you have not already seen it, here are a few blog posts and the ensuing torrent of comments involving cross-cultural misunderstanding (north vs south, high brow vs low brow etc) and hero worship.
Sivaji, The Boss. Of Crap
Thank you Sivaji
Life after Sivaji
I recently met a Telugu ABD who goes around telling people that he is Punjabi (he even cut off part of his last name), partly because he’s “so handsome” but mostly because he’s ashamed to be from a state where people are known best for being computer engineers (his words, not mine).
I just have to say, what kind of craziness is that?? White people don’t give a shit if you’re Telugu or Punjabi, you’re brown just the same (unless of course you’re extremely light-skinned and can pass, which is more likely if you’re Punjabi). Also, OH NOEZ being from a state with an expanding economy! I just think it’s so ridiculous how the Punjabi archetype has taken on the ‘cool’ aura among ABDs (who don’t actually know South Asian history, and don’t care about it either as much as they do about being the ‘cool’ ones in their little brown clique in college). It’s like the Punjabi archetype has taken on the ‘ghetto black kid cool’ aura that is prevalent in the rest of suburban America. Also, it just shows how m’f’in IGNORANT this kid is, since he’s ashamed to be from a state which has recently seen economic upswing, not realizing that Punjab has actually been much more well-off for a long time since. (Besides, if we’re talking stereotypes here, wouldn’t the more mainstream stereotype of Punjabis be the Sikh taxi driver?)
Also, this is purely on a shallow note, but I don’t understand why desis from all over seem to agree that north Indians are generally better-looking (with more angular features as opposed to rounder ones, and of course lighter skin). But that’s because a) the skin colorism in our community absolutely makes NO sense to me, ESPECIALLY when it’s coming from second-gens (I mean, WTF??), and b) maybe it’s a familiarity thing. I find the southie rounder features and bigger eyes and smaller noses to be more attractive. It might also have to do with my distaste for Russians after growing up in a primarily Russian neighborhood, whom I frequently confuse northies with.
But yeah, whoever said that the south Indian film industry needs it’s eyes checked is totally on the spot. There are actually lots of cute south indian guys out there (many who do look like that sendhil dude), but you wouldn’t know it from the moustaches and mullets and beer bellies on the most popular actors. shudder
Also, on a language note, as long as I’m on my southie rant: I DO NOT SPEAK HINDI. THAT DOES NOT MAKE ME ANY LESS INDIAN. My grandfather was put in jail for protesting for independence, you fucker. I can’t believe the audacity of some ABDs who claim to be ‘More Desi Than You’ but don’t know shit about their own history.
Also, I prefer south Indian food (or at least Andhra food) by a mile to northern food (except for tandoori chicken; daal makes me sick to my stomach though). Again, I think it’s mostly a familiarity thing.
Samuel L. Jaikishan, is that you?
Addey madayan!!!! Disparage the sacred furry bellies of Vijaykanth, Sivaji and generations of fine s. indian actors, will you!! But glorifying Sendhil Ramamurthy is a bit much–it’s really a stretch to ask the average Lemurian male to shed his/her bodyfat, grow a few inches and forget whether it was British/Chennai accent that particular day on the set.
I’d like to think i have a shot at this vaunted ‘cute’ status that I hear so many people nattering on about, so Sendhil is completely unrealistic. I call for a general and principled dismissal of this man as a Lemurian male ideal.
Amitabh : There are many responses to your bigoted comments. However, I shall refrain from responding except to say that you are completely wrong. I have the opposite experiences with North Indians.
On another note : Would it matter if the four Southern states seceded peacefully from the North ( like the split of Czechoslovakia).
217 · milli: i’m curious to know how much people’s experiences or perceptions of desis outside of their linguistic/caste-based communities are affected by geography (outside of desh). i politely decline to specifically name the place where i grew up for purposes of semi-anonymity
I grew up in Westchester, ny, in the 80’s–my parents had friends from north and south India–Hindu, Sikh, Jain–but not so much Muslim
Would it matter? Of course it would. But it’s not very realistic. There might be some constant tension, but it’s at a relatively low-level, and there’s hardly any violence around, which basically means it’s not worth for anyone to secede over.
” On another note : Would it matter if the four Southern states seceded peacefully from the North ( like the split of Czechoslovakia).”
So will it be a single Dravidian country or four new countries?
😛 That took me a little while to get. I can’t help but be at least a little bit angry; I have actually had ABDs question my Indian-ness (whatever that may mean) because of things like not worshipping at the altar of Bollywood. What makes it more ridiculous is that I was actually born on the subcontinent, and raised there for a bit too.
muralimannered: Vijaykanth. I rest my case.
🙂
I don’t mean to glorify this Sendhil dude, but he’s basically the only example in mainstream Western media (that I know of, at least). How about this guy?
nalah,
I’m not too thrilled about the message that one sends either. I’d be more encouraged if the fellow on the right was adjudged a candidate for Sendhil’s slot on the s. indian scale.
Malathi – you talked about your lack of tamil accent. Picking an accent is an art form. I am sure you have an accent that is distinctive to Chennai. eg. I can pick a Good Shepherd / Holy Angels accent which is quite different from a PSBB accent which is again quite different from Mylapore accent. We all have accents – including ABDs – the world would be so boring if all of us sounded alike
I dont see how being ruled by biharis / punjabis helps South Indians. South India would be far better off without the baggage from up north. I would aver that Maharashtra and Gujarat should secede as well. After all they are economic powerhouses. Dont really see how having the BIMARU states in the mix helps anyone. From an economic viewpoint the BIMARU states are a drain. Plus Laloos and Mulayams get elected.
A single dravidian country but very loosely linked. Foreign policy and Defence being central subjects and everything else being a state subject. Win – win for everyone. Remember that each of these states are larger (popln/ geography) than many European nations.
221 · risible but all’s well that ends well. i eventually americanized my parents by turning them on to sushi snd bordeaux, so now the house is even funner than the northies
Hmmm so the South Indians became white to trump the Punjabis. To me that would be a pyrhhic victory, ___________________________________________________________________
Hmmm–coupla problems here–1) northern India does not = Punjabi–2) sushi does not = white–been to Gari recently–bring the freakin’ cash!
A DBD Telugu friend once told me that the only reason there is no Confederate States of India already is that other Southies would rather tolerate the status quo then end up being bossed around by Tamils… 🙂
I’m quite surprised that this issue causes so much grief for ABD’s… but my comments earlier must come with the caveat that most of my experience with desis in groups is in the form of clubs and community organizations (SM might be an extension of that) that emphasized unity. I didn’t grow up around desis, so there are a lot of dynamics I probably missed out on… My introduction to desi society took place in Houston, a place with rather odd demographics. The Indian community there (in the 90’s at least, I’m not sure how much this has changed) came almost exclusively from two groups, Gujaratis and Mallus. The only Punjabis I knew were Pakistanis. The whole Punjabi pop culture cult didn’t exist (at least not yet).
Amitabh : There are many responses to your bigoted comments. However, I shall refrain from responding except to say that you are completely wrong. I have the opposite experiences with North Indians.
dude, chill. amitabh is a good ppl.
well sis, as a kid i found the food harsh. all vegetarian, often bitter, outlandishly hot. but as i got older i learned to appreciate it, especially the health benefits. i still crave north indian food when i’m really hungry but it strikes me as a greasy carbfest. my parents, who are health nazis, are in their 60’s and 70’s, exercise every day, hike regularly, and it is quite shocking to see them next to their north indian friends, who are universally fat and immobile.
Amitabh is a good guy. I want to intervene and state that, because provocative, vulnerable comments like his are what fuel great discussions. I’d rather know the truth and explore it in a civil fashion with others, than have people remain silent, out of fear of offending us– or inspiring negative rxns.
He knew he was taking a risk, he did it anyway, he trusted us. I respect that. I welcome it. 🙂
I know schools in Andhra teach Hindi and Telugu. Do schools in the north teach Hindi and a south Indian language in addition to English?
I have not read all the comments yet. But I thought I will share few thing that I heard from people around me.
From the article: “That the residents of the four southern states are, on the whole, less bigoted and more forward-looking is a product not of their genes but of their environment.”
This is not “entirely” true. 10 years back a town in southern AP (I forgot the name) where it used to be impossible for the north indians to have businesses. Native traders would boycott the northern traders socially. People of this town are proud people, they a spend a lot on money(only next to mysore) during dussherra and brag about it.
Also I used see a lot of very successful north indian businessmen in chennai and other places (nooks and crannies of AP and TN), who would have large families but would never mingle with the local community (Like the indian immigrants here 😉 ).
Oh,BTW Say it loud, I am southie and I am proud
As an aside I wonder why people are taking bollywood caricatures so seriously. These guys survive on stereotyping, Christian as drunkard, Marathi female as Kaamwali bai, Bihari male as the house servant, Bengali as dhoti wearing coward guy, Muslim as the faithful gangster. I mean if you look at it I think south Indians in generals are made less fun of.
Cool factors of Southies vs Northies in the US
Southies: Pravin(need I explain) Ajay Naidu (Office Space) Jay Chandrasekhar (SuperTroopers) Tony Kanal (banged Gwen Stefani in her cooler days) M NIght Shyamalan (made good movies at the turn of the century) Kim Thayil (Soundgarden) Naveen Andrews (Lost) Mindy Kaling (Office) Padmalakshmi(if she keeps her mouth shut, she has promise) Anna(responsible for Indians in the US becoming less productive by putting 500-1000 comments for each blog entry)
Northies: Kal Penn (good start) Mira Nair
Deepa Mehta (Hollywood Bollywood makes me forget Fire) Sarita Chowdhury(amazingly half white. I did not know that) Indira Varma(only reason to watch Kamasutra, things are looking good) Parminder Nagra Rhona Mitra (who cares if she cant act, hmm, the chick factor is geting the upper hand)) Sunny Leone (Yowza, but you know, there is only so much skank factor one can take – long term) The Ex Mr PadmaLakshmi Gurindher Chada(uh oh North, it is not looking good) Camille (nice save, but not enough)
No Contest. South wins. Heh heh.