It’s been an adjustment, to experience this website’s growth and witness our readership change. People leave, others join, many lurk. While I miss some of our now-absent personalities who were prolific with their pondering (Punjabi Boy, Jai Singh, DesiDancer and Espressa come to mind), I’m thrilled about our new commenters, who are expanding our discussion and bringing their unique points of view to our cacophonous, rowdy, online adda. I’m especially looking at our first-gen contributors, like Runa and Malathi, because for stories like the one I’m trying to blog, I think their perspective is invaluable, for helping us find nuance and context. What I’m trying to say is, HELP.
Al Mujahid for Debauchery left this on our news tab:
Unbelievable. Pakistani actor Moin Akhtar (a muhajir/Indian origin himself) plays Hyderabadis from India in blackface in this ‘comedy’ show.
Wait, WHAT? And here is where the DBDs come in, because I don’t understand the clip below or know who these actors are, and as I’ve stated before, I like to get as much information as possible before I get my outrage on– and believe me, I could rage about actors in blackface.
What on earth is going on? And would someone who watches desi tv please tell me that this an uncommon practice? I fast forwarded through the clip, but I don’t get the greasy, huge-black-glasses-equipped, buck-toothed character, and by “don’t get”, I mean my spider sense is tingling. What, if anything, do all of you know?
140, Oops, that should be “back-burner” nor “back stove.” 🙂
On the other hand, I have this annoying habit of probing further when someone says he or she is from Russia (or Ukraine or Uzbekhistan). I tend to ask, “Yeah, but are you Ukrainian or Moldovian or Byelorussian?”
I am eager to let them know I appreciate the interesting complexities of their simplified identity.
Hyderbadi: I commented on that Outlook article in this earlier thread regarding Kerala back in July: http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004553.html#comment148399
This is what I found very telling about the article, the subtext is that it is surprising to N. Indians that a short, dark people could create a comparatively more desirable economic/social situation.
I take exception to the idea that hard-core partying is a “northern value.”
That said, I think some of the difference around what is seen as “Indian” in the U.S. derives from different migratory periods/patterns. I also think it’s easier to pick up bhangra than BN if you’re a layperson. Not that this justifies anything — it doesn’t. It’s just weird that there’s some kind of choke-hold on what’s considered an “authentic, desi” identity, especially since these ideas are usually rooted in this weird Des-West feedback (e.g. Bollywood).
Oh, and someone has done an ethnography of desi cliques in NY/NJ colleges. The only downside is that it’s a bit outdated, and a bit regionally-specific.
That is a matter of religion, though. I am a Malayalee Christian who at times truly despises my religion. But I would never blame my parents for wanting me to marry only within their religion. That is inherent in many religious communities. It may go over somewhat better in Dharmic religious, but even then there would be tension in may families in certain situations.
That being said, yes it is true that some Christian groups in Kerala think they are better than others. My denomination is probably one of the prime examples. And even then, it may not be displayed within the whole group, either. But That is not true with the majority of the Christian groups in Kerala.
As for the topic at hand, I’ve had Gujartis, Pakistanis and North Indians all say disparaging things about South Indians right in front of my face. One particular person was going on about a bunch of South Indians speaking in their language, and her becoming annoyed. The level of ignorance and the way she said South Indian language was really disheartening. The funny thing is, though she had no problem speaking with her group of friends with Hindi or Gujarati. Why I didn’t answer back, I don’t know. For some reason, everyone seems to think it is completely O.K. And in a way, it really is my own fault, because many times I’m just too taken back to give a fitting reply. Though sometimes I do. Now that I think about it though, the specific examples I remember were from DBDs rather than ABDs.
Malathi in 116#
ha Malathi, let me tell you the ways.. whether its garishly costumed bicycling pathan-pawnbrokers yelling ‘adei, nillu, nimbilki panon venu…'(a mgr movie staple, mmkr had a similar scene too iirc), to vikram haranguing the petrified sowkarpet ‘seth’ father-in-law in guttural pimp-bootlegger-hindi, to the irrepresible T Rajendran serenading the voters of ‘Beegar’ [i cant find the link, but you can watch him molest english in this one, justforkix],or Vivek taking on computer-ji in the tamil version pork-chop-no-role-left-unspurned-AB as the host of KBC.., or s.ve sekhar with ek gaon me yek kisaan ragu-thatha in transpur….classic! the faeces hurling goes on and goes both ways…and we loves it!!
Another thing…despite stereotypes, urban middle-class India is starting to become remarkably homogenous, culturally speaking. Especially the younger generation. Watching these musical shows like Indian Idol, I’m always struck by how much these kids from far-flung regions of India, still have so much in common with each other, many of the same sets of shared references, shared values, shared behaviors and attitudes…it’s like this middle-class pan-Indian identity that leaves these people more similar to each other than to rural people (perhaps of their same caste background) living in villages a few miles from their homes.
This reminded me of something that Prem Panicker wrote about how John Wright answered phone calls when he was the Indian coach. John Wright would say “John Wright, Indian team coach” or something to that effect, and the point PP was getting at was that John Wright took pride in being an Indian coach, contrasting it with the regional games played by the selectors. FWIW.
And for Kush’s long list of Punjabis in the biz, I guess you could add Amitabh Bachchan, maybe with an asterisk, as his mother, Teji, is Punjabi.
i know…but in some ways, that makes me relate less to them.
sadly, i have none of these traits. my nose always gets in the way when i do yoga – most distracting…
amit, are you not from madras? i think it’s only non-TN people who conform to the strictly chennai rule (even my hindi teacher corrected me!). this is like the mumbai vs bombay debate – natives still use the older version very frequently, perhaps more so than the ‘new’ (though not really new in TN) official name.
i used to also think my mother was exaggerating, but she really wasn’t – i’ve seen how people treat my parents when they find out they don’t speak hindi, and how ‘impressed’ they are when they see that i do – their comfort level is completely different. in that vein, camille, i’m not sure if it would have made that much of a difference if the desi community was mixed to the extent that these differences would necessarily need to be overlooked to form a community – some people – north or south – will always continue to be narrow in their definitions of what ‘desi’ is. sometimes, i regret learning hindi, and becoming somebody that might pass for an ‘all-indian,’ in the sense that people seem to accept me more as ‘like them’ than if i didn’t. even my mom calls me a ‘hindi-wali’ which makes me sad, really. but what to do – i love my hindi AND my tamil (but our ara-gora/bastardized telugu – not so much:))..
Camille, Southies are also guilty of stereotyping Northies as hard partying, heavy drinking generally boisterous types ,no?
Seeing where this debate is going I want to clarify that despite my rants ( calling me “Madarasi” pushes my buttons!) I heart Punjabis – after all I married one !!
To get back on track so far as I understand it : The video in question brings to the forefront deep rooted north -south cultural differences and lack of mutual understanding. Blackface comedy has a long history in subcontinental cinema and may not be considered as horrifying an occurrence as it is here in the US. Javed Jaffery is a talented guy ( Okay ,okay- the last one is my personal opinion)
amit, sorry – didn’t see your ‘;)’. but still – it’s funny when people not from madras correct me in my usage of madras – everybody just thinks it’s because i’m an ABD, which is even more irritating…:)
ak, I’m sure this is true. I just think of growing up, when I was really young, and there were only about 5-10 desi families in the area, anyway. Granted this was in the U.S., but for a brief period of time regional identities weren’t as important as the common experience of being desi in the southwest. [this was, of course, not in California] To a certain extent, I do think there tends to be a “critical mass” above and under which regional hostility/stereotypes are easier for someone to indulge in, publicly, at least.
Anna, this is a very good question to ask, and a fully valid point to me. I don’t see Jolie as having been in blackface in Mighty Heart. I saw the movie – worth seeing, even if only for Angelina Jolie’s fantastic performance. I would, however, go along with most of the criticism that Asra Nomani has leveled at the film, (see her WaPo op-ed and C-Span interview linked on ultrabrown in particular). And calling the make-up and hair-frizzy-making stuff ‘blackface’ – distorts not only the literal but also the figurative meaning of the term beyond recognition.
To a naive person, i.e., myself, she appears in the movie as someone of mixed French-Moroccan descent. This was done so realistically in the movie that I (who had never seen Jolie in any other movie, AFAIR) thought Jolie actually was French-Moroccan. She is very lightly made-up in the movie, and her hair is frizzed-up, but that’s all.
The thing about the claim that there must be other actresses who had the natural skin color to do the role – is – can they also act as well as Jolie? But this also raises the related question – did Jolie overact, or mis-act in that role? Could a person who has grown up with a knowledge of white skin privilege really know how a darker-skinned person would actually act in that situation in real life? Without any spoilers, suffice it to say that there are times in the movie when it does feel as if she were acting the way a white person, used to the privilege, would have acted.
Even if the answer is – yes, she acts like a white person, but in brownish make-up – I would ask what was the directorial thrust – did the director make her act more ‘white’ to be able to sell the movie to more people in the US, for example? Then maybe she was being faithful to her directorial meta-instructions in acting that way. She still does it so well, that it simply does not make sense to claim that the role should have been done by a naturally darker person, or that she is in ‘blackface’.
AK, I’m not. I thought my “;)” indicated that I was jesting. I’m not aware if the name-change is still an (big) issue with the native-dwellers, so if you are able to shed more light, please do. In general, I do tend to notice it in US newspapers etc. when they use the older names, and sometimes give them feedback regarding the new names. But, at a personal level, it doesn’t affect/bother me what name is used. Basically, I’ll defer to the natives as to whatever name they prefer.
well, chennai has always been used in literary tamil (aka senthamizh). so when you hear speeches (e.g. by politicians), read poetry/literature, hear radio/television newscasts, chennai always has and is used. madras, obviously, was the name given by the british. but even today, both forms persist. chennai is used more frequently now, since the name change, but the use of madras has not diminished. and like the bombay vs mumbai debate, the madras vs chennai has that political tone of tamilization – e.g. the tamil ‘activists’ will use it far more than those who are more westernized or ‘modern’. i guess, these days, chennai is always safe/uncontroversial, and madras is only not safe when you’re speaking to a pro-tamil tamil politician (and, apparently, to some non-tamilians).
The thread also brings into focus certain facets of the South-North issue as it plays out among ABDs, that I (as a DBD having lived both in the South and the North) simply did not face, to anything like the same extent. The particular socio-economic-cultural environment I was privileged to have, plus the fact that in both places, I always had friends belonging to both regions, plus the fact that members of my own family, beginning with my parents’ generation, have married into both North and South Indian communities, has largely protected me.
This is a clear case of a DBD learning things from ABDs about what are typically DBD issues, as they refract through an ABD lens.
I think if South India ever seceded from the North(it will never happen), the North is fucked. The South doesn’t really need much of a defense budget and they generate high revenues.
milli, where about the US have you grown up? While I definitely recognize this sentiment, what’s been stronger for me is the sense that north indians feel that south indians just study too much & focus too much on rituals/religion in general.
I agree with HMF partially, people from the South being smarter and more studious than the people from North is what I heard the most.
This has been a very good thread, I’m learning a lot all round. And Amitabh, particularly liked your comment at #149.
milli: i have always grown up with the sense that north indians think south indians are uncultured savages.
This is sad, and something it’s good to raise awareness of–my parents have their faults, but this is not one of them, though as others have pointed out, it may be a Delhi thing to be more open on this score….
I agree with the broad tenor of your commen. But just on the skin color issue – there really are a lot of dark-skinned people in the North, and many more than a few light skinned people in the South. Heck, even some Armenians and Iranians – normally taken as the genetic stock that brought lighter skin to North India – are as dark as the darkest people I can imagine, and some Kannadigas and Tamilians I have known actually have blue eyes and blondish hair. It does nobody any favors to impose a greater degree of artificial binary-ness on the skin color issue than is actually present on the ground. Some of this arises due to genetic injections from outside – and this is both in the South and in the North – not just in the North. But, as razib has also pointed out in other threads, there is also a lot of native genetic variation that naturally arises in a population that’s large, as India’s always has been. I rather suspect that as media representations become more, well, representative, you will see this natural diversity show up, and in course of time, people will see that both North and South Indians are both fair and dark skinned.
If we are talking abt stereotyping, I might as well throw the sikhs in the gauntlet!
They are almost always portrayed as stupid/dumb/silly/joker..haha
I don’t know how many times I have heard the “sardar ke barah baj gaye” joke.. damn..lol.
chachaji, your experience is somewhat along the same lines as mine. I grew up in Rajasthan, but my parents had some South Indian (and Bengali) family friends – my mom learned to make idli-sambhar (another favorite), uthapam, vada and dosa (yes, I know there’s more to SI cuisine than these four) from one of them. We used to have a mini regional film-festival once a year that showed Bengali, Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Bhojpuri, Punjabi, Malayalam movies – not always with sub-titles, but that didn’t stop me from watching them. We used to have Hindi movies pretty much every weekend. It also had to do with the demographics of the employees of the public-sector company where my dad worked – mostly North-Indians but still a good number of people from all over the country. In school, some of the teachers were Malayalee, and some students did make fun of their accent, and I remember one particular incident where a student asked the teacher how to spell “maximum” repeatedly, and when the teacher caught on as to what was happening, the kid got the thrashing of his life. In the 80’s, cousin of mine married (love marriage, no less) a Kannada girl from B’lore where they now live. Among my immediate relatives, it was really rare for a woman to work, as she did.
In college, I had some South Indians in my class, and I became fast friends (and still am) with a Kannada guy from B’lore, who is now married to a North-Indian girl. I was introduced to Classical music in college and loved it. I’ve had a chance to watch Bharatnatyam and other South Indian art forms in the US and New Delhi, and I enjoy them as much as I enjoy Bhangra or Pt. Chaurasia. No time for hate when there’s so much to like. 🙂
I feel privileged, but think such kind of exposure when growing up helps. Also, if people experience such prejudice next time, I’d suggest that you at least try to challenge the display of ignorance in a non-threatening manner. Something along the lines of “Maybe you didn’t realize this, but your remark/action was ….” That’ll give the person something to think about. As Harry Tuttle said, “We’re all in this together.”
Also forgot to add that as a teenager, my parents (along with some relatives) went on a south-indian tour that involved a lot of time spent in trains 🙂 and we also saw Tirupati, Meenakshi temple, Rameshwaram temple etc. with pit-stops in all major big cities. I only wish I’d also seen Kerala.
Amit, glad to hear of your positive experiences. Also, glad you mentioned music, because that is another axis, in addition to language and food, where the schism appears quite deep. People who appreciate or sing or perform the one style simply cannot seem to understand those who do the other. The Carnatic vs Hindustani classical music thing appears like something that just cannot be bridged without an inevitably diluting compromise that is a sell-out to both sides. A lot of prejudiced comment goes back and forth around that issue on both sides, contributing to the overall tension.
Still, there are many Hindustani musicians who come from areas traditionally understood to be in South India, and many South Indian (and North Indian) musicians are experimenting with styles that fuse the two traditions, and there are quite a few of them also in the diaspora. Speaking of which, where’s Sriram?
Can any Pakistani commenters/lurkers here enlighten us on the relationship between the Hyderabadis and the North Indians in Pakistan?
I feel for people of South India/any other regions of India who feel stereotyped in Bollywood/movies. But at least you are fortunate that Bollywood filmmakers at least acknowledge the Tamilians/Sikhs/any others, even if it is in a negative way. Unfortunately I come from a state which is not even acknowledged in the movies/or in any other popular culture. If I mention my state to ABD/DBD, I get a blank look. I am neither a North Indian nor a South Indian, as I have have few things in common with either groups
What is your state?
Would that be a north-eastern state? 🙂
Discrimination by North Indians (by the north I mean anyone outside of the four Southern States / North East) against the South Indians is widespread. I learnt Hindi in my early 20’s as I was practically forced to. Try working in Bihar without being able to speak a word of Hindi. The official language of the company was Hindi and meetings were always conducted in Hindi. This despite the organization being a national one and me being recruited from the south. While working in the North, I faced great ridicule for being a “Madarasi”. Even my payslip was in Hindi and I had to seek the help of other hindi speaking colleagues . They would help but only after ridiculing for not knowing Hindi and for not knowing the ‘national’ language. Sometimes I would retort that Hindi was normally spoken by the uncultured brutes (cheap shot) Later worked in other parts of North India and faced similar discrimination. Is this racism – probably because the North has greater political power due to its larger population. Hindi is not my mother tongue and I would be so much happier if South India seceded from the North. Dont really need a bunch of Laloos determining by fate. Several years later, when I was in a position of power and was hiring I put in an informal condition that a person had to speak one of the South Indian languages to be promoted to a managerial position. Revenge – nerd style 😉 I hate Hindi and have been an ardent supporter of the anti-hindi brigade. This is not to say that I dont have North Indian friends or have never dated Northie women. I am pretty fluent in Hindi but when someone speaks to me in Hindi I speak back in Tamil / Malayalam / Kannada – depending my mood. That gets them to speak in English. No discrimination that I have faced in the Western World (including Australia) even compares to the disdain and contempt that was received while working in the North of India.
Rant over 🙂
Totally understand and endorse the behaviour of Anna’s mom – it is a normal reaction 🙂
ak@92:
HMF@95:
lifelong@126:
milli@135:
Amitabh@149:
While I’m late to the party, here is my contribution to this theme:
Once in my youth (early 2000s) I was on a flight from Chennai to Chicago. Unfortunately this was Air India (my fault really), and to add to the overall bad service, an inveterate conversationalist got on at Bombay to become my co-passenger. To make matters worse, he was a Hindi-only conversationalist. While I understand the language as much as can be expected from being taught it for 10 years as a second language in school, I detest some random stranger greeting me in a stream of Hindi without the basic courtesy to determine whether I speak it or not. While I wear English like my underpants (good for any outfit and any occasion) and I wear Tamil like a pair of rubber flip-flops (appropriate to go buy groceries, not good enough for a book-reading), I tend to wear Hindi like a virgin wearing a condom (having read the instructions from Wikipedia but without an intuitive feel for how it’s supposed to fit). To boost the annoyance factor, I was severely jet-lagged and just wanted to sleep on the flight. Anyway I was polite enough to answer his first few queries (“Kahaan rehte hain aap?”, “Aap karte kya hain?”) to the point, in one word, in English. The joker refused to take the hint, and launched into a solo toccata on the themes of what some politician (whom I’ve never heard of) should have done, what was wrong with the Indian cricket team, how Tendulkar should have played, the moral standards of India compared to the rest of the world, and (for all I know) how JFK was shot by aliens from invisible flying saucers, all this enriched by my valuable contributions of “uh”, “guh” and “guhuh”. Finally, from an overdose of fatigue, pain and having watched Pulp Fiction too many times, I turned to him and enquired gently and pleasantly enough, “English, motherfucker, do you speak it?”.
Never have I had a more restful eight hours of sleep on a plane.
i’ve uploaded a skin color map with india emphasized (i cut out the rest of the world). there’s a real difference, but obviously there’s overlap. i’ve met few punjabis who are as dark as the darkest tamils or bengalis, but it seems that a large number of punjabis are the same color as the typical bengali or tamil. bobby jindal is from a punjabi background, but he seems a normal color for a brown person.
second, i’ve watched only a few bollywood movies, but i recall getting uncomfortable when the super-dark buffoon showed up. i recall he’d go bug-eyed and smile with his bright white teeth against his dark skin. it reminded me of something out of a minstrel show.
third, of course northerners (punjabis especially) feel superior to dark-skinned south indians and bengalis. why shouldn’t they when the value system of beauty is the way it is? (there are south indians on this forum who have let drop they don’t have dark skin and “look northern,” so we know how it all stands) i’ve seen too many punjabis sneer when they talk about south indians, or even bengalis (since i’m bengali this is a ‘to-my-face’ thing). it’s normal that people want to feel superior to others. that being said, it is also graceless and classless to signal in such a brazen and gauche manner, and reflects on what kind of moral fiber or upbringing you’ve had. but i doubt south indians are any better essentially. i’ve seen telugus disparage tamils as “true dravidians” (to an audience of bengalis and oriyans). i’ve heard bengalis assume that tamils were particularly dark-skinned, as if bengalis aren’t nearly as dark (of course the bengalis know very well that people to their north and west refer to them as black). to be black is to be the lowest of the low. at least south indians can be glad they’re not “negroes” (ethiopians distinguish themselves from the lowland black populations because of their “red” skin and “finer” features).
fourth, one assumes this denigration of south indians will happen more and more as the south supersedes the cow belt socially and economically (punjab & haryana, gujarat and maharashtra are all very advanced of course, so the generalization needs to be tempered). people need to make themselves feel superior somehow, and i think both north and south indians agree that the physical type of the northwest is the most beauteous to behold (well, at least after a back shaving!). this doesn’t mean it is objectively true, i’m just saying that tacitly even those who are offended by it tend to agree with it. a dark-skinned south indian friend of very progressive anti-castist mentality once explained away the light-skinned preponderance in bollywood by asserting that “well, you only have good-looking people in your films in america, so of course we’ll have light-skinned women in our films.”
fifth, the contempt that a north indian showed toward a south indian re: food in terms of restaurant choice in reference to a bunch of white people is a pretty explicit demonstration of one major dynamic among ABDs: white people are the standard. north indians look “whiter” and so they can trade in on that supposed affinity (i.e., speaking an indo-aryan language, etc.). whites of course don’t distinguish too much between north and south indians, let alone arabs and brown people, so of course this has to be a pro-active differentiation on the part of the north indian (“look, i’m like you, this nose his thicker, his skin darker, my skin might be the color of shit, but it is a light diarrhea color, not thick dark healthy shit color”).
of course, there is the reality that there are differences between populations. i just think it is a somewhat true that some north indians need to dial it back a bit in terms of emphasizing those differences to make southies seem like greasy black monkeys (when a lot of north indians are greasy black monkeys too if you want to use the metrics accurately), or, to assume that south indians should be totally fluent in north indian culture (or that north indian culture is the universal standard, e.g., all brownz must know hindi). people can be self-satisified in their own superiority without having to broadcast it all the time, just makes you look primitive and insecure.
p.s. when i go to a big city i get spoken too in urdu or hindi now and then. mostly people are being friendly, but it isn’t always where you’d expect. one time at a fast food joint a young girl (mebee 17?) tried to speak to me in hindi. i said i knew bengali only, and she laughed and said, “oh, ok,” with a perfect american accent.
p.p.s. when is said i doubt south indians aren’t any better, here is an example that is more clear about the dynamics at work. i was reading about dalit social movements, and it was noted that north indian dalits from UP were not totally comfortable being classified together with south indian dalits. you see, south indian dalits are the lowest of the low in the hierarchy. north indian dalits might be untouchables, but at least they are indo-aryan untouchables! similarly, ambedkar was asked once if his people (mahars i believe) in maharashtra were the aboriginals who were there before the indo-aryans showed up. his response was “that is a hypothesis.” he didn’t dismiss, but it seems that he didn’t want to accept it either when anthropologically that seems to obviously be the most likely case (he had an econ ph.d., i think he could think through the social history OK).
“”English, motherfucker, do you speak it?”.”
Wher’s the R-man when you need him
Sounds like a messed up flight experience, I’da rather been on this plane
On how Bollywood represents Southies and how Northies ridicule Southies and how skin color plays into the conditioned mate choice of the North Indian female – I cannot resist linking in the song ‘Ek Chatur Naar’ from Padosan. The South Indian is played by Mehmood, who also directs the movie, and Kishore Kumar provides the on-screen playback. Both the Mehmood character and the guy in the cap who is singing (a Northie) are interested in the woman. The song is also an example of a cacophonic Carnatic-Hindustani medley, and a cinematographical achievement as well as containing many highly non-PC insults directed at the South Indian (including ‘go wash your face’). Some context is provided by the person who posted the video, more can be gotten by googling. I am not aware of any other movie or song which so starkly placed the North-South issue in Indian society as this one tried to do, and with a combination of sarcasm, satire and plain old humor. (If you’re wondering, in the end, the Northie gets the girl.) 🙂
pingpong, that was very sexy 😉 but as to your english – what if one goes commando?
as to the co-passenger – this is why half the time i hate knowing hindi – because knowing it, my initial instinct is to reply in hindi. but sometimes i pretend. what i hate is the assumption, really – if somebody deigns to ask me whether or not i actually speak hindi, rather than presume i know it, i am far less irritated.
South Dakota
Commando? Insinuating innuendo? Insinuendo!
Very true. A Belgian friend of mine (Flemish) said that a similar situation exists in Belgium, with many tourists assuming that everyone speaks French. Apparently many Flemish residents also speak French in addition to Dutch, but hate to be confused with the French-speaking Walloons. A good habit for tourists who speak French but not Dutch is to ask whether the person minds speaking in French before launching into a monologue.
Largely the same thing seems to exist through a large part of continental Europe (especially rural areas off the tourist map) regarding English – even if you speak the local language in a broken way, a French farmer is likely to provide better help than if you speak directly in English. Thus I live and learn.
I wonder if that guideline applies to Samuel L. Jackson though. He might still order “a Big Mac” instead of “le Big Mac”.
Very true. A Belgian friend of mine (Flemish) said that a similar situation exists in Belgium, with many tourists assuming that everyone speaks French. Apparently many Flemish residents also speak French in addition to Dutch, but hate to be confused with the French-speaking Walloons.
interesting parallel with brownz: in belgium the flemmish areas were marginalized and backward, the french areas were the dominant economic and cultural powerhouses until the post-world war II era. now that there is turnabout there’s a lot of problems because the french speakers still maintain a self-perception that they’re the identity that the flemmings have to assimilate too (there are many francophone families in brussels who are of flemmish origin, a residue of this history of dominance of the french-speaking element). the flemmings in contrast resent the economic parasitism of the french areas now that they are down and out (mining and what not was big there), and of course they have produced the most prominent far-right parties in europe of late….
(some of the anti-flemmish prejudice in terms of language was pretty extreme considering that they’re around 1/2 of the population. i believe that a while back it was sometimes mandatory that courts in flemmish speaking areas use french)
my parents used to have 3 parties a year: one for the south indians, one for the north, and one for the americans
Well said.. it’s not really a north-south problem. Even in Tamil movies, dark skin is ridiculed as ugly.. I think there is a problem with the “value system” that treats “dark skin” as ugly and “white skin” as beautiful. You could see the worst attacks on dark skin and stereotypes in “Goundamani Senthil comedies (famous tamil comedy duo)”. It is digusting to see the “blatant white skin craze” portrayed in the recent super hit “Sivaji”..
Regarding the portrayal of south indians in Hindi movies, dingchak said correctly in #156,
No one (except in certain pockets of cities) watches Hindi movies in Tamilnadu and not many are worried about the portrayal. It would probably hurt for those settled outside but not a big deal for locals. Ofcourse we do ridicule north indians in Tamil movies.. .. Everyone who speaks Hindi at home is called a “settu” and comes in for good treatment..
Looks like almost all the experiences narrated are from the south Indians who suffered in the North. In my college there was a bunch of North Indians and if you ask them they’d tell the other side of the story..
I think I’m missing context: were these three parties all to celebrate the same occasion or were they completely different events?
they were all for my bris. man, was i sore.
seriously pingpong, they were completely different events.
hm. so you’re a surgically created manjuette?
Next Hugh Grant movie: “Three Parties and a Circumcision”.