It’s been an adjustment, to experience this website’s growth and witness our readership change. People leave, others join, many lurk. While I miss some of our now-absent personalities who were prolific with their pondering (Punjabi Boy, Jai Singh, DesiDancer and Espressa come to mind), I’m thrilled about our new commenters, who are expanding our discussion and bringing their unique points of view to our cacophonous, rowdy, online adda. I’m especially looking at our first-gen contributors, like Runa and Malathi, because for stories like the one I’m trying to blog, I think their perspective is invaluable, for helping us find nuance and context. What I’m trying to say is, HELP.
Al Mujahid for Debauchery left this on our news tab:
Unbelievable. Pakistani actor Moin Akhtar (a muhajir/Indian origin himself) plays Hyderabadis from India in blackface in this ‘comedy’ show.
Wait, WHAT? And here is where the DBDs come in, because I don’t understand the clip below or know who these actors are, and as I’ve stated before, I like to get as much information as possible before I get my outrage on– and believe me, I could rage about actors in blackface.
What on earth is going on? And would someone who watches desi tv please tell me that this an uncommon practice? I fast forwarded through the clip, but I don’t get the greasy, huge-black-glasses-equipped, buck-toothed character, and by “don’t get”, I mean my spider sense is tingling. What, if anything, do all of you know?
This is lamentable, in fact disgusting. But I can’t help but notice that similar outrage was lacking when Angelina Jolie donned brownface for her latest film, a Mighty heart.
I didn’t see the movie, so it didn’t even occur to me that they’d do more than slap some bronzer on her, since Marianne is mixed:
It’s an interesting point. Was Jolie in “brownface”? And where do we draw the line for what’s considered inappropriate, since acting is supposed to be about transformation etc?
Mujahir: An Urdu speaking person who went over to Pakistan from India during partition, like Musharraf. Their children now born in Pakistan are also identified as Muhajirs.
Somebody emailed this clip from ‘You Tube’. What you have here is the host ‘Anwar Maqsood’ who talks to his 2 guests ‘Moin Akhter’ and the other dude ‘Jaavid Jaaferi’ about an ongoing cricket series between India and Pakistan. The guests ‘Moin Akhtar’ and ‘Jaavid Jaaferi’ are playing the characters of two Hyderabadis. One of them has supposedly come over from Hyderabad, India to watch cricket while the other one is a Pakistani Hyderabadi (his parents supposedly came over from Hyderabad during partition)
This is ostensibly a comedic show where the two guests are playing silly caricatures of Hyderabadis. Their Apu like put on Hyderabadi Urdu accent is ridiculous and they are covered in blackface because Hyderabadis are supposed to be dark compared to an average Pakistani.
Hyderabadis are generally subjected to ridicule in popular Pakistani culture for their dark skin and Hyderabadi accented Urdu.
Thanks for the additional info, Al. Very helpful!
I was unaware of this.
And Al I totally agree with the accent, not that is has not been done before (south indians who speak hindi), but I think blackface is a bit much.
Speaking of blackface hyderabadis, why not covert the taslima Nasreen incident in Hyderabad. First she is attacked by elected state officials (MLAs from the MIM Mujlis -e- Ittehadul Muslimeen (MIM)) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0dzt8SFg9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkegL2C7XSQ
and then the police register a case against her.
And Al I totally agree with the accent, not that is has not been done before (south indians who speak hindi), but I think blackface is a bit much.
I dont know about the accuracy of the accent. It sounds way over the top to me. The Punjabis in Pakistan also speak accented Urdu but are not subjected to similar ridicule. The Blackface is outright racist. There is no other way to put it.
Al, what I meant was that, I agree with your point about the accent. It is a little bit over the top.
Jolie’s brownface was not done to ridicule the character who is her friend in real life. I did read about some Pakistanis wanting to identify themselves closer to Arabs than Indians(culturally and racially) because of some fucked up complex that Arabs are superior to Indians. Maybe this is where the color issue fits in .
I cannot find the video on You Tube right now but I know of at least one Hindi Movie with Mahmood where he portrayed an Hyderbadi with the blackface and the accent. Can’t remember the name right now..
So there is a racist element in the Pakistani stance toward India generally?
i think being un-PC is so far down the list of things in south asia, that people are concerned with 900 other things before political correctness matters.
Why not? Because we are on hiatus, which means that our posting volume is considerably lower, several bloggers are taking much-needed and deserved time off and thus, we cover less than we normally would. Our not blogging it is not a statement of our opinion on it…or anything else for that matter.
Here’s a general sort of point, not aimed at you, though I appreciate your asking your question if it means I get to clarify process:
I’m very concerned about the Nasreen incident, but please understand that certain posts take a great amount of time to research and then write; a post like this one about blackface, which is relatively brief and simple still took me 30 minutes. I’d rather not blog something important, than do a shitty job with it, just so we can fulfill some non-existent standard for being on top of all things desi/conform to unrealistic and unfair expectations of us and what we are currently capable of handling.
Blackface is racist and outrageous, but somewhat par-for-the-course in a region where you can still find people obsessed with skin color. By this measure, 99% of all matrimonial ads will qualify as racist.
Anna, Thanks for the shout out. I cannot see /hear the entire clip right now but since you asked 🙂
Jave Jaffrey is an Indian actor, son of the once famous Jagdeep .You may remember him from Deepa Mehta’s “Fire”This is not the first time that Javed Jaffery has performed blackface . He used to have an ongoing skit on Chanel V where he played many roles : including one where he was “Vengeance Veerappan” in blackface representing a supposedly “South Indian ” character.
I hate to say this but this brings back unpleasant memories. Hindi film in India itself are ripe with depictions of South Indians by North or -worse- South Indian actors in blackface perpetuating some imagined stereotype.( For example: Mehmood in several films such as Gumnaam ) .What is infinitely worse is that , even today, there is this percpetion among “North Indians ” about what South Indians look/talk like. I just went through this 2 days ago with some far off relatives from my ( Punjabi) Husband’s family, who tried to convince me that I do not look “Madrasi” because ,you know, South Indians are Dravidians ( as opposed to North Indian “Aryans”) and are therefore dark with curly hair.See the racisal overtones?Bah!
In short: This practice is not completely unheard of, is definitely less common than it once was ( one hopes – though remember the fiasco again with cricket and the “blackface” portrayal of West Indians in an Indian ad during the World Cup that was blogged here?)
I remember a Pakistani student at my college who made it her business to broadcast far and wide that Pakistanis had ruled India (she has calmed down since), while I grew up hearing that most Desi Muslims are descended from Hindu converts, with a few of the elite families with Mughal ancestry being mixed. Who are Hyderabadis supposed to be in the Pakistani reckoning of things?
Runa: Is it common for Indian actors to act in Pakistani tv shows and vice versa?
From what I understand it is becoming more common from Pakistanis to show up on Indian screens. In fact recently there was some Pakistani actress who had to go back because something was wrong with her visa(I think) and there was a lot of coverage in the Indian media about it.
What’s with the hating on “PC” (I think you mean being PC and not un-PC)? Things didn’t become PC by random fiat from someone. These are things that some people cared deeply about (and many continue to do so). Most “PC” came out of someone or the other being badly hurt by some social practice.
Notice no one shows off about being PC. “un-PC” though is a huge badge of honor. In fact, there’s little that is more politically correct and in fashion than being un-PC.
I’m not condoning this but i’m curious…what is the difference between this type of comedy and what Carlos Mencia does on his shows here in the US?
doesn’t he do many skits that are boderline rascists and stereotypical in the name of comedy also? and is that deemed offensive cos as i can see he is very popular on comedy central.
just curious to people thoughts…
Appalling. We already know that racism is rife within South Asia & the South Asian diaspora. The question is, how do we combat it?
ACD,
Not to my knowledge.Actually ,I was surprised to see Javed J on a Pakistani TV show. I may be outdated in my info but about 7-8 years ago the only crossover was via movies not TV (Raj Kapoor’s Henna had a Pakistani female actor in a lead,Salma Agha from Pakistan acted in a few Hindi movies) .Recently Meera – a Pakistani actor – faced a lot of flak in Pakistan for acting in Hindi movies.Mohsin Khan ( who played criket for Pakistan) acted in a few unwatchable Hindi movies. Bal Thackeray of the Shiv Sena actually madeba big noise about having Pak Actors in Hindi cinema when Indian cinema itself is banned in Pakistan.( I apologize for the link but that will give you some idea of the rubbish he spouts!)
oh. im not saying PC is a bad thing. im just saying that there is so much more warped out stuff that goes down in pakistan that being politically correct is REALLY far down the priority list. i mean, its a country with $hit loads of alQ combined with law and order problems, nuclear weapons combined with an unstable government, etc, etc….
should have a VH1 style “Sepia Mutiny: Where are they now?”
I am indifferent to the brownface incident – but wanted to drop in and thank Al C. I saw the accompanying ‘bihari’ skit and that was hilarious. You need to be bosom buddies with a bihari person and understand rustic hindi well to understand it though.
I am very pleased. I shall pick the grapes off the haunches of this houri now and rejoice. – plucks, plops, chews thoughtfully and sighs in pleasure. Ahhh!
I’m also curious– does he do these skits in blackface?
what about that movie where the wayans brothers, i think, put on whiteface to play some women, i think? not saying that’s racist, but where does that stand?
Arre yaar, it was just a comedy show. Light lo!
Last comment. I just finished the behari sketch. Oh Come onn! guys – the comic timing is cracking. The easier jokes are the exchanges on the red shirt and the empty mug – the other ones need me to think over. This is the best comic repartee i’ve seen in a while – rivals GGM as original southasian humor and yet is not bawdy or slapstick… dude Al C! i am in your debt old frrrooti.
🙂
:- ) )
Also curious about Travolta playing Divine playing suburban mom ;p
Anna #25,
Yes he does, see this. Also I believe Amitabh Bachchan did something similar in Desh Premi, will link to the song as soon as I find it.
Kurma @19, difference to me is between racism and PCness. Racism is absolutely combatted when people stand up and change the things that have been hurting them or their communities. But, having just graduated from an uppity liberal college in the NE, sometimes the pendulum swings so far the other way that Politcal Correctness is actually damaging. I went to school with people who were conditioned to shut down and not talk about race, class, sexuality etc out of fear of offending somebody. Sometimes that fear is good (if it gets the racists and homophobes to think twice) and I’ll be the first to say racism or any action or policty that hurt groups shouldn’t be tolerated. There also has to be a space where it’s OK to ask questions, engage and learn – i think that’s where the trend against PCness began.
As for Jolie, the ‘brownface’ wasn’t done to ridicule like black face is, as Pravin said. Since Maryanne Pearl was brown, I felt a brown actress could have played her instead of Jolie (of course Angelina brings in more money). There’s been a long divide and struggle in Hollyood to get non-white actors in leading roles and big movies, not just ‘Norbit.’ A great movie comes along with a natural opportunity to cast a brown actress (even if they couldn’t find the right mix of brown, Janina Gavankar plays a latina in the L Word), but Jolie was cast instead. I like Jolie but we’re not at a place in America where I believe she was the best actress for the role regardless of color, because it rarely works the other way around (but hey, Dr. Bailey on Grey’s was written for a petite, white woman so you never know).
And would someone who watches desi tv please tell me that this an uncommon practice?
Well, there was this example of a Hindi show using blackface. I’m not sure if that is a regular skit on the show or if there are others (since I have spent approximately 45 minutes of my life watching desi TV).
More like black-face. Even the lyrics say that.
Amit,
That is exactly what I had in mind. Thanks for looking it up
I tried watching the clip. Was too bored to get even outraged. I couldnt understand what they were saying, but I could follow the body language which is commonly used in Indian movies to make fun of another group. It is not isolated to Pakistanis making fun of Hyderabadis.
About the only jokes that truly offended me upon reflection were the “dumb Sikh” jokes. The worst is when adults would say them. I wish I was older to know better at the time. If someone makes a dumb Sikh joke now, I will either make a joke making fun of them or just give them a piece of my mind or I will just spoil the mood by asking “so when do you get to the funny part?”
speaking of janina gavankar, has anyone been to msdewey.com? she is such a prick! i searched for al qaeda and she threatened to turn me over to the justice department.
Just wanted to clarify that I posted the link to the song without any judgment one way or the other on this issue. In the song (and bit of a context), AB and HM have their faces painted black as part of a disguise.
What an interesting debate…
I don’t have much to add, other than that the documentary Ethnic Notions is a great place to start for some background on the history and connotations of blackface in the US…
This is disgusting, but I don’t understand the surprise. Indo-Punjabis generally do make fun of S. Indians about color etc, why would Pak-Punjabis be any different? Comic relief in Indian movies often takes the shape of a dark skinned person. I do find it odd however when I see S. Indians taking issue with the characterization of us as darker etc. On average, excepting Brahmins who probably constitute less than 5% of the population, we S. Indians are darker than Punjabis. We should embrace this and fight against the negative portrayal of black skinned people instead
Runa: Is it common for Indian actors to act in Pakistani tv shows and vice versa?
Irrespective of what political relations India and Pakistan might have….Bollywood has always lured Pakistan actors and actresses, singers…..it goes back to Nazia Hussian (she was a singer, and a huge sensation in her day), Salma Agha, and even before in 50-60s. A lot of Pakistani actresses are on Indian TV too. They (actors, actresses, song writers, singers) are most welcome if they make money for the producer in Mumbai, as simple as that.
.
A few Indian actors act in Pakistan too – Nasseruddin Shah is in the recent Pakistani movie that Abhi blogged few days ago, Manisha Koirala is going to direct a movie in Pakistan. Khamoshi Pani – probably one of the best Pakistani movie – it is a German-Irish production though, directed by an expat Pakistani woman director – has almost more than half the cast from India.
Number wise…..the scales are tipped in favor of Pakistanis working Indian entertainment industry.
I think that the difference, in this case, is power dynamics. Punjabis in Pakistan have historically had greater control of government office, etc. Meanwhile, Punjabis in India have been relentlessly ridiculed/lampooned in Indian popular media until the last 10-15 years (and we’re still often a “caricature” or the villain). It’s not because one kind of Punjabi is better or worse, but it’s because of who holds power. Not that this justifies this kind of behavior, but I think it explains a bit of the differences.
I think the main element that makes this offensive is that there is an element of derision and there are imbalanced power dynamics at play. It’s easy to make racist jokes about Southies, or about “poorer” (whether politically, economically, or just in terms of media influence) northern states (e.g. Bihar). Either way it’s reprehensible. Largely because there is no alternative dialogue, it’s little better than bullying.
I actually find Carlos Mencia to be generally racist and unfunny. I think you walk a fine line doing race-oriented comedy in the U.S., and in most cases he fails for me (both for his jokes re: Latinos, but also for his really offensive jokes re: desis).
Oh, the dumb Sikh jokes. These are my favorite (I mean that sarcastically) — especially when paired with the idea that we are all drunken dancing idiots.
I actually find this really interesting because, as mentioned, it’s not like Indo-Punjabis have had the easiest time in popular media, either. I clearly grew up in an insulated family (no real regional judgment/stereotypes), so it’s interesting to me that the humor of one maligned group operates by maligning another group.
Some previous posts on the subject of blackface:
Be bold if you want to succeed Burnt Cork and Grease Paint Selling race
Out of curiosity, are people from North India ridiculed with over the top caricatures in popular culture in South India?
Now that I think about it, Hyderabadis are also ridiculed by Urdu speakers in both Delhi/UP and Karachi so the ‘Loose Talk’ comedy probably has a more of a Hyderabadi/South Indian versus the rest flavor to it than a Muhajir versus Non-Muhajir angle.
Do you mean all Punjabis or specifically Punjabi Sikhs have difficulty ?
I would say Punjabis until the early 1980s, and Punjabi Sikhs across the broader timespan (1970s-late 90s). Even today, the fully-turbaned Sikh male is usually a “fool” kind of character, whereas Sahejdari Sikhs are cast as heroes.
see…and i thought that punjabis dominated pop culture in india…is that just indian american culture?
Punjabis do NOT dominate in film or popular representation. We do dominate in Bollywood singers, but I think that’s because so many people trained in Punjab. Maybe I am being narrow, though, as louciecypher mentioned, and thinking specifically of Punjabi Sikhs. In the context of Indian-American culture, we dominate in terms of food and dance (I mean, when people say “Indian food” they often think CTM, and when they think “dance” they think bhangra), but that also varies by region. But what does it mean to “dominate” culturally when this is divorced from from other manifestations of authority or influence?
Not that I am aware of. Except that people will parrot Sikh (i.e. Sardarji)jokes, but I’ve never seen that on TV or movies
Dudes, Woe is me has started. Let us do collective wailing……give me a break.
Every group, caste, and religion in entertainment industry has stereotypes. Even our pal, Shakespeare had it too.
If there is a group that tops that list in Bollywood is: A Baniya (Trader Caste) or Jamedhar (Landlord).
Almost 90% of the time, the rapist, loan shark, exploiting the heroes mother (All AB movies in 70/80s) is a baniya.
Roshan Seth, Dabbar Seth…..I can list 100s of them…….baniya being the bad guy. Not only Bollywood, even art house movies from Shyam Benegal et al. were often Baniya/ Jamedhar-exploitation based movies.
Let us all wail……one, two, three.