The FBI is apparently being proactive in doing its job by laying out specific scenarios on its website that employers can learn from in order to prevent spying and generally help keep our nation safe (via Wired). Here is one fearful scenario:
You hire a foreign-born engineer who has been educated in this country. Over a 10-15 year period, she rises to mid-level management. Then, she returns to her home country—where she gets paid by that government to set up a business that competes with yours.
The key there is “foreign-born.” It doesn’t matter if you have been educated in this country from an early age or even if you are a Greencard holder. If you are foreign-born then employers should watch out for you because you may sell good Americans out to your Motherland. That’s scary. If I was an employer I might instead hire someone that looks American…just to be safe. Here is another one:
A series of university students and professors from overseas take jobs in research labs on campus and get involved in related military projects. Individually, they learn only bits and pieces. But collectively, when they pass that information back to their home country, it paints a telling picture of our country’s defense initiatives.
Good advice. The next time I see a group of “FOBs” eating lunch together I am going to consider them a “collective.” But wait, what if someone thinks that I’m foreign born when they see me sitting with a group of other desis at school! Qué Malo!
The FBI is willing to help by offering a training program (or something) to spot these collectives, or sleeper cells, or whatever…
Specifically: Join our Counterintelligence Domain Program or our Research and Technology Protection program.
Amazing what helpful advice you find on websites paid for by your tax dollars. I hope no foreign born readers visit Sepia Mutiny. Individually they can’t do us any harm but collectively they could use the knowledge they gain here to paint a telling picture of how we operate and then make the blogs of their own countries better.
POS FBI!! I love that this is what we focus on in this country; not the KKK, not counter-intelligence. Nope, God forbid a foreigner even presumes to do anything in the U.S., particularly anything academic. Oh, but wait, we don’t let folks in unless they fulfill specific academic standards. Hmmmm. Abhi, what are the odds that this apply to Danish or French researchers?
Excuse me while I go vomit.
Abhi, are you now or have you ever been a member of the Indian ethnic group?
Two observations:
1) Espionage happens–in industry, at universities, and in the military.
2) It is the FBI’s job to stop espionage.
So how would you do the FBI’s job? It seems to me a reasonable thing to do would be to approach potential targets of espionage and tell them about past scams you’ve seen, and how they’ve worked, and tell them to be vigilant. Is that terribly unreasonable?
Isn’t Lockheed subcontracting to Boeing who is subcontracting to Lockheed who is further subcontracting to Boeing..which finally ends up with Kannan and Kumar writing the code for the microchip in the B-2? So whats the big deal here? Do you really need to get your chuddies in a knot?
and some of them are communicating** with the mother ship.
**re..Ian Frazier’s meteorite piece(pun intended)
Camile, The FBI is doing their job. They are not only focused on this, or looking at people who have Muslim names. Have you heard of the Gowadia case?
Rajesh, I’m familiar with the case. My point is that I doubt this is being applied across the board. Similar to the FBI advice on “how to identify a drug trafficker,” their focus on a person’s demographic obscures methods that have been found more effective, e.g. keeping one’s eyes open to criminal behavior. There’s a difference between watching “foreigners” and watching people who are behaving suspiciously.
Is’nt giving an example of she something un-usual?
Is’nt giving an example of she something un-usual?
Not all foreigners are should be considered potential terrorists. There’s got to be a way for a desi to put himself above suspicion. Sure, the bar is going to be higher for a foreginer than for an American. But surely, what if we got some advanced degrees in the US and then worked hard and rose in our job to some good positions – that should provide some degree of comfort to others who are so jumpy. That puts me above board, right? Right? Er…
Oh wait, this is not just about foreigners. It’s even foreign-born Americans?
Can nothing make you people happy?
With geniuses like this fighting America’s war on terror, I fear for the safety of this country’s people.
Qué Malo!
You starting to sound like one of those other immigrants.
Perhaps you are being negatively influenced…
Free market, capitalism, competition… so what? I thought that was the stuff America was made of?
Oh, Federal Bureau of Investigation! Ha! Ha! Ha! You’re so coy! Why don’t you just come right out and say it:
“BROWN PEOPLE ARE A THREAT TO THIS COUNTRY.”
There! Was that so hard? Or are you afraid that announcing your strategy will foil your efforts to win the War on Terror? Oh, c’mon now, it’s not much of a secret! That’s one of the many delightful principles this great nation was founded on, am I right?
The Bush Administration: Making you that much more ashamed of your country, since 2001.
bangs head against desk repeatedly
We be the model/motel minority! We are Southies of a different kind.
Do not even think of confusing us for Mexicans just because we speak espanish! In fact, I pick up my spanish words from Telugu movie songs such as “Hey chiquita, como estas?”. It’s that Indian now.
I’m brown above in #16. I’m brown all over.
protect your businesses. protect your defense systems. protect your country from brown!
together we will conquer. be scared, be very scared.
Abhi, will you come to regret this post (and your rampant pot use in college) when you are passed over by NASA for the first wave of Mars colonizers?
Camile, There’s a difference between watching “foreigners” and watching people who are behaving suspiciously.
What you stated is exactly what the FBI does. Remember they are talking to employers asking them to do what they (FBI) are not allowed to do, thereby leaving no stone unturned to uncover someone or just be proactive.
The FBI is more restricted by rules, no profiling ect. This is because they operate within the USA. On the occasion that they go overseas they have to be invited and work through that country’s law enforcement agency.
We in the military have no such restrictions since we do not operate domesticaly. Security is sometimes so high that people in uniform are physically checked by Marines and the like, regardless of rank. I can’t go into detail eventhough I am retired. Nuf said.
Camille, I love that this is what this country focuses on, when New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are still a shambles. Good assministration priorities at work, baby.
I wonder how the FBI profiles someone like this.
Maitri, this is for other employers, not the FBI. How much damage can a gun-loving, pro-life, uber-religious, white man do?
Actually the sub-text to me is, “Boys, if you really want to preserve your nuts, dont keep the foreign born wunderkind outside the executive suite. Keep Asok happy and grow with him. Piss him off is like groping a scimitar brandishing Kali. Here’s what the industry is doing – send Asok off to India to set up the off-shore unit. That’s a win-win for all.
When did the FBI go communist on us?
Thats a pretty simplistic solution to counter espionage. In so many words its another way of saying ‘hire local’. Now thats a fool proof way to prevent spying and competition. Maybe they should outsource secret service to the Israelis.
Matri, The FBI is not allowed to pofile, this is why they asked employers. What is your point on Hansen. He was was being watched for a long time. When the leak was discovered another FBI agent was wrongly accused. Yes they were focused on the wrong person also ‘white’.
Disclaimer: this post is not to be taken to question my patriotism to America
Being a fan of Hollywood thriller movies – Come on lets be frank…..FBI is doing its jobs. The foreign born spies are doing their job just like their American counterparts ( read CIA ). How do you think the CIA collects foreign intelligence ? By reading Indian/foreign blogs ? It also operates effectively in foreign countries in the guise of diplomats, business leaders, NGO’s, front companies, embassy attachees etc. etc. And btw read this interesting news on Indian CIA agent operating in India who ran away to America. Well btw what I fear most is if FBI starts putting everything abouts it tactics on its websites will it become more difficult for CIA to operate in foreign countries because then they can learn how to catch CIA agents in foreign lands
Rahul, I am also a gun loving gun collecting Hindu redneck hillbilly, living in West Virginia. I love shooting.
Rajesh Harricharan said:
this @ #6:
and this @ #20:
In doing so, Rajesh, you neatly avoid the question, “Why is this a job for the FBI ?” Why must tax dollars be spent in persuading, convincing, or arm-twisting businesses into a dubious regime of policing research that is happening in the unclassified realm ? Presumably, businesses already know how to protect their R&D without subscribing to the paranoiacally xenophobic style that has come into vogue in the FBI these days. As for the lady “who returns to her home country…”; isn’t it a touch paranoid to model Asian-born R&D executives as spies just because their home-country governments have decided to engage in venture-capitalism (a perfectly respectable thing, BTW) ?
I’m going to stick my neck out a bit and allege, Rajesh, that you are largely unaware of how science is done. The work that my colleagues and I do can be put to such uses as making a more powerful thermonuclear bomb, subverting the data-stream that keeps precision-guided munitions on course, designing systems that would paralyse submarine navigation, etc. But we prefer to regard our work as something that adds to human culture. Spying on foreign-born colleagues – even given the minor benefit of trapping a few bad apples – is widely regarded by professionals as an unacceptable drag on the task of adding to the store of human knowledge.
I am also FBI (Foreign Born Indian) and I am watching you…
Really? I thought I was the only one. Except I like spying on all the IT-contract workers from Chennai who live in my apt. complex. They are obviously hiding trade secrets in their tubes of Neem toothpaste, which they carry back to their spymaster, code-name “Amma.” I think this spymaster then gives them instructions, cleverly etched onto something called a “masala thosai”
Right. Because as we all know, that webpage represents the sum total of all the FBI’s activities in any field ever.
Speedy
Do you think the FBI just made up these scenarios out of whole cloth? These fictional scenarios are based on real spying cases. It is incredibly naive to think that these things don’t happen. They happen all the time. The student scenarios are particularly true of Chinese students. The ChiComs are actively recruiting spies among the student populations. This is all in Jeff Gertz’s book Enemies.
Hasn’t anybody read James Bond? The Cold War was Euro-profile with a few Red Chinese in the mix, plus the odd Che Guevara-type. Indians have only recently entered the field. While waiting to be fingerprinted for my badge in a government building, there were pictures announcing the downside of spying, namely sentences averaging 50 years. All the mug shots were of white guys, most of whom I had heard of. There is a profile they watch for among whites too. They don’t really want to waste time and it is more often cultural ignorance than racism that drives certain policy, but individuals may be guilty. You’d think they’d have more Arabic and Urdu speakers. If they just knew more about who they were really looking for, we’d have much less unpleasantness. Now the Israelis seem to know what they doing, but offend countless people in the meantime. btw, in contrast to the baroque profile of a gun-totin’ West Virginian, that state only ranks 47 among 50 states in total crime index, 2005. http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/wvcrime.htm
Wow, one of my news tips finally made it to being a post! yay
10: ” There’s got to be a way for a desi to put himself above suspicion. “
Unfortunately the ‘Indian doctors’ involved in the British bombings have wiped away ALL our privileges. We used to be able to hide behind ‘Hey, I might look middle-eastern, but I’m Indian …’ or ‘Hey, I have a PhD .. i’m not a stupid terrorist’ , but all that is gone, and it is terribly, terribly sad. 🙁
We must direct our anger towards the intelligent assholes from our country who screwed our name over… the FBI very often indulges in knee-jerk responses, but frankly, the terrorists have taken away all our reasons to protest the FBI anymore. They can now get away with doing whatever the hell they want, because well qualified doctors and aeronautical engineers from Bangalore attempted to blow themselves up in UK.
I have to agree with you Randomizer…its easy to direct our resentment toward the FBI, but really their first concern is national security…our security. As a Muslim and a foreign born citizen, I am ok with the extra precautions. I had relatives that died in the World Trade Center. The people who are plotting and committing mass homicide in the U.S. don’t really care what race, religion they kill, as long as it is American. Balancing political correctness and proper security measures is not easy, but so far I think the government has tried to handle it with some dignity. We have come a long way since the treatment of the Japanese after Pearl Harbor.
well, i’m not really sure that i had any flying privileges as a south asian male 18-33–however no facial hair and a sharp suit seems to reduce the chance of getting randomly selected.
Well this would work if we had magical jihadi-locator rings, perhaps located in my next box of cheerios. Outside of someone showing you a decapitation video and warning you to pray more regularly or else, I doubt there’s any actual targets for the aforementioned anger.
The FBI’s likely approach in these circumstances is infuriating because there’s really no earthly way to find the next stereotype-busting terrorist.
Ditto: to vc and whyspy
after there have been whyte terr0rists, you would think they would be profiling american born whyte guys….oh…we wouldnt want to impinge on their liberties…
@muralimannered: “The FBI’s likely approach in these circumstances is infuriating because there’s really no earthly way to find the next stereotype-busting terrorist”
While the FBI is definitely guilty of looking at every brown man as a terrorist and I have no excuses for them, I’m definitely a lot more pissed off at my ‘fellow Indian’ who put our nation and the wonderful city of Bangalore on the Terror map.
It doesn’t have to be the sum total. A stupid idea like this being part of activities is bad enough. Look, what business does the FBI have protecting “Cutting edge U.S. management practices” (go the linked FBi site on Wired) and trying to scare companies that their competition in other countries will get ahead of them?
Look no one is disputing that the FBI should indeed try to stop terrorist s (and we should help any way we can). What are you guys reading in that article that makes you think this move is helping in any way? I feel that they are wasting their time by focussing on the wrong group!
Think about the fact that foreign-born Americans have not been excluded from this list. Does that bother anyone?
the fbi’s advice encourages illegal discrimination based on national origin. Further, it assumes the impossibility of domestic terrorism.
No.
Rajesh, you are more than welcome to believe that racial profiling is valid, but successful law enforcement groups would argue otherwise. The key is to look for suspicious behavior, and this behavior should not be dictated by one’s assumptions around race or national origin because it ignores all the other factors that play a more significant role. I’m sure these anecdotes are based on reality, but the choice of anecdotes offers the underlying assumption that specific types of foreign-born citizens and immigrants promote these problems. They are not referring to Cold War-era hype. Did you see Germans placed in camps during WWII in the U.S.? No, it happened to the Japanese. Similarly, I am sure that employers are not looking at Lars when they envision this scenario. There is a reason for the legal protections that discourage race-based FBI-spying, and I think it is reprehensible to encourage employers to engage in an illegal activity because you are too lazy to do your job properly.
Lars! I knew it was Lars! Speaking of which, I remember reading that one of the Metallica drummers did get stopped at an airport in the last couple of days because he had a scary looking beard.
Metalliban.
Thank you, Rahul. I kept trying to post a comment linking to that little tidbit yesterday, but the comment engine kept kicking it out.
To all the nutball FBI apologists out there: are you seriously going to try and convince people that it’s a good idea for the FBI to encourage corporations to police their workers for terrorist activity?
Are you out of your tiny little minds? There’s a reason why we entrust law enforcement to LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. I mean, I barely trust most companies to find ways to make money. That’s why I make a decent living as a consultant. You think they’re going to do a bang-up job of finding terrists?
Look, if an executive or manager or employee finds reason to believe that he’s working with a bunch of terrists, there’s no barrier to calling the FBI. There never has been. But encouraging companies to buy into the nutty xenophobic group think that there are threats everywhere, and all we need to do is keep our eyes peeled for those terrible horrible H1B workers microwaving their rasam in the breakroom (chemical attack? hello?) who are clearly conspiring to kill everyone or at least take their jobs back to their homeland so they can set up a…a…what? A Home Depot? A McDonald’s-style franchise? A search-engine company? An oil-exploration and refining operation? What the hell are they talking about?
It’s legal for someone to come to this country, learn how to do business, and take that knowledge back home to their motherland. Americans may not like it…but it’s legal. It’s called “global competition” and it’s what America is supposed to be in favor of, remember?
What
The Frontline article (posted by Priya #27) describes how the CIA mole in our very own RAW gave himself away:
“Rabinder Singh’s energetic use of his office photocopier had attracted the attention of his subordinate staff…..�
It is an extension of the “I am here; now shut the door behind me attitude.” (I think I read that one-liner on SM. So here i am, adapting it to the current context).
In other words, I’m OK because of _____ (insert undisclosed, underlying reason(s) here), so I couldn’t care less about others who actually may be more vulnerable than me.
What if he was just doing this?
Maybe you are looking for apres moi le deluge?