This is what a Feminist looks like.

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Daddy's Girl.jpg

Exactly 32.5 years ago, a short man with a fearsome moustache stood at a nursery window, tears in his eyes, pride bordering on arrogance spilling forth via his words.

“See her? The one with the huge eyes? That’s my daughter.”

The strangers standing near him congratulated him and politely made remarks about his newborn’s full head of hair and yes, her eyes, which were peering around suspiciously as if she were casing her bassinet, planning a possible escape.

“She was alert, when she was born. She didn’t cry. She…uh…she takes after me. Strong.”

He cleared his throat and complained about the dust, using his ever-present handkerchief to wipe his eyes swiftly.

“Look at the other babies…they are oblivious. They’re nothing compared to her.” He had never been so smug.

My “Grandma”, who is a Russian Orthodox woman who married an Italian, who still sends me a check every January, who told me this story, stood by him, smiling.

“Oh, cut the bullshit George! Every parent thinks their kid is a damned miracle.”

She was teasing him, she didn’t mean it. She always admitted as much when telling this tale, because the next part of it involves her elbowing the woman next to her, and asking, “Have you ever seen a baby with so much hair and such big eyes? Most kids are bald. And squinty.”

My Mom was down the hall, passed out. There was still a tiny smudge of flour on her arm; she had been making chapati when I made my abrupt entrance on a Saturday night, after less than two hours of labor.

::

Much like the adorable protagonist of “Knocked Up”, my father had purchased baby books to study.

Ever the engineer, he charted out milestones and other information. He laid awake at night, unable to sleep; his brain, which already over thought everything, was now whirring even faster. He was the precursor to today’s “helicopter” parent, though he’d scoff at such dilettantes for being OCD-freaks-come-lately.

“That’s what happens when you wait until you are 38 to have a child. You really parent”, he’d explain to me and anyone else who would listen, later.

::

“You will be a book baby,” he allegedly announced to me, the day he strapped me in to the back of one massive Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham, on the way home from the hospital. “You will do everything exactly when the books say…”

…or else. Or else, what? Who knows, I’m just lucky I did it. All that amazing early achievement would buy me some leeway when I turned out to be spectacularly mediocre, later on in life. When he heard that another young couple had given birth to their own first child a few days before, he elatedly rushed to their home, which was strangely dark and quiet. He had books in his hand, his books, which he was confident he didn’t need any more, since he had studied them so thoroughly (and made his charts and notes). Perhaps this new Father might appreciate them.

Daddy looked at the doorbell and then thought against ringing it.

“Probably, they are sleeping.”

That would explain the lack of light and absence of joyful if not ear-piercing noise. He knocked, carefully.

The door swung open, revealing a man I won’t call “Uncle”, because I have never met him. He looked haggard. My father would later tell me that the house seemed eerie and that he knew something wasn’t right.

“Hello.”

“I heard you and your wife had a baby. Congratulations!”

The man shook his head.

“Babu called and told me, I was very excited for you—“

“For what?” the man responded.

“For…your child? I just had one as well, it’s wonderful!”

The man looked startled.

“Oh, I am so sorry! We would have come to see—we thought you had a daughter, Babychayan didn’t tell us you and Mollykutty had a SON!”

“What are you talking about? I don’t have a son. I have a daughter. Anna. 8 lbs, 22 inches long and already very intelligent,” he boasted.

“So we were both unlucky, then,” he lamented. “I am sorry.” He shook his head at my father sadly. “Can I get you a drink?”

“What do you mean…unlucky?” Daddy was sputtering.

“To have daughters! I told my wife over and over, I only wanted one child and it must be a son. We prayed constantly…and this is what our prayers brought.”

“You are UNHAPPY because you have a girl? Is the child healthy?”

“I don’t know…I assume so…”

“You ASSUME?”

“Well, once they told me it was a girl, I left. I was so upset at our misfortune. All I could think of is, how will I tell my parents this?”

“What the hell is wrong with you? You haven’t even seen your own child? Are you sick?”

“I didn’t even go in to the room, I couldn’t. I don’t want to see it. I left them both there, until I decide what to do. Maybe we will send it home.”

“You are a low, ignorant asshole. If your wife and child are healthy, you should be on your knees thanking God.”

“Who are you to call me such a thing?”

“I’d break your bones, but it’s not worth my effort. You fucking asshole.”

The man shoved my father and Daddy roared. After administering one stinging backhand, he angrily made his way back to our home.

::

For years after the incident, he still ranted about it, his rage unchecked. “Can you imagine? Leaving your child in the hospital without even seeing her! And then sending your own baby away, as if it were a parcel you didn’t want? Thendi, patti kazhuda mone, if I see him again, I’ll step on him and break his bones!” Thantha illatha pottan. Pattikunnan bhuthi-illathe thendi!”

He’d carry on like that for a good twenty minutes, after which he’d pointedly remind me that he only asked my mother for one child, ONE and that he hoped it would be a girl.

“My sister was the fifth out of eleven children, and the only daughter of our family. My father often said that she had the biggest andi of us all.” He’d smile, sweetly immersed in nostalgia.

“Must you be so disgusting?” my Mother would mutter.

“Is it disgusting to respect women? To value them?”

“Is it valuing to say that your sister’s…ah…thing was bigger than all of yours…chey, I can’t even think of such words!”

“Edi, my father may have used colorful language to make his point, but the point he was making is what is important—he thought his daughter the equal of his sons and in many ways, he found her superior to them. For someone born in 1885, that is nothing short of marvelous. What do you know? Your grandmother was married at age seven. Chey!”

“Don’t you insult my family!”

“Who needs to insult, when the truth is damning enough?”

And a door would slam and my father would smirk and coo about how I looked just like his Mother, the woman I was named after.

“Ada”, he began, using the masculine form of that noun. “Chakkara-kuttan. Don’t you ever let anyone tell you that you are less than a man, you hear me? My appan was right about my pengala—she was better than any man, she still is. You know, she thought raising children was boring, so she told me to make myself useful and look after them.” He chuckled.

“That is how I know how to braid hair. Asha’s hair was just like yours.”

“Did you also carve lines in to her scalp like you do mine?” I mumbled darkly. My father didn’t do anything gently. My partition line was more of a furrow. Stupid unbreakable black comb.

It didn’t matter, he was blissfully marinating in his reverie.

“I used to make sure that Geetha, Asha and Subash were awake and then I would get them ready before taking them to school. At first, I thought, what 18-year old has such annoying responsibilities? Then I realized how satisfying children can be. That was when I started to wonder if I should still become a priest. My desire to one day be a father myself left me thinking otherwise…then of course your Grandfather objected to that vocation, too. He thought engineering best, which is certainly hard to argue with…but Ammamma…she went to law school, just like you will. And now she is a Judge, just like you will be. But instead of Kottayam, you will be on the Supreme Court…the first Asian woman…”

And then he snapped out of it all so fast, I was shocked he didn’t have whiplash.

“Don’t you do drugs, you hear me? They will ask you all types of things when they consider you-— you think about that before you do something stupid now, which results in shame later. What does Daddy always say? You live in a world of idiots. They will underestimate you because you are a girl. So! What do you do? You score 200% and then tell them po oombe. You are better than a son. Someone asked me, ‘but what about your name, Thampy? Who will carry it on for you?’ And I said, ‘Maire, what makes you think my daughter will change hers?’ And he said, ‘her husband won’t appreciate that’. And I said-“

“You said, I don’t need to get married. I know, Daddy. I know.” I was rolling my eyes, disrespectful because I had no idea how extraordinary all of this was. Silly, sullen teen.

“I didn’t raise you to cook or clean things, you know. If a man wants a maid and a housekeeper, he can hire them. If he wants an equal partner, he can ask for you. Maybe.”

He closed by hissing, “ Asshole!” at his future son-in-law and then he waved me off. As I started up the stairs, on my way to my room, he shouted at my backside…

“Whose name are you going to have?”

“Yours, daddy.”

“No, stupid girl, YOURS. My name IS your name. Don’t you take that bastard’s name. He didn’t put up with you like I have. You put our name on your law degree, you hear me? There is nothing wrong with that! Nothing! ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME? Oh! What a miserable existence, to have a daughter so dense, she might as well have testicles…”

257 thoughts on “This is what a Feminist looks like.”

  1. whatever, it’s very interesting that you think of india only in terms of hinduism and hindu culture, particularly in referring to that baby and the life-death cycle, since the grandfather’s name was abdul rahman – i assume he, and the baby, are not hindu.

    Okay, but he would have known that this is was accepted practice within the dominant culture. Anyhow, whats the difference between a baby being aborted and one left to die in the soil? You can never stop the abortions, thats for sure. So why whine over the baby left to die in the soil?

    as for hindu women doing just fine, i’m pretty sure many desi women would challenge you on that. if women in india are subservient, i would say a large part of it is because they feel their circumstances cannot allow for asserting their equality, but that doesn’t mean they do not desire it.

    Whats wrong with a woman being loyal to her husband? Whats wrong with women bearing the larger burden of responsibility when it comes to managing a household? If you ever look at the thousands of child molestors, serial murderers, rapists, etc. in the USA (which has the highest incarceration rate btw) you will find a common thread: the vast majority of offenders came from broken homes.

    and no porn indutry? no exploitation of women? PLEASE. not only is there a ‘healthy’ porn industry in india,

    Its not legalized and thats all that matters. You don’t walk into a drugstore in Mumbai and ask for some porn magazine.

    but red light districts abound. i am just curious – this is not meant as a jibe – but do you actually live in india?

    Yes there may be red light districts. But there is no porn film industry, which is a billion dollar industry in the USA.

  2. I would go a little further and say, creating a hybrid is even more difficult, but, it may be that its also a valid choice, and one that may be more applicable to those who are second or third generation.

    And also, given that one has experience in balancing between cultures, one can attempt to make the “home” country better in certain ways, using the good qualities from the country to which they or their family immigrated too.

    One must also keep in mind their situation; if they have chosen to live in a country, why should they not take stock in what that decision means.

    Do you really think other people don’t assume the reason Indians immigrate to Canada for example is because they think in some way living in Canada is worth it? Irish people left Ireland in droves, and now they are moving back, because the economy is better and, what do you know, there is room now for people who do not hew to the old line of religious custom

  3. Okay, but he would have known that this is was accepted practice within the dominant culture. Anyhow, whats the difference between a baby being aborted and one left to die in the soil? You can never stop the abortions, thats for sure. So why whine over the baby left to die in the soil?

    There is a HUGE difference. If you abort within the first month of conception (recommended), the fetus is very small and undevelopment. Mosquitos are bigger than the fetus at that time. At the point it is just a cluster of cells. Now, as the fetus develops, more and more human traits appear. That is what is so immoral about sex selective abortions. In India one usually waits until the 3rd month to determine the gender of the fetus and by that time it has already developed into a “baby” with a brain. There is more health risk for the mother, as well as pain for the “baby”.

    I have had an early abortion. I would not be able to live with myself if I murdered a fully developed and newly born baby. The two are very very very different, and you know they are.

    It’s like saying, “well, my mother already had sex with my father willingly, so what if she gets raped by a stranger? Same act.” Uh, no it’s not.

  4. Camille, I wholeheartedly second your suggestion. Do you think it’s cheating if they try to get listed more than once? We should iron that out, before he goes for a three-peat.

  5. Whats wrong with a woman being loyal to her husband?

    There is nothing wrong with a man or woman being loyal to their spouse. All the couples I know are loyal to one another. Even the ones that got divorced were loyal as spouse and are now loyal as friends. Loyalty has nothing to do with subservience and perhaps this is where you are confused.

    Whats wrong with women bearing the larger burden of responsibility when it comes to managing a household?

    If they are holding down full time outside jobs then there is something wrong with their husbands not doing their fair share (at least half) as well.

    If you ever look at the thousands of child molestors, serial murderers, rapists, etc. in the USA (which has the highest incarceration rate btw) you will find a common thread: the vast majority of offenders came from broken homes.

    It has been found that many of those men also live with their mothers during their adult years, which is considered “odd” in America. Would you say that that would have also been a contributing factor to their violence/crimes?

  6. I volunteered at a nursing home while attending college in the US. Many of the elderly women told me that their children visit only during holidays. Most of the day, these elderly people would be playing cards, or watching television or some such activity. But even though these children had neglected their parents, parents being parents, the parents (even with all the amnesia and what not) would remember their kids and often reminisce, out of the blue.

    When I see young Indian kids walking around with their grandparents, I can appreciate the harmony of Indian culture. I know that that venerable revered being will not have to extinguish his/her days, sitting around a table playing cards or wait for the next holiday to see a family member. There is something more important trying to outwit your husband in every aspect (feminism), and I would have to say that this is the image of you that you project onto your children. After all, a parents are a child’s first role models.

  7. Whatever– are you for REAL? Do you realize India is facing one of the WORST HIV/AIDS epidemics in the world? Ummm, perhaps condoms would help. I’m a Hindu, and DEFINITELY do not support the fatalist reaction I’m sure you’re about to spew. So please spare us all. Where’s your compassion?

  8. There is something more important trying to outwit your husband in every aspect (feminism

    Feminism is about equality, not outsmarting people.

    Why don’t you have the balls to just come out and type what you really think– that women are inferior and any attempt by them to secure fair, neutral treatment is some sort of uppity rebellion? It’s not like we know who you are, go ahead, let it out.

    You are stuck in a time warp. First generation immgrants to this country are currently planning desi nursing homes because it’s too difficult to be a two-income family and care for ailing parents; similarly, those grandparents are bored in their chilrens’ mcmansions, where they are bored with satellite tv, isolated from their own and often unable to travel beyond the front yard. I wonder if learning that the times, they are a changing, will make your head explode.

  9. There is a HUGE difference. If you abort within the first month of conception (recommended), the fetus is very small and undevelopment. Mosquitos are bigger than the fetus at that time. At the point it is just a cluster of cells. Now, as the fetus develops, more and more human traits appear.

    In both cases, the baby dies. There’s no need to gloss over how much pain a cluster of cells/organs might feel. Admittedly, delaying the abortion might increase the health risk for the mother, so I concur with you on that.

  10. I’m willing to concede that several elderly persons in nursing homes do not want to be there.
    However, from personal experience, I know alot do. They feel more of a sense of “independence” and more of a social life than living with their adult children, who anyway, have day long jobs. As you know, life in USA is expensive and difficult to impossible to maintain on a one person income for a family of 3 or more. These old persons would be home alone during the day anyway.

    In Indian middle class homes not everybody works. In fact, many members in extended family households do not work but are maintained by the few members that do. So there is always someone at home to be with the old person.

    Another factor – alzeihmers and other diplitating diseases which require 24/7 professional care.

    I know one old man in our building with alzheimers and sometimes takes off in the car and drives in any direction for hours, not knowing where he is going. This is dangerous, life-threatening. He requires 24/7 personal care so his elderly wife (who is also dealing with her own health issues) rightly put him in a home where he can get that. What was her alternative? Let him stay home with her and possible kill himself?

    Not all cases are “mom and dad are old now but even though they are healthy we are still going to shove them in a nursing home despite the fact that they don’t want to go there.”

    That being said, I know many Americans who do have mom or dad or both come and live with them in old age. And let’s not forget the African American community who frequently have cases of adult kids living with their parents and even grand-parents, or taking in an old aunt or uncle.

    However, if someone is a danger to themself and needs 24/7 supervision, they need to be in proper professional care.

  11. I know that that venerable revered being will not have to extinguish his/her days

    Why are you so hung up on this? It’s just a cycle, man!

    the parents (even with all the amnesia and what not)

    You know the great thing about Alzheimer’s? You always make new friends!

    But there is no porn film industry

    You just negated the entire career of Shakeela. She was one of the pillars of Malayalam cinema in the 80s and 90s, along with Adoor Gopalakrishnan. With a wikipedia entry and tons of nsfw (and unintentionally hilarious) videos on YouTube, how much more does she have to do to go beyond a punchline to Senthil-Goundamani crassness?

  12. Okay, but he would have known that this is was accepted practice within the dominant culture

    i don’t know what you mean – are you saying that all articles covered about india – indeed, all issues focused upon in india – should be viewed from the perspective of the majority culture? your attack was on the judeo-christina life-death perspective, and islam’s view on this is quite similar. i don;t see why you are applyin hindu notions of the cycle to a muslim family.

    Hinduism is far superior when it comes to questions of individual growth and development
    Whats wrong with a woman being loyal to her husband? Whats wrong with women bearing the larger burden of responsibility when it comes to managing a household?

    i have no issues with loyalty of wives – as well as husbands – but you specifically said wives should be subservient to men, implying inequality. i do not know what is innately great in either gender that the other should be subservient. furthermore, if hinduism is so superior re individual growth – why are you women being denied this? why not allow women the freedom to do as they wish? as for running a household – it comes down to economics. because of the traditional views of centuries, men were mostly out in the workforce, and at those times, it made sense for women to care for the household. but these days, when many couples have both partners working outside the home, continuing to place this responsibility solely or disproportionately on women is clearly sexism.

    as for porn etc – i do not see what difference legality makes – part of the legalization of it in this country was for health reasons, something from which india would actually benefit. and it is in and industry in india – just on the DL. but where there are porn films, their are viewers – you cannot say that india is any different in this regard.

  13. In both cases, the baby dies. There’s no need to gloss over how much pain a cluster of cells/organs might feel. Admittedly, delaying the abortion might increase the health risk for the mother, so I concur with you on that.

    So then you don’t see the difference between killing a human being and swatting a mosquito?

    All life is sacred, right?

    Sure, all life is sacred but not all life forms are equally developed.

    Therefore, whereas I feel no guilt over swatting a mosquito who bit me, I would feel tremendous guilt in killing a pet dog, a cow (for satisfying my taste buds), and mostly for killing my next door neighbor because his loud music playing pisses me off.

    Everything is not the same. There are gradations in this world.

  14. Regarding porn in India, it is alive and well and India does have a porn industry, although western porn may be preferred viewing as several Indians have complained that Indian porn does not have the variety that western porn does.

    Have you ever seen any Indian porn? I’ve seen a few “blue films” where the women are just lying there as if they had been coerced into doing this.

    I’d like to see some happy, healthy, two way action in Indian porn. If you have any titles to recommend, holla.

  15. Feminism is about equality, not outsmarting people.

    If we let the feminists have their way, the gays will start. And then the bisexuals, etc. The whole culture will go down the drain. In the USA, you find entire neighborhoods of gay people.

    Why don’t you have the balls to just come out and type what you really think– that women are inferior and any attempt by them to secure fair, neutral treatment is some sort of uppity rebellion? It’s not like we know who you are, go ahead, let it out.

    Well, I once came across a feminist named “Adrianne Rich,” supposed to be a prominent one. After discovering her “inner self”, she became a lesbian. From there, it all went downhill. So you see that “feminism” is really about rejecting men altogether. I have no problem with “gender equality.” But if a woman spends all her time pretending her husband is a chauvinistic barbarian, its not good for anyone.

    You are stuck in a time warp. First generation immgrants to this country are currently planning desi nursing homes because it’s too difficult to be a two-income family and care for ailing parents; similarly, those grandparents are bored in their chilrens’ mcmansions, where they are bored with satellite tv, isolated from their own and often unable to travel beyond the front yard. I wonder if learning that the times, they are a changing, will make your head explode.

    When the desi nursing homes actually materialize, then we can debate it. And its much better for a grandparent to be stuck in a mansion than in one of those horrible nursing homes. Have you been in a nursing home? Have you seen the size of one of the cramped rooms they have for occupants? Its disgusting. Desi’s will never go down that path, thankfully.

  16. Feminism is about equality, not outsmarting people.

    If we let the feminists have their way, the gays will start. And then the bi-sexuals, etc. The whole culture will go down the drain. In the USA, you find entire neighborhoods of gay people.

    Why don’t you have the balls to just come out and type what you really think– that women are inferior and any attempt by them to secure fair, neutral treatment is some sort of uppity rebellion? It’s not like we know who you are, go ahead, let it out.

    Well, I once came across a feminist named “Adrianne Rich,” supposed to be a prominent one. After discovering her “inner self”, she became a lesbian. From there, it all went downhill. So you see that “feminism” is really about rejecting men altogether. I have no problem with “gender equality.” But if a woman spends all her time pretending her husband is a chauvinistic barbarian, its not good for anyone.

    You are stuck in a time warp. First generation immgrants to this country are currently planning desi nursing homes because it’s too difficult to be a two-income family and care for ailing parents; similarly, those grandparents are bored in their chilrens’ mcmansions, where they are bored with satellite tv, isolated from their own and often unable to travel beyond the front yard. I wonder if learning that the times, they are a changing, will make your head explode.

    When the desi nursing homes actually materialize, then we can debate it. And its much better for a grandparent to be stuck in a mansion than in one of those horrible nursing homes. Have you been in a nursing home? Have you seen the size of one of the cramped rooms they have for occupants? Its disgusting. Desi’s will never go down that path, thankfully.

  17. Camille, I wholeheartedly second your suggestion. Do you think it’s cheating if they try to get listed more than once? We should iron that out, before he goes for a three-peat.

    Pondatti, your question just became very relevant. Especially, after #165 and #166, I think you also need to ask if the same comment can be listed more than once, not just the same person.

  18. Go Daddy Go!! That’s the kind of guy I want as a husband and father – a FIGHTER!! His love for you has paid off as shown by your resilience in the face of nasty, personal attacks.

    I asked my dad if he was disappointed in getting 2 girls instead of someone to “carry on the family name”. He said he never had a preference and wanted healthy, happy kids. I used to have a preference for girls, as a counterweight to the bias in favor of boys.

    In the past few months, a cousin and a relative lost babies (miscarriage at 4 months and stillborn at 9 months). Preferences are ok…up to a point (frilly dresses, football…). Take a look at the eyes of a parent who has outlived a child and see the constant emptiness. After seeing the pain of parents who have lost children, or are unable to have them, the only thing I really want is healthy, happy children.

  20. So you see that “feminism” is really about rejecting men altogether

    I’m a feminist, as well as all of my friends, and we all have very healthy, satisfying sexual relationships with men. We love men!!!!

    And did you know that there are actually lesbians who are not feminists?

    Regarding desi nursing homes?

    Where are all the loving family members of all the homeless and sick old widows in Vrindavan?

    There are thousands of women like them in just one town alone!

    At least some nursing homes can be built for them.

  21. If we let the feminists have their way, the gays will start. And then the bi-sexuals, etc. The whole culture will go down the drain. In the USA, you find entire neighborhoods of gay people.

    Don’t forget the zoophiles or the arbori-philes(?)!

  22. it is interesting our emotion clouds our reason, and how we conflate our “way of life” with “what’s right”. Everybody does it; from the extended-family person, who insists this is an objective moral right, to the socialist WTO-protestor who insists that a rustic small town way of life is an objective moral right.

    There is an additional facet here: that of participation. If one participates in different ways of life, then one can appreciate the irreason of deriving oughts from is. The socialist yuppie demands business controls because she has never engaged in business and wealth generation. The family conservative has never really enjoyed independence, and craves familial security, and insist this should be a worldwide reality.

    Irreason, you callous soul.

  23. Shodan #169, I was thinking the same thing. I am seeing the moment of my greatness flicker. I am afraid.

  24. When the desi nursing homes actually materialize, then we can debate it

    enjoy the debate. also, what of all the widows of benaras and vrindaavan – or do they not count?

    Irreason, you callous soul.

    feminism, you callous bitch!

    camille – my mother has really started using votever very frequently – i kind of like it.

  25. I am afraid.

    that’s against Indian culture you know. You better repent by beating your wife.

  26. Whatever, since you see no difference in an abortion and killing a baby after it’s been born, then where is the difference between an abortion and killing off your old grand-parents when they become a burden on the rest of the family?

    That would solve the high cost of nursing homes. Just like killing baby girls or aborting female fetuses solves the problem of high cost of dowry and other burdens Indian parents of girls have to face.

  27. Camille, I wholeheartedly second your suggestion. Do you think it’s cheating if they try to get listed more than once? We should iron that out, before he goes for a three-peat.

    Pondatti, here is an alternative suggestion. What if we do not categorize by “stupidest posts ever” but instead by “highest number of stupid posts made”? That way we can rank individuals and it can be empirical. It also limits the pool in terms of how many players are included since, so far, I haven’t seen more than 5-6 people regularly posting idiotic things.

  28. You better repent by beating your wife.

    Good idea. I better ask my parents to find me one, though, before I pack them off to a home.

    alzeihmers and other diplitating diseases

    Did you mean depilating? You lose your hair when you have alzheimer’s? Maybe Indian women could use it then? ducking now

    but at least in India we don’t need to place condom machines in every university bathroom

    Is this true? I think I am going to start a business to encourage more sex among Tamilians with a new prophylactic, Kumari Condom. PG, want to get into bed, er, business with me?

  30. camille – my mother has really started using votever very frequently – i kind of like it.

    I like it, too 🙂 My fam and I use it often, especially when paired with a desi-style open-hand twist/flick.

    Honestly, the last 10+ comments on this thread have had me choking back laughter (my office is in the library, and I am trying NOT to be a total jackass). HyperTree, WRB, thank you 🙂

  31. I could not agree with this guy more..on one hand Feminists talk of equal wages, opportunity and then you have “ladies get in free” Buy your own drink !

    …and you’re probably the same guy who would complain if the bar or lounge you went to was an absolute sword-fest. Why do you think they let ladies get in free? Because an excess of women at a party is never a bad thing, an excess of men = disaster. Think, then post.

  32. So then you don’t see the difference between killing a human being and swatting a mosquito?

    You see a baby left to die in the soil, as a result of malicious intent. I, however, don’t see that malicious intent – I would have seen it in the strangling of the baby but not in this way. I see that girl growing up in poverty, on the verge of starvation, and eventually getting into some unhappy marriage because a good dowry was beyond her. Basically, I don’t see a positive future for her. So burying her like that might have saved her a lot of pain.

  33. pondatti, I think (hope!) kannan was joking. The Daily Show had a great skit on this guy, painting him as a civil rights crusader.

  34. Parallex, you’re so right. Asphyxiation and/or starvation are so much better than living, because to have to be alive and a woman is such a burden that we just shouldn’t live at all! Let’s all commit mass-suicide, that’ll show ’em to treat value women’s lives. That way we can be a limited economic commodity (scarcity=value, right?). Oh wait, but in India women are already becoming a scarce commodity. Shucks!

  35. You see a baby left to die in the soil, as a result of malicious intent. I, however, don’t see that malicious intent

    To-may-to, to-maah-to.

  36. You see a baby left to die in the soil…I, however, don’t see that malicious intent – I would have seen it in the strangling of the baby but not in this way.

    You think being buried alive is a humane concept? I get your euthenasia vibe, but even Kevorkian uses painkillers and a gentle touch. This baby was thrown in a shallow grave, with dirt entering her nose and mouth when she cried and tried to breath. Being buried alive is a nightmare many adults have, I can’t imagine how heartless someone would have to be, to ditch a two-day old infant underground, ALIVE.

  37. Whats wrong with a woman being loyal to her husband? Whats wrong with women bearing the larger burden of responsibility when it comes to managing a household? If you ever look at the thousands of child molestors, serial murderers, rapists, etc. in the USA (which has the highest incarceration rate btw) you will find a common thread: the vast majority of offenders came from broken homes.

    do ponder the implications of what you are saying. if “thousands of child molesters, serial murderers, rapists, etc.” come from broken homes (i do not know the empirical facts here, but assuming what you say is true), at least grant the possibility that broken homes may be caused by husbands unwilling to share the burden of child rearing and household tasks. don’t you think women (both “working” and otherwise) deserve the right to at least negotiate the division of labor within the home?

    and, of course, let me me point out that the fundamental premises of feminist ideology are “good for men” too. feminists argue against the essentialization/fixed conception of gender roles (pardon the gross oversimplification of feminist thought, SMers). you should be able to choose your lifestyle/profession etc, regardless of your gender orientation (yes, there are more than two. feminists are wary of characterizations of women as “weak-willed, dependant, emotionally unstable.” conversely, they also recognize that men are forced by societal norms (e.g. lampooning men who take up traditionally female dominated professions such as nursing etc) to behave in conventionally “macho” ways. feminism is not “anti-male;” it is for the expansion of freedoms and options for all persons.

    thank you. and i do apologize for this cliff notes rendition of feminism.

  38. With the kind of reasoning in #182, one could also posit that third-world women in sub-par conditions are basically better off dead than alive, so why not just kill them all off at birth? This is the kind of lazy thinking that’s emblematic, perhaps, of the people who do the killing in the first place, so their own sense of fatalism gets conveniently disguised as compassion. Besides, it would be much easier to dispose of unwanted baggage than buck against the conditions that make daughters’ lives hellish–right?

    And you don’t see a positive future for the child, because progress and improved living conditions are but a faint glimmer in the eye of the well-meaning imperialist?

    Think before spewing rubbish. Societies change when people do.

  39. Whatever wrote:

    If we let the feminists have their way, the gays will start. And then the bi-sexuals, etc. The whole culture will go down the drain. In the USA, you find entire neighborhoods of gay people.

    Not the gays!!! Anything but the gays!!

    Lord have mercy. You’re for real aren’t ya?

    It took me a while to actually believe what you’re writing was genuine Whatever..I guess I simply can’t wrap my head around the fact that there are people that think like you in this world. But there you are. In all your glory.

    Please. Spare us your liberal Western Judeo-Christian BS. Hinduism is far superior when it comes to questions of individual growth and development.

    As a practicing Hindu I loath when people claim religious superiority of any kind. There’s so much to be said for modesty, in fact, I believe the Gita does.

    A wife is subservient to her husband because Sita was subservient to Ram.

    So you’re just like all the other Bible thumpers out there who quote scripture in order to justify unequal treatment.

    Anyhow, whats the difference between a baby being aborted and one left to die in the soil?

    I don’t really have anything coherent to say in response to this except, “Wow.”

    Whats wrong with women bearing the larger burden of responsibility when it comes to managing a household?

    No one said there was anything wrong with a woman bearing a larger burden of the household responsibility (particularly if she’s a housewife), what we’re contesting is a larger than average preference for male babies.

    I volunteered at a nursing home while attending college in the US. Many of the elderly women told me that their children visit only during holidays. Most of the day, these elderly people would be playing cards, or watching television or some such activity. But even though these children had neglected their parents, parents being parents, the parents (even with all the amnesia and what not) would remember their kids and often reminisce, out of the blue.

    No one on here is saying that the “American way” of nursing homes is ideal. In fact, I strongly agree that a lot of people are neglected by their loved ones to nursing homes and that is definitely a downside to the American framework.

    However, there are countless people in nursing homes who are happy and there are the same number of elderly in India living at home who are unhappy.

  40. Asphyxiation and/or starvation are so much better than living, because to have to be alive and a woman is such a burden that we just shouldn’t live at all!

    When you’re livelihood depends on the meager output you can produce off of 20 square feet of land, the first thought that comes to your mind when you know the baby is a girl is not, what kind of barbie am I gonna get her… the first thought is, can i feed her? Of course, its easy enough for you, in your posh office to fantasize about the girl being a doctor or engineer, but then, you are not nearly within proximity of the true reality.

    Every worthless cause is precious for the feminists because they are disengaged from reality anyway.

  42. ladies get in free

    uh, ever wonder why “ladies get in free”? or do i need to spell out the obvious?

  43. uh, ever wonder why “ladies get in free”?

    It is because of their lower worth and earning power, as a result of which they cannot afford the cover, right?

  44. Every worthless cause is precious for the feminists because they are disengaged from reality anyway.

    Takes one who is disengaged from reality to know one, my bitter friend.

  45. Every worthless cause is precious for the feminists because they are disengaged from reality anyway.

    Are you a feminist, then?

  46. When you’re livelihood depends on the meager output you can produce off of 20 square feet of land, the first thought that comes to your mind when you know the baby is a girl is not, what kind of barbie am I gonna get her… the first thought is, can i feed her?

    Um, because if the baby is a boy, he can somehow feed himself? How in the hell does the question of being able to feed your child figure into the issue of gender?

  47. the first thought that comes to your mind when you know the baby is a girl is not, what kind of barbie am I gonna get her… the first thought is, can i feed her? Of course, its easy enough for you, in your posh office to fantasize about the girl being a doctor or engineer, but then, you are not nearly within proximity of the true reality.

    Ah, that reliable final refuge for bad debaters– the “you, in your posh office…what do you know?”-bit. I’m sure you’re typing this from a hovel, right? Dial-up connection via Assholes On Line perhaps? You are so right, how dare we fantasize about girls achieving things when we, too, are not living in a shack like the one you’re pretending to be in…the one which puts you within proximity of the real reality.

    Also, FYI– Barbies don’t come until several years later…but that’s not germane, since if we follow your glorious logic, the girl would be long-dead. Yay infanticide!

  48. “…and you’re probably the same guy who would complain if the bar or lounge you went to was an absolute sword-fest. Why do you think they let ladies get in free?”

    Well, I happen to be the guy who doesn’t have to buy a girl a drink to get laid!I know some/most men do and I really don’t care if someother male is getting laid or not…not my problem.. but thanks for the generalizing!

  49. When you’re livelihood depends on the meager output you can produce off of 20 square feet of land, the first thought that comes to your mind when you know the baby is a girl is not, what kind of barbie am I gonna get her…

    Sir (or Madam, I make no assumptions), I bow to your superior understanding and knowledge of the shopping habits of the Indian farmer. Although “you’re” grammar could use some help.

  50. but thanks for the generalizing!

    Is it a generalization to state that men dislike to go out and find a dearth of women at whatever their intended destination is? Do I generalize? Very well then, I generalize.