It’s bad enough when your parents hound you for being single and ask why you were out so late last night, but the Christian Science Monitor points to the double standard that single women renters face in India at the hands of their prospective (and over-protective) landlords:
It took Chiya Singh three months and seven real estate agents working in tandem to find an apartment to rent in New Delhi.
The problem wasn’t her credit history or salary. It was her status as a single Indian woman. The questions blocking Ms. Singh from a room of her own were a bit personal, she says. Prospective landlords wanted to know why, at age 29, she wasn’t married and why, as a single person, she didn’t want to live with her parents.
“It was an exhausting process,” Singh says, of trying to find her own place after she divorced. “I became a broken record. They asked ‘Why do you want to live alone?’ I said, ‘Um, because I think I’m old enough.’ “
That response usually netted Singh a cold expression and a vague “We’ll let you know” from the landlord. [Link]
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p>Because, I mean…why would a single woman want to live by herself?
In India, “If you want freedom, it can only be for one thing – sex,” Singh says. “You want to tell them [landlords], ‘That’s the last thing on my mind. I think I’m old enough to take care of myself.’ But for the landlord, it becomes an issue of respectability.” [Link]
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p>Right. Here is the even more messed up part. It is okay to rent to single white girls because…well, they are already slutty (or at least that is what the landlord quoted below seems to imply when she says “they are used to living on their own”).
“It’s an Indian mentality,” says Sonia Kakkar, a landlord in South Delhi. “We just feel more protective. You just feel that you are responsible.”
Ms. Kakkar currently rents the second floor of her building to two French women and prefers foreigners because she does not feel as protective of them.
“They are used to living on their own,” she says. “If they have a problem with the flat, they come to us. Otherwise, there is no interaction…” [Link]
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p>Well, to all the parents reading SM let me tell you just exactly what it is that your live-alone daughters in America are doing:
Jennifer Chowdhury just invented the hottest new game in town. Screw the Wii. Ladies, get one of these. Then invite me over (so I can blog about it for the good of the readers I mean)
Busy with your career? Busy commenting on SM, you mean! 🙂
my tailor is in madras – complete dictator about these things. the last time i had to do away with the whole polite act and insist that if i was paying the money and wearing the clothes, they had to be to my taste. madam did not take it too well. i’m currently on the lookout for a new tailor. it was not so bad while it lasted.
Outlook article on friends as family Interesting vignettes of young professionals living on their own.
ak, if you wouldn’t listen to your tailor, at least listen to what Vandicholai Chinraasu said!
Hehe, so true about tailors! Especially when you’re a teenager getting your first sari or lehnga blouse, man, they look at you like a slut for saying “lower” or “tighter.” But thankfully we had good ones in Bombay, who were perfectly OK with low/tight, and they always took very, um, exact measurements with completely impassive faces. I had one very aunty-ish blouse tailor who made the most teeny-weeny blouses, it was great.
yes, you have me there. my fashion choices are not down with the family back home, particularly my rejection of the saree (they take it personally – it’s the family business). i used to get such shit from my grandmother for not wearing pavaadai-thavani. on my last trip, i even dispensed with the salwar kameez, only to have to hear, ‘you look like a boy in those clothes.’ good times.
Oh Rahul,
That was back in the des in the Good old days when I was not addicted to SM 🙂
Hema : Congrats.A little tip: Working mother’s guilt is universal !However,I don’t know if it was particularly desi but I had to listen to a lot of subtle and not-so subtle criticism from others. Luckily for me both mom and mom-in-law themselves were working women so I was spared that from them. But not from friends’ wives, colleagues wives, neighbors etc ( not all, some of ’em).Others were supportive and a few actually envious that I was “putting my education to use” their words not mine . note: This was many years ago, times have changed now.
Personally, I think the greatest thing would be to be a homemaker and I think the contribution of non-outside- working moms is vastly undervalued all over the world.
In India, every single place I worked I was asked during interviews how I would manage work and being a mom .My husband of course was never asked this.
It used to make me mad but now I think the best revenge is a good life !
ak:
I always lie to my parents. I tell them I go on trips with only girl friends, etc. I never mention what I do for fun (they’d freak out if I tell them I am training for a 60-mile walk with a bunch of guys). Somehow my parents find out about stuff I never mention. I used to live in a small university town in Ohio where I knew NO one and still my life was known to everyone in the extended family. What bugs me most is that my cousins and aunts just start lecturing about how it is harmful for an Indian girl to be talked about “like that” (when they are the ones who talk).
Puliogre in da USA:
No, never works. I’ve done that and all that comes out of it ultimately is that my Aunts go back to India and tell my parents how “America has corrupted” their daughter. I keep my mouth shut for my parents’ sake.
Well, it’s not particularly desi, although again, it’s probably more common among desis. But Caitlin Flanagan and Phyllis Schlafly have certainly made careers stateside telling other women that they should sit at home.
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
And.. why should he be? When your husband and you were married, did his parents insist (either explicitly, or implicitly) that you about have a financial secure job to take care of him, and any children ? If anything, I see question coming out of deep respect and value of motherhood. It’s a tougher job.
Rahul:
I guess.
Awww, you played the pink card! 🙂
ak, if it’s not too presumptuous, may I suggest threading?
HMF # 161
I did not understand what you are asking.
I do find it offensive that I was asked every single time about how I could manage parenthood and work.Why should my partner not be asked the same? Isn’t he a parent too?But this never came up in any job interview for him
i think the things people ask guys are a bit different. like, why arent u in med school? how much mmoney do you make? the aunty set doesnt really care about these things for a grl. questions are usually why arent you married?
Ok ladies, can you stop yakking it up here and bring lunch out? I mean, jeez!
gulti girl, that is, indeed, very mysterious.
rahul, i am vehemently anti-unibrow. but thanks for the presumption, man.
Puliogre,
I agree, let me know when you want to pool resources to capitalize 🙂
ahh..not to be confused with “wheres my d!nner, b!tch!”
hmm…that would imply us introducing each other to the disproportionatly attractive career women in each others communities? thats how i would interpret that…
Some U.S. cities used to have laws about unmarried women living together in rentals. These so called “brothel laws” were based on the idea that, basically, single women might be up to no good/”entertaining” males. In this case it seemed that it was more suspicious for a group of single girls to live together than just one or two single girls. There were also bars and clubs that did not allow “unescorted” women due to fear, again, of prositution. A woman alone?! She must be a hooker, etc.
untill recently there was a law on the book in boston saying that a “native” couldnt go into the commons unless accompanied by 2 mmuketeers. the law was never taken off the books till recently. i would imagine that a law like that one would have been repealed long ago with womens lib.
Essentially what I was trying to say was that India is gradually becoming more accepting of women (and men) living alone, but it is a gradual change and will take time for attitudes to adjust. My larger point was the same as Runa’s, there is no empirical “this way is better because we can do whatever we want.”
Personally, I don’t call anyone a slut. I don’t care how much sex people choose to have. But I consider sex a sacred thing, and so do a great many people. Americans think they are so free and liberated, but Europeans view us as pretty much as conservative and close minded as we view India. This whole thread smacks of typical NRI “Man those Indian people back there are so backwards. I’m glad I left and became enlightened.” Look, if you want to f*ck 900 people and never get married, go crazy. But you shouldn’t assume that everyone will respect that choice.
Coach Diesel- I’m sure you are a cool person and great teacher, but I must respectfully disagree with almost all of your posts. I understand that in latin culture, sexuality is much more open and explicit. I understand that your views make work for you and help you to lead a happy, well balanced life. But that doesn’t mean that they are the only way to go. Just because someone chooses not to sleep with every person they encounter or find attractive, does not automatically mean they are repressed or insecure. Maybe sex is something special to them, which they think is most appropriate with a long term committment.
Before anyone casts any aspersions, no I am not a virgin, but yes I am a romantic and I do regret some of the indiscretions of my youth.
Also, why is everyone up in arms about “the double standard women face” (Which is undoubtedly true, and true everywhere, not just India) but your responses are limited to the typical accusations that Indian men are all insecure, have small dicks and can’t please women. It shows how low the moral bar is set when someone who is saving themselves from marriage is actually viewed as afraid just because they choose not to fornicate. When I was at the age that most of my friends were losing their virginity (in the “conservative” Midwest), I assure you that a lot of them (especially girls, but it applies both ways) did so as much because of peer pressure and the desire to fit in and be “normal” as for genuine emotional attachment, or even physical pleasure.
The last line was a bit of a throwaway; I realize Indians are just as greedy, jealous, slothful, lustful and all the rest as anyone else. My point was, these things aren’t tolerated or celebrated, the way they are here in the States. I know all about infidelity and such, but I actually think Rahul has a point “The appearance of law” is often just as important as the law itself. After all, people are pretty much the same everywhere, but there are huge global disparities in lifestyles. They must come from somewhere. Assuming that a certain percentage of every population will lie, cheat on their spouses and steal, I would still maintain that people in India (especially the middle class) are in general much more moral than the U.S. (which is far more so than Europe, as someone pointed out). I would attribute this not to any sort of inherent moral superiority, but the much more fervent religiosity that is an even larger presence there than here.
the post isnt about fcking 900 people and not getting married. its about living alone. the fact that living alone equates to fcking for you says something about you. no one is calling india backwards. People arent even calling you backwards. people are calling your comments backwards.
Also, while I was at college all the sororities were dry because any house containing multiple women couldn’t serve alcohol because it then automatically became considered a brothel. That’s right, girls who live together and drink are whores. So much for enlightened American attitudes.
yikes. i dont even know what that means. what you mean by “more moral” which behaviors do you find moral, which are immoral. sounds more like “poeple in india claim to follow a code of behavior more similar to mine than people in the US”.
The point is not “everyone respecting choices” as you claim, but people materially discriminating against you for those choices (when they themselves might indulge in worse in secret). If everyone had your attitude, viz.
we would not be having this discussion
I understand that in latin culture, sexuality is much more open and explicit. I understand that your views make work for you and help you to lead a happy, well balanced life. But that doesn’t mean that they are the only way to go.
I wouldn’t necessarily say “in latin culture, sexuality is much more open and explicit.” More so with 2nd, 3rd genner latin@s maybe, but we have that whole catholic vibe going, so love is pain, man. Also, latin culture is comprised of some 25 or more different countries, so you can’t really nail it down like that and call it done.
My cousin in India claims that if he is caught socializing with a girl from his college that he will be suspended for one month. Is this true? That sounds kind of ridiculous for 2007 and I’m not sure if he is lying because he does not want me to meet his girlfriends or if he is telling the truth?
pin him down on that. hes trying to keep u away from the ladies!
ak-
I’m sorry but I fail to see how your situation (lying constantly to your parents, giving them no inclination of what your life is actually like ) should somehow make us sympathize. If anything, you are an excellent example of what your parents are worried about, that in America their kids will have some secret double life that they won’t know about.
I say that as someone with conservative south indian parents who committed almost every major transgression as a youth, sex, drugs, rock n roll, dropping out of college, the works. The one thing I never had to do was lie to my parents, at least not more than the average American kid. Desi parents, like all parents, want to pretend their kids are perfect. But when confronted with reality, most of them (mine included) if they are intelligent and sensitive, will find a way to accept their child regardless.
Also, there is some truth to what was said earlier; if you didn’t have anything you thought you had to hide, you wouldn’t hide anything. Obviously somewhere deep down, you either feel that some of your actions are unacceptable, or that your parents would view them as such. I would suggest that the problem is one of communication.
Rahul:
Personally, I’d have preffered a blue or a green card, (Why does breast cancer have to be represented by pink?) but the lone guy on my team or the other men I train with have no problem with it. My team is called Warrior Women though there is a guy on there.
I am having me some home made hot drumstick sambar and rice at my dining table at home :). Ah the advantages of living close to work!
And what #175 said
now ur making me homesick.
G Unit, what do you consider morality? personally, i wouldn’t even look to religion for morality, because 1. they all preach/practise some rather unsavoury things; and 2. each religion follows its own set of values, so who is to say which religion is, and therefore what practises are, more moral? my issue is that sometimes there is no yardstick by which to measure morality – once you start judging people and their morality by your own set of values, they may start judging you and by their set of values, you might not come out looking so great. but that doesn;t necessarily mean one person is, in fact, more moral than the other. my basic motto is that people should be able to do whatever they want, without judgment (moral or otherwise) as long as it’s not hurting somebody else. i only have issues with people/incidents that fall beyond this. otherwise, to each his/her own.
G-unit, I said moralistic, not moral. And I think that leads to a focus on “the appearance of order”.
I will partially agree that the “fervent religiosity” is one contributing factor.
This discussion is not about personal choices that people make, but the moral judgments inflicted upon you by other people in society.
I understand that your views make work for you and help you to lead a happy, well balanced life. But that doesn’t mean that they are the only way to go. Just because someone chooses not to sleep with every person they encounter or find attractive, does not automatically mean they are repressed or insecure.
That must be why all of us mutineers are always smiling. We’re all sleeping with each other.
I told ya’ll it wasn’t the drugs…
That is a low blow, gulti gurl. NOT cool. Not when I’m munching on my slice of cheese pizza.
Hey, nobody gave me that memo!
i dont even know what that has to do with the difficulty of single women having trouble getting housing in delhi due to other peoples finger pointing…do you think these women are sleeping around? do you think discriminating against them is right, because they might not be as “moral” as your holiness?
Because we live in a society where mothers do most of the leg work when it comes to early child rearing. the question was about managing motherhood and work, not simply parenthood.
Furthermore my question was to elucidate that men have certain expectations placed on them, particularly in the financial realm, that women do not.
I’m sorry but I fail to see how your situation (lying constantly to your parents, giving them no inclination of what your life is actually like ) should somehow make us sympathize.
I sympathize…it depends on what you are lying about and what the parents reaction is. I had to lie a lot to my parents b/c there would be too much unconstructive sh*t to pay for what were ordinary mistakes or not even mistakes but choices. I’m glad you had parents that you could go to, G-Unit, but I didn’t and I don’t think lying to your parents is categorically immoral. I’d heartily encourage some of my friends, knowing the types of parents that they have, to lie…it’s much better than what the parents would do.
ur all done there…
I just don’t want to constantly explain my choices to anyone, including parents. That does not mean there is no communication with my parents. Of course they know there is lot more to me than what they see. Communication will happen on a need to know basis.
From the admirable restraint she’s demonstrating in her responses, I’d say Coach is a paragon of virtue.
i don’t expect sympathy – just no judgment. the reason i do this – and i only do it when it comes to romance/sex – is because my parents and i have distinctly different opinions on these matters, and they have made it very clear that they think this is immoral. i don’t think what i do is immoral, so who is right in this situation? in every other instance, i tell my parents everything – they know i drink, i party, they know what’s going on academically, in my career etc. but my parents cannot expect their kids to be open with them if they are so judgmental all the time. my parents are of the judgmental sort – and i cannot help that. the communication goes both ways – if parents are unwilling to accept certain practises and make that clear, that implicitly curtails the possibility of their kids being open with them about evetything. i have tried in many other instances to have an open dialogue on certain topics (dating, sex, mixed-religion marriages etc), but they can be irrational. i don’t think their irrationality should mean that 1. what i am doing is wrong; or 2. i should stop doing it. i say these things on this forum because i felt that i would not be judged for my comments – but clearly i am being judged.
AK-
While I agree with your response above in abstract, beacuse it is consistent with Western Englightenment thought and what they teach us in order to be good liberals at college, I don’t know that it necessary always applicable in real life.
Personally, I think the tendency to judge is a huge flaw in both American and Indian society. I try to avoid it as much as I can. But according to your quote, drinking one’s self into oblivion every night (so long as you don’t drive home) would be OK. Sleeping with countless prostitutes, OK. Shooting up on heroin, OK. Basically all self-destructive behavior is condoned. I think not harming other people is a start. But I think that morality (which I agree is extremely vague and abstract) must run deeper.
Essentially I think the way most cultures understand morality is the acceptance of certain rules and practices that have proved beneficial for the growth and success of the population. Monogamy used to be considered integral, especially for women, because otherwise the men had no proof that any children were their own. Now with DNA testing, paternity suits and child support, perhaps the need for this is declining. Similarly, I think most commonly accepted human practices have their roots in the same type of evolutionary psychology. The more advanced we get technologically, the more of these may disapper. Heck you don’t even need actual parents to have babies anymore. But I still object to terming anything “backwards”, which itself is the exact type of judgment you said you like to avoid. Especially when so many people on here have confirmed that my views are still prevalent in India, popular among our parents generation and perpetuated through the world. It smack of the arrogance of privilege and youth.
Since someone mentioned drumsticks and sambar (evil hex thrown your way) – anyone know what the proper term for the vegetable we know as drumstick really is? My SO wants to know, and I’m admittedly curious too.
(sorry for digression)
Coach Diesel-
You are correct to point out my gross generalization and for that I apologize. Having spent a good amount of time traveling, I am aware of the great deal of diversity and nuance in Latin cultures, and that lifestyles vary a great deal throughout the Spanish speaking world. I guess I’ve been reading too many comments on this site, and have become so used to people decrying the nebulous “Indian culture” that I responded in kind. Obviously I think those generalizations are equally inaccurate in regards to Indians. What for instance, would my family, from the professional class in Madras, have in common with IT workers in Bangalore, Diamond merchants in Mumbai or sustenance farmers in Bihar? The truth is, not much, but I have not seen this pointed out very much in dialogues like this.