When landlords get all up in your bidness

It’s bad enough when your parents hound you for being single and ask why you were out so late last night, but the Christian Science Monitor points to the double standard that single women renters face in India at the hands of their prospective (and over-protective) landlords:

It took Chiya Singh three months and seven real estate agents working in tandem to find an apartment to rent in New Delhi.

The problem wasn’t her credit history or salary. It was her status as a single Indian woman. The questions blocking Ms. Singh from a room of her own were a bit personal, she says. Prospective landlords wanted to know why, at age 29, she wasn’t married and why, as a single person, she didn’t want to live with her parents.

“It was an exhausting process,” Singh says, of trying to find her own place after she divorced. “I became a broken record. They asked ‘Why do you want to live alone?’ I said, ‘Um, because I think I’m old enough.’ “

That response usually netted Singh a cold expression and a vague “We’ll let you know” from the landlord. [Link]

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p>Because, I mean…why would a single woman want to live by herself?

In India, “If you want freedom, it can only be for one thing – sex,” Singh says. “You want to tell them [landlords], ‘That’s the last thing on my mind. I think I’m old enough to take care of myself.’ But for the landlord, it becomes an issue of respectability.” [Link]

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p>Right. Here is the even more messed up part. It is okay to rent to single white girls because…well, they are already slutty (or at least that is what the landlord quoted below seems to imply when she says “they are used to living on their own”).

“It’s an Indian mentality,” says Sonia Kakkar, a landlord in South Delhi. “We just feel more protective. You just feel that you are responsible.”

Ms. Kakkar currently rents the second floor of her building to two French women and prefers foreigners because she does not feel as protective of them.

They are used to living on their own,” she says. “If they have a problem with the flat, they come to us. Otherwise, there is no interaction…” [Link]

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p>Well, to all the parents reading SM let me tell you just exactly what it is that your live-alone daughters in America are doing:

Jennifer Chowdhury just invented the hottest new game in town. Screw the Wii. Ladies, get one of these. Then invite me over (so I can blog about it for the good of the readers I mean)

428 thoughts on “When landlords get all up in your bidness

  1. why havent landlords in india caught on to the fact that women need to over pay rent. why wouldnt they just rent to women only, and make a lot of money. seems like an arbitrage.

  2. so the position of neptune at the time of my birth will asuage your fears?!”

    I tell them that as a materialist, the only relevant things are that Mercury is in the house, and Saturn is in the garage.

  3. puliogre – the fear with prospective grooms is not sleeping around – it is that you already have a wife, or that you have ‘tricked’ other women into marriage/prospect of marriage in bringing them over to the states.

    what would i get out of spending a boat load of money to bring some chick to the US if i already have a wife? guys looking for harems?

  4. what would i get out of spending a boat load of money to bring some chick to the US if i already have a wife? guys looking for harems?

    i guess you could be married, go to india. sit through the ceremony. b*ng the grl, leave the country, return to family life.

  5. Puliogre – landlords DO charge women more, basically the “foreigner rate” – which very few Indian women can pay, particularly the young, call-centre working kind.

    And the reason that desi men sometimes marry the nice girl their parents picked out for them from home even though they’re already shacked up (with a Vhite Vitch, no doubt, hidden from their families because she’d Never Be Accepted) is so that they can make their parents happy. Uphold civilisation and morality and all that.

  6. spending a boat load of money to bring some chick to the US

    Uh oh. You said boat. You meant DBD.

  7. They are not cool with it because it is intimidating for them. It causes self-doubt, worry and comparisons, provoking anxiety which is, as we all know, very romantical and zexy.

    oh yeah, baby. because god forbid their partner is as good as – or better than – them in bed. so i guess it’s not just their size that weighs anxious on their minds.

  8. i guess you could be married, go to india. sit through the ceremony. b*ng the grl, leave the country, return to family life.

    theres got to be cheaper ways to get action than that…

  9. Puliogre – landlords DO charge women more, basically the “foreigner rate” – which very few Indian women can pay, particularly the young, call-centre working kind.

    so..in that case, wouldnt you want to only rent out to rich single indian women or foreigners? i mean..why wouldnt yu want to receive market rents when you can ream women/foreigners.

  10. parents in india get really suspicious cause im an american, and everyone knows americans sleep around.

    I don’t really think that’s because they think you’re sleeping around. They want to make sure you don’t have an American girlfriend/wife or boyfriend/wife who is going to break up their daughter’s marriage…they want to make sure you’re not some sort of deviant who is going to harm their daughter…they want to make sure you’re not an ax murderer.

    If you lived in India, they could easily ask around and find out all these things about you, but the information network is much more sparse in the US. Ergo the due diligence.

  11. And the reason that desi men sometimes marry the nice girl their parents picked out for them from home even though they’re already shacked up (with a Vhite Vitch, no doubt, hidden from their families because she’d Never Be Accepted) is so that they can make their parents happy. Uphold civilisation and morality and all that.

    thats f-cked up. i think im too simple a guy. i dont think i could dream up a scheme like that even if given time to dream it up.

  12. They want to make sure you don’t have an American girlfriend/wife or boyfriend/wife who is going to break up their daughter’s marriage

    is this kind of info more easily available if the guy is indian?

  13. If you lived in India, they could easily ask around and find out all these things about you, but the information network is much more sparse in the US. Ergo the due diligence.

    Man, Anthony Pellicano was really in the wrong business. He should’ve been marketing to Bhimasena Gardens, not Beverly Hills.

  14. i mean…it cant be hard to hite a girlfriend on the sly if your chillin in mumbai and your community is in bangalore….

  15. is this kind of info more easily available if the guy is indian?

    Yes, or at least I think so. Let’s say you’re a guy living in Matunga (heh!). Even if you live by yourself, you have three nosy neighbors, five cousins, and at least two distant relatives living in the area who will be more than happy to rat you out…er, discuss how wonderful you are with the parents of a prospective bride.

    I once helped my aunt and uncle sort through horoscopes from India for my cousin. Some horoscopes were accompanied by detailed family background descriptions, including addresses and phone numbers, in case my aunt and uncle wanted to check out the family.

  16. HMF on June 19, 2007 09:49 AM

    G Unit on June 19, 2007 09:34 AM :It’s like Greece, Rome, Egypt, heck all the big empires; as soon as they lost their moral ascendency (though it was generally dubious to begin with) and started tolerating all sorts of perversions,
    Don’t forget, the gays caused 9/11.

    So it wasn’t the Jews afterall?

    (nice comeback) 😉

  17. Oh Lord, not another “Everything in India is so anti-women ….thread” Please !

    Agreed that some folks may act like complete twerps when it comes to renting .But let me offer my own personal experience: – Lived alone from the age of 17 – rented/Paying guest/hostel etc – Have single women firends who successfully rented in N Delhi – oh, yes! – Have family that own property and rent out to – gasp!- single men , single women – Have myself rented out to – single women, unmarried cohabitating couples – oh ,yes!

    So please, while I am sure everyone has had varied experiences , no blanket statements and I would take the CSM article with a very large pich of salt.

    Further rants about the “dating” and “employment of single women” will follow later

  18. Further rants about the “dating” and “employment of single women” will follow later

    please…continue…

  19. Runa – rented their own places, or a PG accommodation? The latter is very common, or sometimes they’ll have a group house and rent out rooms to individual girls. Renting your own place is the problem. Not impossible at all (as the article indicates, the woman did find a place), but tons of resistance.

  20. I definitely agree that renting as a single woman in Delhi is hard (unless you have another single woman roommate, in which case I’ve found it’s easier), but with the growing number of young post-college professionals, I’ve noticed this opening up in the ‘burbs (e.g. Gurgaon). I think neighborhoods with more foreigners can also be a little easier to rent in (for the second story of a house or whatnot), but a little more expensive. I don’t know how that compares to renting a flat or apt, though.

    Oh, to backtrack, I always got the impression that ABDs are considered sluttier, but for some reason there’s some kind of desire to “save them from themselves” since they, too, are brown. I haven’t really seen this with other (gori) women.

    what would i get out of spending a boat load of money to bring some chick to the US if i already have a wife? guys looking for harems?

    You would be amazed by what some guys will do.

  21. So please, while I am sure everyone has had varied experiences , no blanket statements and I would take the CSM article with a very large pich of salt.

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I do know single Indian women who managed to find places to rent, either as tenants or paying guests…at least in Madras anyway. I do wonder if the fact that they were single professionals living in a city other than their hometown helped matters a little. That is, if these women didn’t have relatives or parents in town they could go and live with, I imagine at least some landlords would be loathe to these women out on the street when they’re far from home, so to speak.

  22. I agree with what Runa is saying, I have female relatives from out of town rent in Delhi/Bombay (Independent Places) not PG accomodations. If you are familiar with Delhi a lot of places in Malka Ganj are rented by Single Women who go to college in North Campus Colleges. One way out for single women to rent without hassle is to get a company lease. I believe most landlords in Delhi fear not being able to get their apartments vacated after the lease expires and that is why they have started insisting on company lease. It is changing as living alone is become more and more prevelant. You also have to understand that prime rentable apartments have been in short supply hence unreasonable demands by the landlords.

    Pulliogre,

    Not really an arbitrage opportunity as the market for women and men renters is still the same.

  23. Oh, to backtrack, I always got the impression that ABDs are considered sluttier, but for some reason there’s some kind of desire to “save them from themselves” since they, too, are brown. I haven’t really seen this with other (gori) women.

    sounds like life is easiest for white women….hmm..

  24. SP- I assume you are asking about Delhi. Rented – as in an apartment with separate entrance and everything.And this was 1992-1993 mind you .

    I already said that I agree that there may be cases where it is difficult but my”rant” was about the general tone of the article and the comments here which veered towards the condescending about India and Indian attitudes.

  25. Not really an arbitrage opportunity as the market for women and men renters is still the same.

    doesnt sound the same to me, by the descriptions on this thread.

  26. SP- I assume you are asking about Delhi. Rented – as in an apartment with separate entrance and everything.And this was 1992-1993 mind you .

    I already said that I agree that there may be cases where it is difficult but my”rant” was about the general tone of the article and the comments here which veered towards the condescending about India and Indian attitudes.

  27. SM Intern:

    Please delete because I somwhow managed to post teh same comment twice 🙁 Sorry!

  28. No arbitrage as the cost of holding the apartment to be rented only to the females is far large as the pools of prospective female tenants is still small.

  29. No arbitrage as the cost of holding the apartment to be rented only to the females is far large as the pools of prospective female tenants is still small.

    fair enough. its like a liquidity premium then…off the run market or something.

  30. Yes, or at least I think so. Let’s say you’re a guy living in Matunga (heh!). Even if you live by yourself, you have three nosy neighbors, five cousins, and at least two distant relatives living in the area who will be more than happy to rat you out…er, discuss how wonderful you are with the parents of a prospective bride.

    So true, even for girls. I had an offer to go back to India and work for $$$K salary and I refused for the exact same reason. I live alone in the USA and things aren’t easy here, either. Every FOB cousin/aunty/uncle wants to know why I have no room mates. My family comes to know everything about me before I tell them (like how many guys were on that camping trip that I went on this spring, etc.), all through the extensive desi network here. I used to try and explain myself earlier but I just gave up. What has a single girl got to do, bah!

  31. Nice post, and an issue definitely worth addressing.

    Having experienced Bangalore, I can safely say that the landlords are the kings of the cities. There are interested parties coming to visit the advertised place every half hour every damn day. It is at such times that the landlord becomes a ‘Club Bouncer’, standing with folded arms, judging you at the entrance and deciding if you need to get in or get the !# out . All his racial/casteist/religious/sexist prejudices come out in the open and it is pretty darn ugly.

    It is true that single women, especially vocal single women – are one of the most hated bunches of people in India. The older generation Men tend to hate them because they don’t ‘obey’, and the older gen women hate them because ‘that is not the way women should act’. I’m sure that these women will find it terribly hard to find places – both because their morality is questioned, and because they are simply not liked.

    Even these ‘girls hostels’ are so screwed up. The warden is most of the times a ‘strict mother’ with out-of-this-world rules … get home by 9.. absolutely no male friends, so on and so forth…. all this when the women are working professionals in some of the most reputed companies in the country !

    @Runa – “So please, while I am sure everyone has had varied experiences , no blanket statements and I would take the CSM article with a very large pich of salt.”

    I respectfully disagree. Most of the statements above seem very reflective of the reality of renting to women in India. I would say that 3 out of 4 places you visit will be very very wary of renting to single women…

  32. What has a single girl got to do, bah!

    damn, gulti girl – you need to play the game a little better. i suggest lying and other evasion tactics, which have always worked for me. i’ve almost always lived within 200 miles of my parents, and they rarely have any clue what’s going on. granted, my parents are not nosy and generally respect my freedom, but the only way for rumours not to spread is to keep everybody in the dark.

  33. So true, even for girls. I had an offer to go back to India and work for $$$K salary and I refused for the exact same reason. I live alone in the USA and things aren’t easy here, either. Every FOB cousin/aunty/uncle wants to know why I have no room mates. My family comes to know everything about me before I tell them (like how many guys were on that camping trip that I went on this spring, etc.), all through the extensive desi network here. I used to try and explain myself earlier but I just gave up. What has a single girl got to do, bah!

    what happens if your really agressive, and every time some aunti type bugs you, you go ape $hit. would they then just leave u alone? (no sure what the blowback would be for a grl)

  34. sounds like life is easiest for white women….hmm..

    Not necessarily. Being considered “sluttier” also means you get groped, hit on, and otherwise harassed in different, and sometimes more insistent, ways than ABDs.

  35. damn, gulti girl – you need to play the game a little better. i suggest lying and other evasion tactics, which have always worked for me. i’ve almost always lived within 200 miles of my parents, and they rarely have any clue what’s going on. granted, my parents are not nosy and generally respect my freedom, but the only way for rumours not to spread is to keep everybody in the dark.

    thats just disturbing….but, i guess one does what they must.

  36. Not necessarily. Being considered “sluttier” also means you get groped, hit on, and otherwise harassed in different, and sometimes more insistent, ways than ABDs.

    ah. they r s*x objects too. i get it.

  37. Randomizer # 134, I think we are at impasse. I have already spoken of my personal experiences in being the renter /rentee with no such issues as everyone here seems to think is the norm. I would not go so far as to say that single women are hated. But its true that single women in that society bring out everyone’s inherent securities.That’s also because independent women are not appreciated anywhere.As a married, working women I heard a lot of comments ( from women too) about how I could not possible be a good wife and mother because I was busy with my career.

    About the hostels: I can agree with you 100% having experienced the”Psycho warden” and be in by 9:00 am or else stuff. Anyway,I thought I need to put my 2 cents in based on my experience living and working in India.Whether it gives more comfort to beleive that all Indians in India are stuck to moribund traditions and are all misogynist, racist/casteist etc I cannot say.

  38. what happens if your really agressive, and every time some aunti type bugs you, you go ape $hit. would they then just leave u alone? (no sure what the blowback would be for a grl)

    I haven’t really found this to work. Granted, I haven’t tried it, but I definitely have cousins who have been told to be “cowed” or “tamed” for being aggressive, confident or assertive in their opinions (and they didn’t even go apeshit).

  39. Runa, I see your point about generalising (and it’s easy to focus on the negative when that’s the topic of the discussion). The article does, to be fair, point out the fact that it is possible to rent, and particularly when you get to upmarket areas in South Delhi, when landlords will pretty much look the other way for enough $. It’s still amazing when you see so many women with good jobs, the ones who were top of their class and what have you, and all they can get is a PG accommodation. Barsatis and rooms above people’s garages are still quite acceptable for single women (particularly if the entrance is where the landlords can see you come and go), it’s when I wanted something larger than a barsati/room that I faced a lot of resistance. This was in Delhi, a couple of years ago, and it happened even when I took my parents along (which definitely helped, I shudder to think what would have happened if I didn’t have my very respectable mother in tow). It just took about five times as long as it should have, and I lost so much work time. And hearing “sorry madam but the landlord won’t rent to single girls” about fifty times didn’t help.

  40. Runa: While some characterizations here might veer to the extreme, I think it is fair to say that India is more moralistic than the US (which in turn is more moralistic than Europe). I too have had aunts who lived in Delhi as single women (even in the 80s), as well as cousins and friends who’ve done the same in the past couple of years, but I also know how carefully they used to tread because, as Shodan quoted, “the appearance of order must be maintained”. This sort of behavior, just because they are women, is patronizing and insulting to mature, responsible adults.

    I will, however, say that things are changing. Things in India today are far better than what they were in the 80s. But, hey, even in the US, the slut vs. playa hypocrisy (as was briefly alluded to by some of the comments by ak and coach) is latent in a variety of interactions.

  41. As a married, working women I heard a lot of comments ( from women too) about how I could not possible be a good wife and mother because I was busy with my career.

    hmm..i would feel the opposite. would feel kind of wierd not having my wife not having a career. would have a hard time feeling like an equal partner. i think career grls make better wife, better role models for kids. jusy my taste though.

  42. I’ve never had to deal with renting in India but not surprising — landlords taking a parental judgemental role seems to fit with everything else.

    Have you ever had to deal with a local tailor? I don’t know how it is in the big cities, but I try and get western-style clothes made or even sari tops by the local tailor in India using some of the beautiful but cheap garments I can get in India. The tailor takes my measurements and I want the dresses to hug my figure. 8 out of 10 times I get the clothes much looser fitting than what I asked for – the tailor it seems will decide what is appropriate for me to wear – forget about what I want.

  43. Oh Puliogre I think Runa’s right on that one – particularly the point about independent women bringing out everyone’s insecurities. I’ve even heard aunties who’ve had careers of their own (after the kids had gone to school, and they still did all the work at home) judge younger women, like their own daughters-in-law, for going back to work too soon, and suggest that they were neglecting the kids. You’d think these would be the women who’d have some empathy….

  44. I will, however, say that things are changing. Things in India today are far better than what they were in the 80s. But, hey, even in the US, the slut vs. playa hypocrisy (as was briefly alluded to by some of the comments by ak and coach) is latent in a variety of interactions.

    im a big fan of calling guys “sl*ts” when they sleep around, and saying that grl is looking for a “pretty ” guy when they want a tall muscular guy with a good face. its all the same thing. preffer not to make it look any different.

  45. Have you ever had to deal with a local tailor? I don’t know how it is in the big cities, but I try and get western-style clothes made or even sari tops by the local tailor in India using some of the beautiful but cheap garments I can get in India. The tailor takes my measurements and I want the dresses to hug my figure. 8 out of 10 times I get the clothes much looser fitting than what I asked for – the tailor it seems will decide what is appropriate for me to wear – forget about what I want.

    thats amazing. thats hilarious.

  46. As a married, working women I heard a lot of comments ( from women too) about how I could not possible be a good wife and mother because I was busy with my career.

    Well, as an expectant mom, I can’t wait to hear if my mother or mother-in-law will express this sentiment eventually…if only subtly or backhandedly.

  47. Oh Puliogre I think Runa’s right on that one – particularly the point about independent women bringing out everyone’s insecurities. I’ve even heard aunties who’ve had careers of their own (after the kids had gone to school, and they still did all the work at home) judge younger women, like their own daughters-in-law, for going back to work too soon, and suggest that they were neglecting the kids. You’d think these would be the women who’d have some empathy….

    so…that should allow me to pick up a disproportionaly attractive grl who is independant and career minded. brown – i know. maybe it isnt an arb due to liquidity. but, sounds like a good idea to me…