“Dutch” isn’t veg-friendly.

calculate this.jpg I love reading real newspapers on the weekends (since all I have time for is Express during the week). While lazing through the New York Times this afternoon, I found this six week old “T: Style” article which made me smile, after the conversation I had yesterday with a mutineer…

me: How was dinner?

she: Can I vent?

me: But of course, my little cabbage!

she: I got robbed.

me: OMG, you got mugged???

she: Noooo. I mean…when the bill came.

me: I don’t get it.

she: Of course you do, you’re veg, too.

me: Oh, THAT-a-way

she: Yes. That. A. Way. Not a damned vegetarian entree on the menu AND everyone I was with obviously ordered seafood– not just any seafood…the market-rate stuff.

me: Ah, that which has no price listed.

she: EXACTLY!

me: Ouch.

she: That’s not even the worst of it! You know how I don’t drink??

me: Yeah…?

she: Well, everyone else more than made up for it. 3-4 each.

me: Wow, so you-

she: Subsidized a bunch of fish and vodka. What I ordered came to all of $25 WITH tax and a 20% tip…what I PAID was $72.

me: Sigh. Well, you made the birthday girl happy by being there.

she: True. But, I COULD HAVE GIVEN HER THE $50. Then she’d be happy and I wouldn’t feel so damned ripped-off.

Stop smirking, dear readers. You know you’ve had that EXACT conversation with one of your friends. Half the brown people in Amreeka are Guju* and plenty of them are Jain. 🙂 Quit acting like you are unaware of the plight of the put-upon veggie:

Do birthday parties held in restaurants give you a palm-dampening, heart-palpitating anxiety attack? You’re not alone…
It’s not that we don’t wish many happy returns to B. P. — now blushing in thanks or dashing abashedly to the powder room — really, we do. It’s the guy two chairs down who ordered the foie gras appetizer, Dover sole entree, side of truffled mashed potatoes and three martinis made with designer gin whom we never want to see again.
“Vegetarians always get screwed at these things,” rightly groused a paralegal who is tired of subsidizing other people’s steak frites.

Well, my herbivore friends, order well and order plenty:

“Order the biggest dinner you can,” advised a struggling stand-up comic, whose cousin’s 30th-birthday party of 10, at the Slanted Door in San Francisco, proved anything but funny. “It was one of those super-overpriced, nothing-on-the-plate places,” she said, “and everyone was gorging — ordering two, three, four dishes. And lots of wine.” In a vain attempt to be frugal, the comedian ordered but a starter of dumplings, washing them down with tap water. When the bill came, her abstemiousness was ignored; she wound up putting $50 on a credit card. “I was too passive to speak up — so mad, and still hungry,” she said.

As for our next blockquote, “Ethnic”? What the-?

Large groups of friends going Dutch at birthday parties, at what people persist in calling “ethnic” restaurants, is common practice just out of college. “After age 30, it’s tacky,” the paralegal said — though surely some slack can be cut for Manhattanites whose apartments are too small to entertain in.

Who says Manhattanites need slack? My gemutlich abode has <500 sq ft, which had me chortling at the last meetup, when one of you asked if we could do the next one at someone’s house instead, and then volunteered mine.

I don’t think what the understandably bitter paralegal was lamenting above is as tacky as THIS:

But what’s the excuse of that successful actress who recently gave a birthday dinner for herself in a private room at a pricey steakhouse in Beverly Hills and, at the end of a boisterous evening, solicited $100 contributions from each invitee? (The drinks were on her, she announced magnanimously.) “In my mind, ‘private room’ should be synonymous with ‘prepaid,’ ” said one bitter attendee.

I thought private room meant the same thing (unless it’s a meetup, people…I ain’t rich!). Even when I couldn’t secure a private room for my little sister’s last birthday at Rasika, I thought it was my responsibility to take care of it (okay, back then I was kinda rich…God bless consulting), since I had invited everyone, on behalf of her. Well, that and aside from one doctor, everyone else worked on the hill/at a non-profit. I’ve been there. Even funnier aside: the doctor at this mostly brown birthday bash was white. But I digress.

I’m sending this to the afore-quoted mutineer, to make her feel better:

Then there was that rising screenwriter who invited 25 associates to a birthday dinner during the popular, budget-friendly Grilled Cheese Night at the upscale Los Angeles restaurant Campanile. About half the group belonged to Hollywood’s aspiring creative class — which is to say, they were unemployed — and gratefully ordered the sandwiches. The other half, mostly studio execs, decided to order liberally from the regular menu, one giving his meal an extra fillip with an expensive dessert liqueur. When the check came, it was split equally. “So we had to pay $100 a person for what amounted to two pieces of bread and some cheese,” fumed one peon. “And the people with the expensive entrees all had expense accounts!”
It’s not just the guests who are complaining about the practice. “In my experience, when you host a thing like this, you always end up 10 percent short,” said — believe it — a math professor. “Is it because, out of 20 people, one or two will just forget to pay entirely? Or because everyone slightly undercalculates what they owe? Who knows?”

I’m proud to say that this has rarely happened at SM meetups, which is remarkable considering how large they are. Our last one at Amma attracted close to 30 people, all of whom covered their share– but you mutineers are fantastic like that.

Some palliative tips to make it all somewhat better?

We need not abandon the idea of parties in restaurants altogether. After all, not everyone has the space, the culinary skill or the energy to celebrate friends in the style they deserve. But perhaps there should be a few rules of order(ing). First, avoid long tablefuls of too many people, lest the honoree feel like she is presiding over the Last Supper. “Groups of 10 or under are great,” said a novelist who’s still recovering from a raucous gathering at a West Village restaurant attended by 19 of her nearest and dearest. If it’s a fancy place, consider limiting the menu choices ahead of time to several reasonably priced alternatives and house wines, perhaps to be printed on a keepsake placard.

Still, it seems like there is no avoiding the Dutch malaise:

If you have piles of money, consider paying for everybody. If you don’t, consider disclosing a rough price of entry ahead of time. And if that is exceeded, suck it up, because the alternative is just unpleasant.
“I went to a dinner for a friend that ended with a girl calculating how many glasses of wine each person had had, dividing the cost of the bottle by glass and calculating how much each person owed,” said a Brooklyn-based lawyer. “Then she calculated the cost of what each person had had to eat, added in the birthday girl’s cost — you get the point. If you’re going to a party at a restaurant, you need to be prepared to split whatever the bill is. Then you can complain about it later to someone who wasn’t there.”

Yep, that’s what I’m here for.

:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:

*I’m totally kidding, so don’t yell at me about this faux-tistic. 😀

159 thoughts on ““Dutch” isn’t veg-friendly.

  1. I hear there’s a debate going on over at orangemutiny.com if “dutch courage” are fighting words.

  2. Warning to people: Previous poster Rahul is lying. Don’t try to go to orangemutiny.com, it doesn’t exist.

  3. My wife goes through the exact same thing… but what’s funny is that I’m (technically) a Brahmin and I’m the only non-vegetarian in my family, and she’s Caucasian and she’s the only vegetarian in her family! So I love eating at her family’s and she loves eating at mine. I think her being a vegetarian definitely helped my family in accepting her. 🙂

  4. hmm….I don’t quite get it, on the rare occasions that we go dutch among my friends, you eat exactly for what you pay…if I order a chicken Masaman with coconut soup (main ingredient chicken broth), a total of 18$ and my friend orders Tofu Masaman with onion soup (main ingredient, err, water), a total of 14$, I pay 18 and my friend pays 14, isn’t that what go dutch means?? We do it even when the group is 12 people, individual checks mean individual payment, not average.

  5. Vegetarians get screwed at all expense paid events too. The host beams, “Eat, eat. There’s plenty of food”. All you see is bowl of ranch + bleh greens. Aftereffects include late night hunger and asparapiss.

  6. For some reason, whenever ordering pizza with friends it ends with one (or indeed several) of them explaining: “You can pick the pepperoni off!” Veg folk always get screwed over teardrop

  7. my friends once chose legal seafoods for our pre-formal dinner (knowing i was veg) and i ended up paying $25 for some insipid pasta and veg dish – i.e. a seafood pasta dish without the seafood, but at the same price. it always amazes me how insensitive some people are to vegetarians…

  8. Vegetarians also get screwed in the US because many vegetarian entrees are as expensive as, and sometimes more expensive than, meat. All thanks to government subsidies of factory farming, our tax dollars at work. When I ate in India I really appreciated that veg food cost significantly less than non-veg, as it should.

    Non-drinkers really get screwed on split checks though.

  9. May I proffer my rant as an Indian vegetarian, which covers this and other topics?

    LOL. highly recommended. now off to gorge on shrimp….

  10. Regarding #11, the link sums up my life when eating out with others. The conversations in the “rant” are the exact same ones I have experienced.

    Being a vegetarian and a non drinker usually means my pocketbook gets screwed to the max when going to restaurants with friends and even non veg family members. Like #11, I NEVER judge or scrutinize others for their dietary choices just for the record. Self righteousness is not my thing. It just seems that non veg food is a bit more expensive than veg. (Exceptions do exist like organically grown produce, excellent upscale veg friendly restaurants like SFO’s “Greens”, etc.) May be light eaters and dieters who just order appetizers or salads probably face the same problem of splitting the bill at the end, too. It can be a very delicate subject.

    Being a vegetarian isn’t always easy (and going dutch at a restaurant is one of the difficulties!) When I was growing up in the 70’s in the Midwest (I realize this is going to make me look ancient!), whenever I mentioned I never ate meat, people were scratching their heads. At one point when I was in eighth grade and in a new school, the strangest rumor began to circulate about me. My fellow students were coming up to me and asking me if I was a “veterinarian”. I then realized that the crowd I hung out with had noticed my meatless lunches and then whole school found out I was “vegetarian”. At the time,I couldn’t understand why the kids were thinking I was a veterinarian and even if I was, what the heck was I doing in middle school?? Sorry to rant – I realized my post has nothing to do with going dutch but my stream of consciousness led me to this very distant memory.

  11. She should have ordered the most expensive dessert. Hell, order a death by chocolate cake, and a cheesecake with the freshest strawberries. The most expensive appetizer. I have a hard time believing she couldnt find some expensive appetizers which were vegetarian. Probably order some juices which are not the free refill kind.

    Another point: Usually we do not bicker over a dollar or two when we go in big groups, but when we realize one person ate much less or much more than the others, we do account for that approximately. Usually it’s when one person ate too less. It was inconsiderate of the group to expect your friend to pay the same. Someone should have said: you know what “we will all pitch in 80 each and let Anna’a freaky of a vegetarian friend pay only 40.” OK i keed on the freak part. But it was very inconsiderate of the group to not expect her to pay the same.

    Restaurants: I am a big non veg person. But even I find it odd restauarants are so uncreative with their veg offerings. How about a salad with many top quality premium leaves instead of the standard iceberg lettuce and carrot shavings and some goop posing as dressing? SOme premium raw vegetables?

  12. I don’t drink. But what i have noticed is I was NEVER asked to split the tab when drinks formed a significant part of the bill.

  13. She should have ordered the most expensive dessert. Hell, order a death by chocolate cake, and a cheesecake with the freshest strawberries. The most expensive appetizer. I have a hard time believing she couldnt find some expensive appetizers which were vegetarian. Probably order some juices which are not the free refill kind.

    I don’t like it when we should all over ourselves, as one famous fictional character once said.

    I hear you, I’ve done the dessert thing. At one memorable dinner, I had german chocolate cake for dinner and molten for dessert, since EVERY appetizer and entree had flesh or seafood in it. And no, it still didn’t equal the cost of what others ate, but it was all that was edible. Also, most places with expensive appetizers don’t serve anything with free refills or juice, but I am a routine-consumed fraidy-cat who eats at the same four restaurants, so I’m probably wrong.

    I lost weight when I moved here for school, from California, b/c it was far less veg-friendly back then. I still remember my shock at the first menu I encountered with NO vegetarian options…it was depressing, but not as depressing as the more-expensive-than-an-airport-food-court-cafeteria at GW.

  14. I’ve been a vegetarian all my life, but having recently entered the wonderful world of post-college life, I’ve only just started to have my share of ‘robberies’. I’ve found that the best way to counter this to enumerate the items that each person has bought (if not shared) at such a dinner, then to keep the credit cards in that order. Sure, in large groups this isn’t the most practical, but the other option would be to eat more, which isn’t necessarily a person would want to do (I don’t like ordering more than I want for the sake of it). Another [unpopular] suggestion may be to raise your voice about the discrepancy between what you ordered and what you’re about to pay. Generally speaking from my experience, people are considerate about this even if it means causing a large inconvenience.

  15. Vegetarians probably get screwed more systematically on this count than others, but can I also say that as a graduate student with friends who have Real Jobs, I face this problem all the time? First you go to places that are more expensive than you can really afford, because that’s where everyone wants to go, then you get the cheapest pasta on the menu, and one glass of wine, then you end up paying for everyone’s salmon. You know what the trouble is? People are afraid to speak up and appear “cheap.” And Americans, I am sorry to generalise but I have reason, are much less likely to speak out than others because people are less aware of or less open about differences in class and income, everyone wants to pretend that everyone else has the same amount of money, and to start calculating what each person owed exactly is seen as nitpicking, not to mention a little difficult after several drinks. And it’s always those with more money who are happy to let friends with less subsidise them because it’s “only twenty bucks” for them.

    We can all do ourselves and our friends a favour by speaking up for the person we know ordered less or is getting screwed. When someone else speaks up for you, it shames others into being fair.

  16. Oh, and desis are by no means angels when it comes to going out either, as I remember (this was a while ago) most people back home are not likely to go out with friends on a bill-splitting basis, but rather expect one person to “invite” and then pay for everyone. And it’s usually the same people, often those perceived to have more money, who end up doing the inviting, while everyone else piles on.

    It’s kind of like game theory sometimes, and coordination dilemmas, and prisoner’s dilemmas.

  17. simple recipe for finding vegetarian food in any city/town/village/etc:

    1. Are there any universities in the area? Do any house a particularly famous art department? If so, you’re in good shape; a glut of art grads, plus a healthy population of people who got guilty over their meat in college, means serious potential for veggie options on the menu.

    2. Look around, do you see a considerable amount of people with dyed-black hair, facial (and otherwise) piercings who may think that Arcade Fire sounds just like Benevento Russo? If you’ve stopped seeing anyone in sperry top-siders and abercrombie, it means you’re close to hitting the veggie jackpot!

    3. (in case 1 and 2 fail). Find yourself a kitchen, all the good local ethnic-food stores and learn to cook well. You’ll be doing this a lot over the next couple of years (or however long you find yourself on the east coast).

  18. First you go to places that are more expensive than you can really afford, because that’s where everyone wants to go, then you get the cheapest pasta on the menu, and one glass of wine, then you end up paying for everyone’s salmon.

    unless you’re friends with a bunch of stone-age diet adherents, you could try making your diet more of an issue so your friends remember it all the time and start making allowances on their own. Otherwise, it’s just so alien to most carnies, they’ll quickly assume that you too can sample whatever organ/fatty muscle that they’re having.

  19. Dude, diet is not an issue for me. I am not vegetarian, just not as well off as my friends with regular jobs, hence the cheap dishes. A lack of sensitivity and awareness and self-interested bill-equalizing can be a problem in this case too.

  20. SP,

    honestly i’m torn about this: wasn’t this whole post about vegetarian complaints when going dutch on the bill?

    not that i’m devaluing your problems, I just thought that the veggie’s position in this situation is unique.

  21. I think I’ve been fortunate; I can’t recall ever being asked to split the bill equally with others (this may have something to do with the fact that many of my friends are also students). Finances aside, I would certainly feel ethically uncomfortable subsidizing others’ purchase of meat, eggs, dairy products or alcohol — if it’s not something I would be willing to buy for them from the grocery store, why would I ‘buy’ it for them in a restaurant? The bigger problem is having others in the group pick a non-veg restaurant and then act all surprised when there is nothing I can eat. Unfortunately, for vegans the ‘load up on dessert’ approach is rarely an option; I usually search the menu in vain for even one vegan dessert (which is nuts, because there are certainly enough lactose-intolerant people around to justify a tofu cheesecake on every menu).

  22. I completely and truly feel the pain here. Being a vegetarian, I have vented similarly to my girl friend after so many dinners.

    And while we are on personal rants here is mine on being a vegetarian in this country 🙂

  23. anna: amen.

    recently had a similar experience with some friends heading into baltimore. i had three sides of veggies, they got crabcakes and the lot. total bill equaled my rent. enough said.

    though even great veggie places in dc such as java green are still on the pricey side…easy to walk out with a full workday lunch at $15.

  24. So Anna, is this also the post about the last DC SMeetup? Because if it is, I just checked the linked pictures, and again want to say how goodlooking everyone is. Not everyone was at the April Meetup, so that is saying something new. 🙂 And you look so pretty, not to say warm, friendly, and appealing as well – in that lovely green sari.

    BTW, I’ve always interpreted ‘Going Dutch’ as ‘everyone pays their own way’. If this is not clearly understood, and when the bill comes you don’t speak up for fear of being thought cheap, well, you can get gypped.

    My own experience is not so much along the veg/non-veg schism, but on the heavy drinker/very light drinker schism. I never have more than one drink – but people I’ve gone out with have often had several – (an Irish-American friend once downed 16 glasses of beer right in front of me) and guess what happens when the bill arrives – we begin splitting it, till someone says, ‘Oh, but S here had only the one beer, let’s take off $15 from his tab, and everyone else owes $5 more’ or something like that. But not always – people will take advantage when they can get away with it.

    In my very first month in the US, for example, I was roped in to ‘co-host’ a party. The other two co-hosts went out and bought – and I still remember it exactly after all these years – $108 worth of alcohol and beer, and I got socked for $36. The party was a fair success, and still the alcohol and beer left over lasted them the rest of the term. At the time I was still a teetotaler! (Some people still think I am)

  25. So, what we are saying is that vegetarians are like the tofu of a dinner party, producing a disproportionate amount of gravy when squeezed? Personally, I don’t quail and just tell them my beef in such a situation, so other people chicken out from asking me to pony up. Alright, alright, that sentence was ham-handed, I hope you veal not have a cow!

    Also, here’s a suggested topic for the next post: I don’t tip, but probably without all that French.

    As for my post #1, I was a bad, bad boy, so sorry about flooding the Dutch. Thanks, Slow, for sticking your foot in the mouth of that dike.

  26. He hardly split bills among friends. One person usually pays for the entire group (4-5 ppl) and in the long run everything evens out. We used to have this arrangement while growing up in India (and in my undergrad), but I find it incresingly difficult to execute it here (in the US), because people are particular about each and every dollar they spend!

    My first day in grad school – I meet my advisor and he says “lets have a cup of coffee”. Takes me to a coffee shop, orders his coffee, pays for it and then looks towards me ..almost saying “why don’t you order something”.

  27. Anna, I agree no one “should” have to order expensive desserts to compensate. But that’s all I could think of to make the most of the situation. And really? Not one vegetarian appetizer? Even in a chain restaurant, they got mozzarella sticks or some potato stuff.

    Maybe one tactic would be “Guys, I’ll tag along for company but if I don’t have anything to eat at that place, I’ll just have a coke and sit in for company.” And even before the bill comes in(or wheneever you think the timing is good), just say “Guys, I’ll just round off my share. Here’s 10-20 bucks. I think should cover the tip and my share(which everyone should realize would come to not even 5 bucks.) Or just some variation on this spiel which you think you can pull off without major akwardness. I just think it is incredibly dense of your friend’s group to make her pay the same share for such an expensive bill. We split evenly sometimes when the bill is around 10 a person and no one loses more than a couple of bucks and we usually do it with our regular group of diners where everything evens out oer a few meals.

  28. As for my post #1, I was a bad, bad boy, so sorry about flooding the Dutch. Rahul, it is not just the Dutch. You must also consider the Floridian.

  29. I live in LA, where I am the sole vegetarian among my designer boozing, sushi snacking friends. An average dinner for 8 people runs us about $800, and my total for miso soup, salad, and maybe a cocktail puts me at $30, inclusive of tip. Veggie people also need to speak up and let others know not to count them in the spkit down the middle. Same goes for frequenting the Brazilian, all you can devour meat places like Fogo de Chao, where it’s non-stop service for meats at a fixed price, and I get the salad/cheese bar.

    I toss in the $30 and let them figure out their carnivorous checks on their own and feel no guilt about doing so.

  30. Awww… As a non-drinker, totally feel this post. I don’t care if people drink, I just have issues paying for alcohol in any circumstance. I get especially perturbed when bills are split evenly and I have to foot a table full of drinkers bills. In these cases I simply pay what for what I ate, and let the drinkers deal with the bill…

  31. Maybe one tactic would be “Guys, I’ll tag along for company but if I don’t have anything to eat at that place, I’ll just have a coke and sit in for company.”

    The problem is, this happens often, and I sit through meals hungry & watching others eat, and I still have to go searching for something to eat after dinner’s over. (Thought at least I don’t have to pay for others.) And even for those veggie people who eat dairy products, things like cheese sticks or even rice may be a no-go, as they more often than not have eggs, rennet or other slaughter byproducts in them (chicken stock in rice is common), or are cooked in the same oil/grill as non-veg stuff. (I was amazed when out with friends recently to find that a local bar cooks its deep-fried tofu in the same oil as its meat — who on earth is ordering non-veg tofu??)

  32. I look at it this way if I ask a friend out I will pay for it all. I work at a law firm and have went out with a group of people and I ended up paying for drinks that I did not even order so I learned my lesson I alway get my own check so I don’t end up getting stuck with paying 70.00 dollars for two drinks.

  33. It’s really just a matter of consideration. If I’m planning a dinner/event, you look for a place that has enough variety. I had to organize brunch today with the fam – 11 people in total. One vegetarian, lots of meat eaters, and we didn’t want to do prix-fixed menus paying 25/pp. Many places have menus available online now and you can look up what they have available ahead of time.

    If you’re going out with friends/colleagues and you all want to split the bill evenly, I think it’s only fair if everyone is having dishes that come out to about the same. Otherwise, if only certain people are or aren’t drinking – they should account for the liquor separately amongst themselves. Same with someone eating substantially less than everyone – why not let them pay for themselves, and everyone else remaining split?

    If you hang out with people that are inconsiderate of your cash flow or dietary restrictions- maybe you shouldn’t go out with them. 😛

  34. I am the only vegetarian in a group I go to dinner with quite often. There’s other Indians in the group too, who are not vegetarian. Many of the people rib me about it, but that’s all it is. When we pick places to eat, they make sure that there’s vegetarian options on the menu that I am happy with. As for splitting the tab, if people don’t bring it up themselves, and I feel that things are lopsided, I just mention that my order cost $10 less than the average or whatever (because of food or drinks – although the latter isn’t usually an issue :-), so maybe we should account for that. Most people immediately factor that in, and it is not an issue going forward. Being forthright about the tab if it gets your goat just avoids, er, heartburn later.

    In fact, I follow this policy even when I’m on a date. I usually place my order first with the waiter, present him a coupon, and tell him that the lady will have an entree of equal or lesser value. I’ve found it really avoids the awkwardness later on.

  35. In fact, I follow this policy even when I’m on a date. I usually place my order first with the waiter, present him a coupon, and tell him that the lady will have an entree of equal or lesser value. I’ve found it really avoids the awkwardness later on.

    just as long as you don’t consider the lady of lesser value? i think that would avoid more than awkwardness later on – perhaps it might also rule out some action as well? i once went out with this guy, and on our first date, he took me to a very nice italian restaurant in boston. when it came time to order, we only ordered two appetizers (one veg, one non-veg, so basically i only ate half of one appetizer) and a bottle of wine. at first, i thought that we would follow up with entrees – but that was it! when i told him i wanted to order a main course, he said he wasn’t that hungry, so i felt it was rude if i ate while he didn’t. i sort of thought he was just being cheap – but then i realised that little food + lots of alocohol = one very drunk date (me). he did pay for the whole ‘meal,’ though.

  36. “Then she calculated the cost of what each person had had to eat, added in the birthday girl’s cost — you get the point. If you’re going to a party at a restaurant, you need to be prepared to split whatever the bill is. Then you can complain about it later to someone who wasn’t there.”

    Perhaps I am crazy cheap, but my friends always split the bill by what we ate. For a birthday, one of us will calculate what tip should be and divide that and tip by the table, along with the cost of the birthday person’s food/drink. So you have a set figure to add to what you owe on the bill. Why is that so uncouth?? I really don’t get it.

    Now, I think if its a dollar or two difference and you’re with a group of 4 or so, then splitting it evenly makes sense, but in a big group its so easy for something like the above to happen.

  37. very clever, nina! though that mock meat shit scares me – tastes too much like the real thing…

  38. Rahul says: “In fact, I follow this policy even when I’m on a date. I usually place my order first with the waiter, present him a coupon, and tell him that the lady will have an entree of equal or lesser value. I’ve found it really avoids the awkwardness later on.”

    Of course it does, because you cannot have awkwardness when a date is not in front of you because she dumped your cheap ass. All right, I am harsh on you. Heh. But if you are using a buy one get one free coupon and you are assuming the bill, why not just let her order first, and then you make your order and let the server apply it on the cheaper one? What is the worst that can happen? She orders a 15 buck dish and you end up ordering a 10 dollar dish and you end up paying 15 for two dishes?

    Like I said before, timing is the issue when it comes to stating that your bill is less. Make sure you preempt the calculation people will do out loud when splitting the bill. I have done this before. THe waiter is bringing the bill in, I have a meal that costs 18-20 bcause I do not drink, so I offer 25 saying, Hey guys, mine is 18 and change, here’s 25 for whoever is paying by credit card(this effectrively preempts the notion you are disturbing the group concept and puts into play the notion that you are overcompensating the one person paying the bill with his or her card). But the key thing is doing this before they even start calculating. But don’t do it too soon or you wll come across as anal. Also do not overexplain it like I am doing right now. Your delivery has to be very casual. And if you have good friends, they might actually say “hey man, take a dollar back, we aren’t going to be tipping that much. “(which they actually said to me).

    Tip: Take small bills so you wont be caught asking for dollar bills back in change if you are uncomfortable doing so and end up bitching to Anna about it.:=)

  39. I believe Rahul was making a funny. But seriously Rahul, you can order me an entree of equal or lesser value whenever you want, if you know what I mean. Oh yeah.

  40. I have to agree with the posters who’re surprised by this weird version of “going Dutch”. I’ve only heard someone suggest it once and they were promptly shot down; I had no idea it was a common practice.

    My experience of group meals is that everyone pays roughly what they ordered plus tip. As I don’t make much and never order expensive food, I’d be appalled at essentially subsidizing my co-workers/acquaintances more expensive tastes. This practice really seems to go against common sense and fairness.

    We can all do ourselves and our friends a favour by speaking up for the person we know ordered less or is getting screwed. When someone else speaks up for you, it shames others into being fair.

    Word. If it was a group of people I didn’t know well, I’d definitely feel embarrassed about saying I’d like to pay less.

  41. Someone mentioned above about “you can pick the meat off the pizza”; a related issue is when eating family-style, having a veg entree which has been included for you eaten up by “open-minded” carnivores.

  42. i’m in a sticky situation…a buddy of mine is getting married, and dinner is non-buffet…guests will each be served a plate of steak and shrimp. would it be rude to tell our server beforehand to hold the meat, and double up on the sides/bread?

  43. I used to get screwed like this all the time! Not anymore….why the heck am I going to subsidize booze??? I next to never drink!! My friend taught me a nice trick…ask for separate checks! 😛