When ER first came on TV, I remember thinking it looked completely unrealistic because it was too damned white. Now I finally have some numbers to back up my instincts:
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Plenty more like her |
From 1980 to 2004, the fraction of medical school graduates describing themselves as white fell from 85 percent to 64 percent. Over that same period, the percentage of Asians increased from 3 percent to 20 percent, with Indians and Chinese the two biggest ethnic groups. [Link]
S. Balasubramaniam … recently queried 50 medical schools and calculated that 12 percent of the class that entered in 2006 is of Indian heritage. The highest percentages are in California, Texas, New York, New Jersey and New England. [Link]
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p>While the article doesn’t indicate anything about Balasubramaniam’s sampling methodology, the numbers are consistent with my gut feelings about the number of brown faces I’ve seen amongst med students. When asked to explain why she went into medicine, one desi doctor said:
“We were never forced into medicine … But in the Indian community in Chicago, everyone was a professional. Everyone was a doctor or an engineer…” [Link]
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p>Although there have always been many desi doctors, the numbers of current brown medical students represent a sizeable increase over past years since roughly 5% of all doctors are of Indian origin, and many of them studied abroad:
In the US, Indians and Indian-Americans make up the largest non-Caucasian segment of the American medical community, where they account for one in every 20 practicing doctors. [Link]
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p>My thoughts at this point go off in two different directions. The first is about the clannishness of desi doctors. How many times have you heard a doctor say that nobody can understand what they go through unless they’re a doctor themselves? It’s as if they think that being a doctor is distinct from other professions, on a plane of its own, completely inaccessible to people who do other things for a living. They also love to boast about the hours they work, even though (post-residency) my doctor friends work both shorter and more predictable hours than friends who are lawyers, iBankers or programmers.
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p>I don’t understand why they feel this way though – I’ve never heard anything similar from engineers. Is it the combination of the long training and the high salaries? What’s at the root of this medical exceptionalism?
My other thought has to do with how little the multicultural nature of the medical profession is reflected on TV. ER finally has a one desi doctor. To the best of my knowledge, none of the other medical shows do (although I don’t watch much TV so please correct me if I’m wrong).
This is part of a larger problem, namely that the America you see on the small screen is significantly whiter than reality. An analysis of the 2001 Fall Season found that:
White characters received 81 percent of screen time, while non-Hispanic whites make up about 70 percent of the population. [Link]
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p>An article I once read made the case that this was driven by audiences and advertisers, namely that white Americans felt most comfortable with shows that skewed whiter than what than realistic demographics, and therefore advertisers were willing to pay more to reach them. The article below makes a similar argument, but puts the blame more squarely on advertisers:
The FCC has collected plenty of … evidence, illustrating a range of racist assumptions about non-white customers openly cited by advertisers as reasons to pay less for ads in ethnic markets, or not to buy them at all. There’s the buyer for Ivory soap who refused to purchase time on a Latino-formatted station because “Hispanics don’t bathe as frequently as non-Hispanics.” (FCC study, “When Being No. 1 Is Not Enough: The Impact of Advertising Practices on Minority-Formatted Broadcast Stations,” 1/99) Companies have cited worries that “our pilferage will increase,” if they advertise on minority stations, or said simply, “Your station will bring too many black people to my place of business.” If that’s not racism, what is?… [Link]
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p>This is part of how we end up with TV shows like Friends that are set in New York City but which show a city which is whiter than Boise, Idaho. To me, that’s just bad television and I refuse to watch it.
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p>I do realize that because of stereotypes about Asians we’re likely to see Asian representation on TV increase soon, but I want more than just parity for yellows and brownz. And yes, I do also realize that TV shows are fantasy not reality, but that’s precisely what bothers me. If the absence of minority characters represents the fantasy world of white viewers, then what does that tell us about them?
Related Stories: How Asian doctors saved the NHS
hey videsi ~ bideshi!
the only problem is, those identities exist irrespective of privelage. Sure, they may parallel with majority & privelage at certain points, but they weren’t defined by privelage.
I actually think a really interesting piece on “whiteness” is The Possessive Investment in Whiteness by George Lipsitz. I think it’s helpful to understand how this term operates, particularly in the academy, before we all get into a huge conversation about it. Personally, I think it’s important to delineate the creation of “white” as a racial category from “whiteness,” which is (generally) a concept around privilege and white supremacy. Just so we all know where we’re coming from, you know? 🙂
HMF, could you post your second book link again? My browser won’t scroll left/right to copy it, and because it isn’t “linked” I can’t tell what it is.
Also, not sure I would agree that races are constructed on the basis of genetic similarity. I don’t claim to be an expert on race in the U.S., but I’m pretty confident that the genetic explanations post-date the initial construct of race and institutions of racism. I’m with PS on this one — all races are a social construction, and they vary by time, region, etc. I wouldn’t, however, agree that race=culture. I can see how they could be related, and they’re definitely both fluid and constructed, but I’m hesitant to reduce the idea of race, particularly in the U.S., to a culturalist explanation.
the only problem is, those identities exist irrespective of privelage. Sure, they may parallel with majority & privelage at certain points, but they weren’t defined by privelage.
i don’t really agree with this. a close reading of the history of islamic treatment of dhimmis, of the hindu attitude toward mlechas & outcastes and the chinese han attitude toward “barbarians” shows that the same dynamics are at work. similarly, native groups who earlier exhibited “uncivilized” behavior were eventually assimilated to the elite identity. the malwali became muslims in equal standing (to the point where they co-opted the state structures the arabs built in the 10th century). burman ahoms become righteous hindu defenders of the faith against the mughals. while sinicized fujianize in their turn look down upon taiwanese tribal peoples as they colonize that island after the 16th century. the very hallmark of “civilized” people since the rise of sumer has been the dynamic of privileged elites, marginalized non-elites, the emulation of the latter toward the models of the former (e.g., the transition from the neo-sumerian renaissance toward the rule of amorite nomad chiefs who eventually became the vehicles for sumerian culture and traditions in the ancient world).
Personally, I think it’s important to delineate the creation of “white” as a racial category from “whiteness,” which is (generally) a concept around privilege and white supremacy. Just so we all know where we’re coming from, you know? 🙂
i would argue that supremacy is not new. the difference is that in the 19th century racial science systematized in a manner without precedent, because racial science (as opposed to folk theories) was an outgrowth of taxonomy and evolutionary biology and these fields only arose in the 18th (former) and 19th (latter) centuries.
I think American whites basically find blacks to be interesting and so are willing to watch TV shows with blacks stars. I don’t think they really find any other group to be very interesting — there are barely any Hispanics on mainstream TV, and the small sprinkling of East Asians and South Asians, they are not seen as or written as different from whites — just whites with different skin tones and funny names. But blacks whites will watch.
Also HMF, who peed in your corn flakes?
razib,
all that is missing the point. whiteness cannot exist without a concept of race privelage, and supremecy. Hindu can.
Camille,
here you go
This guy.
Oops, that was me, HMF who posted that. typed nada by mistake, sorry, not trying to impersonate.
HMF, it’s “privilege,” not “privalege” as you keep typing. You remind me of this black nationalist guy in college who would leave quotes by “Malcom X” all over the dorms and student union.
Anyway I don’t buy the whole concept of “white privilege” anyway. If browns had built the best societies you wouldn’t be complaining. Just work harder to make India better.
all that is missing the point. whiteness cannot exist without a concept of race privelage, and supremecy. Hindu can.
yes, hindu, but what about hinduness???
i think that “whiteness studies” describes some real phenomenon, but they
a) picked a confusing name
b) it isn’t anything that conventional history & sociology doesn’t already describe
how does this in any way contribute to the american dialogue on race relations? it also does not help a vast majority of people on this blog, because most have a stronger attachment – emotional, cultural, whatever it may be – to the US than to india. let’s also not forget that india is not the only desi nation/culture represented by our bloggers.
The way some of you people write about whites, if I was white and reading this, I’d probably become indignant and develop racist attitudes against y’all. As a desi, if what you guys are saying is correct then I guess I’m grateful that people like you realise it…
Ditto.
Television is one type of medium delivering content to the masses. Till recent times, this marketplace was dominated by a few networks whose goal was to deliver whatever content their audience ate up, consistently. White people being a majority meant that most of the product was geared towards this group among the limited ‘pipelines’ of content delivery available. There isn’t, IMHO, anything insidious about it, just a fact of what the market was and how shifting demographics and tastes, increased competition from cable television, has resulted in a far more dynamic setting catering to more diversity. Now, you still have the shows that are for white middle class families, but you also have television shows that fill voids let previously (or a show like ER that has evolved with the changing market).
Vali Chandrasekaran
Rajiv Shah (Okay, so none of his scripts have been picked up yet, but he’s a good friend, great guy, and deserves the plug. His next movie should be released nationwide. )
Sanjay Shah
And if Dreamworks ever adapts “Opal Mehta,” we can add Kaavya to that esteemed list.
Michael Richards: still not a Jew. [Link]
heh.
re: hollywood. while i despise them for their hate-mongering, anti-semitism , and racism, i agree with the black power movement on this one. stop begging whites for acceptance. you have bollywoood and with the internet the barrier to entry is only getting lower in the entertainment industry.
whites are just as tribal as mutineers. it’s unrealistic to expect them to be as enlightened as me and paul woilfowitz. make your own films.
Speaking of unrealistically ethnic-homogenous TV shows, anyone here watch shows on BET? I used to watch several of them and was always struck by how the tables were turned, as it were – if the characters were shown going to a nice restaurant, there were a few token white people, and everyone else was black (though always on the lighter side of black). I suppose that does reflect reality to some extent in that even among wealthier folks in the US there is ethnic/racial self-segregation, and even the wealthier suburbs of DC reflect this, with PG County being a “black suburb” and the VA suburbs being more “white.”
The spelling bee just finished. And as for not buying the concept, well, that’s exactly what they want. But how do you explain results like this? Where “black” soundinig names were about 30% less likely to get called back as white sounding ones, despite credentials being exactly the same.
As for “creating the best civilization” it’s clear you’ve yet to even scratch the surface of the white-washed history that you’ve been repeatedly fed. And it’s Malcolm X. perhaps one of the greatest men to ever live, who subsequently changed his name to El Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, not “Malcom X”
Elizabeth II, Queen of Australia is head of state. The Union Jack is in the canton of the Aussie flag. English is the official language. You don’t become a citizen without knowing it at competent level.
Australia is 92% European. So you are seeing the occasional non-European on TV. How many North East Indians do you see on Indian TV?
You have to get out of Melbourne or Sydney. Even Melbourne is mostly European, Sydney has much higher Asian, ie Chinese population. There are places where Asians are over represented, the universities for instance. Sectors like IT, Accounting, Banking.
The thing I like about Australia is no affirmative action, no quotas, no reservation, no special privileges to interest groups. If you are good you are In or else out.
“luna, what does “they do it in Bollywood” mean? Not sure if it counts when the dominant population is desi.
I thought the “overrepresentation” or whatnot on Seinfeld made sense because wasn’t the Jewishness of it kind of a big part of the show? Kind of like how in “The Nanny” the nanny being Jewish is a big part of the humor and story? Feel free to correct me, I am not a Seinfeld fan and was too young to get into it in its pre-syndication days. :)” Camille, what I mean is that East Indians have a precendent of making movies. They have done it frequently and intensely for decades. The Indian style is different from this country’s but still, it seems to be in the blood. There is already Shylaman (did I spell that right?) so it’s happening. If you’re too young to get into Seinfeld, you’re way, way too young to understand “Jewishness” as it was expressed in tv comedy, movies and etc., years ago. I just barely recall it myself, in young middle age, and know it more from just soaking up information than from experience. Around 1970, something happened in this country. Boundaries melted. Jewish outmarriage was under 2% in 1960. By 1980 it was something like 30%. Now it’s supposedly 50%. Sorry about the semite-centered commentary, but I happened to have a lot Jewish acquaintances and friends and studied a lot about media. And yes, “Jewishness” was a big part of it, but speaking as one familiar with comedy routines, movies and tv of earlier days, “Jewishness” was a lot more self-conscious and, well, less “universal” then they managed to make it on Seinfeld. Which is to be expected–the 1990s were several generations removed from the immigrant experience. When Emma Thompson was on Charlie Rose, she said that if older women want more varied role, they will have to write and produce them themselves. That stuck with me. It really goes for any category that feels itself underrepresented while staring at “that hopeless little screen) (a la Leonard Cohen).
and if your an aboriginal, your f-cked.
“just to be empirically accurate, of the main characters only jerry was explicitly jewish. kramer was vague. george and elaine were suggested as being non-jewish (e.g., george’s surname, elaine’s “WASP” sociocultural backgroud). all four actors though are jewish in real life.”
Yes, of course. Which goes to show the “universal” element. Actually the actress who played George’s mother wanted to know if the character was Jewish as that would affect how she did the role. Ditte Stiller (Jewish) who played the father. Despite the Italian last name, according to one commentator, the Castanzas come off as appearing to be in a witness protection program.
Ever heard of Hutus and Tutsis?
“Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson demand that Hollywood make 40% (or something like that) of its actors, black Yeah I’m sure it was something like that. I’m not a fan of either- but some of the BS that is attributed to them is just ridiculous. By the by did you READ the links Ennis posted?” dilletante, You know, I can’t find the quote source just now, but I did read it in a mainstream rag. The percentage they were demanding amazed me as it was way over the black percentage of total population. I guess I do need to read Ennis’ links more carefully, if I have missed vital information. I brought up Sharpton as an example of loudly demanding the seemingly impossible and getting the seemingly impossible. This is not recommended as a tactic for greater desi representation, but the media tends to think it is sufficiently diverse if blacks are represented. Other people of color can be ignored. It is a matter of record (Chicago Tribune, April 11) that two of Jesse Jackson’s sons got prime Budweiser franchises ($33million) when their dad agreed not to urge a boycott Budweiser’s racist-stereotyped commercials. Whatever works.
HMF,
I know it’s “Malcolm” and not “Malcom” but my point was that you keep talking about “white privalege” instead of “privilege,” just like the guy at my school who would copy sheets of paper of Malcolm X quotes and spell it “Malcom.” It looked ridiculous.
As for best societies, well, just watch the direction the feet shuffle. But HMF’s microscope only works on white people it seems.
Oh well, off to be oppressed by the man. How I do suffer.
One opinion on browns not being represented on medico TV shows and 277 comments later we have :
India branded as racist , backward , Indian culture is “little”,DBDs are discriminatory
One brain-dead action by an almost has been on a pop culture TV show in India and many comments later we have:
India branded as racist , backward ,DBDs as discriminatory , an article on the Indian national anthem referred to as “stupid shit”
Is everything on SM going to degenerate into an opportunity for the PGs and Premas and others of their ilk to spew ignorance and vituperation at India and Indians ?
Kinda like Bollywood or Spanish Telenovelas right? we’ve been there before. I suspect that housewives of all colors in the US would resemble Rosanne ($$/weight) more than the desperate ladies on Wisteria Lane. Though that’s the verisimilitude you mentioned earlier.
Thankfully I have never been confused* about my race- or wanted to conflate my identity to any desi person. My point was IN SPITE of the unity sounding bit from the ‘black’ police in the UK– which surprised the heck out of me. I would have never suspected any sort of coalition btw the two groups from my own observations. *I have been reminded, in oblique ways, about my race– whenever some ‘other’ person felt I wasn’t keeping it real enough.
And that pretty much sums it up.
“As for best societies, well, just watch the direction the feet shuffle. But HMF’s microscope only works on white people it seems. “
Oh yes, and colonialism, slavery, and native american genocide had nothing to do with that? Unless of course, those are elements you applaud.
“Oh well, off to be oppressed by the man. How I do suffer. “
I love it when it turns to this kind of sarcasm, because it’s really the only avenue available, instead of answering my question about the obvious disparity in employment selection, which obviously doesn’t compute with your [mis]conception that “we’re all equal!”
I’m from ‘Jesus land’ as you call it. living in London has been the fist time for me to see such a diversity of African Nationals- In my Midwest friendliness/ignorance- just plain interest and not just a little ‘racial’ pride. I remember asking a waitress where she was from. She proudly told me Rwanda, but she went on to ask me if I’d thought she was from Ethiopia [I’m guessing she was Tutsi]. Actually I’m familiar with ‘those’ people, and had not thought that at all. I suppose its all relative on where you are who the modal minority is. (Its not a simple as ‘desi’ =doctor here.)
Luna- I hear you. I also don’t want to conflate my identity on you, but I feel subsumed when Jesse and Al are taken as ‘the voice/hairstyle’ etc. of all AfAm’s. The point about the links Ennis provided was the double speak when it came to advertsing dollars. Even when ‘ethnic’ outlets provided evidence that their demo’s matched the target mkt– some where not interested. Because Urban/Spanish is not the image they had in mind– sort of like values before hunger or something to that effect I ‘think’ you wrote elsewhere? Which comes back to Ennis question about ‘what the fantasy is’
It’s not really something for ‘brown’ people to worry about since as has been discussed for the most part- you are not burdened with the negative stereotypes other groups are.
But that leaves capatilist of some colors in a funny place. Well it leaves me in the ‘proud’ to be American even with its fcuked up history as regards me.
I’ll be happier when I see a desi cast in a non-traditional role (i.e. NOT a doctor) versus as the tried and true. That’s when we see real representation – when roles are written with no ethnicity in mind.
Battlestar Gallactica is a GREAT example – Korean, Indian, African, African-American, American Indian…they’ve got it all and it’s never about the ethnicity!
the word of the day…
“but I feel subsumed when Jesse and Al are taken as ‘the voice/hairstyle’ etc. of all AfAm’s.”
yes dilletante, point taken. It is indeed annoying to be identified with someone with whom you feel limited agreement. Sorry. Using those two as examples was a bit too lazy and easy of me; probably also Law&Order and Seinfeld were dog-eared examples for my case. But let’s face it–some people make an awful lot of noise and the media gives them megaphones, for a multitude of reasons. The Christians didn’t deserve to have Fallwell is their mascot, poor things. Some of them are quite nice, thinking individuals. It’s the bully pulpit thing, and many groups (define “group” as you will) have been guilty of this. They drown out alternative and often wiser voices and make those outside their “group” draw incompletely informed assumptions. I could have taken the trouble to cast about for less egregious examples to illustrate my points, but it wouldn’t much alter the case as far as tv and movies go.
I once read something that said African’s make up the highest post graduate immigrants to the US. Makes sense, if you don’t have educational credentials, you’re treated like sh*t. Whereas European immigrants can come with severly less educational credentials and still make it via “non-existent” white privilege.
A quick look here, at the percentage of African immigrants with college degrees, and here at the percentage of European immigrants with college degrees, shows a pretty stark difference, nearly 43% vs 30%
indians too. gas station owners, convienice stores, hotels, etc. must be brown privilege.
Actually, Indian immigrants come over with significantly higher level of educational qualification as their African counterparts, nearly 70% have a bachelor degree or higher. Then again it’s not a fair comparison because it’s a country vs an entire continent, Asia in general is about the same, as Africa, 43%.
You can’t imagine how giddy I am, my personal opinion and experience just happens to match the US Census data.
HMF,
In nearly every post you bust on the US. I know it’s an old question, but really man: if you hate it so much here why not move to the desh?? Or somewhere? You post almost nothing positive here about the US and all kinds of white people this, white people that. Way out of proportion to reality. I bet 99%+ of the white people you come into contact with mean you nothing but good will. Can you reciprocate? Can you try?
See, this is my point. Where did you pull 99% from? your ass? A statement like that is just as absurd as saying all whites are inherently evil (which I’ve never claimed, and never will). When study after study has shown clear disparity in housing, employment (as the one I quoted to you), criminal justice all you can come back with is “go back to where you came from?”
Manju, we see this in the UK too (cornershop owners, dhabas, taxi drivers, etc). That said, it is dangerous to assume that folks are in those industries because they have less “cultural capital” or “human capital” when they come over. For years the UK’s migration policy was strictly biased towards professionals (e.g. doctors, engineers) and definitely to college degree holders. Nonetheless, there were HUGE levels of unemployment among desis in the UK until folks started trying to pursue their own self-owned business ventures. Was it because they were less educated or somehow less capable? No. It was because the UK had such glaring racial discrimination that almost no one would hire you if you were Jamaican, Pakistani, or Indian.
While it may be a hard pill to swallow, HMF is right in asserting that it is much easier to migrate here if you are (white) from Europe. It’s getting a bit harder if you’re a “visible ethnic minority” from Europe. And, while it is impossible to have firm estimates, many immigration researchers posit that one of the largest proportions of “undocumented” immigrants are often foreign exchange students from Europe who have let their papers lapse. Surprising given the popular rhetoric, no?
Assuming you swallow and don’t spit.
Wasn’t trying to hate 🙂 Just saying that whether or not folks accept it, it is factually true that it is easier to immigrate from Europe (and other “European settled”) countries to the U.S. than from the rest of the world, especially relative to % of global population.
Camille, it wasn’t directed at you.
but if we control for education, how do indian immigrants compare to whites? i gather form your statement about uneducated whites still making it due to white priviledge, that stats show they are doing better than non-white immigrants with similar lack of education. is this true?
HMF,
OK, tell me the five worst things white people have done to you in the past five years. Really. Let’s have it. I want to hear whence comes this ability of yours to feel the oppression of one pea under ten mattresses.
And not what’s been done to people you’ve never met who aren’t even brown, but what’s happened to YOU, dear HMF. Go.
From a logical standpoint, I would say so, they wouldn’t emigrate otherwise. Bad news travels fast.
Wait a minute, first my personal experience shouldn’t be used in drawing conclusions, then when I produce actual data that supports disparity, that’s thrown out and replaced with “99% of white people you meet have nothing but goodwill”, then when that’s challenged as being absurd, you come back to personal experience?
camille:
i hear what you’re saying. my family left the uk. but usa is not uk and the level of discrimination and oppourtunity is much differnt here…though my family was in the uk during the 60’s and 70’s.
i doubt the scenario you paint professionals starting small businees is really relevent here. it’s been a few years, but i was in retail financial sales and i can’t recall coming accross that scenario in all the meetings i had with small biz owners.
I never said your personal experiences shouldn’t be used in drawing conclusions, someone else did. I’m asking for your personal experiences. Will you give them?