Gustavo Arellano runs a nationally syndicated column titled “Ask a Mexican” which began three years ago (first as a joke) in the OC Weekly. A while back, over the tip-line, someone suggested we run a similar column. I think it’s a good idea. I think I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna be the “Desi” with the answers. So…if you have any questions for a Desi (or Indian, South Asian, whatever you prefer) I am now your man. Send them my way at abhi [at] sepiamutiny dot com. I will try to answer at least one question a week and I will only tackle questions sent via email and not via the comments. I will more than likely ask my bunker mates to opine on certain inquiries, especially if they are more qualified desis for a particular question. To get you in the mood, here is the latest “Ask a Mexican” column:
Q: Is it true that there are a lot more Mexicans hooking up with East Indians now? I know a few mixed Mexican-Indian couples, and I’ve heard that in some parts of the country, there are communities full of Mexican Hindus (products of Mexican-East Indian intermarriage). Is it true that this is a rising trend? If so, do you have any advice for young Indian-Americans interested in attracting Mexican girls or guys?
–El Otro Tipo de Indio
A: Dear Other Type of Indian: I try not to answer questions about interethnic amor (that’s more of a Dan Savage thing), but I’ll run yours because it allows me to plug Making Ethnic Choices: California’s Punjabi Mexican Americans. This fascinating 1994 ethnography by University of California Irvine anthropology professor Karen Leonard studies Mexican women in the United States who married men from the Punjab region of what’s now India and Pakistan during the first half of the 20th century. There are muchos similarities between Mexican and Punjabi cultures — a love of flatbreads (tortillas and rotis), spicy cuisine and loud, drum-based music (banda and bhangra, respectively) — but Leonard concludes that American immigration policies barring most Asian women from entering this country inspired many of the unions, and that both Mexican and Indian-American communities (never mind the gabachos) discriminated against these families… [Link]
Please, ask this macaca all kinds of questions and not just cheesy relationship questions. I just want to heal. Like Dr. Phil. Or Frasier Crane.
Well, not being a world class musician or winning wimbledon doesn’t mean you’re untalented.
As for everyone being a champion speller, I disagree, spelling is more than rote vomitting of letters, it’s a linguistic process. Many people link spelling of words with their inclusion into the working vocabulary, parsing the word into roots, and origin (at Scripps, you can request word origin) Being able to link phonetic pronounciation to iconographic descriptions of a word (many spellers try and “see” the word) is another strategy employed, and some people are better at visualization than others. Linguistic ability is surely variant amongst a populace, some people learn languages quickly, others learn slowly.
Surely, playing Beethoven’s 5th is not as mesmerizing as spelling the word “helebore” correctly, but to dimish it to a rote process is too simple I think.
And speaking of talent, when Itzhak Pearlman was approached by a fan that said to him, “You are so talented, I’d give anything to play like you” .. He replied, “Well, I did.”
I hate to be that guy, but it is hellebore 🙂
i learned to play rachmaninov pretty well by rote. the same way i learned math. maybe im a bit odd.
You are a shame to Indians everywhere.
Blanket Statement Alert :
In Amreeka accent is more important than spelling.
this might be true. depending on your field. in a lot of businesses speaking is fairly important, but the spellchecker catches spelling errors in business documents.
I don’t know of any desi who has lived in a latino-heavy area in the States that hasn’t got disapproving looks from folks trying to speak to them in Spanish and not buying the “I swear I’m not spanish” protest – it’s like aunties all over again, with the head-shaking about these kids who’ve lost their roots (well, maybe I have lost my roots, they just ain’t your roots).
As for cultural commonalities, the telenovela is certainly something that desis hooked on mangalsutra soaps can identify with – and the show Jassi Jaisi Koi Nahin was of course based on Betty la fea. There’s a good deal that translates culturally between latinos and desis and Middle Easterners, actually, I watched a Mexican film version of a Naguib Mahfouz novel (with Salma Hayek in it) that worked really well, culturally speaking.
For those of you who believe in evolution. This has been on my mind, along with the fact that i can not recall phone numbers ever since i have a cell phone. Do you think later versions of sapiens will have less evolved ..cough…brains? Or at least the part that handles memory?
I disagree, spelling is more than rote vomitting of letters, it’s a linguistic process
I think you overemphasize the importance of the linguistic process with regard to spelling like a champion.
First, I assume that any entrant in a spelling competition has a certain level of facility with the language of the competition, and therefore, any variation due to disparities in the ability to learn language is nullified. Second, unlike the bare linguistic process associated with learning a language, spelling is largely rote learning. Once you’ve seen and heard a word, you can usually spell it, even without knowing the etymological background of the word (although structural details like that are certainly useful).
The point is, everyone can be trained to spell like a champion. But not everyone can be trained to pitch like Roger Clemens, no matter how much time and energy is devoted to mastering the skill.
I know, but I was being a Clever McCleverface by typing out the incorrect spelling given by our Mr. Kadakia.
Somebody ought to do a Chingo Singh mashup in honour of this occasion.
I can’t pass this up – what are mangalsutra soaps? Marriage-related telenovelas? Please enlighten me, SP.
I’m on it.
According to Steven Pinker, a high school student has command of 60,000 words. But the champions of spelling bees must use principles of similarity, origin, and recursion to be able to spell the esoteric words (like esoteric) that get thrown at them. So things like etymology and word roots become much more important. Spelling at the level these kids do it is certainly not something everyone can do, because even if your downplaying of innate linguistic ability is correct, championship level spelling would require a memory that far exceeds normal capacities.. That is not something universally acquired.
Spelling at the level these kids do it is certainly not something everyone can do
I disagree. If the movie Spellbound was anything to go on, these kids spend literally years training for the Spelling Bee, and anyone could spell at that level, with that amount of training.
Also, my larger point really was that there are more useful skills to cultivate. Spelling is a largely useless skill in the modern world, isn’t it? I mean, being a great speller may help you quickly identify a word you’ve never heard before, but that happens rarely in the real world, and I can’t think of a profession where being a really great speller puts you at a distinct advantage over your peers.
Ok, to bring it all back to the Mexicans and the Indians: What I thought was amazing in the Spellbound movie was that the child of illiterate Mexican immigrants was training herself for the spelling bee. And the child of the Indian immigrants had all these fancy tutors.
And he almost got out on the word Darjeerling! Ironic, isn’t it. His parents hired him French and Latin tutors and to learn word roots and he almost got out on a word from India.
Lisa Sparks makes 60k a season in WNBA . Spelling Bee pays 30k for a week’s competition. I won’t even go into Poker….
And people like Roger Clemens don’t undergo the same level of training to perfect their skills?
The movie spellbound to me shows that not everyone has the right mindset and temperament to undergo such training, that only a select few make it into the final rounds, where it becomes more or less a luck of the draw as to who wins.
Its the same in sports too.. Ever heard of Dan Marino.. and Roger Clemens? Both of these athletes are excellent players, neither of them have a ring.
And I largely agree that there are larger skills to cultivate, Spelling in and of itself is not a useful skill, however insofar as it builds a sense of comraderie, healthy competition, and discipline, it’s as useful as anything else.
You can kick ass in wheel of fortune.
Boondi – these are serials made by Ekta Kapoor that you couldn’t have missed if you were in India at any point in the last five years. Here are the main ingredients.
Can we re-title this post to “Ask a Desi to Spell”
@65;
Don’t be a Debbie Downer . Some people actually take a lot of pride in their achievement. besides, if everyone can be a Spelling bee champion, why aren’t you one? the fact is one has to have the right attitude and aptitude to become a achieve mastery of a certain task.
besides, if everyone can be a Spelling bee champion, why aren’t you one?
Ah, I was wondering why it took such a long time for someone to trot out the old canard about “if you’re complaining about, it’s only because you’re jealous”.
I already said that I have appreciation for how hard these kids work, but having the ability to apply yourself to a task diligently isn’t the same as having a unique talent. And yes, I probably could have been a spelling champion, but the US is possibly the only country where being able to spell is considered an achievement rather than a natural progression. And since I didn’t grow up in the US, I missed out on the chance to prove I could do what everyone else can do too.
And people like Roger Clemens don’t undergo the same level of training to perfect their skills?
That was my initial point about talent. If average Joe Schmoe trained just as long and hard as Clemens, he probably still wouldn’t be able to pitch like Clemens. But Joe could train just as long and hard as some of these champ spellers and probably spell just as well as they can.
Fwiw, I actually have a friend who won the Spelling Bee way back in 1991, but even she thinks the thing was lame in retrospect.
Did I say somebody? I meant DJDP. It warms my heart to see my demented wish fulfilled so quickly.
I agree with you on point 1, not on point 2. To prove who’s correct, we’d need to have a “she’s all that” type deal where a bunch of spelling champions pick someone who they think could never be one, and he’d need to be trained.
Well, that’s not scripps. but I agree, I’d rather engage in something else, but I won’t think its something everyone can do.
No. Be a Debbie does Downer. now that takes some talent.
Well, that’s not scripps.
Incorrect. It is Scripps, and you can see my friend’s name listed as the 1991 champ.
Oh no kidding, the first link you sent didn’t have scripps in it. Even in the movie spellbound, when they interviewd most of the previos winners, none of them responded, “wow, its the most useful skill I ever learned”
My apologies, then 🙂
Is this a variant of “some of my best friends are blacks/jews”? 🙂 Alright, I need to go practice my pole vault and javelin now.
.
Ouch! that smarts…but I must admit your spelling is I-M-P-E-C-C-A-B-L-E
“but having the ability to apply yourself to a task diligently isn’t the same as having a unique talent”
Is this a variant of “some of my best friends are blacks/jews”? 🙂
Nah. But given the number of desi contestants in the Spelling Bee, the odds are good, no?
being able to spell is one thing. winning one of these bees is a whole nother level.
Yes, some of the spelling bee champs WERE my best friends 🙂
This my friends is a natural talent. This guy will go places. Or at least, be able to name the places he goes to.
(must watch, especially for Tams).
Also, bees are of more value than some people here give them credit for.
Thanks, SP! I’ve only been to India once, and that was for my wedding, so I didn’t get to watch any tv. I’ll ask my husband whether he knows about it – he’s (an out-of-the-loop) Indian, and I’m his foreign tagalong.
“I just want to heal. Like Dr. Phil. Or Frasier Crane.“
Oh, do tell… It’s said so innocently/earnestly that one almost misses how snarkily funny this line is.
Will the healing be like a mallet to the kneecap, so I forget about my headache? 🙂
Parents spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars every year on involving their kids in various actvities. The expectation is to learn everything possible and if the child shines and shows exemplary talent in one of them, pursue it till the cows come home. If not, it is still all good, you are creating guidelines for your child to follow in a certain path to some degree of success. Yet, nothing is guaranteed.
Roger Clemens was probably just another kid, when someone spotted how hard he can throw a ball in the playground,mentored him and made him a money making machine he is today :-). BTW White Sox is going to kick his a$$ on Monday, he won’t last 4 innings!!
Post #68 by HMF Roger Clemens does not have a ring?
Last time I checked Roger Clemens has 2 rings with the Yankees in 1999 and 2000. I hate people who think they know it all, but don’t get there facts right.
BTW White Sox is going to kick his a$$ on Monday, he won’t last 4 innings!!
I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who celebrates when the Yankees bite it. 🙂
to quote billy joel “im in a new york state of mind”
Oh true dat. I meant to say Don Mattingly. I knew there was a yankee who had the Dan Marino syndrome.
I am sorry to see Samir patel lose in the spelling bee. According to http://www.spellingbee.com/statistics.asp, he was the only 5 year repeater in the competition.
That does suck for him, especially now that Peyton has got himself a ring.
I don’t know how important spelling will be if the Spelling Society gets its way: http://www.spellingsociety.org/
There is a movement out there encouraging spelling words as they sound. Especially in light of how people talk to one another (via text messaging,etc).
A staunch supporter of this movement was interviewed by the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) a few weeks ago, and was explaining how the english language has become too difficult and archaic because it’s spelling hasn’t been modernized.
Unlike other languages, where a word is spelled by characters that represent sounds (i.e. Hindi, Urdu, Japanese, etc.) english words are full of complex spelling “codes”. He used many examples, one of which was Castle, why not spell it cassel, which is how it’s now pronounced.
but…different people in different places say the same english word in very different ways.
I can’t believe the kid went to the Bee 5x. That is awful! 🙂
Neale,
Yes! The worst is when you’re editing someone’s paper in any kind of social science or humanities field. Being a TA sometimes makes your eyes BLEED when you read some of the more creative methods of spelling.
hema, I disagree. I think spelling is really helpful, especially in vocabulary development and advanced reading, at least in your school days. I personally love spelling and etymology, mostly because I think it is interesting. But spelling and etymology also really helped me throughout middle and high school as I began to read more advanced work in English class. I think I retained much more because I didn’t have to run to the dictionary every 5th page to figure out a word. I also think it helps you link historical events to the changing use of a word. I also think it helps you define appropriate context. Not to be crazy, but I think spelling, like math, can help build better foundations for understanding. I’m sure this isn’t the case for everyone, but if it is a tool that helps some kids, what’s the harm? I think the craziness of the Spelling Bee is something else entirely!
Haha, I hate the Yankees, and I love the way this thread is going! Next topic: Maths or medicine?
I’m with Puliogre. How would you draw distinctions between homonyms?
I think English is a pain in the butt to learn, and difficult. But I kind of like the pain, I guess?
“but…different people in different places say the same english word in very different ways.”
true. he was referring to words that are no longer pronounced the way they used to be (ex. cough, neighbour (I know, in the US it’s neighbor), laugh -) he discussed changing these words to cof, naybor and laf.
Just an interesting take on this topic.