It’s hard to imagine something worse for a parent than having to cremate their own child. Today Sukhdeo Hardat of Queens has to do just that after his daughter’s policeman ex-fiancé shot her to death in the middle of the street with his service pistol.
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He refused to let go |
Harry Rupnarine joined the NYPD two years ago as a transit police officer. Soon thereafter, while in uniform, he met Guiatree Hardat and became her first serious boyfriend. She had just come to the USA from Guyana, and was studying at Queens College to become a math teacher. He was older, possessive and controlling:
The possessive cop wanted to keep so close an eye on his girlfriend that he often called her a dozen or more times a day. Rupnarine, 37, constantly nagged Guiatree Hardat, 22, to marry him. He was angry that she wanted to wait until she finished college. [Link]
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p>They broke up, but got back together again. Unfortunately, things hadn’t changed much:
Just a week ago, he flipped out when she asked him to come in the kitchen and talk to her while she did some household chores.”Your attention can’t be in two places at once!” he told her, according to Hardat’s relatives. “You must listen to me!”. [Link]
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p>They went out to dinner last Thursday, as Rupnarine tried to patch things back up, but it didn’t work. She called her father at 7:08 PM to ask for a ride, then called him back to say she would take the bus home. He worried:
But Hardat, 46, felt uneasy about his daughter and headed out to find her. Her cell phone kept going straight to voice mail, and when she finally picked up, he heard her final words. “Go away!” the father remembers her daughter yelling at Rupnarine. “I hate you! I hate you!”The call ended at that point, and by the time Hardat arrived at the scene, just past 7:45 p.m., Rupnarine was in handcuffs and Hardat’s daughter was dead on the ground in a pool of blood. [Link]
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p>Rupnarine claimed that he had accidentally shot Hardat while fighting crime:
Rupnarine … called 911 after killing his girlfriend, then tried to pretend he accidentally shot her while fending off robbers. “Two guys with a knife robbed me,” Rupnarine said to responding police officers, according to a statement of his read aloud at his arraignment. “I turned toward her and I shot her. I’m on the job. Please get the guys who robbed me.”
But Rupnarine’s account, authorities said, was contradicted by a number of witnesses, and he was arrested by Internal Affairs investigators within an hour and charged with second-degree murder. [Link]
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p>What makes this especially bitter for her relatives is that since Rupnarine’s parents had died, they had welcomed him into their family. Now her father feels betrayed:
“This guy, his parents passed on,” he said. “I offered, ‘Let us be a guide to your life.’ ” He added in disgust, “He ruined his own life. My daughter is gone, there is no turning back…” [Link]
Guiatree Hardat is to be cremated today.
Depressing.
M. Nam
this is tragic. so utterly tragic.
Does anyone have stats on the prevalence of domestic violence in the immigrant South Asian community vis a vis the ‘mainstream’ community? It seems to me that every other day I hear about something like this among South Asians..
I’ve never seen any. It’s hard enough to find reliable stats for the USA and India, let alone for smaller countries or minority groups.
so sad! another casualty of misogyny and patriarchy. my heart goes out to the family.
This is nauseating.
Domestic violence stories seem to be increasing in popularity in the news media. I’ve heard of a few other cases like this recently; a new tactic to inject American society with fear and judgment, perhaps?
What a depressing story. Poor girl. Poor family.
It seems to me that every other day I hear about something like this among South Asians..
I haven’t seen any statistics specifically breaking down the incidence of domestic violence by immigrant community, but there seems to be a higher trend towards domestic violence among Asian immigrants generally (South Asians, and South East Asians).
Margaret Abraham published a book about 10 years on domestic violence within the South Asian community: Speaking the Unspeakable
Here in Vancouver between October and March, 4 punjabi women were killed and a 5th one was put in a coma by there husbands. After these women died, it came out that all these women were in unhappy marriages and wanted to leave them, but could not due to the shame that is brought upon women if they get a divorce in the punjabi community.
CB — I wonder the same, but I also wonder if it’s that we’re more sensitive to stories like this as a minority.
And get too defensive for fear of negative stereotyping instead of confronting it, I should add.
I dunno, Snapper, this story just felt very American to me. I know it’s tied to larger issues in our community, but it’s the kind of tragedy that I think most Americans would feel could happen in any American community. College student dates older possessive cop …
SAKHI has some data based on their work in the NY area here
When it comes to violence against women in the south asian and other minority groups in western coutries, I feel that women rights group have failed them.
Part of the problem is they hard afraid of saying anything negative about the culture of these groups. It part of that stupid white guilt crap, that there afraid to criticize anything, cause they afraid of being called racist. No matter how sexist or backward some of these cultural beliefs may be concerning the role of women in some immigrant cultures.
I understand Ennis. It happens everywhere.
I feel that women rights group have failed them.
I think that’s more than a little unfair. Domestic violence community workers have typically been extremely sensitive about culture-dependent abuse. They do criticize what they see as excessive paternalism that contributes to the control-controlled dynamic, which is apparently at the root of most violent domestic relationships. They provide services where immigrant women can come talk to people who will understand their cultural problems, etc.
Unfortunately, more often than not, the cultural issues that make these women more susceptible to domestic abuse also make it more difficult for them to contact advocacy groups. A women’s rights group can’t hold a figurative gun to a woman’s head and make her report the abuse. People in the community that the woman belongs to need to take a more proactive approach, IMO.
I agree. Nothing distinctively “desi” or “immigrant” about it, except the unfortunate players in this particular production of the tragedy.
A 22-year-old should not be going out with a 37-year-old. He was closer to her father’s age. He was ready to settle down, she was ready to spread her wings.
Yes this murder has very little to with the couple desi background.
My last comment may have been a little harsh. But some of the stuff I’ve seen since moving to Vancouver in my own community is really sad. I can’t recall how many times I’ve heard stories about women who have been in marriages where there husbands abuse them, yet the women own family blame them and want them to work things out.
yet the women own family blame them and want them to work things out.
I can see that, and it’s not limited to just immigrant communities either. Family dynamics for domestic violence victims can be very complicated. When you’re on the outside, it’s easy to say “oh my god, why don’t you leave him?” But for the woman actually enduring the abuse, it’s never that simple.
If there are kids involved, she may want to keep the family unit together. Often, their partners will be able to convince them that they’ve changed and everything will be different now. Of course, things usually aren’t different, and at some point, the woman breaks down and leaves. But it would shock most people to know just how much abuse women endure before they reach that breaking point.
Divorce is word that in South Asian community that makes people feel uncomfortable.
I bet almost every here at a south asian social event that lives in the west has heard the aunties talk about how the mainstream/white community get divorce 50% of the time and how our way is better. Also that why you marry someone from you own community cause if you marry a white person they when things get hard they will leave you. Also if any south asian couple gets a divorce, the aunties will blame the women.
Clueless @ 13 and 18, I’m not criticising you. But if I got a dollar every time I heard that one. My mom (back in Desh) is a member of such group for over 25 years. She has heard many variations of I feel that women rights group have failed them from family and neighbours of victims, the press, and of course the politicians. Because you know only an underfunded org. could’ve helped the poor victims.
clueless, I wouldn’t agree with the women’s rights groups ‘failing’ women of minority communities, but I do see what you are getting at. It is true, particularly in a culture of PC-ness, that some westerners are afraid to judge others for things they might find odd, but tally up to cultural differences. In criminal law, this issue of ‘cultural defence’ is particularly controversial. one of the first cases using this defense involved a Japanese mother, who committed an honor killing by walking into the Pacific Ocean with her two young children. The reason why this is so controversial is because there seems to be dissent within the communities themselves as to what can be related back to the culture. It would be hard to have a strong cultural defense if your own community doesn’t agree that this is part of the culture. Simplistically, you could ask whether this would be a punishable crime ‘back home.’ In reality, this is extremely frustrating when you add in worldwide travel and immigration. It is even harder for women who finally move to a country where they have greater freedoms, but are unable to enjoy them fully because of domestic/cultural restraints. I know this a bit off-topic, but even if this scenario does not apply to the particular case at hand, it is relevant in similar cases. And not that such details were mentioned, or existed, but cultural ideas of relationships, love, and gender roles often prevent the women from viewing themselves as victims and seeking help. It is a very sad cycle. I really felt my heart sinking when I read this post – not because of any desi aspect, but because things like this should not happen in any country, or culture.
i believe this has little to do with being at different places in life. i suspect that sweet guiatree, like the majority of women in abusive relationships, was all too familiar with controlling behavior from the males around her.
In a part of the article that I didn’t quote directly, her family disliked his behavior and even spoke to his relatives to try to get him to stop being so controlling. I don’t know if there is evidence for your hypothesis.
This is incredibly sad.
I first thought was that this was one of those many stories of an possessive boyfriend, but I find myself agreeing with Ennis. I guess the age difference is a huge issue. Maybe seeking professional help may have been a taboo topic for the guy not only because he is desi but as a police officer too.
I can never imagine what the father is going through, I pray that he finds some sort of peace someday.
Just horrific. I’ve had family members call me and ask for advice b/c there spouse is beating them. I stay on the phone for hours. I try to provide resources. So far it has done NO good. It’s depressing.
Some context here.
This has recently been in the news in Canada that law & order mechanisms are muzzled through allegations of racism by the wingnut Sikh community in British Columbia. Air India bombers like Parmar (an Air India bomber) are feted publicly, and Canadian news periodically report instances where the “family” has stayed mum even when abuse is overt. Nobody ‘outside’ the community seems to have the balls to step up. I for one am appalled that such people are not smacked down by Canadian authorities. This isnt multiculturalism at work. It is a society being held hostage. Those who question cultural malpractices are either shouted down or told to mind their own business. Change has to happen from within the community itself, and it is happening. Still, I resent the idea that a community is a hermetically sealed entity, impenetrable and unbudgeable to outside commentary, opinion, or law. I respect Quebec for bringing the hammer down on the niqab for that matter.
Point being, there is a context to what clueless said. pay hEed.
Ennis,
Would you mind putting up a different picture of her? Like one of her alone- its available in the links. It must make the family feel so much worse seeing that murderer’s picture with her.
Just a thought..don’t know how others feel.
This is terrible. As sort of a tangential curiosity, is her name “Guiatree” an obfuscation of the name “Gayatri”, sort of like how many Guyanese have the name “Persaud” as it’s a deviation from “Prasad”
A friend of mine is named Prasad, and many a white folk have mangled it to “Persaud” or “Persad.”
This sad story was two pages behind another sad South Asian story in NYC this past weekend. A woman was mowed down by a hit and run driver in Long Island as she stepped outside her house with her husband. They buried her on mother’s day. It was awful to read.
You are wrong. Domestic violence is an unfortunate phenomen that affects every race and DV workers work overtime to help women and have a lot of sensitivity towards cultural differences. South Asian culture isn’t big on going outside the home for help and add to that guilt and baggage the victim carries for what is happening to her can be a very complex situation. So often these women go back to their men because of fear of being out on their own. DV workers can only do so much, they can help you if you want their help.
I met a girl in undergrad who had married an abuser, one that was twice her age. I met her through a friend and was concerned when she told us over lunch how her husband has beat her to a pulp that the police have pictures of her bruised body. In fact, her husband told her before they married that if he were a woman, he wouldn’t marry him. (Not sure why this didn’t raise a huge red flag…) I offered to help her get out by having her move into our apartment. Her parents were distraught with what she was going through. Her father had become half a man…and her mother constantly worried. I thought she would truly get out as she was getting her degree and could find solace. She was trying to get help from the Imam as well…who told her she shouldn’t leave him so easily. I wanted to help and tried to do all I could…as it got closer to graduation, I realized she constantly lied to me. Not sure why…what was I going to do? She was still seeing the bastard…we lost touch after I graduated b/c as I realized there was not much I could do for her…she didn’t seem to want to leave the situation. I heard from a friend that she moved back in with the bastard…had gotten pregnant but decided to have an abortion….I pray she is alive and safe…but am not sure. She made the choice to stay despite all evidence to the contrary…
This is very sad. If anyone is interested in helping women like Guiatree I know that there are several domestic violence orgs out there that focus specifically on helping South Asian women. Sakhi (http://www.sakhi.org/) is one in the NYC metro area.
Dear Clueless:
When it comes to violence against women in the south asian and other minority groups in western coutries, I feel that women rights group have failed them.
After volunteering at Maitri (www.maitri.org) for 14 years in the Bay Area, I take vehement exception to your statement. The MAIN problem is our own community…right from attacking young women like Anna on this blog to auntjis and unclejis talking major bs about our culture and how arranged marriages are superior to “love” marriages and how our culture worships the female goddess therefore there can no discrimmination against women. As the joke goes, if I had a dollar everytime someone told me about the superiority of the desi culture vs. the mainstream one here in the US, I would be a billionaire by now. (And, don’t get me started on the fact India, Pakistan, and B’desh have had women prime ministers. What the fxxk does that prove?)
The total lack of community support for women to leave violent marriages or relationships due to the shame factor, the total support of the community of violent men so that they can get married again and again (we have had atleast half a dozen cases at Maitri where we have worked with the first, second, and third wife of the same axxhole), the fact that doctors in the Vancouver and Toronto are doing a roaring business with sex selection…these white doctors know how to say in Punjabi if it’s a girl or boy.
Please spare me the finger pointing at the mainstream community until we fix our own community. In Maitri, we have had huge support from the mainstream agencies, churches, and police whereas only distrust, blame, and shame from the local mandirs, gurdwaras, and the desi community.
Sonya
In my previous post, I forgot to mention the statistics for desis (the rant took off with me).
All of the studies does in the Asian communities (Chinese, Laotian, Indian, Hmong, Vietnamese) show that domestic violence is equal to or slightly higher than the mainstream nos but is very under reported.
The newer studies done in the last couple of years is show dv to be between 30 and 40 percent as apposed to the 30% for the mainstream community.
Sonya
Sonya – if you’ve got any links, those would be great. I’ve previously written posts about the stats on domestic violence in India and domestic violence in Bangladesh in world context. I’ve never seen the studies you’re describing.
Sonya, I don’t think clueless meant to say that South Asian based rights group have been fruitless, rather that “mainstream” white dominated organizations have had their hands tied, because any help to correct the “Indian savagery” would be regarded as pejorative and racist – a perception cultivated solely by the evil desi hoardes sweeping the nation. Am I right clueless, isn’t that what you meant?
ennis, was not trying to point fingers at the family. not my intention at all and sincere apologies if that’s the way it came across. just trying to point out the fact that we live in a culture (globally) that condones/promotes various types of aggression toward females. it creates a climate ripe for acts like these across cultures.
I agree with Sonya. An Indian family friend’s daughter recently died from an act of violence by her American boyfriend. I have heard some Indian women talking behind the family’s back–blaming the girl for “going around with her boyfriend” although she was in her 30s, blaming the family for letting her do so, etc. The girl had been in the hospital for a while before she died and the family was too ashamed to tell the community about it because they knew they would be talked about like this. It disgusts me. On top of all their grief and anger, the family should not feel ashamed of their daughter because her boyfriend murdered her. I would not be surprised if more victim-blaming is occurring with this family in certain circles of the South Asian community.
We also need to keep in mind that Clueless is from Vancouver. Canada much like the UK has a very different attitude about multiculturalism and the law. I don’t think its fair to compare US domestic violence agencies (which are much less afraid) to call out culture when it comes to domestic violence even when it is unrelated.
cont from above… to Canadian ones which may not even be willing to understand the cultural components of it. I don’t believe domestic violence is a cultural problem but there are definately different cultural ramifications and expressions of the power and control which are at the hear of domestic violence.
“Canada much like the UK has a very different attitude about multiculturalism and the law. I don’t think its fair to compare US domestic violence agencies (which are much less afraid) to call out culture when it comes to domestic violence even when it is unrelatedâ€.
Not sure what you mean. But here is a link to a documentary from the bbc a few months back with a few links.
BBC Asian Network
I really hope someone with a better knowledge of the Indo-Caribbean community chimes in here – Paging Floridian!
My sense is that the type of Sikh- or Punjabi culture specific issues that Clueless mentions in the Canadian context do not directly apply to the Indo-Caribs in New York. Ennis and Nina P have already said this – there’s nothing here that seems ‘desi’ other than the affected parties themselves.
It could have happened to anyone else with different ethnicity, and in fact, it has. I found a half-dozen “enraged jealous cop kills girlfriend” type stories – in a very quick search – including one in South Africa which occured just last week, and another one in NYC from 2001. Many of them also involve suicides, and the killer isn’t always male.
What I see here is a controlling personality (often bred into cops), an access to guns, a predisposition to suspecting others of not telling the truth, etc, combined with individual circumstances, leading to this kind of tragedy.
Thanks to everyone who provided stats.
Meenakshi, I strongly second your motion to replace the photo with one of Guiatree alone. Very thoughtful and the right thing to do.
Guria and Sonya, I think you’re right on the ball. My father was abusive to my mother. I, typically, got into an abusive relationship. After one rather public argument with my ex, my father actually said: ‘if you fight with him, who will be able to respect you?’ My own father! And to this day, many of my mother’s relatives blame her for leaving my father, though they are perfectly aware that he abused her. This collective abuse of women in the South Asian community is the petri dish in which DV can flourish.
It would be nice to see less denial from the desi community, especially desi males.
I have always wondered what causes a ‘suspicious mind’? Is it betrayal of trust in childhood? Is it a result of the ‘othering’ that happens in transplanted lives?
It’s really tragic this incident happened, it’s also tragic that this discussion has spiraled into yet another indictment on the horrible state of women in India/Indian culture when there’s absolutely no indication the incident in question occured as a result of it.
Just a preliminary theory wrt a situation like DV: Maybe it has something to do with barely understanding your own situation, and not believing that you could even explain the situation to others. So, you believe that there’s no way anyone could possibly understand, let alone help. So you keep it to yourself, “suspicious” that, if anyone knew, they would misunderstand and possibly misjudge you. You start to believe (and chain yourself to the belief) that you’re alone in your understanding of the situation, that you’re alone in your “ability” to help yourself. Ironically, you never end up helping yourself. You just live in fear of your situation, and getting blamed for being in that situation.
I agree with the first part here, but not necessarily with the second part. I think it’d be ideal to see less denial (and more support and understanding) among desi victims. I mean, theoretically, if the victims could band together in support and stand up for themselves, we wouldn’t see people living with these kinds of abusive circumstances, right?
Just my thoughts.
HMF – how is a discussion of DV in the South Asian community ‘tragic’? Can you really have used that term to describe, in one breath, a gruesome killing and a topic in an SM thread? Your apparent detachment is, perhaps, itself tragic. The number of commenters who point out the prevalence of DV in the South Asian community suggests that it deserves attention.
I’m with Ennis, Nina P and JOAT – there is nothing “uniquely” desi about DV. As we’ve discussed at length on other threads, DV is widespread across communities. The players this time just happen to be desi.
But I’m also with Sonya. While I think there’s a good deal of misogyny in the mainstream in the U.S., the misogyny that women face in the desi-American community is staggering. I also don’t think it’s right to blame women’s rights groups — in many cases these women-led groups are doing all that they can with little formal community support, limited funding, limited staffing, and they are taking on taboo topics. I understand the frustration, but really, we do a lot more good supporting (either by volunteering or funding) the work of organizations that are doing targeted outreach and service-provision and in changing our attitudes than railing against them.
Also, I feel what clueless is saying, but I’m with trollerboi in that the Vancouver community is CRAZY and they have a reputation of being crazy. I don’t think they’re emblematic, nor are they representative, of many desi communities, Sikh, Punjabi, or otherwise.
HMF,
I understand your point here, but I don’t know if you can completely ignore the cultural factors that contribute to news like this, regardless of the girl’s background. It’s been said previously in this thread that this story doesn’t have a particularly “desi” angle to it, other than the fact that the victim and the murderer were desi. In fact, by comparing and contrasting different cultural backgrounds, maybe we can find an instance or two where a girl stands up for herself. Then maybe we can try to get other cultures to adopt that mentality. I hope that made sense…
It could be all of these things – I was only referring to the cop’s usual predilection to check, double check, and triple check what someone says, and not believe it simply because they say it. When this type of thing seeps into your personal life, there can be problems, and of course, if taken ‘beyond reasonable doubt’, can do so even in professional situations.